2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

aaykay · August 2007

I offered my summer/track tires/wheels (Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R (P225/45R17) on Prodrive P1 17" x 7" wheels) for testing of the 2008 WRX, but I didn't receive any response that we could do it.

True but when a car is modified with a tiresize that is 2 sizes larger than stock and outfitted on aftermarket wheels, it becomes a modified car and you are no longer comparing a factory product to another factory product. People could then try and throw in much stiffer sway bars and STI struts in the front and stiffer shocks in the rear for the Double Wishbone etc. But the point is, it no longer is a factory product and then testing it head-to-head against another factory product would not be an apples-to-apples comparison and thus maybe should be left to our friends from Sport-Compact-car or Grassroots-Motorsports.

But I agree with one of the above posts from Juice that the MS3 should have come with AWD. Even with its Torsen LSD in the front, it still has to manage gobs of HP/Torque being directed to the front wheels, with the rear wheels simply rolling along for the ride. But I guess they wanted to maximize the feature set, including things like HID lighting, high-powered DI Turbo Engine, leather etc AND get it to within a certain price target. I think they have succeeded, based on the fact that for 2008, they have removed the "Limited" tag from the MS3 and it is now a full-fledged production model (20,000 to be made).

I think Subaru should take this as a challenge and do some emergency surgery on the WRX and rename the current "WRX" as the S-GT (as suggested by Bob earlier) and bring out an updated/upgraded/spunkier one, under the WRX brandname. Else the "WRX" brandname will simply get diluted.

ateixeira · August 2007

I think the GT badge is perhaps the only thing almost all of us agree on.

C&D even mentioned that in their review, as well.

Having said that, I'm 39 years old and would much rather have a GT than a WRX. I was 31 years old when I bought my Forester and probably would have made the same choice, GT over WRX. Prior to that, let's see, I was 24 when I bought my 91 Escort GT, and I guess at that age I would have opted for the WRX.

I'm sure Subaru looked at the same thing, there are more buyers that want a refined GT over a raw WRX. Let's see how sales turn out.

C&D also mentioned that with the previous generation, only 40% of Impreza sales were WRXs. Let's see how the split goes for this generation.

aaykay · August 2007

Last weekend, I attended an Autocrossing event here in MN (onlooker not a participant). I had never attended an Autocrossing event till then, even though I had heard a lot about it. Needless to say, I am now hooked.

Basically, on my 4EAT 07 WRX wagon, I have the SPT (Subaru Performance tuning) front and rear strut tower braces, slightly larger SPT rear sway bar (20mm vs the stock 17mm), and 225/45ZR17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on 17x7.5" +53mm offset 2004 STI wheels (slightly wider and lighter than the stock 17x7 WRX wheels).

I don't have any other mods (either engine or suspension). Under what class would my car be able to compete in, if I were to participate in an Autocross event ?

Thanks.

stevecebu · August 2007

I don't have any other mods (either engine or suspension). Under what class would my car be able to compete in, if I were to participate in an Autocross event ?

It depends if it's an SCCA event or some other group. If it's the SCCA you can look it up under www.scca.org
Then it should be listed under solo2 rules which change fairly often.
The front strut brace and non-stock wheels should put you in STS class. Street Touring Street tires. But I could be wrong on that so be sure to look it up or ask at the event and the organizers will know.
it won't matter much until you are good enough to actually be competitive.
You'll be wanting Kuhmo autocross tires tho. They grip tenaciously! I think under STS they are legal to run as they are street legal. You'll chunk your pilots for certain if you push it out there. I prefer running the Kuhmo's as they don't really chunk if you get them heat cycled. Mike is familiar with all this stuff as well. He should have some good answers. Did you take a fun run or just spectate?

aaykay · August 2007

Actually, all I did was watch and left when all the runs were complete. I believe it was an SCCA event, even though it was managed by the local club (mnautox.com).

