Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

houdini1 · February 2009

This defect sounds like something Consumer Reports would love to sink their teeth into. Remember the roll over problem and the tire problem?

I wonder how much Hyundai had to pay them in order to cover up this suspension problem? Must have been a lot as it was never mentioned. To the contrary, they rated it #1 in its class. I think I will take their opinion over one obviously unhappy and disgruntled alledged owner.

Sylvia · February 2009

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allmet33 · February 2009

The funny thing is, the very few that seem to have this complaint make it seem like it's a larger problem than it really is. The tell others to go look at all the complaints posted here and there, but when you go and really look...it's like the same 3 or 4 people with hundreds of posts, crying and whining about the same thing over and over until someone jumps on board with them and echos their cause. If you don't, then you either don't know what you're talking about, or don't have enough exeprience to know better.

Go check out Hyundai-Forums and you'll see what I mean.

bfriended · February 2009

Um, what makes you think I do not own a Genesis?

Also, please show me one article that says that the car is unsafe. Pretty please? Neither of the places you tell me to look states the car is unsafe and should be recalled. You are purposely lying for no reasons that seem to make sense. The sooner you state your true agenda, the sooner you will then be able to leave us in peace.

pat · February 2009

Let's not make this personal, please. We're all free to ignore those whose posts don't add up for us. That would be the correct approach.

aqua33v6 · February 2009

I go to my local Hyundai dealer for servicing my Sonata. I've visited them 3 times since October (twice for oil changes, once for sun visor TSB). During 2 of those last 3 visits, I saw people checking out or buying Genesis models. Just this past weekend, I was there looking at some of the new cars on the lot while waiting for my car to be finished in service. While I was out there, I watched a guy in his 50's / early-60's return from test driving a silver Genesis 4.6 with his wife. He was a conservative, dignified looking man, and reminded me of someone I'd see driving a Lexus. As they were getting out of the car they had just test-driven, the man said to his salesman enthusiastically, "yep, I want this one."

I've noticed the dealer's Genesis inventory has been steadily increasing, and the cars are moving. They started out with 3 models, all V6's. Then they got a V8. This past weekend, they had 8 Genesis models on the lot. Two V8's and six V6's. I guess people who are interested in buying a Genesis actually go test drive them despite all the negative posts by alleged owners on the Internet.

BTW, many of the roads in the area look as though they haven't been resurfaced in years. Plenty of bumps/ridges/potholes to bring out the worst in any suspension.

colegar · February 2009

Stanco, I do own a Genesis and I believe after 16,500 miles I am among those qualified to post an informed response to your serious charges regarding the suspension. If you go back to my original post and work forward, you will see that I have had a some criticism of the stiff ride on bumpy roads, but you will also see that I have complimented other traits of the suspension, and, in fact, have grown to respect the overall performance of the car. I am a relatively spirited driver and I have had the car on all sorts of roads. I can absolutely assure you that I have never had any symptom of anything approaching the dangerous and violent suspension behavior you so persistently describe.

Although your story is difficult for most of us to square, you have the right to believe that it is accurate and factual. However, it is so far from my 16,500 mile experience that I can't begin to get myself to be concerned that I will dive into a corner and the car will go crazy out of control. I know that I am being blunt but your post wasn't exactly soft peddled.

sandy25 · February 2009

It's funny how you talk about ALL the complaints, but if you look at the customer review section in Edmunds in regards to the Genesis....it has a customer rating of 9.4. Does that reflect every owner out there, no...it does not. Just as the site you mention with the complaints doesn't reflect all the Genesis owners out there either. "

Allmet... you hit the proverbial nail on the head....the "other site" has over 1100 members and the posts about the suspension come, over and over again, from fewer than 10...or roughly 1% of the members. Not to say they are not entitled to their opinions. Rating a suspension is subjective, depends on what you have been used to and what it is you prefer: firm, not so firm, soft etc. But claims about the genesis suspension being dangerous, out of control, etc are just so far over the top they can't be taken seriously. So don't.

johnxyz · February 2009

I'm still with stanco on this. Even if I discount 50% of what he is referencing there are now too many doubts. Where there is smoke, there is fire...

