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"our-cylinder Toyota Camry is quick relative to its competition. Our LE test car's 8.9-second 0-60-mph time is tops for this group, as is its 16.9-second quarter-mile at 82.3 mph (though the Accord, which has 19 more horsepower, nearly closed the gap)."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=124091
While Accord is fine automobile it's ride is more harsh and noisy then Camry, gives you impression of fast pick up. It is all subjective feeling. Facts prove otherwise.
BTW Camry also has best brakes and turning radius in the group
"Life in Camryland isn't all bad, though. It turns a tighter circle at 36.1 feet than either the Accord at 37.7 feet or Malibu at 40.4 feet, making it less stressful to maneuver in crowded areas. The Toyota also stopped the shortest from 60 mph at 122 feet."
Also, how difficult is it to find an '09 Mazda 6i with the manual transmission?
Per Motor Trend
Accord LX-SE 5AT
2006 0-60 - 8.1s
Camry LE 5AT
2007 0-60 - 8.7s
If you are looking for a mtx, they are just starting to pop up. I have two, one of which is a i Sport. It really is very very smooth and really quick. I was really pleased with my first drive.
I rented an '08 Milan recently for a couple of weeks and it was much more direct than the Accord--it felt more like the Civic, or even a little like my dad's old 3-series. If the Mazda6 has that level of steering feel and balance, it might be worth making the 100-mile drive to the Atlanta dealerships that have some variety in stock. (Our local Mazda dealer is very much a lowest-common-denominator place.)
For $14.6K for a basic year-old Fusion, I'd rather get a 2009 Sonata with a full complement of safety features including ESC and the longer warranty, and IMO a much nicer interior. You could also pick up a loaded, low-miles Fusion or Milan for that price.
Actually, I only mention the Fusion because the driving dynamics remind me of the Civic. Everything I've read about the Sonata GLS says it's softer than the Accord, and that's the wrong direction for me. I'd be more likely to consider a Sonata SE if I could find one with the I4, but then we're back to Accord/Mazda6 prices, well beyond the bargain basement territory of the "leftover" Fusion.
Have you driven the 2008 Accord? It's softened up. I didn't find the 2009 Sonata significantly softer than the Accord. The Fusion does have a nice ride quality though. But a Fusion S is pretty bare-bones, and is one of the few cars in this class that doesn't have ESC even available. But it's standard on the Accord and Sonata--another big reason to go with one of those I think, or the Elantra SE (but good luck finding one of those right now!).
At current discounts/rebates, a Sonata SE I4 would start under $18k--very much in the Civic EX territory. More than a leftover Fusion S stick, certainly--but WAY more car. Shoot, if you want something cheap how about a slightly used Taurus (the classic one, not the re-badged Five Hundred)?
As for the Taurus, it's a no-go. As I suggested in my original post, I'm looking for something more nimble and fun to drive than my current '02 Accord. By no stretch of the imagination would any Taurus (other than a first-generation SHO) fit that description.
The 2008 Fusion didn't have it but ESC is now available on the 2009 models.
It's easier to factory order a Ford the way you want it than an import, so getting exactly what you want is just a matter of waiting 4-6 weeks in most cases.
September 2011.
Referring to the RAV4 for 2009,
From Carscoop.Blogspot.com :
The new 2.5L unit that produces 179 HP at 6,000 RPM, along with 172 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,000 RPM (versus 166 HP and 165 lb.-ft. respectively of the previous 2.4L), is matted to a new 4-speed automatic transmission. According to Toyota, fuel efficiency is improved over the 2008 RAV-4 2.4L with EPA mpg estimates of 22 city/28 highway on 4x2 models and 21 city/27 highway on 4x4 models. The top-of-the-line 269 HP 3.5-liter V6 remains unchanged.
I guess THIS is what will go into the 2010 Camry. Makes more sense than the 2.7L. It'll be more torquey than either of Honda's 2.4L engines. A plus in these ever-heavier midsize sedans.