During the event, there was a Lotus Elise just ripping away and so was an old Civic with pretty much nothing behind the driver's seat and a few Miatas, Integras, Porsche Boxters, WRXs, STis, EVOs, Eclipse GSTs, older Imprezas etc. There were a couple of Corvettes too, which obviously were out of their element in such a course. There was a LGT wagon too, which looked a bit unwieldy and big and had a tough time maneuvering through the cones.

stevecebu · August 2007

Actually, all I did was watch and left when all the runs were complete. I believe it was an SCCA event, even though it was managed by the local club (mnautox.com).

Ok if you go to www.scca.org
You will be able to get all the info you need as well as all the info about your local region.
So they should be able to tell you all about local events and driving schools etc...

During the event, there was a Lotus Elise just ripping away and so was an old Civic with pretty much nothing behind the driver's seat and a few Miatas, Integras, Porsche Boxters, WRXs, STis, EVOs, Eclipse GSTs, older Imprezas etc. There were a couple of Corvettes too, which obviously were out of their element in such a course. There was a LGT wagon too, which looked a bit unwieldy and big and had a tough time maneuvering through the cones.

Yeah, good times!

I've seen all kinds of stuff running we even had A-Mod cars in our region and even old VW rabbits that were stripped of everything.
The whole gammit of vehicles and the only problem was so many people would run that there were no fun runs. Pretty much get there at 7am and leave at 6pm if you are lucky!
Great fun tho.
I've seen BIG vehicles running and honestly I can say that Autocross is not the venue for some cars but of course they have fun but those old muscle cars are HUGE and LONG compared to the small nimble stuff. The thing is the SCCA uses 2 different times Raw time and PAX time. They both matter but PAX time is adjusting the time for your class of car.
Personally I'd love to do Rally Cross. But it is so hard to do with only 1-2 events in our region a year.
Probably run an older Mazda 323 AWD, cheap enough if you roll it which in RallyCross is likely if you overcook the corners. I hesitate to bring it to the attention of my wife who is now looking over my shoulder and wanting to know what RallyCross is.
Well hopefully we can afford it.

She likes to drift and smoke the tires and a lot of things girls generally don't like to do. But Rally is expensive compared to auto-x. harder to find sites to run at as well.

Anyway you will have a blast at an auto-x believe me, and try and run in the novice class if your region has one. That way you will have a chance at some trophies and they will help you out a lot more since you are new. Just ask about the Novice class.

paisan · August 2007

Would you guys like to start an Auto-x discussion over in the motorsports section? Then we can continue this discussion in detail

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

aaykay · August 2007

Great stuff. Thank you.

I will check out scca.org.

aaykay · August 2007

Never been to the motorsports section yet. But will do so and start a topic. Thanks for the heads-up.

subytrojan · August 2007

Those are good points, aaykay/akoshy (hehehe). It wouldn't hurt to think about the fact that *many* WRX owners swap their wheels/tires out. I would guess 30-40%, which would be an amount too sizable to ignore.

My wheel size is the same as stock. You can't blame me for putting more tire on each corner. This would be a "tire equalizer." For what it's worth, the WRX and Mazdaspeed3 are already not a good apples-to-apples comparison out of the box.

I agree with you regarding the WRX/S-GT moniker.

aaykay · August 2007

It wouldn't hurt to think about the fact that *many* WRX owners swap their wheels/tires out. I would guess 30-40%, which would be an amount too sizable to ignore.

Yup, yours truly included in the wheel/tire swapped category. I have the 2004 STi's 17x7.5 +53mm offset BBS forged wheels, shod with 225/45ZR17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires. Also switched the wagon's 17mm rear sway bar with the 20mm STI pink version from SPT/Subaru, along with a SPT/Subaru front strut tower brace. The SPT/Subaru rear strut tower brace has also been ordered and should get to me shortly.

I am thinking of switching my stock struts/springs with the SPT (V7 STi) wagon struts/springs (which do not lower the car) obtainable from Subaru through SPT, and I should be done with my mods. As you can see, I am more of a suspension guy (with preference towards OEM/Subaru products) than an engine/power kind of person, since I think from a power perspective, the 07 WRX has more than enough oomph for my purposes.

subytrojan · August 2007

Very nice, aaykay. My 'Rex is on Prodrive springs on stock struts with Group N STI strut tops. I have JDM STI pink springs and Koni Sport adjustable strut inserts (just shipped yesterday) on order.

