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  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    The $17,200 for the 08 Mazda6 is probably about $600-$800 more than they are going for in Chicago although there are very few 08s left. I've seen some used priced at maybe 16,900 with very low miles but that is obviously not what they are getting for them. I would think that $17,200 used car will end up getting bought for no more than $16000 if that.

    Might be true, but you have to look at the options too. Most VE's in this area did have auto, sunroofs and/or spoiler which can easily add $800 to the price. Our VE had a MSRP of $22.1K and we paid $17 and probably could have done better in May.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I would say that the vast majority of the VEs that I've seen in the Chicago area did not have sunroofs. Most had autos and a few had spoilers. Mostly didn't see sunroofs and spoilers til you moved up to Touring model.

    I'm just amazed that the same used cars sell for that much difference in price when the new ones don't. Maybe it's a regional mentality thing or something. Like I said, there 63 out of 84 used 2007s listed for sale in my area under $16000 and most right around $15000. And those are asking prices! Obviously, this a mixture of GTs, Touring and VEs. Not many of the base models were sold around here.
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    Don't you all think the new 6s look awesome!? I'm seriously considering buying one sometime in Oct. 272 horse V6: yep yep :shades:
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    I bet that all the 2007's list in that price range are ex rental VE's. Each time when I did see a car listed as a IGT it ended up being a VE. Like
    http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?recnum=9&leadExists=true&isLeadEnabled=- - true&%3bsearchType=22&tracktype=usedcc&%3bsortorder=ascending&%3blargeNumResults- - PerPage=0&paId=285646742&rowCount=9&%3baff=national&recNumber=9&%3bsortfield=PRI- - CE+ascending%2cPRICE+descending&%3bnumResultsPerPage=50&%3bcertifiedOnly=false&%- - 3bpageNumber=0&%3bcriteria=K-2007%7cE-ANY%7cM-_30_%7cH-%7cD-_6988_%7cN-N%7cR-30%- - 7cI-1%2c7%7cP-PRICE+ascending%2cPRICE+descending%7cQ-ascending%7cX-popular%7cZ-2- - 0705&aff=national
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I bet that all the 2007's list in that price range are ex rental VE's

    No, as I looked threw them it was a smattering of all types and all kinds of miles. I know what you mean though, there was probably a good number ex-rentals but certainly not close to all.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Hyundai has surpassed Honda to take the world's 4th largest auto company rank. VW just passed Ford to become the 3rd largest. I think GM and Toyota are taking turns now at 1 & 2.

    1. GM
    2. Toyota
    3. VW
    4. Hyundai/Kia
    5. Honda
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    If "VW just passed Ford to become the 3rd largest," shouldn't Ford be listed as #4??
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    1. GM
    2. Toyota
    3. VW
    4. Hyundai/Kia
    5. Honda

    Doesn't look right, were is Ford ? and Nissan/Renault Peugeot/Citroen
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Where did you get those rankings? Can you give unit numbers for the manufacturers? Just curious because that ranking doesn't look right.

    My understanding is it's....

    1. GM
    2. Toyota
    3. Honda
    4. Ford
    5. Nissan

    I have no idea where Hyundai is ranked, but I don't think it was anywhere near the top 5.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    I think he combined Kia and Hyundai, but then you would need to combine Nissan/Renault, Ford/Mazda too.
    You listed sales for US only, his one was worldwide which put VW in 3rd and Ford in 4th. Here are the numbers for 2007:

    http://oica.net/wp-content/uploads/world-ranking-2007.pdf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I just went on Cars.com and pulled up used Mazda6s for sale in Chicago area and the majority of the the 07s with similar mileage have asking prices of around $14,900. I assume those prices are negotiated down to something between $13k and $14k. Even if it's $13k---that's not bad 1st year depreciation from $16500.

    Actually we are talking about nearly 2 years depreciation on the 07's now, since 09's are out...especially for the lower priced ones as they generally have 20-40K mi.

    Did the same for my Milwaukee location, lowest prices are just under $14K. Of course, trade in value or private party sale price would be less than dealer retail. If they are selling for $13-14K with 20-40K mi, would average trade maybe be $11-12K and private party $12-13K?

    If KBB and edmunds are to be believed, I could trade in for 80-90% of what I paid (I have low miles on my 07). The 4 cyl factor may be big...I just changed my car to a Mazda6s and the KBB trade in only went up about $300 (edmunds disagrees and adds nearly $2k for the the V6, which I think was about the price difference when new).

