Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem

doubleusn · January 2009

Thanks for the info.

For clarity, do we know...

1) When was the last year this frame model was used in tacomas? (1995 - 2004?)
2) Are the 2005 and newer ones using a different design?
3) Is Dana the supplier of the original bad frames, or just the replacement ones?
4) Who makes the frames for 2005 - 2009 model run?

Thanks
-wsn

oldbones · January 2009

I too have a 2001 Tacoma with a rusted frame. The dealer now has my truck and gave another vehicle for my use while the frame is replaced. I don't understand all of the noise people are making about the problem. We all bought Tacomas because of their quality and Toyota's reputation. I read where many of the trucks have several hundred thousands of miles and the only problem has been the frame. Toyota has stepped up to the plate and agrees to repair them. It is an inconvenience but I am sure Toyota will do a quality repair just as they do in manufacturing the vehicle in the first place. Just imagine if there were a similar problem with a truck made by an American manufacturer. We would all be getting zip! So let's give Toyota a chance to repair these trucks. It is understandable that people would want a new truck for free but it is not realistic. There are tens of thousands of trucks that will require repair at a tremendous cost to Toyota. Have patience --- life is too short!

doubleusn · January 2009

I speak for only myself, but Toyota's lack of communication in this matter is what bothers me the most. I asked for a reasonable time frame that the work would be done in, what parts would be replaced, and the going forward warranty. I asked for it in writing, multiple times. Toyota Corp said "no". I think my requests were very fair given the work being undertaken. Toyota was also very arrogant when I made these inquiry's about 'My' truck.

Again everybody has their own things that work for them, but Toyota's lack of communication (still no letter yet) and arogant attitude is what upset me.

As far as the loaner goes. Some people want 'their' trucks. This is not a 3 day deal, it will be many months. Also Toyota offers no insurance on their rental, that burden is also on you.

Toyota has also known about this for some time but has chosen 'saving face' in the media over alerting people asap as they are maybe riding around with loved ones in a potentialy structually unsafe (in crash) truck.

Again to each their own, but while it may work for you, the outlined points above, in my opinion, justify people's anger.

-wsn

pataco01 · January 2009

My thoughts exactly. I've been driving around in my truck with my 15mo. old daughter everyday! Believe me, I appreciate the loaner and my dealership has been pretty good but they still don't know anything yet either. Toyota corp. has been the worst though. They won't tell me anything and expect me to thank them when this was their (or whoever they sub'd the frames out to) fault. And I still haven't gotten a letter.

mcalautt · January 2009

ya thats exactly the attittude they have..
that is an excellent way to put it..
They act as if they are doing us a favor. My rep (kevin) kept saying this was a good will decision for me because I have an 01 but got into the buyback program.
He kept saying it as if to shut me up because I was lucky to be getting a check instead of the frame. He kept saying how the "program" my truck fell into does not offer a buyback only a frame replacement. So I asked, Kevo, what would your answer be if we were having this conversation 6 months ago when there wasnt a "program" for the 01-04 trucks?. I got no answer.

theiglu · January 2009

I had my truck taken away on Nov 5th.

I'm scheduled to get my check for my 2001 TRD in less than two hours.

jokerman17 · January 2009

I would like to say this forum was very helpful for me and this is obviously a huge problem for toyota.. By reading this forum and gathering information it was at least fun to get service writers back peddling. What a friggin nightmare I have a 01 tacoma and to me toytota is nuts to put a new frame in vehicles worth about six grand.My truck was rear ended and needs 2 grand worth of work and I told the body shop to hold off,since I can drive it and wait to see what my frame status is..He told me the frame was changed in 01 and that explains the 98 to 2000 buy back they can't get them as someone posted. The retail price of a frame I was told is 3 grand,to me it would make sense for toyota to make some kind of offer to owners,if they would buy a new truck. I am also waiting for my letter and a call back from the dealer for a appointment.The frame warranty I believe he said is for fifteen years and the 01 to 04 trucks have just been added as a potential problem,last month I was told the 01 is fine. .Oh and that this is not a recall I guess just a huge blunder.Living in new jersey I feel it's not a question of if the frame will rust out it's just how soon. No wonder the beds are now made of plastic they probably would make the whole truck out of plastic if they could.

mcalautt · January 2009

your 01 will rot out if its in or around new england.
it isnt a recall, im not sure how toyota got away with this not being a recall but they did. Maybe because they call it a "buy back" program and they "extend" the warranty on the frames.
In my experience, it didnt seem to matter if you were going to buy another toyota.
I had initially said that to the boston rep that came to look at my truck at the dealership and then when ISG called me with an offer I declined because I thought I should have got a little more. My case manager called me and basically said I was lucky and that this was a "good will" buy back.
As I mentioned before, he claims " we are not in the business of buying trucks back".
so that made my decision simple.
I wont ever give my money to toyota again.
As I said before, they act as if we are lucky they are even doing anything.
Also, think of this... Toyota had a 3rd party company manufacture these frames so you can only assume toyota is going after them as well so toyota will be compensated in some way so its not totally out of pocket for them.

tcincy · January 2009

You were right to hold off on the body shop work. If it's that bad they will cover it, if it's not covered now it will be. the "frame being changed in 01" sounds kind of fishy. so if it was, it shows the old one was bad and Toyota should replace it too.

My case:

My Tacoma was a 1999. I took it in for inspection in August, 2008.
I was told the program covered 1995-2000 Tacomas.
My Truck had enough rust that made it eligible for buyback.
But I didn't leave it at the dealer -even though one service guy tried to get me leave it - telling me it was a "safety" issue and it was dangerous. I told him I drove it to the dealer, I'm taking it and driving it while I wheel and deal with the Tacoma ISG Rep. They don't have any choice - it's your truck. You have the right to take it.
I FIRST drove it as much as I wanted;.

AFTER I settled with the Tacoma ISG rep, and he paid me, THEN I took Tacoma's loaner for 30 days. That way I took my time looking for a new vehicle.

How the extended 15 year warranty works:

My brother took in his 1998 at the same time I took in my 1999.
It didn't qualify for buyback - not enough rust. However, Dealer said Tacoma will extend, immediately the entire frame warranty for ALL TACOMAS, for
15 (fifteen) years from the date it was purchased new.
He bought his in December 98, so he can breing it back, once a year, until December 2013 and have it checked for rust, and if enough rust shows up on it, that is eligible for buyback. I don't see how they can't extend the warranty for 2001's, 2002's 2003's etc. if rust remains a problem.
I would sit and wait and drive it sparingly and try to drive something else old until it's resolved. I wouldn't spend $ 2,000 or $ 3,000 on it until I found out about Toyota covering it ean,ezn1o

jokerman17 · January 2009

Like I said you and others writing in this forum have been very informative and I thank you again. I really think the economy is playing into this problem maybe if toyota didn't decide to be kings of the big truck market and get into NASCAR at the worst time possible,they would have some cake for us. I really do believe at some point down the road they will figure this is nuts and make offers to us. I also think they have to look at this case by case. My 01 bare bones 4wd for example versus a loaded 04 has to come into play What about the bare bone 2wd trucks that are eight years old it just does not make sense. I am no mechanic but I know you built the vehicle around the frame and when most older vehicles get frame damage they are totaled. Could you imagine what this job would cost out of warranty at a buck twenty an hour and with a parts markup? They wanted 500 to install shocks I purchased. A point nobody is bringing up is how this effects the mechanics at toyota and the dealerships. They have to tie up A mechanics to do warranty frame work. Warranty work is always a loser for them as we speak toyota probably can't even put a exact time on this job. Along with those rusted frames are a lot of rusted bolts.They will have a lot of happy workers, lets see warranty frame job or cash brake job or tuneup. In my earlier post it was reputable body shop that told me they changed the frame in 01 ,the shop looked it up on the computer. I was all ready to get it fixed and then I came across this forum and told him to postpone the job till I get a answer. The sad part of this whole thing is the trucks on the outside look great. Back in the day the tacomas had all the rust problems with the wheel wells and beds. They fixed that and this time you can't notice the problem. A lot of people will get screwed,who buy them used and don't know of the problem. I cannot do that and will go down with the ship.Either they show me the money or it will be a old truck with a new frame. Maybe they made these frames out of the old rusted out trucks?

Sambone5769 · January 2009

Well, Kevin is polite as a corporate drone can be. I know it's not his and Ms. Bishop's fault, so I do my best not to lose my mind when I deal with them, even though that's essentially what Toyota pays them for; to be the first in line for the firing squad as it were.
But, like you guys, I have no idea when the "kits" will be available, what my "kit" will include as all models will have different "kits" according to Kevin. When the dealership could expect my "kit" to arrive, or how long it would take once my "kit" got there. Sounds like they're building a model truck or something.

He did mention leaf springs, but that's it, and even those he didn't seem too sure about.
I mentioned the absence of any formal acknowledgment from Toyota corp that there are frame rot issues with their Tacomas. The way I see it, regardless of how they're treating us who are aware we have a problem, the fact that they seem to be in no rush to let others know they might be putting themselves and their families in harm's way is frightening and disgusting. Is the corporate logic so far advanced that they will refuse to issue a recall and cross their fingers that noone is killed in a Tacoma due to frame failure while this little mess is being swept under the carpet by keeping us quiet by replacing our frames? It's downright scary when you think of it like that.
Kevin said that a formal letter was being sent out, but in "waves", that these mass mailings "take a lot of time" to get off the ground. Chalk that one up to bull, I've seen a backwoods secretary priority mail a thousand envelopes in under an hour. Don't tell me a corporate monster like Toyota can't do the same. Kevin told me even though I had opened a case that I would receive a letter. He even says it could take months, and that I could very well have my truck back from the dealership by the time the letter arrives. Gee, that makes me feel a lot better, and all the parents driving around with their kids in the back should do so in blissful ignorance and as long as it doesn't affect corporate earnings, right?!
All right ... off that soapbox for the moment and on to another one: A complete dissatisfaction with the NEW Toyotas.
I love my 2001. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin' ... until a serious frame issue pops up, but that's beside the point. I've been tooling around in a dealership provided 2008 Highlander until last Thursday. Kind of like a luxurious schoolbus ... handles about the same too. Anyway, the windshield wiper fluid light comes on. Pulled over, got a gallon and poured it in the resevoir ... and kept pouring. Turns out the resevoir is busted and fluid is pouring all over the concrete. Huh? Call the dealership and trade the Highlander rental for a 2009 Tacoma. By the time I get home, there is a message on my answering machine demanding a call back right away. The rental agent says the service department has looked at the Highlander and determined that I must have struck something as the interior bumper plates are pushed back and that's what crushed the windshield wiper fluid resevoir. Huh?! She said that the techs have seen it a lot this winter and I must have struck a snow bank. According to the techs the snowbanks are especially hard this year. WTF?! Long story short, I owe them $395 for damages incurred while in my possession, even though I think I'd remember if I smacked a snowbank, don't you? And that leads me to my initial rant about the new Toyotas. Are they that fragile that I might have crushed the front bumper supports and wiper fluid tank by simply parking the car into a snow bank? If I Dukes of Hazzarded it into the parking lot, I might understand, but the idea that a brand new vehicle can be messed right up with something I could probably inflict with my fist is really pathetic. So now I got this 2009 Tacoma and I'm scared to death to drive it in fear that it might suddenly incur some random damage I'll be held responsible for.
Uggghhh. Fixing up that old Ford truck out behind the garage is starting to look more and more inviting. Toyota has pissed in my shoes too many times in the last month.

jokerman17 · February 2009

You got to lose the loaner and get something off a lease or off their used car lot.Four hundred for a plastic container and bumper brackets,this is what I been droning about all along. The cost on this frame job is insane for a outside body shop to just order a frame retail price is 3gs. Toyota isn't making and shipping these parts for nothing and like others have written you know they will make us eat something. You can hit 2 grand out of pocket in the blink of an eye. I really believe what happened is toyota thought the frame problem was just in the trucks before 01. They figured since they can' get them anymore and your dealing with ten year old vehicles, the answer was obvious a buyout. Than they realized recently 01 to 04 different frame,same problem, OH [non-permissible content removed]! I personally was told last month my 01 does not have this problem,made at a different plant yada yada yada. Maybe they will hit the trifecta and find 05 to the present is wrong,who can say. Toyota may have forgot how to rustproof frames but they are not totally stupid and know they have to think this out for the best possible solution.I think the truck value will come into play and if you are the original owner and who yells the loudest.Has anybody been to a dealership that has done this job? I'm still trying to just get mine on the lift still no call back for an appointment. Looking forward to "the letter" January has come and gone,still nothing by pony express. Really looking forward to phase two of this maybe tomorrow maybe next year. One thing for sure if they go thru with this your talking about a long line at the deli.

doubleusn · February 2009

Hi

This is the other reason I worked a trade-in deal with my dealer.

Having their rental is a liability, and can become an extra expense in this already nightmare-ish problem.

If you can and it's in the cards for you, get your dealer to take yours in trade @ kbb trade value (as if the frame problem did not exist) and then take it to buy an aggressively discounted new car from them.

You do sadly get a new payment, but you also get a new car, and the nightmare goes away. They also get a 'sale' at a time when they need them and Corp will pay for frame work (not the dealer).

It worked for me. Didn't want a payment, but more so didn't want the nightmare to last another 6 months... or longer.

jokerman17 · February 2009

I am glad it worked out for you. What I would like to know did the dealer give you any kind of time frame if they were to fix it and were you allowed to leave with your truck. I am totally confused at what they are telling you guys.Old Bones is like it ain't no thing toyota is on it and everything will be great. Others are saying it is a total runaround. In a nutshell any advice would be greatly appreciated

Sambone5769 · February 2009

I never considered the rental a liability till it hit me in the pocket personally, and I can't afford things like this right now. I really can't afford a new payment.

However, I think it might be in my best interests to take a spin around there used lot and see if there is something that might work as a trade. Even if they offered me top KBB for my Taco, that's not saying a whole lot since the value has plummeted recently.

I'd like to get a truck back. Not a TOY that breaks if it's sneezed on wrong. I use my truck, it's not just for looks.

mcalautt · February 2009

Sambone5769 your wrong.
why buy another toyota after this run around and blatant disregard for your safety.
I will never buy a toyota again and not because of the quality, [non-permissible content removed] happens,
but the way they are treating people sux.
further more, trade in your taco now for nothing, the dealership will get the frame paid for the same way and turn around and sell it for much more and tell the buyer " dont worry about the frame problem you heard of sir, this has a new frame with a 15 year warranty.."
DONT GIVE EM UR MONEY..
u want a truck ? buy a ridgeline.. look at consumer reports.. it got awesome accross the board

Sambone5769 · February 2009

No no no - you misunderstood me. I've been burned enough that I'm through with Toyota. Unless some amazing change comes over corporate's regard for their customers and our safety, then they can kiss my grits.
I wanted a Tacoma ever since I saw Back to the Future. No joke. Finally got mine and spent a lot of happy years driving it and telling everyone I know how great and dependable and reliable they are. And now this?
Dont misunderstand, when I get another truck, it will NOT be a Toyota.

rachelf · February 2009

Turned in my Taco on Fri. am now driving a Kia Sportage at Toyota's expense......have no idea on time frame- neither does the dealer- they are going to evaluate current condition based on passing inspection ( I need a new gas tank- mine rusted- what a coincidence......) then we are going to make "an agreement on what the frame repair will include" sounds squeaky to me..we'll see.

doubleusn · February 2009

Dealer said 8+ weeks last week of Dec, but we both acknowledged it was a SWAG at best.

In the end I think Corp is jerking the dealers around just as much.

I was also skeptical of a new Tacoma but this is all my dealer sells.

One may have better luck at a multivendor dealer.

Just thinking out loud.

FWIW: It has been six weeks and still no letter and I know my old 02 is still just sitting there.

mcalautt · February 2009

sorry samboni.. glad you are not giving them your money.

doublesn,

you are not obligated to buy a truck from the dealer your getting yours "fixed" at.
so go to another dealer after yours get fixed.
Odds are ( i assume) the new tacoma's will not have the same frame problem but this is a matter of morals.

doubleusn · February 2009

Agreed, but for clarity's sake.

I didn't wanna wait 3-6 months for this to happen, I didn't want the rental liability, and mostly didn't want the hassle of waiting.

I agree I am gambling, but the dealer now owns the problem, and I can walk away per se.

I got a trade number from the dealer a few days before my frame problem was discovered (I like to keep up on what things are worth). They honored this number in my 09 deal, and also heavily discounted their 09.

Everybody has different situations. If I had the time and my cal was clearer I would have waited it out, but it was not the case.

Some here have the time, some don't want the hassle, some want anything but Toyota, some wanna keep their truck, just have to go with what works best for you.

What I did was the best version of walking away I could get, and I needed to do that.

Cheers
-wsn

theiglu · February 2009

Drove my '01 TRD to the dealership Friday afternoon. The lady handling the buyback was nice, had me sign the bill of sale, title and handed me the check. Didn't even look at my truck first.

I have since purchased a 2002 Tacoma regular cab for very short money. Going into this knowing about frame replacements, I can't complain and actually look forward to having new suspension done when the frame finally goes. It just sucks to lose your truck that you thought you would have forever, not so bad when you keep in mind the frame warranty while buying used. If it was a low milage or decent shape truck, I'd complain, but for a used vehicle with 116k on it, free leaf springs/frame/suspension/etc is pretty decent. Think i'll have them do my clutch while they are in there.

I have until 2017 for the 2002, so far the frame is solid.

rachelf · February 2009

Dealer calls me today to say what i need to be done to pass inspection- other than the frame kit : rotors and pads, gas tank and shield and an e brake....all for $ 2100.00
Yikes......i dont even need the e- brake ( mine is frozen).
I am going to have my local mechanic do all of this for1/2 the price........kind of a bummer to see the greed coming from Toyota..........Hey, how did 01' people get the buy out and not the 02? Should i hound Kevin on this?

rusty01tacoma · February 2009

This is an email I sent to TOYOTA CANADA today:

Hi, I have a 2001 Tacoma. I appreciate the buyback program you offered for the earlier models. I'm sure your sales of 09 tacomas increased because of it. My problem is that I do not officially qualify for the buyback even though I have the EXACT same symptoms/problems. I know about the frame replacement but I did not buy my tacoma to have its frame swapped out. This is unheard of. What I need clarification on is the reason as to why some 2001 tacoma owners are getting buyback at %100, some at %150, and some don't even get offered the buyback, and yet again, some are told their trucks don't qualify for any program at all, and are left to drive their unsafe, uninspectible trucks away empty handed due to no fault of their own. It can't be the dealers deciding to buyback certain 2001's because if they are not officialy included in the buyback then TOYOTA corporation would not reimburse them. So in my mind I believe that TOYOTA CORP has given them instructions to buyback certain 2001 models. If this is the case then it is discrimination against 2001 owners and it should be made officical that all 2001's are eligible for buyback. Please let me know what is going on here. I am too scared to even bring my truck to the dealer yet because I am afraid of what the outcome will be and my option for repair, if any at all. Please get back to me ASAP.

Let's see how long and what kind of response I get back.

cman23 · February 2009

The e-brake cable comes with the frame kit,don't know if your e-brake pivots are seized which may be the case, but the e-brake cable is definitely replaced with the frame,along with all the brake lines,control arms and leaf springs, and various bolt kits. I did not ever follow up, the frames were originally manufactured by DANA corporation and are again being supplied by DANA. They last used these particular frames in 2004 Tacoma's. I am unsure who manufactures the 2005 to 2009 frames. I am unsure how some of you are receiving out of pocket expenses for a loaner vehicle,if that is the case. The whole situation is frustrating, but your dealer should make this pretty pain free.

jokerman17 · February 2009

My 01 taco passed inspection and I was told they will call me back to have the truck frame "rustproofed". This is the dealership that I bought the truck at and they were a lot more helpful than my local dealer who were clowns. I know this is the easy way out for them and all it will do is look good but so be it. I can't afford a car payment right now either.

bearcatter · February 2009

I read my journal recently where in 2005 I launched "Operation Preserve Tacoma. That whole notion is laughable now. In 2005 my 2003 Tacoma was a daily driver commuter vehicle racking up 50,000 miles/year. I wrote that "this is the best pick-up I'll ever own" so I better take steps to "preserve" it. So I bought a car to use as a commuter vehicle and this Tacoma became a weekend vehicle to keep the miles off. What a difference 3 years makes. I may have the noble idea of preserving this Tacoma but the frame under this truck has other ideas. I wish now that I hadn't bought the car and instead had driven this Tacoma into the ground. If my Tacoma was nearer the end of it's useful life, this whole frame business would be easier to take, as I wouldn't have so much stranded value in the truck. My grand plan was for the truck to last until 2015 and 300,000+ miles. I figure I may have about 2 years left on my frame. Unbelievable.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought they bought a 300,000 mile vehicle of impecable reliability. I never would have believed the frame would do it in. You can bet that with any truck I buy in the future, I'll keep the frame well washed and painted. Trial by fire. We'll always carry these scars caused by Toyota.

rusty01tacoma · February 2009

Here's the response; supposedly Toyota is not aware of any reported problems with 2001-2004 tacoma rust perforation???

Dear Mr. --------,

Thank you for your most recent correspondence.

We would like to take this opportunity to explain that Toyota has received isolated reports regarding a small number of 1995 through 2000 model year Tacoma vehicles exhibiting excessive rust corrosion to the frame causing perforation of the metal. Only certain 1995 through 2000 model year Tacoma vehicles, produced in North America between January 1995 and September 2000, are eligible. Although we will continue to monitor the later model years, we have not seen any pattern of rust incidence in 2001 to 2004 model year vehicles that is unusual for this age range.

It is important to remember that this condition is unrelated to and separate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment. However, if you notice perforation of the frame and/or large amounts of rust that flake off the vehicle, we suggest you contact a Toyota dealership of your choice in order to have your vehicle inspected.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Nikki Cornell
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.

1990Suburban · February 2009

My 2005 Tacoma also has a cracked frame around the engine mount. I had the same exact problem with the radiator fan hitting the shroud and took it to the dealer and they said since it was out of warranty they couldn't do anything about it. I've talked to everyone from the corporate office to the customer relations manager at the dealer and I can't get anyone to talk to me about this problem now. One of the managers at the dealer even suggested to me that I should turn it in and use that money towards a new Tacoma. He also called it an old truck since it has 110k miles on it. I was under the impression they sold quality vehicles that lasted forever and Im not going to buy another truck from a company that cant stand behind their vehicles. The truck has been sitting out front of my house collecting dust since 9/08. Since I need my truck so bad I've even tried getting my insurance company to pay to repair it and they won't cover it since they say it's a "manufacturing defect". To the owners of 2005 and newer trucks please take a look under your truck around the engine mount and see if there is any cracking or bending of the frame. If there is take it to your dealer and request a FTS/DSPM Inspection so we can get something done about these defective trucks before they cause an accident and kill someone.

Heres what mine looks like.
http://tinyurl.com/tacomaframe

GoinDivin · February 2009

I'm sure I'd feel differently if I was stuck waiting for a frame replacement, but I was one of the fortunate '01 owners to get a buyback offer.

Got the check yesterday, which was pretty much exactly 150% of KBB by my calculating, and my local dealer was extremely helpful throughout the process, making sure I had a nice new Camry to drive while the process played out.

Took delivery of my '09 Taco the week before turning over the title to the old one. This is my second Taco and fourth Toyota truck, and this problem aside, they're just hard to beat. I too had planned to keep my '01 for at least two or three more years, and wasn't planning on having payments again this soon, but I think the treatment I received was more than fair.

MiKobE · February 2009

I am not a Toyota Employee, but I am an owner of a 2001 4Dr - 4WD - SR5 - 92k miles.
I am "in the system" as of approximately two months ago. I took my Taco in for the 90k maint. and found out then that I had the frame perforation issue. At that point the dealer placed me into the buy-back program.
Since that point, I have been surfing all the blogs and forums and communicating directly with my dealer weekly. I have read many conversations regarding the newer vehicles and questions surrounding the buyback and how much they might get or have gotten some dollar amount for their vehicles.
Approximately three weeks ago, my dealer informed me that I (my situation) would not be participating in the buyback plan, but would instead be eligible for the "frame rework" plan. This was after the dealer took about 40 pictures of the Taco and sent them to the district manager. After another week I found that I would not be participating in a rework plan but that I would be participating in a rebuild plan.
Subsequent conversations have revealed that Toyota is responding to the newer owners (2001-2004) by 1)If their vehicles are not in good enough shape overall (Not sure what the specific requirements of this are), then a buy-back might be possible, but unlikely. 2)Some vehicles (frames) could be "rvamped". Highly unlikely as the liability associated with revamping a questionable frame structure would carry too high of a liability in my opinion for a large company as Toyota to deal with. 3)If their vehicles are considered of a high level of good condition, they are seriously considering a "re-build" which means Toyota will perform a complete ground up new frame on restore.
This now appears to be the case for me. Last week I spoke with my dealer and they stated that they in process of putting together the "parts list" for the rebuild. This means the new frame, all A325 bolts (high strength), bushings, isolators and possibly the leaf springs as they deem necessary.
To date, this is all I know. I have generated a list of questions that will need to be answered and a "punch list" of items that I feel they should consider part of the rebuild. And I naturally plan on doing some "refeshing" on my own.
Like- Body & bed checked for rust- treated with rust inhibitor and undercoated as needed. There will be more added to this list as I find out what Toyota is not including on their list.
Right now, I'm staying in close contact with my dealer and my body guy in case I need him for some "tweaking".
Hope this answers some of your questions.
MobiKobE

tcincy · February 2009

Jokerman:

If you really like your '01 Taco and don't see them
a. buying it back;
b. giving you much of a trade-in, then

I suppose rust-inhibitor would be a good idea. I would be kind of susicious if they were applying what they call "rustproofing" to an 8 yr. old Taco.

I had a '99 and it had enough rust for the buyback program, even though I didn't think it had much.

I have a brother who rust-proofed the h*** out of his '98 Taco when it was brand new and he has "no hint" of rust on his, hence, his did not qualify for buyback.

Tim Cincy

jokerman17 · February 2009

Yeah I pretty much have to keep the truck, I just put shocks in it and had the front brakes done.It also has to go in the body shop I will never get my money out of it selling now.The frame on mine is in pretty good shape living in southern new jersey probably saved it. Still my old ranger never had the signs of rust like this truck and that was exposed to a lot more salty roads.I saw a picture of a taco in the shape of an 'A' on the internet. The frame snapped as they were driving it around at an auction, the exterior of the truck looked to be in very good condition.I'm undecided if I would buy another taco, will follow how the new ones are holding up.

mcalautt · February 2009

thats the problem.. the new ones are not old enough to find out if there is a prob.
right now toyota is saying 2001 - 2004 and I bet that is only because owners complained. whos to know if it affects 05,06,07 ? they may be too new to see
any rot problems.
I asked toyota if they knew for a fact when the frames were manufactured correctly and they wouldnt answer me.,

rodnh · February 2009

Here's what my '02 4x4 TRD w/80K original miles looks like:

It failed an independent state safety inspection last week. I then took it to the local dealer where I purchased it new. He inspected it and stated that it was "UNSAFE TO DRIVE". I can see why. The picture is only a sample of the terrible condition of the frame. This dealer is gearing up specifically for a lot of frame replacements. I am told they anticipate doing about six a month for some indefinite period. They start their first one tomorrow. I will be the second one behind that. I don't like being a guinea pig but I guess it's better to be second than first. It is very unclear to me just how much this is going to cost me out-of-pocket. The dealer seems to be saying that ONLY the frame itself is included in the deal. That leaves a lot of other parts up in the air. Surely there will be some that have to be replaced that otherwise would not be, simply because they will have to be destroyed during removal. Anyway, I'm playing it by ear right now. I expect to be called sometime during the next two weeks for my frame replacement. There is no buy-back option. I was told my only choices are frame replacement or trade.

doubleusn · February 2009

Looks just like mine did. I went with a trade deal as it was a very good offer, and I didn't wanna deal with being jerked around by Toyota Corp for the next 6 months.

I like my 09 and am glad to be rid of the frame nightmare.

Whoever moved the clock in the post 05 tacomas ( I had a 98 and an 02) ... thank you :-)

I also always had SR5's and the TRD shocks make frost heaves (new england) much easier to deal with.

Still feels weird having an ebrake on the floor.

hockeyeast · February 2009

Holy Crap...even my 1996 wasn't this bad! It did fail but this is amazing. Looks like the frames were made worse on the later models!! :lemon:

hockeyeast · February 2009

What did toy do to resolve the frame problems in the 09s??

HOBP · February 2009

Same story - took my 02 Double Cab 101K mi (bought 10/04 w/ 67K mi, love it!) in 01/29/09 for an oil svc / free up rear e-brake pivots (new e-brake bellcranks & pivots installed 11/07 due same problem, but then I never really used e-brake & they recommended to do so and I didn't since then, so guess my fault).

There I am in showroom 15 min later quietly reading a book - Svc Mgr comes over and sits down next to me. - He: "Have you heard about our 2001 - 2004 frame replacement program?" Me: "No". Goes on to briefly explian that I have a rusted frame - that they found a 1 1/2" hole etc and that they will "replace the frame". Me: "Wow - that's a lot of work!"

Apparently I am the first at this dealership - so my Taco will be their "Guinea Pig"!

They gave me a 4x4 2009 Taco Access Cab loaner/rental - very nice but I am obviously spoiled with the room / access of the Double Cab.

Svc Mgr said it would take 2 - 3 weeks - and that they would call me w/ update on frame work - also would call due fact loaner had under 1K mi and I should not go over 4K (assume so they can sell as a demo) - maybe then swap out loaner.

No word as of today. My Taco also has a badly rusted rear bumper (started 2 yrs ago) - thru painted surface every few inches (assume at mountings) - and rust is starting to perforate / show on the tailgate (4 - 5" area lower right corner).

SO - my questions (4):

1) Do any of you have new info - has anyone's Taco frame been worked yet?
2) Seems to me that ANYTHING however connected to the rusted frame should be part of the deal is rusted beyond solid/safe attachment capability - brackets / body pan / rocker panels / fenders etc? If I am not presented with a ZERO-$ repair bill I will "pitch a fit", to say the least.
3) Should I seek to get the rear bumper and tailgate replaced as part of the deal - for "Goodwill"? They should have gone rust-free to at least 150/200K mi, yes?
4) W/ ref to #3, guess the possibility of getting a "Rattletrap" back from the so-far-untested frame replacement process is fairly high (no rattles/squeaks on my Taco so far), so all the more reason to press for some addl "Goodwill", yes?

PS: I have not yet contacted Toyota Corp/Cust Svc, as after reading this forum my problem seems clear - no buy-back offered on 2002 etc- dealing only w/ dealer on their frame replacement option.

Thanks, all!

mcalautt · February 2009

your damn right.. this shouldnt cost you a cent and if anyone else you know parked even close to your taco and now they have rust on thier cars, id make them pay for that too.
in other words, they should replace anything connected to that frame that is rotted.

HOBP · February 2009

Thx, mcalautt!

Very Funny, that comment about "parked even close"! - Believe you mentioned in previous post(s) that you are in the Albany area? Hey, maybe our Tacos "traded rust" last year while parked in adjacent spaces in the Crossgates Mall? --- Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!

My Taco apparently spent the first 67K miles of it's life running back & forth on I-88 - beautiful condition when I bought it 10/04.

Nov 08 I heard an exhaust noise - crawled under and found a split on muffler seam - OK I can deal w/ that (probably original) - replaced all from Cat back for $390 local shop.

At the same time I did notice a HELL OF A LOT OF RUST ON THE FRAME AND ANYTHING CONNECTED TO IT. But then I am not an expert on frames/rust - no knowledge/notice until dealer advised me during the 01/09 oil service appointment.

To date have received no letter/notice from Toyota re the frame problem. No, I am not the orig owner, but servicing dealer database should have generated the letter, yes?

So much for customer communications...

rachelf · February 2009

ADK Taco owner - currently driving a Kia Sportage furnished by Toyota.....my 02 Taco is sitting in Plattsburgh, NY waiting for a frame replacement. Service Dept. tried to hose me on pre- existing non- frame related (ha..) work. I need a gas tank. rotors and pads, and they said an e-brake. I will have my local honest mechanic do all this......He said he can fix the existing e brake and do the rest of the work for 1/2 the $ the dealer quoted. Dealer got very pissy w/ me when I rejected additional repairs, and especially rude when I requested to know what will be included on frame repair..I am the 1st one for them.....I have my fingers crossed.

bearcatter · February 2009

HOBP,

You're zeroing in the biggest issue with this frame replacement - "the zero $ repair bill".

