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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX
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Comments
2018 430i Gran Coupe
At least I think that was you.
The CX7 makes less power and is tuned for regular fuel. They did have the engine before, from the 6, but imagine the costs to certify that car for the tiny volumes it sells in.
Mike, you are incorrect here. During the prior generation (during the initial years), Subaru provided clear numbers of the sales of their high-margin Turbo Impreza (WRX) models. They even had to increase the imports of the WRX, to satisfy the much higher than anticipated demand.
The current version (WRX not 2.5i) is hurting badly, which is why they are not offering any breakdown of the Impreza sales numbers. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to have perdicted this scenario, right at the point of the introduction of this model. The 2008 2.5i (as I have always stated) is a good value when compared to the prior generation but the 08 WRX is not so.
All the incentives that dino001 pointed out above, is not indicative of a hot model in its first sales year after a "full re-design". Even Edmunds pointed out how outdated the WRX appears beside the redesigned Ralliart Lancer. :sick:
Sure the WRX has gotten a couple of bells over the prior model and a couple of whistles got taken away from the prior model. If the objective of the new WRX is to compete against its currently unavailable predecessor, then yes, it might barely make it. And I think that is probably what the Subaru product planners shot for - try to slightly improve upon or maintain the performance of the prior model, while reducing the manufacturing costs. Now they are reaping the whirlwind from their short-sighted actions. A big difference from the approach that Nissan adopted when it came to their super-car, which they benchmarked against one of the world's best, the Porsche 911 Turbo, and beat it on every single performance parameter, while pricing it well below it.
How do you know? You just said you don't have the data.
Even in real-world prices, the 2.5i starts at $16k, the WRX at $22k. After incentives, still a huge markup.
I doubt they are hurting.
I just wish instead of trying to make some debatably incremental improvements on the prior model, they should have tried to bring back the original WRX magic, back into the line, by benchmarking on some other extraordinary product in the market. Something that would have excited the whole country and galvanized the rest of their lineup - as the original WRX did. As a fan of Subaru's engineering oriented outlook, I think this was a true missed opportunity for Subaru after 7 years of the prior model's run. When I say "wet dishrag", that is exactly how I feel about this WRX, which can be outrun by current day family cars like 280HP Toyota Camry and Honda Accords - something unthinkable when the original REX hit the land.
Ditto - or as I said many times already "it's not 2002 anymore".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Nissan GTR- This is a supercar priced at $70K, this is also coming from a company that is a full-line manufacturer, not a niche market player. You can't compare a GTR to an STi, cause you can get about 2 STis for ever GTR, and the GTR will sell for close to $100k when it actually arrives.
"WRX Needs the excitement of the 02 WRX"- This is simply NEVER EVER going to happen again, it was a one-time only dealio. No matter what you put in the 08 WRX it could never compare to the 02 WRX in terms of the excitement and leaps forward that Subaru took. So anyone who says "we need that excitement" is only fooling themselves.
"I want a LGT Wagon w/MT"- Very easy, get an Outback XT, and put on a set of Spec B Struts/Springs. You then essentially have a LGT. I've done this on countless cars and driven them. They feel as good or better than my LGT does.
"MS3" What are the overall sales figures on the MS3? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that they aren't exactly high in number. It's the old Supply and Demand curve thing. You can sell the MS3 @ MSRP all day long if you only sell 1 per dealership. I remember the days where no Toyotas ever had incentives or rebates on them and sold at or near MSRP across the board in record numbers. Now that was impressive, now you have $7k rebates on the Tundra, in it's 1st year of production!
-mike
I'm glad you mentioned Mazda, as they are perfect example. They got in trouble because they watered down their sporty appeal of their cars in favor of making them like Corolla/Camry. Remember last generation of 626 and Protege? While good value, they were so unispiring that they topped Toyota in being boring. It was new 6 then 3 and "zoom-zoom" slogan (i.e. bringing back the sportiness in handling even without big hp numbers) that brought them back from oblivion. Same happened to Nissan (that and their aggressive cost containment measures).
For me Subaru actually seems to be stepping into same route Mazda took in late 90s, trading those niche/enthusiast appeals for some elusive mainstream thing.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I think you missed my point completely here. I am not comparing the GTR to the STI at all, since these products operate in 2 completely different segments. I am comparing the strategy adopted by Nissan when they developed the GTR, to that employed by Subaru with the WRX. Nissan did not go to their prior version and put in some incremental touches, spiff it up a bit and did a "there you go". They did not go to a Mustang Cobra or some such product and try to thrash the daylights out of it by out-designing it - who would care for such a product ? But, what they did is to introduce a segmental game-changer by going for the jugular, and design bench-marking their upcoming product on the BEST available (a Porsche 911 Turbo) with a $50,000 price premium, and BEAT it in every single objective and subjective category and THEN introduced it to the marketplace. No incremental nonsense there.
"WRX Needs the excitement of the 02 WRX"- This is simply NEVER EVER going to happen again, it was a one-time only dealio. No matter what you put in the 08 WRX it could never compare to the 02 WRX in terms of the excitement and leaps forward that Subaru took. So anyone who says "we need that excitement" is only fooling themselves.
Whenever I hear statements like the above, I would state that we need more imagination around here (and in Subaru product planning circles). Constant and imaginative innovation with smart engineering, is the lifeblood of a manufacturer, especially for a niche/small player like Subaru. They can be imaginative/innovative without commiting design blunders like the original Tribeca, which even a pre-schooler could have told them is a disaster waiting to happen. They completely frittered away the overwhelming dominance they held with the original WRX by holding onto the same product for an inordinately long time with few changes and then introducing an underwhelming re-design after 7-8 excruciatingly long years....after several years of being panned in every single competitive comparison. Any thoughts as to why Honda constantly tinkers with the Accord and introduces a newer, completely re-designed and much improved variant into the marketplace, every 4 years, like clockwork ? Even if the prior version sells just fine (largest selling sedan in the country for retail sales - unlike Camry which sells to rental agencies in big numbers) ? Place a Honda Accord that you can buy today, and place it beside a Honda Accord that you could buy in 2001 and check the differences out, now drive both Accords around a bit, under varying conditions...should be an eye opener.
"MS3" What are the overall sales figures on the MS3? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that they aren't exactly high in number. It's the old Supply and Demand curve thing. You can sell the MS3 MSRP all day long if you only sell 1 per dealership.
Again, you are completely missing the point here. The purpose of the MS3 in the Mazda 3 lineup is not to be a huge seller by itself. It probably is able to barely break even for the manufacturer, as a product, when considered in isolation. However, the purpose of the MS3 is to function as a halo (but affordable) product in the Mazda 3 lineup, which will single-handedly be able to drive even larger sales volumes to the plain-jane M3. I think they succeeded famously there.
I feel our 2005 2.5i Legacy wagon has been a great car. It gets great mileage for a mid-size AWD wagon, and doesn't feel overly underpowered because of the manual transmission. It does fine towing a small uHaul trailer or a small pop-up, hauls a bunch of bikes, is reasonably accommodating of a child seat (although this is a weak spot for it) and it was reasonably priced. It does 95% of everything we wanted and it does it well, and it has exhibited good build quality. Its just sad that it is our first and last new Subaru.
They no longer make a wagon period and are no longer supporting manual transmissions on most models. I would be interested in a 2004-5 WRX w/premium package, or a Legacy wagon like Mike's (I regret not getting at least the 2.5i limited, but the LGT Limited would've been fantastic), but nothing in their current line up appeals to me. It was like insult to injury when we would get those guaranteed trade in allowance things.
As they continue go to mainstream and there is less and less to distinguish them from other manufacturers, I fear they will go the way of Isuzu.
Unfortunately even after 22k miles since I bought it in July, it still feels like the first day that I bought it
-mike
I would add "at the original, optimistic price". I guess where our opinions differ is that I think Subaru built-in plenty of padding to lower prices. They're not like Saturn or Scion (even though perhaps they should adopt that one-price strategy, and set prices low to begin with).
They got in trouble because they watered down their sporty appeal
I think that started happening sooner, when the cars were still sporty.
We got our 626 V6 5-speed for invoice minus a huge rebate. It was $20k or so for a $25k car, with leather, moonroof, alloys, loaded to the gills. They were hurting, losing money big time. This was 1995.