    For comparison, I looked at the cars typically known as the low depreciation leaders. The 2007 Camrys with 20-40K are listed at around $17K and up and Accords at $16K and up. Since these probably sold new for $2-3K more than the Mazda6, I'd guess there was little difference among them in depreciation from actual selling prices.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    My mistake. I wasn't copying anything I just typed it in and obviously I got confused. I was pulling from two different sources and didn't connect the dots well. Sorry for confusion.n I think it should be:

    1. GM
    2. Toyota
    3. VW
    4. Ford
    5. Hyundai
    6. Honda
    The following was from Autoblog.com
    While Toyota and General Motors continue to duke it out for first place among the world's largest automakers, the lower rungs have been equally hotly contested. It came as a shock to many that Hyundai-Kia had surpassed Honda to take the Number 5 spot, but if you think the battle is being waged purely between the Far East and North America

    The following was from Motor Trend
    The reports are in, and Volkswagen has officially overtaken Ford as the number three automaker in the world. Volkswagen announced today that its sales-to-date in 2008 were 3.31 million vehicles globally, well ahead of Ford's 3.22 million.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think your numbers are pretty accurate in my estimation. I am having a hard time believing the numbers from the NE. They just don't make sense. Like I said, maybe we need to haul a bunch up there sell. You would think that in an area of the country where new car prices are so competitive that used prices would follow suit. It's very interesting to hear of this disconnect. between new prices and used.

    Aviboy is in the business so I have to believe he knows what he's talking about both dealershipwise and at the auctions. But then again he is a car salesman so you have to take everything with a grain of salt. ;)

    Just kidding Aviboy!
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    Just talked to a co-worker who bought an used 2006 Mazda3 S last night for $14K with 30K miles. :sick: Same engine and similar gas mileage to a Mazda6 i. Did not tell him what I paid for my 2008 Mazda6. :shades:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think he combined Kia and Hyundai, but then you would need to combine Nissan/Renault, Ford/Mazda too.

    Mazda is not a division of Ford. Ford owns a percentage of Mazda and does have influence but they have two different balance sheets. Mecury and Lincoln are reported in the Ford numbers. Kia and Hyundai are divisions of the corp much like Buick/Chevrolet and Ford/Mercury. I'm not sure of the exact relationship of Nissan/Renault.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I agree. I think the 07/08 Mazda6 is a steal compared to price and what you get in a Mazda3.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    It really is kind of amazing that VW is #3, while being such a minor player in the US (1.4% of the U.S. market). They have a lot of room to grow, if they can become more appealing to US consumers, I guess that is why they are buiding a plant here. They will be building a midsize sedan for the US market there.

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jAgSQ0VczWzZH7Y-3KCESryj9tigD928D5J80

    Not sure if that means they will build Passats or if they are going to design a vehicle specifically for the US.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Well, they just started putting cupholders in their cars a few years ago! It's no wonder they couldn't get us Americans to buy them. The Germans think that when you drive, you drive and nothing else. I will say they are, by and large, very good, courteous drivers which makes traffic flow very nicely. I've been to Germany about 15 times and learned that they don't put up with stupidity or rudeness.

    I heard about that new plant and that they plan on building a midsizer. I seem to recall reading something that it may be a specific to N.A. midsize but I can't remember where I read it.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Well, they just started putting cupholders in their cars a few years ago! It's no wonder they couldn't get us Americans to buy them. The Germans think that when you drive, you drive and nothing else.

    Cup holders are wasted in my car.

    VW has plans to "Americanize" it's cars and make them bigger, softer, and unique to the U.S..

    Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and Mazda have already "Americanized" their midsize cars.

    I like having a choice of Japanese, German, Korean, etc. identity preserved in the cars offered in North America. Now they are all becoming clones of each other.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and Mazda have already "Americanized" their midsize cars.

    Not so much Hyundai, which offers the same Sonata in the U.S. as is sold in the ROK, but another example is Honda, which designed a version of the Accord just for the NA market.
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    " but another example is Honda, which designed a version of the Accord just for the NA market."

    They still sell the ROW Accord but just call it TSX and charge more for it.

    Maybe Mazda should do that with their ROW Mazda6 and call it Mazda6
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    VW has plans to "Americanize" it's cars and make them bigger, softer, and unique to the U.S..

    I haven't read that specifically. Did you read this somewhere or is that an opinion?
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    "I haven't read that specifically. Did you read this somewhere or is that an opinion? "

    http://www.vw.com/vwbuzz/browse/en/us/detail/Volkswagen_Group_of_America_announc- es_it_will_produce_cars_in_Chattanooga/219

    "Initial production capacity for the facility is anticipated to be 150,000 vehicles, including a new midsize sedan designed specifically for the North American market."

    Looks like fact to me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Aviboy is in the business so I have to believe he knows what he's talking about both dealershipwise and at the auctions. But then again he is a car salesman so you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

    Go to cars.com and enter in a search for zip code "06804" and a search within a 50 mile radius. You will see what I'm talking about. These stinkin Mazda6's (2007's) start at $17,000. There are a bunch around $16,000. Now, if you ask me, that is just NUTS! I don't think they are worth that, however, around here, they do all the money!

    Now, as I've said, I do go to the auctions and see what these cars demand. Again, NUTS! I don't buy them because if I did, I would have to charge $17,000 just to turn a small profit. Another reason is a customer will always ask "what does a new one go for?"...then they find out you can get a new one for $17,000-$19,000 with incentives and discounts. That is why I don't buy them. Believe me, I wish I could. The demand for pre-owned Mazda6's in my area is HUGE!! I tell my customers straight up that they are too much to buy used, so I don't buy them. It's even worse with the Mazda3's. They go for even more money. So, when you say your friend bought a 2006 Mazda3 s for $14,000, I would say that is a bargain in this area. Again, just NUTS!!!! :sick:

    Just kidding Aviboy!

    You're lucky I have think skin! :P
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily. However, I've read that article before(Jeffyscott posted it earlier in this thread) but I didn't read it to say the new model would be bigger and softer. It did say designed specifically for the NA market. If you read back a few posts you'll see where I said they were designing it for the NA market.

    But I just was wondering if you knew for a fact that they were going to make it bigger and softer(and bigger and softer than what---the Passat?) or were just making an assumption.
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    But I just was wondering if you knew for a fact that they were going to make it bigger and softer(and bigger and softer than what---the Passat?) or were just making an assumption

    Do not know it for a fact, but do know for a fact that the average American is larger (weight wise) than the average European. So for an average American to sit comfortably in a car seat it would need to be bigger and heavier.
    I have a feeling it will be closer in size to the Skoda Superb.

    Don't forget VW never did bring the SWB and smaller engined Phaeton to the US and did have Chrysler build their Minivan instead of using their own European Sharan Van

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0805_2009_skoda_superb_first_driv- - - e/index.html
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Hey, what is think skin anyway? Is that med thick or semi thin??? :D

    Also, what does "pblt" mean or the symbol you used.... :P . I don't text so I may be out of it.

    Like I said, we need to buy a bunch in Chicago and sell them in your market! You're right. Those numbers are CRAZY.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I agree with Mopar. I really like the different characteristics between the different brands and don't want them to be homogenized. Although, I really don't see much difference in the Japan and Korean cars except the Koreans are just a little behind in finesse. I don't think the cars drive much differently than most of the other Asian cars.

    I haven't any inkling if VW will bloat or bastardize the handling or feel of their cars but I hope not. I think it would be a mistake for them. However, if they could work out some of the well known kinks with their electrical systems by building them here it would be nice.
  • moveovermoveover Member Posts: 31
    Hope history will not repeat itself, VW has a pretty bad record for building factories outside of Germany. The Westmoreland build Rabbits were horrible and the Slovakia build Touraq's are at the bottem of JD Power's list.

    Btw, our 08 Mazda6 replaced a 2004.5 VW Passat.
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    TeeTotally unreal! We stopped into a Mazda Dealer today and had our first hand look at the new '09 Mazda6. They had several on hand. They are the best looking car that I have seen in 38 years! For the money, they are awesome! Mazda will sell a TON of 'em this coming year!!! Thank-you Mazda for such an outstanding job with this car! :shades:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Based on MT's recent comparo, in which the Sonata beat every Japanese mid-sized car tested and the Optima beat some also, it appears the main thing that the Korean mid-sized cars are "behind" in wrt the Japanese cars now is price. ;)
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I guess, if you look long and hard enough, you can find a comparison that your favorite did well in ;) . It seems Car&Driver doesn't agree with MT. They had the Sonata in 4th place (behind 1st Accord, 2nd Altima, and 3rd Malibu).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Took you a long, hard time to find that C/D comparo in which the Accord placed first, didn't it? :)

    Note that C/D didn't test the Sonata SE, which has sharper handling than the GLS and Limited. And that's what those folks at C/D and MT like.