Throw in Hyundai ignoring the complaints ( but then again what car company doesn't...) and I'll have to pay more for a Japanese brand, which I suppose buys some peace of mind (and resale). Appears that Hyundai was dodging customer issues with the Azera (sp?) model that preceded the Genesis.

e're not talking about $25 dollars here. Thethe crummy seats in a $40,000 Hyundai (V8 model) has a point about perceived quality and value.

I may still go look at one just to address my curiosity. though.

backy · February 2009

I would like to understand better what Hyundai's response to these complaints has been, i.e. have they actually been "ignoring" them or is their response not what those complaining wanted?

For example: Owner tells HMA that the Genesis' suspension is "defective" and "unsafe" (words used in this thread). Hyundai checks the car, finds that the suspension is working as designed, tells the owner that. What more is HMA to do at this point? Sure, they can decide to change the suspension design at some point to make the ride over bumps smoother, if enough owners and prospective buyers think the ride is too stiff. But that is likely to be impractical to do on existing cars.

I have a feeling what these owners posting here would like HMA to do is to buy their cars back at the price they paid (maybe less mileage?). I can understand why someone would want the manufacturer to do that. But I can also understand if HMA doesn't do that, if the suspension is performing as designed. If a dealer or HMA in general decided to buy back cars because the owners don't like them, I would see that as a very generous customer service gesture. But not something that they should be expected to do.

As has been noted, it would be more effective for owners to take their case up the chain at HMA, all the way to the President if necessary, rather than slamming Hyundai here. There is also an arbitration process that is spelled out in the owner's manual. And if the owner believes the car is unsafe, a good course of action would be to file a complaint with the NHTSA. They can open an investigation that could lead to a recall--if in fact there is a safety issue with the car.

allmet33 · February 2009

Like I said before, do yourself a favor and go test drive one yourself. Nothing can replace personal experience.

As far as Hyundai not responding. Let's see if I can put this in perspective. You design a car that you've R&D'd to the nines, you release it and all the critics (auto authorities) test it and give it really good reviews in regards to suspension performance (note I did not say outstanding). Then, the car wins North American Car Of The Year. Out of nowhere, you get a single owner approaching you talking about how dangerous the car is, that over uneven surfaces at highway speeds, the steering wheel jerks violently out of his hands. Are you seriously going to pay this guy any attention??? Now, if you started having folks from all over the country coming at you with the same complaint, then you start taking a look at what is going on. So far, you are the ONLY person I've ever seen describe your suspension experience with so much dramatic flair. I honestly don't have an issue with you having a problem with the suspension, I can accept that it may not be what you were expecting, but dude...seriously...tone down the dramatics and everyone will take you a little more seriously.

agnosto · February 2009

Precisely, as I felt the bumpy ride myself... nice car but the 2009 Maxima is much nicer especially in the exterior design in my opinion... I have test driven the 2009 Maxima and I am considering it very cautiously as a many years Toyota owner...

allmet33 · February 2009

The Maxima is indeed a very nice car and the much needed design change it so deserved, but honestly...not as much car as the Genesis is. I'm surprised you're not cross shopping the M35 as it's comparable in many ways with the Genesis.

agnosto · February 2009

It might surprise you but I still like the looks, body flares of the 2009 Maxima better than M35... maybe the G37 (which I might test drive only the G37 sedan but still I like the looks of 09 Maxima better), also in my psychology I do not consider any vehicle no matter how good it is above $45k... another factor is always reliabilty which as a current Toyota owner (18+ years free of any major issue(s) except minor ones) makes it very difficult to decide...

kenb757 · February 2009

I've heard the Korean version of the Genesis has a better ride than the US spec version. Without going into the air suspension option in Korea, does anyone know the coil spring rate/dimensions of the Korean vs. US version of the Genesis? What about any differences in shock valving? Are the Korean springs and shocks interchangeable with the US version? I would try to get Hyundai to change out the parts for those who want a softer ride. If enough owners and potential owners complain, Hyundai just might do something. Changing tires might also improve the ride.

allmet33 · February 2009

Actually, it doesn't surprise me at all. The Maxima does have beautiful lines. The only reason I mentioned the M35 was it's a car that is pretty close to the size of the Genesis, moreso than the Maxima.

