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2008 Subaru Impreza WRX
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Comments
Honda does have a smaller FR-V but it's just not competitive.
Well in Asia things are a lot different. Lots of cars are made in Thailand. You know I forgot to check but many cars made for Asia don't have heaters. When I go to the Toyota dealer for my next service I will see if it actually has a heater.
These aren't Euro spec cars. You'd be amazed at what they do locally and how much the prices are!!! A loaded 2007 V6 Camry will set you back over $40K US! :surprise:
The CR-V here will fit 4 adults but that's about it and the RAV4 is slightly bigger and will seat 4 Big adults or 12 Filipinos :P
Considering I got 9 of us into my 1983 diesel BJ40 Landcruiser I think the RAV4 could hold 11 anyway
Sizes I didn't measure but the CR-V I didn't get a brochure for I do have the one for the RAV4. We only get the 4 cyl here but I think a V6 could be ordered under a special order Oh here is length width and height on the RAV4 in millimeters
Length 4,600 x Width 1,855 x Height 1,720
They don't list interior dimensions. The CR-V felt like a tall Civic which they also had. Most uncomfortable seats I ever sat on were in that Civic. The felt like I was sitting on a rock with felt on it.
I can't get the sizes on the CR-V as it's a pretty far drive just for that. But I'm amazed at how small the CR-V was. The new WRX interior had better be good and not like the Civic they have here.
Bob
It sure does when I am paying for it. :P
You can get good deals on Hondas depending on when you go to buy them and when the car is out 2008's early on will have no discounts. If I want to compare an Accord to a WRX and I am. it's my choice and the money is very close with all the rebates.
I compare based on my needs not based on someone else idea of what I should buy. The Legacy seems to be a bit on the expensive side and sure I might test drive one but resale on the Honda will be higher and it's easy to sell the Honda when the time comes. My WRX was a hard sell after a year and a half or so I had no options as I had to move out of the country for work.
I'm not a fanboy for any car. I buy whatever I feel is right for me at the time. I hated my 1995 Accord. The new one (2007) seems much nicer by miles than the old one.
How will the 2008 drive? I don't know but I'm going to drive both anyway and make my decision based on a series of factors. Subaru ticked me off by removing the LSD. But I still might buy one.
It's ticks me off when people tell me what I can and can't compare and buy with my money. I think Edmunds did an article called Apples and Oranges or something like that. Well in my mind it's my money and for me the 2 cars are close enough for my needs to compare.
Maybe they'll discount the WRX or maybe I can get a better deal on the Honda? But no way am I going to just look at one brand and one model based on some marketing demographic that says Steve you must compare these 2 cars because we say so.
I concur, and even as I cross shopped the Accord, I was budgeting $700 or so for sway bars/shocks, but it seems funny to do that on a brand new car.
I can't deny that, but I also have a bunch of factors that I have to consider and sure the WRX is more sporty at least I hope it still is. But economy is important and I drive a lot of highway miles, so yeah boring but it sets 4 people and luggage comfortably and now has cylinder de-activation so on the highway cruising you only use 3 cyl!
Trade-in will be very good and the diesels will get awesome economy. I can always buy an older Porsche if I want performance and if I get the WRX well that's ok as well. either way i'll still buy an Accord diesel at some point unless someone makes a better diesel car.
Once you go diesel you never want to go back.
The Accord is comfortable on long hauls and in traffic it's not really sporty. It does a lot for the money. The WRX is/was a real nice car even tho it needed premium fuel.
Gotta see how both cars drive. But you live over here in the RP for a while sit you butt down on a hard plastic chair for 3-4 hours waiting for a doctor who may or may not be on time. usually not on time. Then you hope he actually knows what he's doing and doesn't dismiss you and still want to be paid. Yeah after years of this, comfort starts to take precedent and you have to compromise something. When you reach your mid 40's and have bad back problems etc... certain very cool cars lose their appeal to drive. I think the WRX buyers are heading more mainstream anyway as that seems to be their new focus is comfort and they sure sold a lot of Limited versions versus the Boy racer huge wing styles. i had the dealer delete the rear spoiler from my car.
This was my old WRX, I still love the look of this car.
As you can see we do get some very real snow there.
As for the mini, I was pointing out that the LSD only "limited" the slip 20% v. other LSDs that are more agressive.
On cross shopping an accord? Kinda odd considering it's larger than the legacy even, has no AWD, and IIRC no LSD either.
GTO was in the works, but I realized that AWD is far superior to RWD + 400hp will ever be, same reason I ditched the idea of an 2002 540i 6MT. I'd have kicked myself if I slammed into something in the rain or the snow with a RWD car. In addition I got a killer deal on my 05 LGT Wagon 5MT that I couldn't pass up.
-mike
Ok so it uses a computer to monitor everything which is good but it still basically either cuts the throttle or applies the brakes to control the car. Sure that's the simple explanation and I understand it's a really trick system but still like most traction control systems that's how they work no matter how fancy they are. LSD's are mechanical devices, much simpler as they lockup when they detect slip. The VDC doesn't sound bad it sounds pretty good for the snow. Maybe most people won't miss anything mechanical in their cars? Thanks for the explanation on VDC tho at least I understand it a bit better now.
As for the mini, I was pointing out that the LSD only "limited" the slip 20% v. other LSDs that are more aggressive.
I had to veto the Mini even tho we like it. But with only 2 dealers within anything resembling driving distance and none in our own State and no loaner cars I think it's just not worth it until someone puts a dealership within 50 miles of us we have like 8 Honda dealers with that distance if not more and I think 4-5 Subaru dealers.
On cross shopping an accord? Kinda odd considering it's larger than the legacy even, has no AWD, and IIRC no LSD either.
Yes but it can be had for the same money or close to it and it's just one of the cars we are considering. But Hondas really hold their value and I think the Legacy is not for me but I might drive one and see but when it gets spec'd out it really costs big $$$! The 2008 Accord V6 has cylinder deactivation and highway economy should go up a bit at least 30+mpg on the highway, 260+HP. I'd really prefer a diesel Accord which will get 50+ mpg on the highway but am stuck waiting another year for it to come out. I don't really need a city car. I like AWD and the WRX was really fun in the dry, but the new one does not look so good and the Accord looks better but as I have said I have to drive them.
I think the WRX has lost it's edge. If I can find a great deal on a 2007 when I get back might get a 2007 Wagon or possibly an STi. I know you can't buy the older EVO's anymore. But price will matter. We are thinking of possibly buying a house within a year or two and that makes it more complicated. We also might move back here if I can pull early retirement. I can own any car I want and drive anything i want on the road here! No speed limits except due to road conditions. I can buy grey market vehicles and I mean almost anything they sell in japan I can buy here and then it's converted to Left hand drive. I see so much stuff that you could never own in the US. If I was brave enough to drive it in the insane traffic here I could buy an Ariel Atom!
Civic Type R's are easy to buy here but not very comfortable to drive. You don't see many Subaru's compared to EVO's but I think I can buy as low as an EVO IV up to a IX. A used 3 series 325i will run me under $10K.
I see ATV's on the road like Raptors and other models one guy has a Yamaha Raptor he drives on the road all the time. Mods are legal as long as the engine and drivetrain are registered. Emissions are pretty useless since no one uses them and to pass a test you pay about $10 and you pass! The cops all quit work around 8pm and go home and no traffic cops at all at night! My insurance on my 2006 Hi-Lux full coverage is now about $260 a YEAR! That is with my wife on the policy as a new driver! Add a zero onto that in the US depending on the car! If you get in an accident it is not held against you here. Car theft? There was one car stolen in the past year and the cops found it in 20 minutes. Yes they will break in and steal your stereo and things like that but if they get caught it's bad for them.
I have friends here who own all sorts of vehicles and I've driven a lot of them.
No traffic lights in my city but the town over has 1 traffic light! In the US you can't by a fun car unless you spend big $$$. Here anything you can afford is ok for the road!
New cars cost twice as much as the US for the same model but you can take buy an EVO VI take it out out and thrash around on the roads and no one cares. They do drifting on the base on the weekends and security just watches. No one cares what you do unless it's something very bad.
Sorry for the long winded aspect. But driving here has a lot of advantages over the traffic ticketing happy US.
GTO was in the works, but I realized that AWD is far superior to RWD + 400hp will ever be, same reason I ditched the idea of an 2002 540i 6MT. I'd have kicked myself if I slammed into something in the rain or the snow with a RWD car. In addition I got a killer deal on my 05 LGT Wagon 5MT that I couldn't pass up.
I hear ya on that one! I traded my 1995 accord in on a 1996 Impala SS. Great car, lousy mileage! The GTO looked sweet, but hard to hookup those tires even with wide rubber on the back end. Lotta HP. But most cars that are raced are RWD.
I have found tires make the difference in the snow. If you have lousy tires on an AWD car it's going to be crap in the snow or rain. I had no problems with My Miata on roads covered in snow with my Nokian Hakka Q's.
Problem was they were no fun when the roads dried up and were poor in the wet.
The Legacy is now only a Sedan anyway and I'd really like a wagon. I know the Accord isn't a wagon.
If Subaru hadn't screwed up by removing stuff instead of adding better stuff to what was already there I probably wouldn't have cross shopped. That LSD can't make a huge difference in price. But we will see maybe the WRX will be better than I think?
I have a much different view of stability control systems on top-heavy, ungainly vehicles than on small passenger cars. Stability programs on SUVs, pick-ups and vans, where the goal is to keep the rubber side down.
I'm also pretty sure the only indication the system was tying anything was the flashing VDC light, as having that little traction would adversely affect the ability of the VSC to help.
EDIT:
I wish we had gotten the LGT wagon when we got ours. If I could get an LGT wagon with a stick now, I probably would trade up. It was just too out of budget at the time.
Are you sitting in my head?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The Accord is lighter so maybe it'll be in VCM mode more often.
I drove to NY with Bob, and we got something like 28mpg, going pretty fast, too. Not bad. A turbo is much like VCM in that you can use it when you need it and stay out of the boost when you don't.
I drove to NY with Bob, and we got something like 28mpg, going pretty fast, too. Not bad. A turbo is much like VCM in that you can use it when you need it and stay out of the boost when you don't.
No idea about what the new Accord will do but traction control is ok providing you can switch it off. The VCM cold very well be improved at least I hope it is over the older version. But on the highway it will probably depend on the load you are carrying and speed etc...
The problem with a turbo is if you are driving in the turbo's band you are using fuel you really don't need. I think the 2.5 WRX has the turbo spool up at something like 2,500 rpms. In 5th gear on the highway I forget what that is but if you are going 80mph and you are 2,600 rpm's you are losing economy. The Accord is hardly a be all and end all of great cars. It' reliable and gives you a lot of car for the money. I know it's boring to drive I owned one my ex GF had one. It was pretty bland but if I find the new WRX to be bland I might as well have a comfortable car.
Bob
Ouch!
Thanks Bob, that tells me it's brushing into the turbo at that speed. 60mph on an Interstate? That's a death wish even in the snow as little old ladies will be passing you like Wile E. Coyote on Rocket Skates!
GM as in the same GM who made all the cost cutting to the WRX? :P I want a Japanese or German diesel, Honda, Toyota, or even a BMW. Something reliable.
The diesel Accord looks sweet, but Toyota is just not doing diesels in the US they have great diesels outside the US.
Seriously tho thanks for the info.
On the other hand, sounds like you'd be able to get a European Subaru diesel into the Phillippines pretty soon!
On the other hand, sounds like you'd be able to get a European Subaru diesel into the Philippines pretty soon!
Thanks for the info, so sad I will be back in the US in about 6 months or less!
Subaru making a clean diesel will be sometime off i fear. We get all kinds of diesels here and yes you can buy real Subaru's in Manila but not anywhere else yet. They have a dealership in Cebu but they have no cars.
Manila has some cars but I hate getting around there i's such a PITA that I won't even drive there.
Subaru is a good car and I still think it has possibilities but a diesel would be great, but sadly it's at least 2 years away and possibly more. By 2010 all the car makers will have a diesel out to compete with each other. Hybrids are just too limited in their usage which is mostly stop and go city driving and even the BMW 120d shuts off the engine in traffic to conserve fuel and has regenerative braking and it's not a hybrid!
Oh and a non-greymarket Subaru like say a WRX not an STI would probably cost you at least $45K USD! in the Philippines or more. Just double the US price and you'll be close and there are no discounts at all! You go in and pay the sticker price or you don't buy the car.
I've got no complaints.
Bob
I've got no complaints.
I'm just too used to the economy of a diesel I get that economy in heavy traffic!
What are you expecting if you end up with another WRX? Diesel-like mileage?
Bob
What are you expecting if you end up with another WRX? Diesel-like mileage?
I HAD a WRX, I sold it a long time back in 2003 but actually it sold in 2004 after I was already out of the country. It was a tough sell because everyone thought it had been "raced" typical of certain cars. I've owned 2 diesels in the Philippines and one gas vehicle. My Hi-Lux diesel gets an easy 24mpg in the city which is heavy traffic. If only there was traffic like in the US I'd be way above that.
It's tough to sell a car when you are out of the country and I took a beating on it. :sick:
but no choice, I was lucky to sell it and that pic was taken a week before i left and no dents or accidents or anything. I think it went for $17 or $18K.
But I couldn't store it for that long a time I thought I'd be here for 8 years! The 2.0L is also a bit different engine than the new 2.5L
Edmunds just posted something about a Saab 9-3 AWD w/ eLSD. Perhaps this might be an option for you. Of course it's the inferior Haldex system. Maybe it's just me, but having part time AWD instead of full time AWD is bad enough, but, why use front wheel drive most of the time and only use the rear for extra traction, I would have guessed the opposite, with RWD being supplemented with front drive would have been better. I'll keep the Subaru system thank you very much.
Yeah, I can tell you only have seen the old diesels. The new ones are so much better. The stuff the US will get will be cleaner than what I'm currently driving now.
don't judge all diesels until you have some current facts.
The new Honda diesel will get 50mpg and have 250ft/lbs of torque! That's out of a 4 cyl!
Who mentioned Saab? Awful car and a GM toady company.
Read up on the new diesels and diesel fuel is all new and more available in most places as well.
Or do you think the big rigs run on gas? :P
Let's compare apples to apples. You used to drive a WRX - you know comparing it to a diesel is not a fair comparison.
Beyond that, the only positive things I think I remember you saying in the last 10 pages about the upcoming WRX revolve around the interior. Everything else has been a criticism, and when someone makes a counterpoint, it seems to go by the wayside because Subaru hasn't built the car that YOU wanted. Obviously you are entitlted to your opinion, and this is a forum for discussion, but as a lurker/occasional poster on this thread MY opinion is that re-hashing the same criticisms about LSD, appearance, performance, etc, are not adding to the conversation.
This car has not even been released to the public yet. Until then, most discussion about one's willingness to purchase it or not is pure speculation. In the meantime I have seen you come up with every reason in the book as to why this may not be the car for you. I could do the same thing on a Chevy Cobalt thread, as I have no intention of buying one and lots of reasons why I wouldn't.
Sorry for the gripe, but I think anyone keeping tabs on this thread knows where you stand by now.
Doug
I get mileage ranging from 29-33mpg Hwy in the Odyssey with VCM (calculated mileage not some on-board computer mileage), depending on how much under 65mph or over 75mph, I stay on the Hwy. This mileage was obtained after the Odyssey crossed the 20K mark. Prior to that, I used to get in the 21-24 mpg Hwy range when new (which was disappointing to me at that time) and around 24-26 after around 10K miles (which I was satisfied with at the time, considering the size of the vehicle). I think the optimal mileage comes when the Odyssey hits the 20K and beyond mark, which is what people say about all Hondas, for whatever reason. This are real world numbers not some numbers published on a window sticker on on a Govt EPA site.
So when you say disappointing, I tend to think otherwise, since getting 33mpg HWY (or 21mpg City) on a large 8-seater equipped with a Gas engine, is PHENOMENAL at the very least. For reference, my friend's Sienna with AWD, gets around 18-20mpg on the highway and he is not a lead foot by any means. Also, I get around 22 combined 40%City/60%Hwy MPG in my WRX as an added aside but this number should hopefully improve as the engine is broken in over the next several thousand miles.
The G6 is okay but the turning circle was horrendous. The handling is reasonable, till you push it. The acceleration off the line is great...not so great at higher rpms.
The VW Jetta was nice for the most part, except for the steering feel....very artificial. I badly missed the steering feel of the REX, when driving the Jetta. The steering boost seemed to be lagging behind the actual turn of the wheel....extremely disappointing, considering that the rest of the product was pretty well executed.
The Hyundai Sonata would absolutely blast off the line...very powerful engine. Very spacious vehicle too. The handling and steering feel are poor, however.
The Volvo S40 (with 2.4L 5 cylinder engine) was a good handler, with very good steering feel. Comparable to the REX (except for power) in the handling department, even though the REX still has the edge....the interior is more spacious than the REX, however. In terms of power and handling when pushed, the REX would humiliate this Volvo. The tiny buttons for all controls in the Volvo, was an ergonomic disaster.
The Saturn Ion was a complete disappointment. Noodle soft suspension that kept on bobbing up and down with every imperfection on the road. Very unsatisfying with poor steering feel and weak engine. I will avoid this car at all costs during future trips.
Among all the above cars, I will pick the Volvo, if available that is, during my upcoming trips, since overall that was the most satisfying. The Jetta was okay for the most part, except for the extremely artificial steering (probably some kind of electronic steering, trying to simulate the feel of other Teutonic products but not quite succeeding).
Mine has 1800 miles and I've already had trips of 28.8, 29.8, and at one point 31.3 mpg. Adjust down about 0.4 mpg for the optimistic trip computer (per my calculations).
Still, great for what's not even broken in yet.
Glad to hear VCM is more effective with age. I hung out in the Ody threads when it came out and the numbers reported with/without VCM were virtually the same. That's what I meant by "disappointing" because it was the single thing I most looked forward too when the Ody came out.
Yeah it's not fair because the Hi-Lux cost me $15K and the WRX was $24.5K.
The point is whenever anyone buys a car it's an emotional purchase and it's also a financial purchase.
Yes I'm unhappy about a few things that Subaru changed but you know what? It's my money and Subaru wants it as do other car makers.
So while I am the more vocal member on the forum lots of people don't like the styling and the fact that the LSD is gone etc...
But also i don't see a lot of info being posted by anyone that is factual it's some things slowly coming out but. I've owned a LOT of different cars and I don't have to prove that to anyone.
For $25K I really wanted a WRX updated with more performance which it doesn't have. Read up in it if you don't believe me. Also I am still considering buying the car. I looked at quite a few cars also and I am no longer a part of the forums of cars I am not considering buying. I'm not trolling and I'm not a lurker. I post and respond. If the Host doesn't like this I am certain I will get an email telling me to stop posting.
So are you going to buy a 2008 WRX or are you just lurking on a board with no thought of buying what is being talked about? Or are you considering a 2008 WRX?
I mean where i stand is clear, where you stand is not.
I did not know about the 2007 engine changes in the Sienna. My friend's car is a 2006 AWD Sienna and he drives like a grandma most of the time to get his 18-20mpg range on the HIGHWAY (I get better than that in the CITY in the Odyssey with VCM). Also, being a part-time AWD system (I assume), the mileage should be very close to a Front-wheel-drive Sienna (maybe a couple of miles off). But as you say, if they were able to make the Sienna engine magically more efficient in 2007, with the DI, then good for the owners. I think if they were to put on 4-wheel independent suspension and improve the driving dynamics of the Sienna (to at least compare with the Odyssey), I would gladly go for the Sienna but whenever I drive the Sienna, it feels like driving a big rig as opposed to a large car feel in the Odyssey.
Yeah, and a Versa can be had for $12K and will get 35mpg, and is a 4 door hatch just like the WRX, but that still doesn't make them comparable from a categorical standpoint. Most consumers won't be cross-shopping the two, and the same goes for the WRX and your Hilux.
Yes I'm unhappy about a few things that Subaru changed but you know what? It's my money and Subaru wants it as do other car makers.
So while I am the more vocal member on the forum lots of people don't like the styling and the fact that the LSD is gone etc...
How many people don't like the styling and other changes Subaru has made to the car will not ultimately be determined by the loudest voices on a message board - it will be determined by units sold. I wager that the changes will boost WRX sales overall; whether the same people are buying them as bought the current version is not quite as important. As long as they can find a couple new customers for every one that feels abandoned, they're doing ok.
For $25K I really wanted a WRX updated with more performance which it doesn't have. Read up in it if you don't believe me.
From everything I've read, performance seems to have remained about the same. But performance hasn't been one of the complaints about the current model - it is still one of the top performers in its class, and with all of the aftermarket options available it can easily attain whatever level of performance the owner likes. OTOH, the boy-racer image, fit and finish, interior room, etc, were what a lot of shoppers (and owners who have posted on this forum) have found less than desireable about the current model. That is what Subaru set out to improve upon, while maintaining a similar level of performance. A lot of people think they have done so, myself included. If you want more performance, either Subaru (in the form of the STI) or the aftermarket can offer that to you. But in my opinion, focusing on making it faster/sportier wouldn't stand to gain them as many new customers as making it more mature - the people who care solely about its performance are probably already in the fold.
So are you going to buy a 2008 WRX or are you just lurking on a board with no thought of buying what is being talked about? Or are you considering a 2008 WRX?
I mean where i stand is clear, where you stand is not.
I wouldn't be in the market for one for another year or two, but beyond that my fiance's car will need to be replaced and a new Impreza is near the top of the list. Which trim will depend on what suits us best at that time - as the satisfied owner of a Forester XT, naturally I'm drawn by the WRX, but would love to have the diesel as an option as well in a couple years. But for her needs, the 2.5I is probably perfectly capable.
I am perfectly happy with my '06 FXT, and hope not to have to replace it for a long time. Depends on how tempting Subaru makes the '09 Foresters look though...
Doug
True they won't and they will most likely be driving on nice US roads as well. I could have bought a diesel car but the roads are awful here so the truck was more durable and more likely to survive. No chance a Versa would last any length of time here before being beat to pieces by the awful roads.
So it was a matter of neccesity.
How many people don't like the styling and other changes Subaru has made to the car will not ultimately be determined by the loudest voices on a message board - it will be determined by units sold. I wager that the changes will boost WRX sales overall; whether the same people are buying them as bought the current version is not quite as important. As long as they can find a couple new customers for every one that feels abandoned, they're doing ok.
I'm hardly the loudest and I'm certainly not the only one unhappy about certain aspects of the new Impreza. I'm not going to stop posting because you disagree with my opinion. Why don't you become a Host and start a mutual admiration society where everyone agrees on a particular car in everyway? This way you won't have any problem with opinions you don't like?
I thought this group was for discussion but I guess you just want everyone to agree that the WRX is awesome and has no flaws.
Subaru will have sales figures every month. Let's see how they do. Unless you can tell teh future then we have to wait until teh car is actually for sale.
From everything I've read, performance seems to have remained about the same. But performance hasn't been one of the complaints about the current model - it is still one of the top performers in its class, and with all of the aftermarket options
Sorry but you are wrong, lots of bad reviews on the 2007 WRX as it's gotten very dated and not much info on the new 2008 yet.
As far as aftermarket well hell I cay buy a civic and build that into a monster. I'm more concerned about stock with very few if any mods. i'm not 18 anymore and I have no problem with guys modding their cars. I just don't bother and it generally hurts resale.
OTOH, the boy-racer image, fit and finish, interior room, etc, were what a lot of shoppers (and owners who have posted on this forum) have found less than desirable about the current model. That is what Subaru set out to improve upon, while maintaining a similar level of performance. A lot of people think they have done so, myself included. If you want more performance, either Subaru (in the form of the STI) or the aftermarket can offer that to you. But in my opinion, focusing on making it faster/sportier wouldn't stand to gain them as many new customers as making it more mature - the people who care solely about its performance are probably already in the fold.
Sorry but my older WRX was hardly boy racer but at least it looked good. I had the wing deleted as it's non-functional. Yes teh older I want a Camry look-a-like people who want to blend in with teh crowd is who Subaru is going after. That's good for them. I don't think the new WRX will stand out at all unless you light it on fire and drive it around a fire station.
They went from good to bland with that new nose and we will see if it sells them more cars.
Honestly they could have made it look better and left the other bits in to keep teh performance teh same.
If people who already care about performance are already in teh Fold then who are they appealing to their older loyal customers or new ones? the idea is to attract new car buyers who want performance and yet blend in with all the other cars. I don't think it will work out in teh long term but short term it's possible.
I wouldn't be in the market for one for another year or two, but beyond that my fiance's car will need to be replaced and a new Impreza is near the top of the list. Which trim will depend on what suits us best at that time - as the satisfied owner of a Forester XT, naturally I'm drawn by the WRX, but would love to have the diesel as an option as well in a couple years. But for her needs, the 2.5I is probably perfectly capable.
I agree the diesel would be my first pick, but many other companies will have diesels out before Subaru because they are a small company and can't afford to do too much at one time.
The Forester is nice if you need a vehicle like that.
I'm still debating between 5 different cars and all for their own reasons.
On the Armada's version of the VDC, have you ever driven one? They are 4-wheel indy suspension, with quite good handling for a 5100lb vehicle. It's actually fairly similar to a larger version of an outback in terms of dimensions and handling. As I said, the VDC flicked on and off as we carved the icy mountain road, w/o interfereing with the driving characteristics.
-mike
Sure i understand that it's not a locker, but it does help and it is now no longer on the new car. Maybe most people don't need or want it. i do but I know I can't have it.
Not much left to say about the 2008 WRX until it comes out then because all that can be said has been said already.
Once it's released it will no longer be a future vehicle so we won't have to guess and postulate about things as we will have all the info and can drive one.
It doesn't stop the BMW guys tho. The 1 series looks darn nice but price is unknown.
Cheap shot, and uncalled for.
Why don't we wait for actual road tests of US-spec versions before declaring it a winner or loser. Edmunds already has one in their test pool, but can't post anything until August 1 due to a news embargo.
Bob
So it was a matter of neccesity.
Obviously your diesel Hilux is more suited for bad roads than a Nissan Versa, that wasn't the point of my comment. My point was what does the fuel economy of your diesel pickup have to do with a turbocharged sports wagon?
I'm hardly the loudest and I'm certainly not the only one unhappy about certain aspects of the new Impreza. I'm not going to stop posting because you disagree with my opinion. Why don't you become a Host and start a mutual admiration society where everyone agrees on a particular car in everyway? This way you won't have any problem with opinions you don't like? I thought this group was for discussion but I guess you just want everyone to agree that the WRX is awesome and has no flaws.
I never said that you were the loudest or that you were alone in your criticisms, or that I do not find any flaws with the new Impreza. I am not a huge fan of the new styling, but it is perfectly acceptable and would not prevent me from buying one. Sure I wish they'd improved performance a bit; heck, I wish it came w/350hp and still stickered at $24K, but that ain't gonna happen. I'm not complaining about it because I've accepted the fact that Subaru needs to sell cars to the masses, not just us enthusiasts. If I want more performance, I'll go aftermarket just like I've done with my FXT. As a business, I feel that Subaru is doing what they need to do to stay afloat. Could it be better executed? Obviously. But they are heading in a good direction.
-mike
Which is still more than 0% which is what will be in '08. I just trust mechanical things more then electronic at this point.
On the Armada's version of the VDC, have you ever driven one? They are 4-wheel indy suspension, with quite good handling for a 5100lb vehicle. It's actually fairly similar to a larger version of an outback in terms of dimensions and handling. As I said, the VDC flicked on and off as we carved the icy mountain road, w/o interfering with the driving characteristics.
I have towed with one a couple of times over relatively short distances, so not a whole lot of experience. I felt that it did an admirable job of hiding its heft, like the LRs do. That said, 5100lbs 4-5' off the ground isn't like 3500 ~1' off the ground. I think high profile vehicles stand to benefit a great deal from DSC. The MazdaSpeed6 has it as well, and its defeatable.
My truck isn't 4-5' off the ground at all, it's wider, longer, taller than an OB but still similar dimensions proportionally.
I do occassionally turn off the VDC on the Ramada and the ABLS (Anti-lock Brake Limited Slip) doesn't turn off and I can lay a patch with both rear wheels
-mike
I do occassionally turn off the VDC on the Ramada and the ABLS (Anti-lock Brake Limited Slip) doesn't turn off and I can lay a patch with both rear wheels
Nissan Armada — Height: 78.7 in (1999 MM)
According to http://www.answers.com/topic/nissan-armada
So the top is over 6 feet, almost 7.
Ground clearance There is also a high ground clearance (9.9 inches for 2WD models, 10.6 for 4WD models)
The bottom is about a foot (not counting the big heavy wheels).
So 5100 lbs is centered 3-4 off the ground, I was off by a foot. I don't think it changes my point.
Your point is what? All I said that proportionally to the height and weight of the OB the Armada is fairly comprable.
You don't have to agree with me, but I've driven both fairly extensively. The armada is significantly wider and longer than an outback but the handling is significantly similar.
-mike
I don't think one is that similar to the other.
I think the whole conversation was about stability control, and I do agree the OB could use something like that, since it lacks the handling performance of the regular Legacy anyway.
How many of those folks out there poo-pooing the VDC system on the new WRX have thousands and thousands of track miles under their belt? How many hold any certifications for performance driving?
Oh yeah you can poo-poo it all you want, guess what? You'll still have to step up to an STi to get a viscous or mechanical LSD, so it's pretty much mute at this point.
I'm sorry lilengineerboy can't understand how my driving with VDC on my Armada could translate to how the VDC implementation on the WRX might work.
-mike
I think that is exactly the point, they reduced the performance of the pre-existing product with the new version.
I'm sorry lilengineerboy can't understand how my driving with VDC on my Armada could translate to how the VDC implementation on the WRX might work.
I have no issue with DSC/VDC as a safety item, but as a performance item, eh not so much. Having done some track stuff myself and a lot of autocross, braking a wheel that isn't on the ground or is totally unloaded doesn't do a lot for performance one way or the other.
Now as they get to ACTIVE suspensions that can pre-load a sway bar or torsen bar or adjust shock valving or fluid viscosity on the fly and actually IMPROVE the handling of the vehicle instead of dumbing it down, I'm all for that
We race a 1994 Legacy Turbo with no LSD, no VDC, or anything like that, guess what? We still win, because we are good drivers.
The LSD does not add that much of an edge to the car in the real world. If you lose and auto-x without an LSD, you would probably have lost the event with an LSD. Same goes for a track event.
However the VDC system will help sell more cars than the LSD will, and that's what Subaru is in business to do.
-mike
Coming out of "offramp" at Buttonwillow going clockwise, the two open-diff'd FWD cars were fine if I was patient. The weak NX2k did a lot better on corner exit (I could give it gas a lot earlier) because I could put down power sooner.
We race a 1994 Legacy Turbo with no LSD, no VDC, or anything like that, guess what? We still win, because we are good drivers.
When I first started w/autocross, it was one big novice group. That first season, I was beating considerably more advanced hardware. By the next season, my cohort had learned how to drive and the cars actually started to matter. Then tires and shocks and everything the rules let us modify started to matter.
I do agree that driving skill is the biggest variable, once you start to get into a group of people who know what they are doing at least a little bit, the edge is important.
However the VDC system will help sell more cars than the LSD will, and that's what Subaru is in business to do.
I don't know if it will sell a lot more cars or not. Subaru is a niche manufacturer...they are never going to be a Honda or Toyota. They have a loyal (or should I say Loyale) following of many enthusiasts. Most people who cross shop Toyota and Honda don't look at Subaru, so I wouldn't expect a whole lot of conquest sales. And now they are alienating their base customers. I guess we will see how it will play out.
Right now I am leaning towards the '07 Speed6
I guess in quest for capturing larger audience Subaru made yet another compromise.
The guy was so committed to his devine revelations that could not face you after you brought him down. I noticed it happens to many people - they cannot take being told and proven the're wrong.
2018 430i Gran Coupe