    But then it looks like the Sonata did out-refine the Camry at least, according to both MT and C/D. Also C/D ranked the Optima ahead of the Camry the last time they tested those two together.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Took you a long, hard time to find that C/D comparo in which the Accord placed first, didn't it?

    Not really. It's not the only one. The Accord has won more than just 1 comparison.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Proof reading is not my strong suit.

    Thick skin, I have thick skin dammit! :shades:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Not really. It's not the only one. The Accord has won more than just 1 comparison.

    I think that was why he had a :) after his comment.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Somebody help me out. What does this symbol mean :P

    or what does "pblt" mean?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    IIRC, it's similar to the ;-P icon, in which one uses if they make a joke, of if they're teasing or making fun of someone without trying to be offensive.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    This discussion just illustrates to me that these professional reviews cannot be taken as gospel. I like the comparisons like 0-60 times, stopping distances etc. because that is a lot more apples to apples.

    I remember the comparison that somebody did that compared a V6 Sonata Ltd. to an I4 something else because they were the same price. That's really helpful.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I guess your computer does not translate the Icons. "pblt" symbol is supposed to be the "sick" looking icon.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    If you mean by translate the fact that as you scroll across the icons a definition pops saying "smile", "grin", etc., yes my computer does that. But when it comes to that symbol it just says "pblt". I googled "pblt" and get nothing even from slang internet language. Don't mean to take up a lot of time but was just curious. Doesn't look like this forum is that active this morning so I don't think I'm depriving anyone of valuable airtime. ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I have no idea what "pblt" means then. Sorry!
  • exner60exner60 Member Posts: 11
    On my last tank, I was able to get 501.3 miles with 1.5 gallons left. It's a 2007 Mercury Milan 4-cylinder with the 5-speed manual transmission and 17.5-gallon tank.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    In the universal world of smileys, pblt has always represented the icon sticking its tongue out, and it is meant to be humorous.

    I have always thought that it is supposed to some verbal representation of someone making a "raspberry" sound in sticking out the tongue, but I think I made that up in my own head. :)

    Hope this helps.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I remember the comparison that somebody did that compared a V6 Sonata Ltd. to an I4 something else because they were the same price. That's really helpful.

    It was Edmunds.com a few years ago, when the 2006 Sonata just came out. The purpose of the review was to find out what $22k (I think?) would buy in a mid-sized sedan. Just so happened they were able to buy a V6 Sonata for that price, vs. just an I4 Accord and Camry. I agree with you, I found the review helpful because I typically look for the best car that can meet my needs within a certain budget. Personally an I4 is powerful enough for me in a mid-sized sedan, but I know there are many buyers who would opt for the extra power and smoothness of a V6, especially if they could get it for the same price (or even less!) than an I4.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I never thought there was any humorous connotation to a "raspberry". For example:

    raspberry: A derisive or contemptuous sound made by vibrating the extended tongue and the lips while exhaling.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/raspberry

    Thesaurus: Any of various derisive sounds of disapproval: boo, catcall, hiss, hoot. Slang bird, Bronx cheer, razz. See sounds/pleasant sounds/unpleasant sounds/neutral sounds or silence.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/raspberry

    There are several other Emotorcons for humorous purposes. I don't think the raspberry is one of them.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Um, the question was what does "pblt" mean. Perhaps you can define it. Clearly I failed in your eyes. ;)

    I would just point out that the icon sticking its tongue out here (and in most places) has a big grin on its face and it's clearly meant to be humorous. To me, the grin would negate any negative connotations to the sound that pblt is supposed to represent, no matter what you call it.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    peribronchial lymphatic tissue image

    http://www.all-acronyms.com/PBLT
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    LOL!! :P
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    VW could do a lot worse than bringing an actual Skoda Superb to the US market. IMHO VW's current US offerings are too expensive to compete directly with cars of similar size from other manufacturers. The Rabbit is the lone exception. VW's "traditional" virtues are better represented by the Skoda lineup than by the current Jetta and Passat or the upcoming CC.
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