Toyota's Camry has the 2GR 3.5L which is a mileage leader AND the class-leader in acceleration as well. They have a 6-speed Auto, as does Ford, Mazda, VW, and General Motors. Nissan has upped the ante more with a good implementation of a CVT, and should be applauded for making a 4-cylinder engine that rivals some V6 engines in acceleration, all with city fuel economy and torque that is top of the class.
Honda's engine is lacking in torque (either one, the 4-cyl models vs. other 4s or the V6 vs other V6s), but doesn't "make it all better" with great economy; if anything, the real-world fuel economy seems to have taken a nosedive compared to the previous generation.
Even the once-lowly Hyundai Sonata matches or beats the Accord with its fuel economy, all without VCM; a system which has been a problem in a number of cars (check out the Accord VCM Thread here on Edmunds).
*Steps off Soapbox*
Sorry, I just had to get that out. Honda went from being a class leader in powertrains and performance in the previous generation to being mediocre/midpack in one generation. Did making the Accord big and beefy also make it too big for its britches?
EDIT: That claim Ford is making is for their upcoming Fusion refresh.
In my head I wrote it, put in reality I didn't!
What was the mileage increase in the RAV4?
Regards:
OldCEM
Car and Driver ran the Camry SE-V6 with numbers below. Which mags had the GM twins being faster?
2007 Toyota Camry V-6
Second Place: The Quickest Cars of 2007: $20,000 to $25,000
Base price: $24,160
0-to-60-mph time: 5.8 sec
Quarter-mile time: 14.3 sec @ 99 mph
The Saturn Aura XR was ninth on this list.
Check that out, it may be what you're looking for; it's a Car and Driver Comparo.
For what it is worth, the Motor Trend comparison I referenced in my previous post had the Malibu and the Accord accelerating at the same rate to 60 MPH. Other tests I've seen put the Malibu slightly faster (by about 2 tenths of a second).
The Camry is simply the fastest family car in the $25,000 category.
Right now I think Malibu and Sonata are 1-2 in stopping distances, although the Sonata has the slimest margin over the 3rd place Camry.
I can't give you fastest even w/ better tires. Passat and Altima stand in as much faster sprinters.
I would argue the Sonata has the smoothest ride but certainly a better set of tires could improve the already smooth Camry.
So you're saying we should overlook it, and give Toyota a pass for cheaping out? I disagree. We don't have to make excuses for everyone else, and Toyota, typically one of the most expensive options out there, CERTAINLY shouldn't get them.
I can't help but notice you said "4-cyl Camry is the fastest...". Um, with the lowest-in-class horsepower, it just isn't; regardless of Toyota's cost-cutting on tires or not.
Braking/Acceleration
170ft from 70 MPH, 8.9 sec to 60 MPH. Camry
169ft from 70 MPH, 8.2 sec to 60 MPH. Accord
168ft from 70 MPH, 7.8 sec to 60 MPH. Altima
170ft from 80 MPH, 8.7 sec to 60 MPH. Malibu
Edmunds Road Tests Comparison Test: 2008 Four-Cylinder Family Sedans
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=124091
"Life in Camryland isn't all bad, though. It turns a tighter circle at 36.1 feet than either the Accord at 37.7 feet or Malibu at 40.4 feet, making it less stressful to maneuver in crowded areas. The Toyota also stopped the shortest from 60 mph at 122 feet."
"the four-cylinder Toyota Camry is quick relative to its competition. Our LE test car's 8.9-second 0-60-mph time is tops for this group, as is its 16.9-second quarter-mile at 82.3 mph (though the Accord, which has 19 more horsepower, nearly closed the gap)."
Most likely your numbers are for old generation Accord that was quicker then this year model. Altima wasn't part of edmunds review.
Then you can't claim the Camry being the fastest in this class. Clearly the Passat is the fastest; followed in a distant second by the Altima.
F/E 4 cyclinder (top three)
Nissan Altima 2.5L 6-spd manual - 23/32
Chevy Malibu 2.4L 6-spd auto 22/33
Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 5-spd auto 22/32
F/E 6 cyclinder (top three)
Hyundai Sonata 3.3L 5-spd auto 19/29
Honda Accord 3.5L 5-spd auto 19/29
Toyota Camry 3.5L 6-spd auto 19/28