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Comments
Their rating and analysis are pretty much on target except that I would have rated the bloated and apathetic Accord as #3. Here is Kbb’s final rating:
#6. Ford Fusion
#5. Toyota Camry
#4. Hyundai Sonata
#3. Nissan Altima
#2. Honda Accord
#1. Chevy Malibu
Changing oil every 3500 miles is excessive, is that actually the Honda's recomended oil change interval?
For my Mazda6, if KBB is to be believed, the difference in price (private party value) is now only $100 between the V6 and the I4. I believe at the time of purchase it was about $2000 more for the V6.
Edmunds still shows a $1300 difference...but that is down from the nearly $2000 that they were showing just about 3 weeks ago. (See post #10685)
Clearly the trend is toward higher prices for I4's and lower for V6's.
My maintenance minder on my 2006 4-cylinder Accord sends me in around 7,000 miles or so.
here is my ranking:
1. ford fusion
6. everything else (no awd) :P
If it's a V6 model, the intervals (before Maintenance Minder) were 3,750=severe, and 7,500 for normal. You can call it excessive, but I call it cheap insurance against sludge. The oil in the V6 gets pretty dirty at 3,000 miles. Of course, I'm not paying someone else to change it, so I can easily afford to change it more often.
i plan on bringing it in every 5k. i get the tires rotated at the same time.
Same thing with my Sebring - free lifetime oil changes and tire rotation. I just have to purchase the filter. They originally were changing it every 3,000 miles (the heavy duty service interval in the owner's manual).
However, some bean counter must have thought of a way to save the dealership money and now they will only change it every 6,000 miles, which is the regular duty interval in my manual. I'll change it myself every other oil change.
Regards:
OldCEM
here is my ranking:
1. ford fusion
6. everything else (no awd)
The Subaru Legacy has AWD standard, and is available with a manual transmission, and has better MPG.
Same thing with my Sebring - free lifetime oil changes and tire rotation. I just have to purchase the filter. They originally were changing it every 3,000 miles (the heavy duty service interval in the owner's manual).
The place I got the Accord has free oil changes for life too, so long as you pay $20 for a tire rotation, etc. At least they don't make me buy the oil and filter though, that is just silly. The light seems to come on about every 7000-7500 miles, just like the silly little thing that was tied to the odometer on my '93.
The oil in the V6 gets pretty dirty at 3,000 miles.
Are you going by it's appearance?
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The%20Dark%20Oil%20Myth
Of course, I'm not paying someone else to change it, so I can easily afford to change it more often.
The cost is not really the point, the extra $10-15 per oil change to have someone else do it is not significant.
I think we all realize that. However the Legacy was not on the list of 6. Also, the AWD Fusion is only available with a V6. Get the Legacy with its V6 and you not only get worse fuel economy than the AWD Fusion, but you also have to fill it with premium gas. Same goes for the blown I4 in the Subie. Requires premium and the AWD Fusion gets better gas mileage.
But yes, the Plain Jane I4 in the Legacy does get better gas mileage than the AWD Fusion with a V6. Auto or manual tranny for the former.
That is true, you trade in some fuel economy for sub 6 second performance and handling.
i'm ok with 5k, since the tires get rotated and i think they last a lot longer that way.
Yeah, thankfully I don't have to sit back there so I wouldn't really know. That and I seem to associate with a lot of "vertically challenged" types so issues like the height adjustable seat and visibility are more important than rear seat leg room.
While not particularly on topic, ours is a body style not even offered by the Fusion, a wagon. I am content with a 165hp, manual transmission, AWD, 20k wagon that gets 25 city and 30 hwy. Oh, and 2500lbs of towing capacity for those times when you need to carry a little extra (something the current Fusion can't do at all).
if you don't think safety between different vehicles is not a variable, i guess we are going to disagree.
my kids usually drive a 4wd explorer v8 with a big sound system, a good combination for them between what they want and what they need.
a 4wd subaru turbo with a big sound system would be a bad thing.