Do you have gold STi wheels? If so, are they in good condition and are you willing to sell and ship them to California?

)

rsholland · August 2007

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3191

This probably gives us the best indication to date of what the street STI will look like.

Bob

aaykay · August 2007

Actually my rims are silver.

I am on the lookout for a set of JDM STi wagon pinks too. Those are supposed to be stiffer than the SPT version.

I also have another set of prior year JDM STi optional 17x8 5x100 +53mm offset, Forged BBS STi wheels (Silver again), in the classic BBS mesh pattern (looks like BBS RE). Those are around 2 lbs heavier and obviously wider than the 04 STi rims but I got to say, those are BOMB-PROOF. But since I am not putting any wider than 225s on my wagon, I think the rim width is not being fully utilized, even though I don't want to give them up, since you don't find too many of the 17x8 rims with a Subaru perfect +53 offset, perfectly hubcentric to the non-STI Imprezas. I sourced them from one of the nabisco vendors. The photo angles are not very good but the following gives you an idea:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/pictures;jsessionid=5CC251253D945CA5B4BA3005C- - - 194097D?a=67b0de21b353bd858451&sid=0AZtmrRyzcNmLiw

I might have to sell off one of these sets, depending on which I decide to keep. Let us see.

aaykay · August 2007

I think overall it looks very aggressive, even though I am not too fond of the way the front fenders don't flow into the body. Probably for cost reasons (to reuse the regular Impreza front door panels), the front fender comes to an abrupt halt at the point the front door begins...the fender looks almost like a tack on (can be observed in the 2nd photograph). One good thing is that they seem to have gotten rid of the chrome strip that connects the 2 tail lights.

Also, hopefully in the road going version, the wing would be resized to a more cop-friendly version...maybe provide the WRX wing as an option.

But this interpretation is definitely better than the regular Impreza....got to give them credit for that.

dstew1 · August 2007

The fact that the flare stops before the door will probably make this an easy modification for any WRX owners who want to swap out their fenders for the more aggressive STI look. All they'd have to replace is each fender, since the door is the same. (this also assumes the rest of the front end fits together identically between the WRX and STI).

There was actually a guy on the Forester board with an '05 XT who replaced his entire front end for the '07 XT Sports fascia... required new fenders, hood, grill, and front bumper... looked good, but that's a lot of $$$ to spend.

jeffmc · August 2007

An insider's tease of information on nabisco was that you wouldn't be able to "build up" a WRX into an STI. Can't wait to find out what all the differences will be. I think this will make a sharp STI. I actually like that the flares stop because they sort of mirror the Subaru World Rally Team logo.

ateixeira · August 2007

That's pretty bad [non-permissible content removed].

Reminds me of some LeMans cars. :shades:

ateixeira · August 2007

Bob - can you e-mail me bigger size pics? I'd like them for my wall paper.

The more I look at it, the more I like it.

Note the rear - they delete that chrome strip I said I didn't like.

The way the front fenders wrap around the front makes me think ALMS.

The rear flares are almost 911-like.

Wall paper size images PLEASE! :shades:

nagatahawk · August 2007

I have test driven both of these. and was lucky enought to attend the Subaru 2008 WRX test drive at Santa Anita Race Track.

I test drove the Speed 3 at street legal speeds. Even at normal driving you can feel the torgue of the motor pull the body. I really like the looks, style, wheels, suspension etc. only draw back they did not make very many of them. currently dealers are in short supply.

The 2008 WRX is an awsome car. it felt more refined and with awd the there was no torgue steer. The suspension is on the soft side. although it would be a very comfortable daily driver. acceleration was not much faster than my BMW 325i and ride was very similar. cornering is another story.

They allowed us to drive full throttle on the course. this car sticks like like you would not believe. I cannot believe that the Speed 3 can out handle this car. if the Suby is driven correctly. this car can hang with any car.
the technique is to keep the throttle pegged. the rear end sticks and the front end turns in very nicely.