If the Maxima is your thing, then you're in a whole different class of car and the door is much wider now. G37, ES, C-Class, 3-Series...just to name few. Heck you wanna take a look at a beautiful car that I think trumps the Maxima...try the Passat CC!

bmichael · February 2009

Purchased new 09 Genesis 4.6 with Tech package. Very nice car with no complaints except for the steering pull when driving on freeways/roads with sloped surfaces. Because of the heavy steering, it can requirer two hands on the steering wheel to counter sloped driving surfaces. On short test drives, you probably won't experience this to you have a few hundred miles of driving experience.
For a first year car, Hyundai did a great job, but needs to correct this steering pull issue.

allmet33 · February 2009

Considering the Genesis is RWD, there should be no pull on the steering wheel unless the alignment is out of whack or the air pressure in your tires is VERY uneven. I would have them check that out.

FWD cars usually have the issue with torque steer, but usually only during acceleration.

msteam · February 2009

I have the 4.6 and I find ride is great! On certain rough roads the suspension gets a little busy, however my Lexus IS was positively worse and it's ride over imperfections in the road was very harsh. That's why I got rid of it in favor of the Genesis. One could check the ride in another car to see if there is much of a difference to determine if the car has a problem. All in all the tire profile gives me a superior ride and handles and tracks well.

agnosto · February 2009

Oh no, not for me, as I went to take a look at the Passat CC last week and left as fast as I could from the dealership, as I could not stand it ... as I said I am very particular with the exterior of a vehicle to attract me right at the first sight...

allmet33 · February 2009

To each their own my friend. I just don't understand how you say the M35 isn't curvaceous enough for you and yet, the lines are very similar to the Genesis.

donna388 · February 2009

"I hate to say it, you're starting to sound like this other guy in another forum by the name of Snaglepus. He swears up and down that every single Azera on the road has the same suspension issue his does, but since everybody isn't complaining about it, then we are either too ignorant to know better or we are in denial."

Mike, you say "I hate to say it" . . . But then you go ahead and do say it!

If you are going to quote someone, be factual and not try and put words in that persons' mouth.
First place, he does not swear anything.
You think that your 20 inch wheels and lousy riding low profile tires are the way to go says something about your approach to cars.
Same thing can be said about all the monies that you have wasted on radio equipment on your Azera.

. . "we are either too ignorant to know better or we are in denial."

Remember, you said it, not his words but yours.

What does what snaglepus says on another forum have to do with this Genesis discussion?

Some people simply love to hear themselves talk.

allmet33 · February 2009

Hey Donna...hating to say something doesn't mean that it isn't going to be said. Also, I didn't quote anyone, I simply gave a summary. By me saying he "swears", that's not meant in the literal sense, but if you see the conviction with which he states nobody knows what they are talking about, you may as well say he swears it.

Now....as far as MY 20's and low profile tires...it was MY choice. However, until you've had a ride in it...you can hardly say it's lousy riding. Putting them on wasn't about my "approach" to cars. It just means I wish for my Azera to stand out from all the other...you know, personal touch!

My audio system, the money would only be "wasted" if it wasn't an upgrade and sounded like crap.

Now...as far as what Snags said, all I said is that one guy sounded like the other...simply put. Basically just making an observation.

Some people simply love to hear themselves talk.

Based on the fact that your response to my posting has nothing to do with the Genesis discussion, you're the pot calling the kettle black! :P

P.S. Oh...and my posting you responded to, did have relevance to the Genesis topic. Thank you very much!

koury · February 2009

Have to agree here - when I'm in the left lane on the highway, I do find the car tends to drift left due to the crown of the road, and a slight amount of correction needs to be applied. I never experienced this in my previous car. Same goes when in the right lane (except reverse). And of course when in the middle lane, straight as an arrow. There is a lengthy discussion of this in the Hyundai Owner's Forum.

I would not let this discourage anyone from buying this car though.

JohnNW · February 2009

Hi all. Speaking as someone who purchased a Genesis about two weeks ago and am trading it in this weekend for something/anything else I can attest that concerns about the ride/suspension are real. This does not mean that they are necessarily widesprerad or experienced by everyone in the same manner or at all Many report no concerns about the ride and are happy. Others report concern. This does NOT negate the validity of either experience. Indeed, I have experienced both extremes myself - the demo I drove was firm, maybe a tad harsh, but acceptable - especially given all else wonderful about the car. The car I ended with, however, has the worst ride of any car I have ever driven - there is not a single type of road on which the ride is acceptable let alone pleasant. Having driven many cars and models in the last month (Acura, Lexus, Lincoln, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Sonata, Sante Fe, etc.) on the same roads I can say the Genesis is by far the worst ride of any. It is best described as nervous, pitchy or bouncy - EVERY bump,swell and road imperfection, no matter how minor, is felt and pitches the car. On a so-so highway near me it feels as if one is riding a go-kart with the car almost seeming to skip along the surface and shaking you around quite unpleasantly. Indeed, my Sante Fe and every other car I have ever tested handles this same stretch with minimal or no bounce whatsoever. I have also experienced the "porpoising" daily on two stretches of road in the area. I can say that the issue goes beyond just mere preference for a firm vs. soft ride to some downright odd and, yes, at times scary behavior. Again, in 30 years I have never had any other car ever exhibit anything like the constantly harsh, jittery ride of MY Genesis. I emphasize MY Genesis. I can't vouch for anyone else and don't deny that many people love the ride and have no concerns. Some wish to deny, however, that this issue exists. Others who love their ride, of course, think I am nuts, lying, work for Lexus, deluded, ignorant, etc. None of those are true. There are others like myself who have experienced the same or similar behavior - many of whom have contacted me. Several have or are trading in for something else as Hyundai has to date denied any sort of issue. It is always best to drive the car for yourself and make your own decision - I would only caution you to make sure you extensively drive the specific vehicle you will purchase over every road surface you typically encounter. Through a process of elimination I have also discovered that in my car the ride is much better when it's rainy out. So I'd suggest your drive when it's dry. I did my extensive test in a demo on a very rainy afternoon.

ergsum · February 2009

This may be a silly question, since either you or your dealership may have done so already, but have you checked your tire pressure? Hyundai ships their vehicles with very overly inflated tire pressure to prevent flat spotting. From what I have read in these forums, many dealerships miss correcting the pressure during vehicle prep.

JohnNW · February 2009

It's not tire pressure. All that and more has been done. Sand in back, psi adjusted, endless meetings with regional reps, techs, manager, etc. All to no avail.

stanco · February 2009

I was not pleased to hear I have a twin. As you know I have suffered with a duplicate defective suspension along with being nuts, delusionary etc. After receiving constant degrading from the fabulous 5 "know it alls",spearheaded by allnet33,backy, captain,joe97,bfriended and koury.

There has been no response from letters to hyundai's bosses and the dealer had
a jerk who I met at the dealer who didn't drive the car but left a message "car is normal" and case is closed ! Had he at least put it on a lift I wouldn't be livid.

Also I found same color overspray on windshield, side windows, rear window all on right side. they said may have been dockside touch up but no records exist. I had to clean it myself.

After owning over 40 cars I must say, this is the worst experience ever, including
seeking advice on this hyundai/edmunds blog.

Thank you for confirmation, but sorry for your experience.

backy · February 2009

I am sorry you took a constructive suggestion to report your issue to the NHTSA as "degrading."

BTW... have you done that yet? If so, what were the results?

aqua33v6 · February 2009

I visited tirerack.com to read reviews of the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 M tire, the tire used on all Genesis models with both 17" and 18" wheels. I found many negative reviews on this tire, notably from IS250 and LS430 owers. Curiously, most of the negative reviews from people driving those Lexus models were from early-2008 and prior, before the Genesis was even road tested or released on the market. One LS430 driver commented:

"On smooth surface (blacktop) roads very quite on concrete or different type surface you can hear the tire noises. If air pressure is to high in tire you have a hard road ride.

And a couple other LS430 drivers wrote:

"The car is "cushy" on low speed, but once you are on highway doing over 60mph, it is noisy and takes slightest roughness on the road hard. I dont like it."

"...the reason I bought the car was for a soft quiet ride. This tire does not excel in these areas. I have owned tires half the price of these Dunlops that ride better with less noise. Will replace with another brand in about 5000 miles."

All of the above reviews were from people using the same model Dunlop tire that is used on all Genesis models.

So, was Hyundai hoping that most Genesis buyers would prefer grip over ride comfort? Should these Dunlop tires be dropped down to 28 or 30 PSI in order provide a smoother ride? I think it's possible that there may have been a little misjudgment on Hyundai's part when they chose to put these tires on the Genesis. Or, maybe it's as simple as Hyundai creating a future TSB to drop the tire pressure when owners complain of a harsh ride?

So, why are people jumping to the conclusion of "suspension defects" when all this data is available? I know I'm not the only one who scours the web for data like this. Could it be possible that certain individuals have an agenda?

aqua33v6 · February 2009

One more thing...

Before I buy a car, I review every important aspect of the car. Tires are a major factor in performance, ride comfort, and future maintenance costs. If I were buying a Genesis, I'd have walked onto the dealer lot equipped with knowledge from these tire reviews. Not only would I have the dealer check tire PSI before test driving the different Genesis trims, but I would take the car on all different types of road surfaces, at speeds up to 75 MPH. If the dealer had a problem with me test driving the car for 20, 30, or 40 miles, I'd have said "take care, bye now" and moved on to the next dealer.

If I found the ride to be unacceptably rough on certain surfaces, and the PSI to be set properly on all 4 tires, and if I really liked everything else about the car... I would tell the dealer "replace these harsh Dunlop tires with some Bridegestone Turanza Serenities, or some Michelin Primacy MXV4's, and I will buy this car." Sure, it's maybe a $500 loss for the dealer (at their cost), but they really want to sell that $35,000 or $40,000 car. Any dealer who is too stingy to make that slight compromise would not get my business. Period.

Please note, I'm not trying say Dunlop tires are bad. In fact, I've read that they provide incredible grip during track testing. Genesis buyers who value road grip more than anything else would very likely want to keep the OEM Dunlop tires on the car.

houdini1 · February 2009

So you have been suffering for 2 weeks, having endless meetings with Hyundai regional people, have decided to sell the car and just today joined Edmunds to make your first post here? LMAO !!!! Not a twin, a clone.

bobad · February 2009

Not a twin, a clone.

That wasn't even hard to figure out.

sandy25 · February 2009

Someone, using a different name, but using the same language, descriptions,complaints, etc has told this story many, many many times on the other Genesis site. Motive?

donna388 · February 2009

"Based on the fact that your response to my posting has nothing to do
with the Genesis discussion, you're the pot calling the kettle black!"

The saying goes'The stove calling the kettle black.'
If you're going to quote something, it least do so correctly Mr. Stove.
Coming from someone who is black . . that's really funny!

In response to your bad choice of wheel and tires, is that because of peer pressure?
Or do you really enjoy that jiggly hard feel every pebble type ride?
None of my business you must agree. After all, it is your ride.

Sorry about you front end noise. Hope the dealer can find and fix it.
Perhaps one of your expensive tweeters is chirping? :confuse:

bobad · February 2009

Someone, using a different name, but using the same language, descriptions,complaints, etc has told this story many, many many times on the other Genesis site. Motive?

Probably a Lexus owner that's embarrassed for paying too much, so he creates sock puppets to agree with himself about non-existent problems. :P

JohnNW · February 2009

I'm not sure all can be boiled down to tires. I have tried 30 psi in the tires - no difference. The odd thing is that the ride is very good in the rain - none of the concerns are evident when it rains - any insights on that?. That of course makes one think tires, but the reps thought the tires were carefuly chosen..... A Mercedes tech also suggested yesterday that I have the alignment checked out more thoroughly. I don't think they really checked that when I first brought it in since they felt all was normal. I'll try that and see what comes up.

allmet33 · February 2009

Maybe it depends on where you came up...growing up, it was always said, "The pot calling the kettle black. Oh, by the way, this is just for you. I googled the phrase "stove calling the kettle black" and this is what came up:

GoEnglish.com - Idioms

Peer pressure for some wheels??? I don't follow everyone else, I lead my own way. Like I said before, until you've had a ride in it...you really can't say much for how the ride feels. Trust me, far from a hard jiggly feel you suggest.

Obviously, you didn't follow my threads about my sound system, the tweeters are the factory tweeters and the only noise coming from the sound system is beautiful music...thank you for your concern though.

koury · February 2009

You clearly have a lemon as your experiences are NOT in tune with the vast majority of Genesis owners.

Or, as others have stated, you are a clone. I suspect the latter.

JohnNW · February 2009

Has anyone chanaged tires and found an improvement or change in the ride? What would be a good tire choice? I'd think a summer touring tire would be a good choice - at least for non-winter months anyway.

JohnNW · February 2009

Hi Stanco -

Yes, it's been a bit of an ordeal. I've been trying to get as much insight as possible to help me decide what to do, etc.. I don't worry too much what others say. I've found that it is very easy to question motive - as if someone for some unknown reason would just devote one's life to posting bad stuff about the Genesis. I have no trouble believing those who sya they have no concern about the ride or any negative experience. I'm not sure, however, why they have so much trouble believing anyone else may have an issue or concern. And why they are so threatened by those that do? I guess I COULD question the motive of those who are perfectly happy and yet can't refrain from constantly commenting on an issue they have no concern about. Not sure why they can't tolerate any negative experience at all. And yes, I have I detailed my issue in the Genny owners suspension forum to try to get some insight and find others with similar experience. Not sure why that should bother anyone. If you're happy with your ride then why keep commenting on this topic? I am in contact with several others who have similar feelings about their ride - feel free to contact me if you like Stanco and I can share what I know at this point!

bfriended · February 2009

To be honest I have to question your motives, as well as your truthfullness...

JohnNW:
Member Since: February 13, 2009
Last Login: February 14, 2009

Seems like the ONLY posts you have made were in this forum, AFTER some others were questioned in regards to their truthfullness on the suspension "dangers". Then you appear... Hmmmm.

bfriended · February 2009

Why people will create multiple ID's on this forum, just to try to make people believe something. I don't get it. What is the point of it?

houdini1 · February 2009

I agree. It should not be allowed.

houdini1 · February 2009

Probably a Lexus owner that's embarrassed for paying too much

Bobad, I am a Lexus owner (actually own 2) but I certainly recognize a great car when I see and drive one and the Genesis fits the bill. I have noticed that it is mainly
European car fans who turn their noses up at the Genesis.

houdini1 · February 2009

Probably a Lexus owner that's embarrassed for paying too much

Bobad, I am a Lexus owner (actually own 2) but I certainly recognize a great car when I see and drive one and the Genesis fits the bill.I have noticed that it is mainly
European car fans who turn their noses up at the Genesis.

joe97 · February 2009

After receiving constant degrading from the fabulous 5 "know it alls",spearheaded by allnet33,backy, captain,joe97,bfriended and koury.

We are degrading you? I don't know, but it seems like you've been taking personal shots at us more often than not, like the quoted text above (by the way, I see 6 posters, in all

)

Speaking personally, just because I have posted different side of my experience of the vehicle, do not confuse as "constant degrading"; I would think others came with similar intentions.

Anyway, you may have drawn the bad luck of a defective vehicle, and as Backy mentioned, please take corrective actions if that was the case - ALL automakers have lemons.

koury · February 2009

Just curious...what is your handle in the Geneis forum?

lilengineerboy · February 2009

"...the reason I bought the car was for a soft quiet ride. This tire does not excel in these areas. I have owned tires half the price of these Dunlops that ride better with less noise. Will replace with another brand in about 5000 miles."

Wow, I can't imagine being more isolated from anything going on with respect to driving than with the LS430. Maybe he should could consider a Buick. :P

I think the car (the Genesis) is marketed as a sport sedan, implying there should be some sport. I didn't think the ride comfort is less than others in class (CTS, G35/37, G8) although rolling retirement homes masquerading as entry level luxury cars (ES350, Acura TL) might have a better ride.

I think there are enough cars out there that if this one isn't a good compromise of ride/handling, there are other choices. It doesn't seem like the best candidate if grip and handling aren't priorities. Maybe the Lincoln MKS?

mtnman1 · February 2009

but I would take the car on all different types of road surfaces, at speeds up to 75 MPH. If the dealer had a problem with me test driving the car for 20, 30, or 40 miles, I'd have said "take care, bye now" and moved on to the next dealer.
This is way off your point and the discussion in this thread, but this reminded me of a local large Honda dealership in the Columbus, Ohio area. I have checked out the Accord and the Pilot during the last two new vehicle purchases. They only had one vehicle of each type that they would allow you to take out on a test drive and they told you exactly where you could drive it by giving you specific directions. The test drive was only about 6 or 7 miles long. It was the most pathetic way of doing business I've ever seen. I guess Honda buyers are so blindly loyal that it didn't matter to them. Major turn off for me in both instances.

Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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