The de-contented 626 showed up in 1997, IIRC. The NB Miata softened that car up for 1998. We'd need to see the balance sheets to deteremine when they started losing money, but I think it happened sooner.
love your posts.
I traded my Hummer H3 for a used 2008 wrx hatchback.
My local dealership would not deal so I dealt with dealership via internet four hours away down in MA
had the numbers and deal worked out before I left, my husband tagged along. When we arrived the car I picked was there and paper work ready to sign, but my husband spotted the sti, I told him that the sti would smoke our sons VW GTI, turbo.
he looked at the sti side by side with the wrx I picked out, asked how much payment would be with 2000.00 down, salesman came back, 580.00 per month, hubby spent an hour thinking about it, then went for it, but as we sat down the finance guy said, no that payment was for $4,000.00 down, then ontop of that they said they couldn't sell it untill Subaru sent them a test kit to test that model, because there was a stop sell on certain turbos with certain Vin#s and that one fell into it, UGH!
So we drove off with the one I intended on buying, I was so close to getting a sti!
Hey pretty happy with 2008 wrx!
Having a situation with radio stations and maybe antenna issue though, the nav and cd player work fine and sound fine, but radio stations and volume comes in and out almost no sound when we move at high speed. At a complete stop radio is fine. Yesterday didn't have any of those issues though?
The dvd player sound is having issues or maybe it's the user?
when I play a dvd the music to dvd is fine, but when people speak they sound like they are in a cave?
weird.
when I eject dvd the radio has a crackle static sound? :confuse:
any advice?
The last 3 months' sales were up 16-24% compared to last year so don't expect any dramatic changes.
The 4 speed is actually pretty smooth, and SportShift lets you control it directly.
For a vehicle like the WRX, I'd much prefer the manual as well. Can you teach her stick?
I've driven the new Forester XT, and I wasn't wild about the 4-speed in it. Faster for sure than the non-turbo, but it really needs a 5th gear.
Bob
Would you consider a used one? The 2004-2007 WRX automatic seems to be about 80% of the cost of the originally cheaper manual transmission model.
I fear Toyota would drop the model before dropping the automatic.
Heck, to be truthful, they should have a 6-speed automatic. That's where the market is moving.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/100
Or get that CVT here ASAP!
Bob
Drop the WRX automatic? Very possible. Very few markets offer a WRX automatic. Why? Because they don't sell. Australia dropped the WRX automatic a few years ago.
Bob
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Can you be more specific?
There have been torque rating limitations in the past, but the latest units in Nissan vehicles (made by JATCO who also supplies Subaru with auto trans guts) are quite capable.
http://www.subaru.com/shop/specifications.jsp?year=2008&model=LEGACY&trim=25GTLI- MITED&command=features
Most who test drive the Legacy GT compare it to a high performance European sports sedan. (With much better reliability of course. :-)
I am not surprised at all. Subaru deliberately crippled the AT version, with a 4-speed AT, when even $13K Honda Fits have been appearing for several years with a 5-speed AT.
On top of that, from the 2008 model year, they quietly removed the VTD Differentials (Center differential with planetary gears that split power 45/55 front/rear) of the AT, and slipped in the cheaper front-wheel biased AWD system of the lower-end Automatic Imprezas. In the new AWD system, you can make the 2008 AT WRX a full-time Front-wheel-drive vehicle, by pulling a simple fuse. The 2007 and prior years, you could not, since it had a real Center Differential.
I am not surprised that the AT Imprezas don't sell that well. The 2002-2005 model years were crippled with a 2.0L rubber-band engine (along with the 4AT), which the 2006-2007 model years solved with a 2.5L DOHC Turbo Boxer (but still with the 4AT).
Put in a 5-speed Transmission, with paddle shifters and the Rear-wheel-biased VTD AWD system from the pre-2008 years, and see the AT version fly off the lots. This is after all, the US market.
For the mainstream market, the ability to avoid a flat bed tow could well be more important than VTD rear wheel bias. Not all areas have many flat bed tow trucks readily available.
Of course my 3.0R has VTD.
-mike
Bob
Bob
Bob
Bob