Now do you really believe that they aren't going to break things and try to backcharge you, as what broke wasn't part of the original frame kit? Us Tacoma owners being charged for stuff that breaks during this frame replacement or immediately after the frame replacement is my biggest fear. I simply don't have the money to pay for all the rusted incidental stuff that broke during the frame replacement or fails soon after due to be thrashed on. Come on. You know Toyota and their dealers. You WILL be charged for some of the incidental stuff that breaks and to me that is unacceptable, as that stuff wouldn't have broken if I wasn't forced into this frame replacement.

Toyota is NOT going to warranty stuff that breaks soon after the frame replacement. For instance, I fully expect my entire exhaust system to fail after the frame replacement, because once you disturb something like the exhaust, the subsequent failures are like dominoes. Toyota is NOT going to fix for free all that ratty stuff that pops up after the frame replacement.

Because of the sad reality of this out of pocket cost to us owners, that's why I say that high buyback is the only acceptable option.

rachelf · February 2009

I agree.....but did you see the NY Times on Friday? Toyota is reporting 5 Billion in losses..........not lookin' good for us!

bearcatter · February 2009

Because Toyota is experiencing economic pressures is why I strongly believe they won't do the right thing. We Tacoma owners are going to pay for this, and if it means nickel and diming us for stuff that breaks during the frame replacement, so be it.

This is why I think the ultimate answer is to force Toyota to do the right thing - easier said than done. My state AG blew me off with a form letter, refering to this Tacoma debacle, as this "matter". My US Rep is supposedly pursuing this "matter". Somehow, someone of authority, needs to force a mandatory recall of this truck. It's hard to get past the fill in the forms to a live person who is actually willing to carry the torch.

I'm taking the approach that I'm entirely on my own. I need to do everything I can to make this frame last. I need to keep the salt washed off, keep the exterior painted, and keep the interior of the frame covered in oil. Toyota is not likely to solve all my problems for free, even if they played a part in most of them.

devilfan · February 2009

Well mine is now 'under the knife.' Last week the service manager said they had finally gotten all of the part info from corp and were manually entering the part numbers to order everything. I spoke with him yesterday and was told that all the parts are in and they were beginning to work on it. It was taken for a test drive by 2 "senior techs" to see how it was before they started the work. As they go through it I will be contacted to let me know if any parts should be replaced 'while they're replacing the frame.' Service manager - who has been excellent to date, the only one giving me a straight story - said that it would be a good time to do any work they find needed as the labor would be almost free. Not sure what the heck that means but as others have mentioned I am not planning on paying a thing. If they break anything they're paying for it and if they find that they need to replace something not covered I have no intention of paying. I should know when to expect it back in the next few days so will keep you up to date.

I would highly recommend what others have done - write and call everyone you can to complain. NHTSB, state consumer protection board, attorney general, etc. Seems quite coincidental that a few days after I received a letter from my state consumer board indicating they had sent a letter to Toyota corporate the parts suddenly became available. Most be just one of those coincidences.

I am not confident that the truck will ever be the same but am stuck. My regular mechanics will check it out after I get it back to let me know what's what. Hope all works out well but ...........

rachelf · February 2009

Here's the skinny- my frame "kit "arrived today at the dealer. It includes: brake lines, control arm, brackets, and rear spring...... we'll see how it goes, they are saying end of next week............

Sambone5769 · February 2009

My local service manager called me this morning to inform me that he expected the kit next week and to allow another week for installation. He DID mention at no cost to me as well which I was expecting but still relieved to hear. We'll see if he stands by his word, but at his point I'm still seriously considering trying to unload the truck right away and get something else ... non Toyota.
Please let us know how things turn out.

pataco01 · February 2009

Well, stopped at the dealership today. Its been just over a month and no frame yet. They told me they got their first one today. I'm 4 or 5. I also got to talk to the mechanic doing it and he told me exactly what goes on and he said so far Toyota is replacing anything bad on the frame...control arms, springs, lines, etc. They told me it would probably be a few more weeks. The dealership has been great so far and they're actually impressing me.

pokienoze · February 2009

Well I found out yesterday that Toyota is going to replace the frame on my 2001 Tacoma. The frame should be in within a month. I was hoping for a buy back. My problem is I am in Iraq until April, and my brother is handling everything for me back in the states. Does it really do any good to try and fight for a buyback or are you just wasting your energy? I am not sure what direction to go in on my end especially by not being in the states. I haven't had a lot of time to research but have read some of the posts here. Any input/comments/answers????

Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles