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Comments
HONDA knows about this problem and they have done NOTHING for the last 3 years. If I had the time, I would take a civil suite against Honda to do a PROPER RECALL and do a FIX on all CRVs from 2005 to 2007 like most North American car manufacturers. Who said Japanese quality is better? I would go with a NA car that costs less and who actually do recalls on design and safety problems, I did have my share of problem on GM but this is a different story again.
The fact that HONDA have not done anything other than cover it under good will coverage if you complain about this after warrantee coverage. I will finish my lease on my 2006 CRV and never buy a Honda again,
At what speed do you drive at idle? I would imagine that the engine is lugging because of the incorrect gear selection (if you drive stick), ot faulty automatic transmission. Probably nothing to do with the rear differential.
HONDA knows about this problem and they have done NOTHING for the last 3 years.
This design dates back to the 1985 Honda Civic Wagon AWD and has proven it self to be pretty much bullet proof. Problem is that the bean counters and marketers at Honda USA got a hold of the Owner's Manual and changed the maintenance schedule (without having technical knowledge) to make it more appealing to the masses by lowering the maintenance costs. The design is fine, it is the people who have nothing to do with the vehicle that messed it up.
I will finish my lease on my 2006 CRV and never buy a Honda again,
What are you going to get next?
Toyota? Engine sludge.
Dodge/Crysler/Jeep? Premature engine wear and tranny failures.
Kia/Hyundai? Questionable and dated technical designs with good looking sheetmetal. Still not sure about long term reliability. Resale value is non-existent.
Chevy/Ford? Not even in the same league as far as quality of materials and design process, as well as much much lower real world fuel economy than EPA estimates.
So, what will it be?
Maybe a dispoable Chinese car like a Cherry (soon to be sold under Chrysler brand), but will most likely result in hundreds of recalls due to incompliance with the US regulations.
Good luck.
If anyone figures out how to make a car with square wheel, it will be Honda.
They have been testing Fuel Cell vehicles in Buffalo for the last 12 months, and I have to say, that they are impressive.
And, yes, as an R&D person my self, I have great respect for a company that puts real R&D above all. Honda products may not have eye appeal, or great marketing support, but they sure are great technological breakthroughs. There are very few companies out there that value R&D and science more than the hype, I mean marketing.
However, I hope this quick fix really solves the problem. So far it is quiet but it's only been a couple hundred miles since the flush. I'm also disappointed that Honda is not contacting affected CRV owner and being proactive in taking care of customers.
What are you going to get next?
Toyota? Engine sludge.
Dodge/Crysler/Jeep? Premature engine wear and tranny failures.
Kia/Hyundai? Questionable and dated technical designs with good looking sheetmetal. Still not sure about long term reliability. Resale value is non-existent.
Chevy/Ford? Not even in the same league as far as quality of materials and design process, as well as much much lower real world fuel economy than EPA estimates.
So, what will it be?
I disagree about Kia/Hyundai - Their last 2 year models kick [non-permissible content removed] and is the best value for the money in terms of reliability. Hyundai had the bad image but Kia was always a reliable car. Since Hyundai bought out Kia, Hyunday quality has gone up.
My first choice is still Toyota then Hyundai/Kia and then NA. Honda is last and I think those of you that have been brainwashed by Honda marketing are paying Toyota level pricing for a piece of crap.
I agree that both Ford have turned around quality and GM is trying. Chrysler is in trouble. They all do recalls on real design problems and fix it. Honda does not.
That is why I will never Honda again.
My first choice is still Toyota then Hyundai/Kia and then NA. Honda is last and I think those of you that have been brainwashed by Honda marketing are paying Toyota level pricing for a piece of crap.
Define "kick [non-permissible content removed]" please.
The engine technology used by Kia/Hyundai is at least 10 years behind Honda. Yes, I agree they are dirt cheap, but so are the lead laced toys from China. What is your point? Cheap is good? Sometimes, inexpensive quality product is what is good. And this is where Honda steps in, inexpensive while quality engineered, designed and manufactured.
As to "piece of crap" define piece of crap?
I see 10-20 year old Hondas running around every day. Heck, I have a 1988 Honda Prelude sitting in the garage that is my summer car. It starts every morning, and runs like a clock. The 1983 Honda Magna is still like new, even though it is 24 years old. Starts on the first crank and still squeezes out 0-60 in 3.3 seconds.
Show me an example of 20 year old Hyundai/Kia that is still in one piece, and by one piece I don't mean compressed by the car crusher.
Maybe because Honda makes such crap all the emergency responders use Honda generators, and other Honda power equipment. Yeap, because it is all piece of crap.
Don't waist your breath-- Anyone who butts the word "crap" against anything manufactured by Honda is simply uninformed and beyond hope
Ted
Dean
Do you guys work for Honda?
I leased Honda thinking it had good quality. I was SHOCKED to find that they have this Rear Differential problems in 2005, 2006 and EVEN MORE SO in 2007. You go to any Honda dealer service rep and they know about the problem but you have to ask for service and the they quietly do the work. Well I had the rear differential flushed 3 times at 25K and at 37K KM I now have the problem again. I have a 2006.
The fact of the matter is that HONDA knows about this problem and it is up to
the owner to complain about this. When I asked about what caused this
they claimed that their is a breather hole that allowed water to get into the
Rear differential fluid.
Come ON!
HONDA knew about this problem since 2005 and have done NOTHING
to fix it for 2006, and got worse in 2007. I will be surprised if HONDA will fix it
for 2008 as they just came out with the new drive train in 2007 and I do not expect
Honda to change 2008 drastically.
As stated earlier, NA manufacturers do recalls and fix problems. HONDA does not
and you have to ask for it. THIS IS WHY I CALL IT CRAP.
About Kia and Hyundai, their quality is up significantly in the last 2 years and in
10 years I expect that you will see as many Kias and Hyundais as the Hondas.
I will not buy Honda again until I see them proactively address this FUNDAMENTAL
drive train issue in their Rear Differential problem.
For our friend thinking between Subaru and Honda, I would go with the Subaru.
Toyota first and then Korean vehicles and then North American cars and then Honda.
My CRV was the one that locked up at 60 mi/hr. I've had two flushes and burnishing of the clutches even after the new differential was put in.
No, I do not work for Honda, but I have driven a Honda/Acura since 1977--Let’s see I'm not a mathematician but that sounds like 30 years of data to draw on. With that in mind, I will sing the praises of Honda till the cows come home
I am perfectly willing to admit that my 06 CRV has disappointed me in two areas: The Rear Diff problem and gas mileage, plus the display readouts are ridiculously small
Honda has definitely not been as transparent about the rear diff issues as one would want or expect, but on the other hand, the problem while significant to those of us who have endured it does not seem to be as endemic as this thread would have one believe.
After my first flush this summer, I repeated again last week (The moan had not returned) but in the spirit of “better safe than sorry” I went for another round of Dual Pump II
I am interested in how your case evolves so please continue to keep us posted
Good luck and Happy New Year!
t
They actually tried to claim this is routine maintenance every 15k miles so it was typical that my '06 with 17k miles needed the $65 fluid change.
Do you guys work for Honda?
I leased Honda thinking it had good quality. I was SHOCKED to find that they have this Rear Differential problems in 2005, 2006 and EVEN MORE SO in 2007. You go to any Honda dealer service rep and they know about the problem but you have to ask for service and the they quietly do the work. Well I had the rear differential flushed 3 times at 25K and at 37K KM I now have the problem again. I have a 2006.
The fact of the matter is that HONDA knows about this problem and it is up to
the owner to complain about this. When I asked about what caused this
they claimed that their is a breather hole that allowed water to get into the
Rear differential fluid.
Come ON!
HONDA knew about this problem since 2005 and have done NOTHING
to fix it for 2006, and got worse in 2007. I will be surprised if HONDA will fix it
for 2008 as they just came out with the new drive train in 2007 and I do not expect
Honda to change 2008 drastically.
As stated earlier, NA manufacturers do recalls and fix problems. HONDA does not
and you have to ask for it. THIS IS WHY I CALL IT CRAP.
About Kia and Hyundai, their quality is up significantly in the last 2 years and in
10 years I expect that you will see as many Kias and Hyundais as the Hondas.
I will not buy Honda again until I see them proactively address this FUNDAMENTAL
drive train issue in their Rear Differential problem.
For our friend thinking between Subaru and Honda, I would go with the Subaru.
Toyota first and then Korean vehicles and then North American cars and then Honda
I don't work for Honda, I wish I did, but they never responded to my resume...
But, I know a good design when I see one.
The design of the rear differential calls for 15,000 mile fluid changes. However, as you may know, most companies these days it is not the guys who know (engineeres and scientists) but it is the guys who count (accountants) and the puffers (marketing) that run the show. Hence the manual stating the longer intervals. Honda is trying to prolong the life of the fluid by replacing it with a Synthetic Dual Pump II, which may give it 30,000 miles, but I still doubt that 60,000 mile intervals are possible.
I replace the fluid in my CR-V on an annual basis, along with semi-annual caliper slider pins lubrication, and other maintenance items...
Service knew the problem as soon as I descrebed it.
Problem he said is a faulty design going back to at least '04,s. The contamination in fluid is METAL SHAVINGS.
They flushed the differential in all gears with parking brake on per the service bullitan. I asked since this is a known problem since '04 if it has been corrected. He said he hasn't seen any new ones coming in. DUH!.
Of course calling Honda customer service they do not claim any knowledge of the problem.
I asked if this would have to be done at another 50,000 miles, and yes, "probably".
If course my concern is metal shavings in a 50,000 mile car.
Do you know of any class action lawsuits in the works?
I just took delivery of a 2008 CR-V 4WD EX last Saturday (12/29/07). Vehicle is a 12/07 production date from the East Liberty plant. I've just made it through the break-in period (600 miles) this morning so keeping my fingers crossed and will be monitoring this thread on an ongoing basis. I'll also check with my dealer to see if they know about this and will report back.
Regards,
David
FYI check out this Service Bulletin from April 07—(Not 07-024)
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-021.PDF
t
Edited to include: Also check out this thread
http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=23290&page=2&highlight=crv+rear- +differential
So when the manager at Piazza Honda told me that these are not public information and stuff on the internet are lies, I should have just walked away.
Thanks for letting me vent...let's keep up the progress info on this problem!
:shades:
I do notice a big difference since I replaced the fluid for the second time-the entire "holding back" phenomenon has disappeared--
I guess when Honda is good they're really good, but when they're bad......well you get the point
Cheers
t
AFAIK, It is synthetic version of the old fluid. And DPF II replaces DPF. I would assume that if Honda is phasing out DPF in favor of DPF II, that it is compatible with the old differentials.
Old differentials were designed to work with CVT fluid, which was then replaced by the DPF.
FYI check out this Service Bulletin from April 07—(Not 07-024)
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-021.PDF
Interesting TSB.
Just another reason why I never buy first year models. I usually buy them after the mid-model make over. You get the best of everything that way.
I test drove a 2008 CR-V this week and mentioned the issue to the salesman who said he knew nothing about it but after he "researched" it told me point blank that unless you have it serviced and flushed every 15k you will have this problem with your vehicle. This will probably be at your cost as it is a preventative measure.
I really like the CR-V but am concerned about this problem for the future.
I test drove a 2008 CR-V this week and mentioned the issue to the salesman who said he knew nothing about it but after he "researched" it told me point blank that unless you have it serviced and flushed every 15k you will have this problem with your vehicle. This will probably be at your cost as it is a preventative measure.
I really like the CR-V but am concerned about this problem for the future.
You should get it covered up to 60,000 miles under the powertrain warranty, and then it will be owner's responsibility.
Just like with every other vehicle on the road, you need to maintain them. The engine oil and filters, tires and brakes, coolant, brake fluid everything will need to be replaced.
I'm only being a little bit facetious.
Healing Hazy Headlamps
I test drove a 2008 CR-V this week and mentioned the issue to the salesman who said he knew nothing about it but after he "researched" it told me point blank that unless you have it serviced and flushed every 15k you will have this problem with your vehicle. This will probably be at your cost as it is a preventative measure.
I really like the CR-V but am concerned about this problem for the future.
You should get it covered up to 60,000 miles under the powertrain warranty, and then it will be owner's responsibility.
Just like with every other vehicle on the road, you need to maintain them. The engine oil and filters, tires and brakes, coolant, brake fluid everything will need to be replaced.
Hey Blueiedgod, I MUST ADMIT THAT YOU WORK FOR HONDA OR ARE BEING PAID BY HONDA MARKETING TO SAY WHAT YOU SAY, FOR THE RECORD, THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL STATES NO REAR DIFFERENTIAL FLUID CHANGE EVERY 60,000KM. WHAT THE SALESMAN DID SAY IS THAT
IT MUST BE CHANGED EVERY 15K. HONDA HAD THIS PROBLEM SINCE 2005
AND HAVE DONE NOTHING TO PROACTIVELY FIX THE DESIGN BY A RECALL. WHAT IS REALLY UGLY IS THAT HONDA KNEW ABOUT THIS IN
2005, 2006 and 2007 CRV'S AND HAVE NOT CORRECTED FOR 2008.
WHAT A PIECE OF JUNK THAT HONDA IS MAKING NOW.
For 1259alisa, I had my 2006 CRV services at 27,000KM by the dealership under
the drive train warranty, Yes, the Service manager knew about the problem and had
an answer for me immediately. There should be a class action suite against HONDA on this and the guys that they hired to make ridiculous comments on this
blog pages.
Let's focus on the issues and avoid jumping to baseless conclusions about each other.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Almost all of your 33 posts are about how this rear differential issue is so bad and how class action needs to be taken. Try talking to honda if you have problems. If that doesn't work and you think Hondas are such junk sell yours and be thankful they hold there value so well. If it was a domestic that you owned you would be lucky to get 1/3 what you paid for a 2006. Then you can get a new car and I'm guessing it will also have 1 or 2 problems of one form or another.
If this problem isn't happening to your car or if you don't have any constructive advice, this forum is not for you. You should consider spending your time helping others where you can. This apparently is not a good choice for you to waste your expertise on.
That is good advice but I don't see how minimizing or dismissing another person's concerns on the basis of "all vehicles have issues" is helpful. You can always scroll past messages you aren't interested in reading.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
a) I wish I worked for Honda.
b) I wish they paid me for being loyal fan
c) What's with the yelling?
I despise marketers, most of the time they are incompetent morons who think they know it all. I wish that marketers were required to have at least a bachelors in Engineering or any science before being allowed to work for any technology company. The nonsense that comes out of their mouth and off their pens will make anyone with a little bit of understang how things work cringe.
The manual does indeed says that the fluid needs to be replaced at 60,000 mile intervals. But, anyone with any technical understanding will see that there is no way it will last that long. It is pure marketing ploy to get CR-V listed as low 5 year cost of ownership. The true DPF longevity is about 15,000 mile, and Honda technitians know it. The TSB even suggests more frequent fluid replacements. The rear end on the Cr-V has been around since 1985 in its basic form, and always required 15,000 mile service intervals.
If someone read in the manual that the fluid was not scheduled to be replaced for 60,000 miles, but their dealer suggested earlier replacement, one would logically request such replacement to be performed under warranty (gratis), since it is not in the scheduled maintenance. However, most people fail to read or read but don't retain the information from the manual, and usually don't fight for what is truly theirs.
So, what is your engineering background that you know for sure that it is a design flaw?
I used to own a Pontiac Transport for 10 years and I never replaced the differential fluid. Every 15,000 miles change in differential fluid shows that HONDA differential design is a flaw and is a piece of junk.
So, what is your engineering background that you know for sure that it is a design flaw?
Yes I do have an Engineering Degree and an MBA. When my 2006 Honda CRV was in for rear differential fluid change, I asked the service tech and the mechanic what is the cuase of the problem. They referenced a Breather hole that allow contamination through water leaking through this hole. This was in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now in 2008. Now if Honda engineers know this why in the world are they not fixing this? I think they designed in this flaw to get more service to the service department.
Go to: http://www.autoblog.com/
The 'Send us a tip' link is in the center of their banner. Go get 'em, make some noise. If they post something about our problem we can note it here and stop the inundation.
Try in a small corner first to see the result. It is the Cascade milky gel like. A green color bottle. Use a Q-Tip to put a thin layer and wait about 10 mins then hose it off with warm water. I can remove old tea stains on my sink easily with this method.
If Pontiac was so great, why did you get rid of it, and why not get another great Pontiac as replacement?
They referenced a Breather hole that allow contamination through water leaking through this hole. This was in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now in 2008. Now if Honda engineers know this why in the world are they not fixing this? I think they designed in this flaw to get more service to the service department.
Yes, you have figured out Honda. They could not coax people into the dealerships, so they built a device that will surely guarantee them a stream of maintenance income. Oh, wait, Honda Corporate does not get the money from local dealer from the maintenance revenue. In fact, the only money any automotive manufacturer gets from the dealer is the invoice pricing, when the dealer buys the vehicle from the manufacturer. Your MBA should come in handy right now to figure out Honda Franchise contracts with the dealers.
If you look at the blue prints, and as Engineer you should, just out of curiosity. The tube comes up way up higer than most people drive their CR-V's unless they are fording 3 foot deep or deeper streams. And those people know to change the fluid after such an event. The tube was there since day one to vent the gases that form when the clutch pack is engaged by the build up in fluid pressure from the front pump compare to the rear pump.
Here is another sure way for Honda to make money on maintenance: You need to take the brakes apart and lubricate caliper sliding pins at least once a year, or twice a year in the heavy snow/salt area or the rear calipers will seize up and lock up the brakes.
I am sure as part of your MBA training you had to take law classes, I know I did. And by law, if the dealer says you need some "maintenance item" done, but it is not referenced in the Owner's Manual, then they have to perform it for free. Take it from there, maybe it will bite the marketers at Honda on their butt, and they will stop messing with the engineers who actually know the product.
cheers
thanks for sharing!
We have some car reps who participate now and then on the forums but I don't think we have anyone from Honda participating. They may be lurking. :shades: