Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Smart Fortwo
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Hope this helps....
Just my observations however.
I don't even like riding around the block in one of those tiny little cars much less take one on the freeway.
We just took in our third Smart for a person who bought it and quickly decided they didn't like it. The last one had less than 200 miles on it.
Bet you can't get on a motorcycle either. And you'd be in a world of hurt in India traffic.
To each his or her own.
I think most people who trade them in quickly cannot get used to that herky-jerky transmission. M-B is going to have to do some re-engineering quickly. Not only will Scion soon have a competing model with a normal transmission and room in the back for a small adult and child, but some of the larger A and B segment cars on the way will have as good or better mpg as the current smart.
I would rather walk.
As far as that crash cage, I can't imagine surviving any kind of a major collision in one of those.
Yep, to each his own...
Oh, and the crash cage has been shown to be very effective for such a small vehicle. Injury and death stats bear this out.
(apologies to Janis Joplin)
:P
I hope it sells quickly because it attracts a lot of curious joyriders who have no intension of buying it. They only want to "see what's it's like".
They usually return and get out laughing and shaking their heads.
Just now I watched a woman jerk and lurch up the street in front of our store.
I just hope I never have to ride in it!
I've cleaned up the mess. Let's not start it up again.
It is in the worst 10% of all cars for safety.
http://www.informedforlife.org/demos/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/1MasterSCOREr.pdf
Buyer/driver beware!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"This website is sponsored by Informed For Life, Inc., an independent, Connecticut nonprofit organization, created solely for the purpose of helping individuals select a vehicle that may save their lives in an accident. This information is offered as a public service, not to derive profits. Informed For Life does not accept donations or funding from any individual or organization.
Informed For Life, Inc. was founded in February, 2003 by Michael D. Dulberger, of Avon, Connecticut. Mr. Dulberger is a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, and the Association for the Advancement for Automotive Medicine."
Do you have a better set of criteria for evaluation of the efficacy of this site??!
No, I thought not.. You would rather criticize it blindly and emotionally without any rational basis.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/The-5-Most-Dangerous-Cars-for-T- eens/
It's cheap and relatively economical, but is it worth your life??!
http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx
It's better to go to the source and look at the real data. Now, they haven't released the 2009-2010 data yet, and should do it sometime this fall, but the results are clear that there are two variables at work here. First, that some cars are safer than others, and the Smart gets a fair score in actual testing. But compared to the entire U.S. passenger fleet/vehicles being driven, it's at a disadvantage due to mass as is everything smaller than a SUV.
The trick here is to look at only the last three columns - what the industry is paying in injury and medical claims in actual crashes. This gives us the best possible data that we have (so far) on real-world performance in crashes.
And the results are sobering.
http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?y=2006-2008&cls=2&sz=2&sort- - - - =medPay
http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?y=2006-2008&cls=8&sz=2&sort- - - - =medPay
There are a lot of SUVs out there and it skews the results so much that a perfectly fine car like the Civic gets an adjusted 126 score.
The raw data that is filtering out so far(I can't find it on the IIHS site but it's available if you search) shows that the Smart is slightly better than the average of 100 in terms of a raw score(80-90 is what I've heard so far(average is 100)). But that's going to change when it's compared with 2009 vehicles overall.
It's built too small compared to the typical SUV, and you have about a 30% chance of any accident these days involving a SUV or large truck. ie - you're fine the other 70% of the time and dead the other 30% because the car can't cope with the situation.(same as say, having a commercial vehicle like a dump truck run into your SUV - it's just not going to be able to deal with it and you lose.
Dump trucks and Semis and the like are easy to avoid, though, as they are highly visible. But can you avoid every SUV, large truck, and commercial vehicle if you are driving a Smart? Not really. Eventually your luck will run out. Mercedes makes the best cars in terms of engineering and safety, but 1600lbs can only withstand so much force.
P.S. I love the Smart car and worked myself to get it brought over to the U.S. nearly a decade ago. It's a great vehicle in many ways, but the sad fact is that large cars and SUVs keep getting more numerous and heavier all the time, despite fuel prices rising. What was great ten years ago in Europe and might have worked in the U.S., then, is now hopelessly small and lightweight today.(The average U.S. vehicle weight is approaching 3600lbs!)