I believe that the driver who wrote the article comparing these two cars was experiencing drifting rather than pushing. This car can execute a 180 turn at full throttle at very high speed. 80 to 90 mph and stay on the course, it will drift but no push.

I can't immagine what the 2008 STI will be capable of doing.
straight line speed not withstanding. these cars are truely great road machines .

I really like both of these cars. For my purposes the WRX would easier to drive. it rode similar to my bmr, and the shifter was way better. if the Speed 3's were not in short supply, this would still be the best bang for the buck.

ateixeira · August 2007

Thanks for sharing your impressions.

Drove on a track, you lucky duck! How did you get invited?

Your impressions seem to mesh with what we've read so far, i.e. the results show fast slaloms and good grip, often better than the old WRX, but lots more body roll and a softer ride.

paisan · August 2007

The 08 STi probably won't handle well at all, since there won't be one til 09

-mike

stevecebu · August 2007

The 08 STi probably won't handle well at all, since there won't be one til 09

Has that been confirmed? I'm just wondering what the release dates on the STi look like, early 2009 or later?

ateixeira · August 2007

They sure got the WRC car ready quick...

nagatahawk · August 2007

I went to the Sabaru webcite. and signed up. we got brochurs t shirts and other little goodies. I guess it was word of mouth type of thing.

the STI will be out next Summer. It should have fender flares gold wheels brembos etc wow to handle like that and have straightaway speed! you can have this car right now in the form of the legacy Spec. B. same engine/platform/suspension different body shape. I believe they race this car quite successfully in SCCA races.or somebodies races.

wn

ateixeira · August 2007

Yeah, Road & Track tested a spec.B against german rival and the Subaru lapped the quickest. Summer tires didn't hurt, for sure.

jeffmc · August 2007

According to a dealers memo quoted on nasioc today, Bluetooth will (finally!) be available on the '08 Impreza with Navigation.

This leaves me with one question: Will it be World Rally Blue tooth?

ateixeira · August 2007

Cool. Toyota just added that to 2008 Siennas as well, so I missed that boat.

paisan · August 2007

you can have this car right now in the form of the legacy Spec. B. same engine/platform/suspension different body shape. I believe they race this car quite successfully in SCCA races.or somebodies races.

Actually the Spec B doesn't a lot in common with the '09 STi...

Different rear suspension
Different engine/ecu/etc.
Different Brakes.

From what I've heard though the '09 STi will be released after Jan 1 and be shipping in Summer of '08 as a MY '09

-mike

paisan · August 2007

Was working down in Cherry Hill today and Frank and I had a circuit we had to check that went right by SOA and by the "museum" of Subies. We actually stumbled on the warehouse while working. Can't wait to go down and inspect their transformers which are actually on their property

-mike

rsholland · August 2007

Joe Spitz does a heck of a job chronicling Subarus. Here he has images on all the various functions of the NAV unit on the new WRX/2.5i Premium models w/NAV.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/nav2.html

Bob

jeffmc · August 2007

Joe's the man! :shades:

This is a different nav system than Tribeca, correct? Extremely pleased to see they've added Spanish language to the English & French that are offered on Tribeca. You can control the key chime & the defroster timers? How cool is that! Looks well thought-out.

I wonder how the SRS-WOW sound system works w/the Nav control... I know you can't get the CD changer if you get Nav, but is it still the SRS-WOW upgraded audio system on the single disc setup? Also wonder if the new optional iPod interface kit will work with the Nav. It'd be a pity to lose the premium audio & iPod interface if you choose a model with Nav.

tgkoenigsegg · August 2007

I wonder if they will update any of the turbo engines because I heard the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart will have around 230 hp.

subytrojan · August 2007

Magic 8 Ball says, "Doubtful."

aaykay · August 2007

Seems like the 08 Imprezas (including the OBS) are not rated for towing at all, unlike the 2000 lbs towing capacity of the 07 version !

Also, as far as the EAT version is concerned, the WRX 4EAT is no longer VTD and thus the 08 WRX 4EAT no longer has a Center Differential. So now it drives with a 90/10 Front-wheel-biased torque split, when compared to the 02-07 which drove with a Rear-wheel-biased 45/55 Torque split. So unlike the 02-07 4EAT WRX which is permanently in AWD, the 08 can be made into a full-time Front-wheel-drive, by pulling a fuse. This was a significant difference between the 02-07 4EAT WRX and the other Imprezas....only the WRX came with a Center Differential, while the other 4EAT Auto Imprezas did not. Now that difference has disappeared in the 08 !

The Cargo capacity with the seats up, has reduced from 27 to 19 and with the rear seats folded flat, has reduced from around 62 cu.Ft of storage in the 02-07 wagons, to 44 cu.Ft in the 08 Hatch.

So it seems like pretty significant changes (not all for the better) have taken place during the 08 re-design.

stevecebu · August 2007

Seems like the 08 Imprezas (including the OBS) are not rated for towing at all, unlike the 2000 lbs towing capacity of the 07 version !

I'm sorry but as I read each new thing about Subaru and not just in this forum the picture becomes more and more clear that Subaru has made too many changes. We were considering a base Impreza but with zero ability to tow plus it's now pretty much a FWD I can't see the logic in buying the car. I might buy a leftover 2007 but I just don't see Subaru as a viable option like I used to.
The Mazda 3 looks good and it's also a FWD.
The STi is going to be either really awesome or watered down also. I can't really see paying the money for Subaru any more. Perhaps if/when they redesign the car again it will be worth another look. but for now it seems like you aren't getting much bang for your buck. :sick:

rsholland · August 2007

Word has it that the WRX automatic no longer has VTD, which means it's now like other non-VTD models which are FWD-biased in their front/rear power default. On previous VTD auto WRXs the power default was 45/55.

The good news is that most people don't buy WRX automatics, and now this is even more reason not to buy a WRX auto.

Bob

dino001 · August 2007

You miss the point entirely, Bob. All new styling, softer steering/suspension, better interior upgrades were made to supposedly bring mainstream "semi-premium" compact buyer. Subaru pretty much said "screw you enthusiasts, if you want something more shell out 35K and buy our new STI - we want Joe Schmo to buy new Impreza, including WRX". Many of those people simply can't drive manuals and have to get automatics. With the previous AWD system WRX was at least unique in the market - there was nothing else like it, even with that pittyful 4-speed AT.

All Auto WRX became now is a just fast car with really antiquated transmission, nice but not stunning interior, poor gas mileage (premium required) and with system that helps you a little in snow or would transfer power back if you launch too hard. All that for 26-28 grand, depending if you want some contemporary conveniences or not. You got to be kidding me! For that kind of money you can already have real piece of tech with DSG, better gas mileage and much better styling (mind you A3 starts 25.5K DSG adds something like 1-1.5 grand?) that at least does not pretend to be anything else. Or you could save a bunch and buy admittedly slower but much nicer Mazda3. Or GTI. Or add some money and get yourself a TSX. Or whatever else is in the market, as it makes much more sense than that POS.

Oh boy - no I really see $1000 minimum cashback as early as January or March. Especially that the manual version will also have an uphill battle for existence. SRT-4 for around 23K with more equipment, same with Speed3. And Raliart is going to kill them.

Legend reborn fiasco continues....

saedave · August 2007

So unlike the 02-07 4EAT WRX which is permanently in AWD, the 08 can be made into a full-time Front-wheel-drive, by pulling a fuse.

Real world fuel economy will improve slightly with the 90/10% split. The ability to not require a flat bed truck for a tow is a significant advantage that many potential purchasers will like. The differentiation from the STI is thus increased...permitting a profitable greater price spread. CAFE problems may have contributed to the 90/10% change.

subytrojan · August 2007

I read the split is 60/40 F/R for the 4AT at www.imprezaenvy.com last night.

jeffmc · August 2007

^Big difference over 90/10. Perhaps that's enough to address Steve's complaint of being pretty much FWD bias. I don't recall seeing a default 60/40 F/R split w/Subaru before... just 90/10 & 45/55.

subytrojan · August 2007

Since SOA's web site is weak sauce, I had to turn to our friends up north again for solid 60/40 split info you all can easily see.

http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.asp?WebPageID=6728&Range=Impreza&ModelYear=2008&Web- - SiteID=282

volkov · August 2007

Much better web-site! Yep that's what we gain for the privilege of paying $8000 more for the same vehicle.

rsholland · August 2007

Very interesting. There had been some debate as to whether it was a 90/10 or a 80/20 split. Now we know it it's 60/40. I checked the Forester and it's the same deal. The Outback description, however, is less clear because of the different AWD systems used. No front/rear split percentages were mentioned.

I wonder if this is new, or if it's been this way for some time.

Bob

saedave · August 2007

Bob,
60/40 would certainly be nicer for both handling and traction. Can anyone confirm that pulled fuse = FWD?
Dave

dino001 · August 2007

Just got an email. The offer is amazing - over 2 grand above what I would expect from dealer on trade (12700 for '03 WRX wagon). Now, if those new Imprezas had sunroof 6 speed tranny and HID, I would probably run to the dealer today even with those clear taillights.

subearu · August 2007

yep, more about it here: http://www.subaru.com/misc/gtp/2007/index.jsp?from=homeTout

-Brian

aaykay · August 2007

Hi, I saw that website too and some of what is mentioned there is pure hogwash. Case in point is:

-------------
Automatic Transmission with SPORTSHIFTTM that incorporates an advanced multi-plate transfer clutch centre differential for smooth and sure-footed acceleration.
----------------

There is nothing called a "multi-plate transfer clutch centre differential". In fact, there is NO CENTER DIFFERENTIAL in the non-VTD Automatics. If they can make such blunders, I wonder if the 60/40 is also something that somebody pulled out of thin air, without any input from their engineering group.

Going through the mechanical aspect, why would a center diff lacking AWD system, be constantly driving with 40% of the power being transferred through the clutch plates to the rear ? Why be wearing out the clutch plates needlessly ? I think this is pure nonsense too. It might become a 60/40 under certain conditions (which is probably what the writer at the website spun to arrive at the 60/40), when more power needs to be transferred to the rear but I would wager that this is a 90/10 "default" system (simply because there is no center diff), with the little dribble of power going to the rear in the "default" mode, purely intended to prime the transfer mechanism to speed up the power transfer process, when it actually transfers power rearward.

I believe the Acura SH-AWD system drives with something like 60/40 as the default but the significant difference here is that it HAS A center differential. Thus there is nothing wearing out, when driving around with the 60/40, since the split is pre-decided by the setting of the center diff....big difference from the Center Diff lacking non-VTD EAT system.

paisan · August 2007

1st Gen ATs had a 90/10 up til about the mid-90s. Then they switched to an 80/20. Mind you this is only the initial values for the split. As soon as you apply throttle input the torque is shifted toward the rear etc. The advantage of the system is it can do 80/20 to 20/80 if need be.

Having HPDEd my 92 SVX which had 80/20 with a mechanical rear LSD and Road Raced my 96 Impreza L which had the 80/20 also, I can say that the torque split did not effect the handling significantly enough to make a difference, even in race conditions.

-mike

aaykay · August 2007

Going by what the new "WRX" has turned out to be, I would go back to Bob's suggestion to re-name this product as the Impreza S-GT or so.

And then, bring out a credible, slightly hard-core version, essentially a toned down model that can reside comfortably between this "WRX" and the upcoming STI, and name that model as the "WRX". Hopefully such a model will spank cheaper FWD whipper-snappers like the MS3 and not have to blush and pretend to look the other way, when an MS3 pulls beside it. The "WRX" brand-name, especially an 08 introduction, truly deserves this measure to be taken. They should not hesitate to offer such a model, a 280HP/280Torque engine with a firm but compliant suspension, tuned to out-handle anything else within its price-range. The STI obviously will come with a 330HP/350Torque engine and many other bells/whistles that would be exclusive to that model and thus would make zero compromises from its max-performance mission.

The people looking for "refinement" can spring for the soft S-GT and the ones on the lookout for a factory-tuned high-performance model can then spring for the WRX, without the big expense or other ultra-hardcore compromises of a full-bore STI.

2008 Subaru Impreza WRX

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