I think you are confusing the Legacy GT with the Subaru Impreza WRX STI. The turbo on the Legacy is smooth and linear.
Oh good a truck with high center of gravity...at least with that V8 they can't afford to drive it too much anyway. :P
Good Luck
OldCEM
That is only because the market tells them it is likely more profitable to call the wagon a "crossover", which they chose to name "Edge".
If it were, I'd own one.
I don't see where you're getting the sub 6 sec performance for the V6 but I'll at least give you the handling. MT estimated 6.5 secs to 60 but I couldn't find an actual test anywhere. However the AWD Fusion is quite a bit less expensive to buy than a V6 Legacy so I would expect nothing less from a car that starts at around $32k. In fact, I would expect much more.
I do like the Legacy but the AWD Fusion is not far behind in performance and is a much better bargain all around. The blown I4 Legacy models are a different story though.
The Edge substiutes for the would-be Fusion wagon. The CR-V does the same for the would-be Civic wagon.
An example...buyers were willing to pay substantially more for a Ford Escape than they were for a Focus wagon. This despite the greater cargo capacity of the Focus Wagon.
If there were a conventional Fusion wagon, they would not be able to price it at $4k more than the sedan as they do with the Edge.
my personal experience has been that suv's are pretty safe in big collisions.
i do feel the fusion gets more respect than the focus that it replaced, i. e. other cars pulling out from side streets/parking lots in front of you or cutting you off on the highway because your vehicle is smaller.
speaking of Legs, i have a story. One time i was driving my kids to their after school lessons in my suv. It was still light, but getting towards dusk. a few cars ahead of me was an outback wagon. a cadillac shot out of a driveway from the left, realized there was a car in the lane, braked hard but hit the subie in the left front. the subie went off the travel lane to the right and hit a telephone pole. the driver's door popped open and the driver fell into the road in front of me.
my kids eyes were huge and i was so nervous, it took me 3 times to dial 911.
i think the caddie driver saw my suv, but not the car in front of me, it was black.
both my kids now drive with the gas mileage readout displayed.
i told them i would appreciate 16+.
I searched Edmunds, C&D, and MT. None of them had a tested time, just estimates. If you have a link then post it, otherwise I really don't care. The Legacy V6 is overpriced IMO. Nice car, but we can do better at that price point.
Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.
I don't there are reviews for the Legacy with the flat 6 because I don't think its a model that gets a lot of attention. Everyone either goes for the Legacy with the flat 4 or the flat 4 turbo.
It's all about choices.
That is the funniest thing to me about SUVs, the minimal payload capacity of them. I once pointed out that our Windstar had a payload capacity of 1800 pounds to a guy whose SUV had an 800ish pound capacity...where's the utility? where's the sport? it is a vehicle, though.
As for safety the data I have seen shows that for any particular weight range, they are not really any safer than cars for the occupants, while being far more dangerous to the rest of us on the road.
That's great and all, but the discussion focused on the 6 cylinder model, not the blown 4. There are actually 3 engine choices if you count the blown 4 and NA 4 as two separate engines.
The standard payload of the current gen Explorer is 1460 lbs. 4X4 models are 1510 lbs or higher depending on the engine.
You are right 1+1+1=3.
i was pretty happy with how the fusion performed with 4 people plus luggage
on it's one long trip, so far. first of many i think.
Some would think 2 though, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO, so I understand where you were coming from. I was actually kind of surprised to see the various powertrain options for the Legacy though. I think there were like 5 or 6 because you can get the same engine with a 5-speed OR 6-speed MTX. Seems a little crazy!
In all honesty though, I will replace our leased Explorer with something that has AWD come next Spring when the lease is up. I truly wish more of these mid-sizers had AWD. I like the Legacy OK, but I'm not in love with it. The Fusion is nice on the outside but the inside is a turn-off to me now. So unless the '10 Fusion wows me I'lll be getting another SUV or a CUV. I like the Sable too, but I don't want to buy a dead duck. :sick:
Give me an AWD Mazda6, Altima, Accord, or a nicer Fusion and I'll be happier. Especially the 6.