This really isn't surprising, considering that the same thing happened in the 60s and 70s - Americans love large cars and only suffered through them because of fuel prices and emissions. But now that most 3500-3600lb cars can get 25mpg or better and have 200+HP, it's a repeat of 40 years ago when big muscle cars with huge power are the rage.
As a yardstick a 1980 Volvo 240 clocked in at just aver 2600lbs. The average has risen 1000lbs in 30 years.
P.P.S.
So what to do about it? I'd look at cars like the smaller VW TDIs and the upcoming Fiat 500. They get about the same MPG as the Smart and are just large enough to be minimally safe versus the rest of the vehicles on the road.
The problem is that the Smart is just too small! It doesn't stand a chance in a significant accident with a larger vehicle because you simply can't defeat the laws of physics.
There are much better small cars out there for the price.
It's just not safe to run around in anything less than about 3000lbs, as sad as that is to think about. Maybe 2500lbs as a minimum if you are fine with takeing a reasonable chance with your safety and it's a safe car with side airbags and the rest(a Civic is 2600lbs, btw).
BTW, check out the data on the Yaris on that IIHS site. Ouch. 4 or 5 stars into a barrier isn't going to cut it in the real world if the vehicle that hits you is more than twice the weight of yours.
Are there better small cars out there for the price? Maybe, maybe not. I really love the Smart, to be honest. But there's also a reason though I love motorcycles enough to have wanted to race them when I was younger(for real) - I don't own one now that I live in Los Angeles. I simply don't want to die in an accident in the next 6-12 months.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Life is a risk but I will continue to live it the best way I can and make a difference on this planet. One of the differences I would like to make is to use less fuel and save it for my children. Another is to demonstrate that there is a market for new styles and technologies in vehicles. Look, SMART cars are not for everyone BUT they are practical, fun, and eye-catching. I would not want to drive from VA to CA in mine nor would I take it to Home Depot to shop for plywood. I do drive it when I need to run errands, head up to Dallas for a few days, drive in the city, or go grocery shopping.
On a side note, I bought a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid and was told by many that it was the worse decision I could ever make. So much technology that it was bound to be expensive. Several emergency response folks I knew told me it was very dangerous, like driving a bomb with all of those batteries. I am still alive, get 50 MPH, and have spent less than $500 in maintenance. I expect to have my SMART for 20 years and live long enough to watch other car manufacturers “catch up” or else go bankrupt sticking with bulky gas-guzzling vehicles.
Simply physics will tell you how quickly g-forces build when there's a large difference in weight. In the above scenario, a 3500lb car hits a 5000lb SUV. Even the 1600lb Smart car hitting a normal 3500lb car is going to suffer far worse damage. (~43% more mass for one and ~119% more mass for the Smart car example.) 3500lbs or so is the U.S. average car weight now, so that's a normal consideration in driving. It's not even calculating the horrendous example of a Smart vs a SUV.(~213% more mass)
While I understand what you're saying about everything being risky, I also know that the average person in the U.S. has some sort of accident in their vehicle every 5-7 years. (be it a major crash or a minor incident clipping a pole while parking). It's also why as I stated, I don't have a motorcycle where I live. I also cross streets as quickly as reasonably possible. And I own a 4200lb vehicle for the same reason. It's big, safe, and has a higher view that allows me to see over the traffic in front of me. It also scares yuppies in their Plasti-cedes' since it's incredibly old and worn looking (got to love old 4x4s
Its not an emotional issue that the car gets the best mileage of any non-hybrid car and that it fits the needs of many people as a second commuter type car.
Also it is a fact that most accidents are either single car accidents and/or low speed ones.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But it simply was not designed with America's lust for muscle cars and giant SUVs in mind. The average vehicle in Europe is nearly a thousand pounds lighter. So it does acceptably well over there(similar to, say, a Civic versus other cars on the road here in the U.S.).
What Mercedes needs to do is ditch the Smart and instead bring over the A or B class as a cheaper alternative. With a TDI engine, it would easily match the Smart in economy and be large enough to be safe against most of the other vehicles on the road.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_A-Class
Cute, small, and if you convert the MPG figures for the TDI engine from U.K. to U.S. Gallons, the 2.0L larger engine gets a combined MPG figure of 43.5.
You can get it in most of the rest of the world, but not in the U.S. I'd so rather have this than a Smart.
According to a 2007 USDOT study, there were approximately 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles (car or truck, used for passengers, excluding buses and trains) on the road
Now I KNOW those aren't the same years, but you might agree that the number of vehicles in 2007 is going to be pretty darn close to the number in 2008, yes?
So to get fatailties per 100,000 vehicles we'll take the fatalities divided by the number of vehicles (deaths per vehicle) times 100,000
26,689 / 254,400,000 = .000104909 times 100,000 = 10.49 deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles
3 in 30,000 smarts is 10 per 100,000, but that 's assuming that the "three you can find" are the only ones. Even if it's only ONE more, that rate is up to 13.33.
Not trying to "prove" anything one way or the other here, but 30,000 smarts compared to 250 million plus vehicles seems too small a sample to say anything with certainty. The rate for the smart seems to be on the order of the overall rate, but I'd wager if we were talking about 10 times as many smarts on US roads, we'd be looking at significantly more than 30 fatalities because, like it or not, safety IS related to size.
Granted 30K is a very small sample size compared to 254,400K and the stats could be off due to the small size. And while adding one more death would make it 13.333 per 100,000 miles one less would make it 6.667 per 100,000.
I would like to see where these 30K Smarts are driven. While I have seen a couple on the highway, most I have seen have been on surface roads in high density urban settings. So if more miles are driven in urban settings then the cars would spend a lot more times at slower speed. If this is true then expanding the number of Smarts on the road by 10 times might very well produce much less than 30 fatalities. Remember bigger does not always mean safer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The idea that people are going to have a serious, life-threatening accident every 5-7 years is ludicrous. My own sample of one says I have been driving an average of 20K miles a year for 45 years. I have had a couple fender benders in that time, and they were in vehicles much less safe than the smart (engineered and built before 1980). I can also look among my friends. I can look at all my relatives. An accident every 5-7 years has not been the average for them either.
Amongst hundreds of friends, acquaintances, etc. I have known over the last 50 years, there have been a few fatalities, a handful. Among those who died, were people riding in a full-size pickup, a full-size station wagon, and a large sedan. My sister was once in a head-on collision with a tree driving a subcompact without airbags. She was cut and bruised, but otherwise fine. The car was totaled, since the front bumper was only an inch or two from the windshield after impact.
So wager all you want. People will drive big trucks, smarts, motorcycles, scooters, bicycles, school buses, etc. I have no idea how so many of us survived years ago in cars that did not handle well, had poor brakes and tires, had no ability to stay intact upon impact, did not offer airbags nor sometimes even seat belts. I'd much rather ride or drive a smart than my dad's 1964 Fairlane back in the day.
If you don't prefer a smart safety-wise over a death trap from the 60s, 70s and 80s, so be it. I am not going to condemn you or call you out. But I am still going to ask of those who hate the smart, what are you doing on this forum? Nobody came here to be lectured about how, for example, bicycles do not offer much protection in an impact. Most of us already know that. But knowing that, I am not going to give up riding my bike.
I've been driving small cars (Nissan Sentras, Altimas, and a Versa) since 1979. And while I feel they they've been safe cars, I know that if I HAD to be in an unexpected "incident", bigger/heavier would be safer. That doesn't make me a Sentra/Versa hater anymore than recognizing the safety limitations of the smart makes me a smart hater.
Let me put it this way... would I feel safe driving a smart? I think I would, because *I* am the most important chuck of safety equipment I have in every car I've ever driven. Would I take the smart onto the DC Beltway or an LA freeway on a regular basis? I don't honestly know, but I DO know that I wouldn't do it thinking that I'm on a level playing field in the event something did happen.
Wow. Reading skills rate a D-.
I said 5-7 years you have an accident. I did specifically also mention that covers everything from a serious incident to a minor incident like clipping a pole while parking. Maybe you get lucky and only bash your bumper parking or hit a small animal or something, and maybe you end up off the road in a ditch or get hit in the side by a runaway(happened in my town to someone last year).
Anyway, go ahead, assert what you want. You are after all the host. :P But do you really know anything about data? When people are polled (with a small margin of error), do you really think those pollsters talk to (or need to talk to) more than 30,000 people just to get a representative sample of Americans?? Regardless of what you think, they don't. Do a little research on how research is done and then tell me 30,000 is a VERY small sample.
And yes, one more fatality would change the outcome, JUST LIKE ONE LESS WOULD. Unless you can point out how you are a better and more knowledgeable statistician than most (can you?), I don't see how you can say smart-driven miles have no statistical significance. You have thrown the smart stats sample into a much larger population, and then declared the smart sample too small based on being swamped by that vehicle universe. So I guess we are to assume that the average outcome for smart drivers is but a fluke. Or luck whatever that is. A run of heads when a tail was expected.
And now for an anecdote which doesn't prove anything (but since others here also seem comfortable speculating all sorts of things based on a few variables...): In 1977, I was rear ended by a full size Mercedes while driving my 1976 VW Rabbit. I was pushed halfway through the intersection, but in the end, there were a couple of paint scratches on the Rabbit rear bumper (the car sort of skipped forward), but the Mercedes required a tow truck. What does it prove? Not much, other than outcomes can sometimes be different than one imagines.
I think it is sad that this thread always degenerates into "we have to warn these poor SOBS who don't seem to realize they will be driving a really small car amongst many larger vehicles." Sort of reminds me of the intense battles to keep people from legally buying unpasteurized milk. We let people smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol and cover our bases by putting on warning labels about potential health consequences. Would you all go away if smart would agree to put a warning label on their cars stating that, since the car is small, passengers may be at greater risk of injury if an accident occurs? :surprise:
Why I linked to the IIHS site for insurance claims is that deaths isn't the only factor. Being really messed up and injured badly is important as well. But we won't see the data until this fall, unfortunately. I'ts not going to look pretty because no matter how you engineer a vehicle, 1600lbs of anything isn't going to withstand a 5-6000lb solid framed vehicle hitting it.
Yesterday I took my son to the doctor and counted vehicles. The row I was in looked like this:
SUV, large car., car, minivan, SUV, minivan, SUV SUV SUV, minivan, SUV, large car, car, station wagon, SUV SUV SUV.
Seriously. Finding anything under 3000 lbs - I don't think there was one vehicle in the entire parking lot - over 100 cars - that weighed less than that. And that's unfortunately the norm lately. Big, heavy, and acres of steel for crumple cones.
I really do wish that the Smart was a bit bigger and better. 1ft longer, a few inches wider, and reinforced more heavily wouldn't destroy it's fun or image. And neither would things like a real manual transmission or a TDI engine. They didn't destroy the Mini with the re-do - but it's a lot safer and more practical than the original.
Maybe come in at 2000lbs and get 50-60mpg highway. That would be more reasonable, IMO. With a manual transmission, I might even buy one myself.
The problem with the statistics is not the 30K Smart cars but the low number of deaths (3 in this case). With that a swing of just 1 changes the figures greatly. Most statisticians acknowledge that.
In 1977, I was rear ended by a full size Mercedes while driving my 1976 VW Rabbit......
Many people don't realize that mass isn't the only equation to what happens in an accident. Two winters ago there was an issue with an Accord hitting a rather large state owned snowplow on the tollway. The Accord actually knocked the snowplow into the ditch and the only one that went to the hospital was the snowplow driver.
While not the norm but it does show that larger is not always safer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wish they hadn't lengthened the smart in the 2008 redesign. As it is now, it is a couple inches too long to park perpendicular to the curb.
A bit longer and a bit wider, it just might meet basic safety requirements. As it stands now, it is doubtful whether it would allow its occupants to survive even a minimal crash.
No, I am not saying that. You are saying that. I said I wished it was still the size of the original design. But that isn't going to happen, so don't get scared. Meanwhile, I still think that I'd rather run around in a smart than on any of the mopeds I see everywhere in the city where I work.
The smart is about as safe as can be given how tiny it is, and it is safer than one would assume, given its diminutive size. Why make it bigger or heavier? There are TONS of choices out there to fill that bill already. But if you want a city car that is as small as possible, then a Versa or Fiesta is not a real substitute. Why is that so hard to fathom? And, YES, I know it is small and light and wouldn't be the greatest thing to be in if one collides head on with something at 60 mph, so please don't start.