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Forester - Headgasket Repair & Engine Rebuild

24

Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I believe the "recall" is only that they extend the warranty to 100k IF you use the coolant conditioner (provided by a Subaru Dealer for free).

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    The owners manual for my 06 Forester says the same thing. Always add genuine Subaru Cooling system conditioner to the cooling system whenever the coolant is changed. Don't know the exact page number, just remember seeing it.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    I've got a head gasket leak on my 06 Forester with 43k on the clock. Driver's side of the engine, rear cylinder to be exact. Dealer service tech spotted it at the 30k service back in Feb. 2008 and told me to keep an eye on it. When I took it in the for the 30k, I mentioned to the service advisor that I had to frequently add coolant to the recovery tank since the day I bought it and could smell hot coolant on occasion. The tech pressure tested the cooling system and said it held pressure for 20 minutes (I spoke directly to the tech) but the underside of the head was damp. Fast forward to this past Saturday. I was changing the oil and had the lower tray off to make things easier. I slid up underneath and looked at both heads. Sure enough, there was a greasy spot on the underside of the head and it was a little greasy on the topside of the head. I looked in the coolant overflow tank and there was brown slime on the inside of it. Pulled the rad cap once it cooled down but didn't see any evidence of oil in the radiator. No coolant in the oil I drained out. I use Castrol Syntec by the way.

    Is this a head gasket fixing to go? They put the conditioner in it at the 30k service and I don't know if the greasy spot is oil or coolant. Thankfully it's still under warranty!
  • bdymentbdyment Member Posts: 573
    Why take a chance. As you stated it is under warranty--so get it fixed.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Taking it to the dealer Friday to get it done. I just find it hard to believe I'm having to replace headgaskets already. Is there anyone else with a similiar problem on the 06?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,794
    It can and does happen, though it is far rarer of an occurrence than it once was. I think you are the first person of whom I have heard with this problem on the 05 and later models within Subaru's line. Unless there is an issue with the car's block or head, I highly doubt it will be a problem that recurs before 200,000 miles, if at all. You might consider requesting an extended warranty on the head gaskets to guard against being slapped with a hefty bill in the event of another premature failure. If there is strong resistance to agreeing, perhaps Subaru has better reason for that lack of confidence than the rest of us. ;)

    If that is the case, make sure you let us know! :surprise:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    WHo do I ask for the ex warranty? I don't think the dealer has the authority to permit it unless they do it themselves. Maybe a call to SOA is in order...........
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,794
    Yes, it would have to come from SOA directly, though I am not sure whether it requires a direct call or could be mediated by a dealer. There's no harm in calling, though....
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    I called SOA right after I sent the reply to you. Rigid doesn't even begin to describe the experience. The rep I talked to said the new parts would be covered by a 1 yr, unlimited mileage warranty or the remainder of the factory warrant, whichever was longer. It would be nice if there was an SOA factory rep on here! I don't know if I trust the car now at all. I'm tempted to start looking for something else. Honda's starting to look pretty good now. During my time as a Honda tech, I can't recall anything as serious on any model until it had a lot of miles on it or was abused.

    As a tech though I can understand that cars break but I sure didn't expect HG replacement so soon. Thanks for listening to me fuss! I'll have the work done and then watch it like a hawk until the end of the warranty.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I was about to say that any replaced part from a dealer comes with a 1 year warranty or the remainder of the factory or extended factory warranty whichever is longer so you are already covered on it.

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    I'm concerned about life after warranty. The good thing is I didn't see any coolant in the oil I drained out during the oil change but then again I didn't expect to see any. Is there a lab I can send an oil sample to? I know there's places that test oil but I don't know any of them.

    Anybody ever have oil samples tested?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You should be fine because you are replacing the gasket before any major overheating, which would cause the heads to potentially warp, which is what would give you long term problems.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Sheesh... a little class 1 leak (dampness) which the dealer has agreed to repair but suddenly you're worried about being stranded and ready to start looking for another vehicle?!?!?

    Just my two cents but it seems you may be over reacting a wee little bit ;)

    -Frank
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    My job (government work) requires a solid, dependable car. Bossman would get a little irritated at me missing work frequently for car repairs so that's why I'm concerned. Head gasket today, what tomorrow? What got my attention is the oil in the coolant and the possibility of future engine trouble as a result. Maybe I am overreacting but it's not easy to find another job with the present state of the economy, especially in my salary range. I'm getting it fixed and will then go from there. I've still got 17000 miles and 2 years left on the warranty so if trouble develops, warranty will cover. If that's the case, when the warranty is gone, so's the car.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Guess you should move right next door to your work, because even a bicycle will break down!

    Seriously I think you are blowing the ramafications way out of proportion on this!

    -mike
    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • amiller1amiller1 Member Posts: 13
    I have been trying to decide on what car to buy, and am having a very hard time with it. My choice is between the Honda CRV and the new Subaru Forester. I drove both and really liked the Forester. Was almost going to make that decision until I read about the HG problem. My understanding was that the issue was in older Forester's models and was resolved by Subaru and now I am wondering if this was just a isolated incident or more to come. Please new Forester owner's what is your take??????????
  • chienchien Member Posts: 6
    I have a 1998 Forester and rebuilt the engine last year after the headgasket blew. I did that as a matter of economy and also (most importantly) because I really, really trusted my mechanic to get the best rebuilder and fight for me in case anything went wrong. If I had my druthers, I would have bought a new Honda Element. Honda has a better track record for long lasting-ness.

    I loved my Subaru and bought it with the understanding it would run to 200,000 with only minor problems. Needless to say, I was not happy I had to pay $5000 for a rebuild (of my own engine) after only 100K. Subaru America also totally ignored the faulty engine design (no bulletins), but replaced it with a redesign after only one year. I no longer trust Subaru as a company.

    If you are looking to keep a car for 20 years or 200,000 miles, I think a Honda is a better bet.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Be nice if I could but I'd be moving every week! Just think of the gas I'd save. You're probably right Mike. I'm just concerned about this and venting a little. I'd expected long life and was a little shocked at work this big so early. Heading to the dealer in the AM to get it done and hoping this is just an anomaly. Mom bought hers 4 months after I bought mine. She's got a few less miles on hers and no HG leaks so maybe mine was just built on a Monday.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah, as Juice said this is the first HG problem that has come up on the 09s and probably the first we've heard of on most of the newer gen cars.

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,794
    Many 2006 Foresters have been on the road for nearly four years at this point. If head gasket issues were still commonplace, we would be hearing far more about them than we have. This incidence here is clearly, though unfortunately for the owner, an isolated event. Such events will happen with all makes once in a while - machines can and do fail.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Well, I'm back from the dealer. They couldn't do the work b/c they didn't have all the necessary parts, specifically valve cover gaskets. It's been rescheduled for 12/16. Tech checked it and the left side is leaking oil and coolant. Right side is beginning to seep some oil now. He was telling me that he'd heard something about a few of the 06 Foresters possibly having some bad machining on one or both of the heads but hadn't seen anything official on it. They've also suggested that my using pure synthetic oil may have caused the leak which I don't buy. Tech told me Subaru doesn't recommend the use of synthetic oil in the engine until it has at least 75k on it. If this is the case, why does it not say "No synthetic oil" in the owner's manual?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,794
    The no synthetic story is BS. It is possible that there is an issue with the machining - especially if both are leaking. If it comes back that they have to machine the heads, I would press harder for that extended warranty as it was clearly a manufacturing defect. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Actually Subaru addressed the problem with the 1st generation Forester head gaskets by providing a leak-sealing coolant. And if you used their coolant, Subaru agreed to extend the warranty to 100k. Also, Subaru waited 5 years (not 1) before they changed the design (it took that long for the problem to manifest itself).

    But I do agree that you should be able to expect a Subaru to last longer than 100k before any major works needs to be done. On the otherhand, it is a 10 or 11 year old vehicle we're talking about...

    In any case, by all means, go buy a Honda, they NEVER fail ;)

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D

    Let's not forget the 2002 CR-Vs had that engine fire problem when the oil filter gasket would stick to the engine block. I recall at least 9 or so caused engine fires.

    I had a 98 Forester that went about 90k trouble-free miles, sold it, now we have a 2009 Forester that we trust completely.

    You have to see a pattern of failures, i.e. not just one or two, to conclude a certain problem is common.

    There's a guy in the RWTIV thread saying he has a Fit that goes through $1000 worth of brakes every 5000 miles, but even if it's true (doubtful) that doesn't mean the Fit has poor brakes.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    I wasn't buying the "No synthetic story" either. Porsche uses Mobil 1 in their stuff and I've never heard of any issues with the few owners I know. Then again when you plunk down 70k+ for a new 911 you expect perfection.

    I'll keep ya'll posted on this, especially if they have to send the heads out for milling. I really and truly have no desire to trade and have car payments again. Plus this thing just flat goes in the snow. Can't wait to test it with the new Blizzaks I installed Wednesday!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah the Synthetic is just a story the dealer is telling you. You do need to wait until 10,000 miles before using synthetic on Subaru engines though.

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Mike, I was reading an article in End Wrench magazine that talked about the use of synthetics. It clearly said synthetic was allowed provided it meets the same API service standard as regular oil, was the same viscosity as required by the owner's manual, and was changed according to the maintenance schedule. It strikes me as odd the dealer and tech would tell me one thing only to have their own technical publication say something completely different. No mention in the article about when to use synthetic though. I think it was the August 2008 edition I saw it in.

    I'll be heading to the dealer this coming Tuesday for the HG replacement. I'll keep you folks posted on whether or not they send the head(s) out for machining.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Car's out of the shop now with both HG replaced. Tech found no cracks in the heads or imperfections in the machining. Heads were within tolerance for straightness. I eyeballed the left side HG in the presence of the tech and the service manager. There was a rough spot on the gasket below the cutout for the oil return passage under the #3 cylinder. Both the tech and the SM spotted it too and said that was the likely cause. Long story short, bad gaskets. I hope this was an oddity otherwise they'll start seeing more 06's with seeping gaskets. The tech said I shouldn't have any further problems until 200k or longer.

    I'm going to check my mom's 06 and see if her car has any seepage. The dealer uses a synthetic blend in her car versus me using full synthetic. If hers is exhibiting any sign of leakage, I'll tell her to take it to the dealer and have it checked while it's under warranty.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    OK, checked Mom's 06 Forester for a head gasket leak. Car has 22k on the odo and has been serviced by the dealer who uses Valvoline Durablend 5-30. Driver's side head showed no signs of leakage unlike mine. Passenger side head is another story. Evidence of oil leakage beginning under the #4 cylinder but lessening as you look forward under the #2 cylinder. No oil or coolant present on the side of the head so it appears to be coming from the bottom of the head. I cleaned it off with some brake cleaner and used compressed air to dry it. I'll re-check it in 10k or so and if the oil comes back, I'll know it's seeping. I'd like to look at the date of manufacture to see if my 06 and her 06 were built in the same time period but I don't know where to find it. Anybody have any ideas?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't wait 10k, check at each oil change, or every 3750 miles.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Not a bad idea, will do. Found out my car was built 12/05 and hers was built 1/06. Coincidence they both have a bad gasket?

    Called the dealer that did mine and told them about it. The service advisor said SOA had them return the HGs to SOA headquarters for analysis. Hopefully they'll figure it out. I'm wanting the same tech to do my mom's car since I know he does quality work, if it turns out the gaskets actually do need to be replaced.

    Keep ya'll posted!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm glad to see SoA wants to analyze the HGs, see what happened to them.
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    You're not the only one. I hope they can figure it out and I wouldn't be surprised to see a TSB or something come out to let dealers know to keep an eye on the 06's, just in case.

    Needless to say, my faith in Subie has been restored!
  • aathertonaatherton Member Posts: 617
    Send a used oil sample to Blackstone for analysis - the standard test includes coolant:
    http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

    I have monitored the Forester Forum for the past year and have not heard of a head gasket leak on the 2006-on Forester.
    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    I took a sample after I got home the evening before I took the car to the dealer and sent it to Blackstone. They haven't gotten it yet and it's been almost a month now. I should've put it in a box but you know hindsight's always 20/20. I've been in contact with them and they know about it. They're just waiting for it to show up.

    As I posted earlier, Mom's 06 showed signs of oil seepage on the passenger side head gasket. I cleaned it and will recheck it every opportunity I have. If it comes back, then it's off to the dealer with her car.
  • goldengalgoldengal Member Posts: 5
    Well, at 70,000 miles my Subie has the dreaded HG leaks. Indie mechanic, who I trust, wants over 2 grand for total repair. Or should I fight the battle with SOA and have the dealership do a half [non-permissible content removed] job. I need new tires also. Total cost could be around 3,000 and the trade in is around 6,000. I love my Forester and would consider the 09. What would you do? I know I am not alone with this problem-to sell or fix. I need a safe reliable AWD auto for driving in Northern Michigan. Thanks ahead for advice. :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    See what the dealer offers as a trade. They will wholesale it, question is will it be more than $3000 (your net profit sale minus cost to fix). If so just trade-up, and avoid the hassle.
  • devarshidevarshi Member Posts: 7
    My Subaru 2001 Forester (130000 Miles) makes a clicking sound when it goes from 2nd to 3rd. There is a little jerk only when it goes to third. It an automatic but I know the gear num as its quite obvious. Any clue as to whats going on?

    Thanks
  • erikdaderikdad Member Posts: 1
    Goldengal, sounds like you've had the same problem I’ve experienced, same model and similar mileage.
    I have a 2003 Forrester 2.5 XS with 73K on it. Although it’s a 2003, I bought it in May 2002, it was one of the first new ’03 models that hit the showrooms. I’ve maintained it regularly and haven’t had any major problems with it. Until this month. I had leaky head gaskets.
    Contacted Subaru. After some delays in getting an answer, in the end, I was told that my Subaru is “not part of the campaign” that Subaru apparently has to help customers who have had the head gasket problem. The “campaign” is for 2000-02 vehicles only.
    Not the ideal outcome from my perspective. And it does seem like the issue might not have been solved with the 2002 models. I understand any car can have a leaky head gasket, but 73K seems a little early, no?
  • gherman131313gherman131313 Member Posts: 17
    Call Subaru's 800 number, I had HG problem with my 2003 forester (i also bought in May 2002!). They paid for half the cost.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    800-SUBARU3.
  • mariann2mariann2 Member Posts: 1
    Similar problems to what I've been reading here, but some differences. Please read and let me know what you think.

    127,000 miles...no major problems.
    When accelerating doesn't seem to get gas and won't go and proceeds very bumpy, then surges forward. Happens sporadically. Sometimes very rough idle ( car is almost jumping ). Pumping on the gas seems to keep it going.
    Check engine light comes on sometimes. It's reading o2 sensor, but my mechanic says it's definitely not that. Mechanic not sure...thinks it's maybe the fuel pump. ig expense for a maybe solution. Any ideas? Many thanks for any assistance.

    My mechanic has changed the oil filter, cleaned up various thingies and since the
  • chienchien Member Posts: 6
    I recently had a flashing Check Engine light and no power on acceleration. Flashing CEL is serious -- not to be ignored. A month or two before, I had a steady CEL (not as bad as flashing but still needs to be scanned) and after the diagnostic, the sensor was reset, and CEL went away. After the second steady CEL and more extensive diagnostic, my mechnic replaced the ignition coil as it was bad. I was running on only 3 cylinders. Car runs like new! Also, check to see if one or more of your ignition wires is corroded. Sporadic connection could account for sporadic performance.

    Good answer here at WikiAnswers:
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Car_hesitates_check_engine_light_stays_steady_or_blink- s_when_giving_gas_had_a_tune_up_done_and_replaced_bad_gas_any_other_ideas_of_wha- t_this_could_be_what's_a_v-tech_sensor
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Spark or fuel....

    First change the fuel filter, it's the cheapest.

    Then the spark plugs, then spark plug wires. At 127k you should be on your 3rd set of wires.

    Beyond that, the ignition coil or fuel pump, let's hope it's not the latter. Everything else is a cheap fix.
  • sd70sd70 Member Posts: 9
    I'm a little late but...

    My '01 Forester was doing the same exact thing a couple of months ago. They replaced the O2 sensor and she was running like a charm again. hope this helps.

    BTW.... I needed head gaskets a few years ago. I noticed my fan was running more often than it should be, but the car was not overheating. I was told I needed new gaskets, but it was covered under warranty. Seems to be great ever since. I was very happy to see Subaru step up to solve this issue.
  • krispychickkrispychick Member Posts: 3
    Has any had a head gasket problem with the 2005 model? I brought my car in for a recall and was told I need new head gaskets, tires and brakes. My tires were two year old - annoying to say the least. But the head gasket issue is obviously a design flaw in subaru's. I was wondering if Subaru would give me half toward the HD repair. Anyone have any experience with that?

    thanks!
  • erikwierikwi Member Posts: 71
    Had my 2006 done under warranty at 43k and now my mom's getting the head gaskets replaced on her car at 30k under warranty. Do you have any warranty left?
  • goldengalgoldengal Member Posts: 5
    I did not realize that the HG problem extended past the 03 models. We replaced our HG's on our 03 Forester and it runs great. If you don't have any warranty left -get in touch with Subaru of America and get them to at least pay half of the cost. Make sure it is your HG by reading up on the signs and symptoms in the forums. As for tires make sure they do an alignment and check tire warranty as well. We took our subie in to a private mechanic to confirm what the dealership had told us before giving the car up to the stealership for repair. SoA will only help with cost if you have it repaired at dealership. Best of luck.
  • krispychickkrispychick Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for your reply. Wow - 2006 at at 43K! Unfortunately I don't have any warranty left - I just hit 75,000 miles and I am sure that is over the warranty.
    Any suggestions? Do you think it would help to call the corporate office?
  • krispychickkrispychick Member Posts: 3
    Yes, apparently this is a design issue - a poor design -so it does extend beyond the 03 models. I will try getting in touch with Subaru of Ameica. I originally put the car in the dealer for a recall issue and they were the ones who told me I needed head gaskets. Do you think I should still have it confirmed somewhere else? I don't have any signs of a problem.
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