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Comments
my mid size sedan doesn't need a cargo cover, but i do like the moonroof.
i would like to see a prius sunroof, if someone can post a picture or a link.
the roof design would make it a very expensive item.
maybe enough prius have been sold to provide a market for it.
http://www.toyotaoptions.com/Prius.htm
i only want a factory designed and installed one.
I think we all get the message: you really don't like the Prius. Cargo covers and moonroofs have nothing to do with it. That's fine. But enough of the games, OK?
P.S. Did you know that factory designed and installed moonroofs can leak also? Some nighttime reading for you, if you are interested...
http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl897e.htm
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-fusion/3477-ford-fusion-sun-roof-leaks.html
http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/new-2007-nissan-altima-discussion/278131-altima- -moonroof.html
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0feec/2026
Good night, moon (roof).
thanks for trying to convince me, but no sale.
Please feel free to share with us any links to info about high-voltage wiring in the Prius' roof. As for moonroofs being designed in the '80s... yes, I think it's true that basic moonroof design hasn't changed much since then. I remember a moonroof on a girlfriend's 1983 626 that worked just like they do today.
Exterior:
I hear folks say the previous generation Accord looked better, and I just don’t get it. I came very close to buying an 04 Accord back when I purchased my 05 Altima but declined the offer simply because I hated the styling. I love the aggressive blunt nose of the new Accord. V6 models look especially aggressive with the front lip spoiler and fog light cut outs. All EX (not just the V6) models should come with the fogs IMO because without them the front end looks a bit naked. I find the side profile of the Accord to be quite nice and I’m a big fan of the standard 17 inch alloy wheels found on EX models. I also like the Acura TL-like character line that goes from the front fender to the back taillights. The one weak aspect of the Accord’s styling is the rear end. It looks a bit bland, especially next to the 06 and 07 Accord and the Mazda6 GT which have LEDs.
At first I didn’t like the front end of the new 6, but its grown on me a bit. I still have issues with the lower grille and its “Braces” but otherwise the car looks good from the front to me. I especially like the Xenon headlamps found on GT and some Touring models. I drove a Black GT model at night and I was impressed with the exterior lighting and I thought the manual leveling xenon headlamps were a nice touch. In profile, the only real issue I had with the new 6 was the RX-8 inspired fender flairs. On V6 models with 18s it doesn’t look too bad, but on models with 17s and especially those with 16s, the vehicle height to wheel ratio makes the car look tipsy looking. The 17s should be standard on base models and the 18s on the S models should be standard on Touring and Grand Touring I4 models. I think if I’d never seen the Euro and Japanese-based Mazda6 I’d probably like the our new 6 more but after seeing those models, the US-based 6 looks a bit too stretched (from the side) for its exterior styling. It’s a bit too big for the styling theme its trying to pull off.
Winner: Accord it just looks more cohesive (I know I’m going to catch heck for this!)
Interior:
I still think the Accord has the best interior materials in the midsize sedan category. The only car that exceeds the Accord’s materials is the Passat and for what VW charges for the car it’s materials should be better. Honda just seems to get it right in the areas where people pay attention. From the padded door panels, gathered leather upholstery and overall feel of the interior materials, the Accord’s interior just comes off as more upscale and more matured feeling than the interior of the 6. I’d say the Accord’s interior design feels a generation or two older than the new Mazda6, which isn’t particularly a good thing. One major negative for the Accord is the abundant use of buttons throughout the interior. It can be daunting at first glance, but after about ten minutes or so of driving I quickly became accustomed to the layout. Base models with manual climate control look less impressive than models equipped with the automatic climate control and navigation system. Hondas were always known for having very user friendly simplistic interior designs, that’s changed quite a bit over the last two generations and I hope Honda will go back to their roots in future generations because the current Accord has a very minivan like interior layout. The bottom line is that when I sit inside the Accord, it feels more refined and more matured. The level of quality is higher, the tactile feel of the controls is better and the overall ambience inside of the Accord is that of a much costlier vehicle. For some it may be a bit too mature but it works well for me. Of course this assessment is based on driving Accord EX-L models, EX models with cloth aren’t bad, but LX models have their fair share of cheap interior materials as well. In base LX and LX-P form, I’d be inclined to go with other choices the Malibu and the Aura IMO have better interior materials in base models in comparison to the Accord but when you dress the Accord up in leather, wood trim and the works, its hard to beat the Accord’s interior materials and overall feel.
The Mazda6 on the other hand just feels sportier. There is no denying that. I drove one particular GT model at night and I came away very impressed with the interior’s design. The gauges in particular were very, bright and sporty maybe a bit too bright since I had to adjust them after a while. I also liked the ambient interior lighting found in the 6 which is very BMW-like. But while the interior design of the 6 is better than the Accords, I don’t believe the materials are better. Several areas throughout the interior are marred by cheap interior plastic. The area around the interior gauges and the interior door panels felt very cheap. I also noticed a lack of padding for the interior armrest and some interior panels that didn’t line up well. While the leather inside the 6 has a nice perforation pattern the leather quality itself wasn’t that great, especially next to the Accord’s gathered, more upscale looking leather and in base form, the cheap looking (and feeling) cloth upholstery matched up with the cheap looking black plastic didn’t’ impress me at all. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the 6 has bad materials, but next to the Accord, the 6’s materials are lacking in texture, quality and feel. The 6 in upper trim levels competes favorably against the Camry and the Aura and Malibu but I feel the Accord and Sonata have better materials overall.
Winner: The Accord buy a significant margin
The Drive:
I only got to take the Accord out for a short test drive, so I can’t say much about the it. But what I do know is that the basic LX model I drove had one of the slickest feeling manual transmissions I‘ve ever driven. I was hoping to drive an EX or EX-L model but the nearest model with a manual was over 90 miles away. Power was abundant, even in the base LX model I drove and the shifter itself felt very light, very crisp and very predictable. I drive a truck for a living and the shifter in the Accord felt refreshing next to the clunky, awkward feel of the shifter in my Peterbilt. Yet for a car with such a slick shifting manual, I must say that the Accord didn’t seem nearly as fun to drive as previous generations. It’s almost as if the car has gotten to big to warrant a stick shift. The Handling was sound, but never sporty, the ride itself was very Camry-like and the steering felt a bit on the light side. Overall the drive, just like the interior felt a bit more matured than the Mazda6. The car just felt big...
On the flip side, the 6 was a lot more fun to drive. I went to a dealership in Anderson, SC that allows you to test drive cars on your own so I took the 6 on an extended test drive. Outside of having a pushy salesmen who knew nothing about his product and who acted like my brother and I weren’t worth his time, I must say the experience with the 6 was fantasitc! From the interior layout, to the handling and steering feel the 6 was just more fun to drive. I felt like I was connected to the car, not just driving it. It took some time getting used to the shift pattern but once I warmed up to it, I felt right at home in the 6. I took the 6 all over the Anderson area from the back roads leading to Clemson University to a short stint up Interstate 85. The 6 was up for every challenge. In areas where the Accord simply met the challenge, the 6 seemed eager, more poised and ready for any task given to it. Surprisingly the 6’s ride was more composed than the Accord’s and it never felt harsh. The 6 also had less wind and engine noise. As a matter of fact, while sitting at a red light I thought I’d actually stalled the 6 because it was so quiet. One area where the 6 lagged behind the Accord was in power. The Accord, even in base LX form just seemed more powerful despite its slightly bigger size. I’m sure the 6 weighs more too. The lack in power isn’t a real concern but it is noticeable in the few passing maneuvers I attempted on the interstate. While the 6 didn’t feel as sporty as the previous generation, its sportier than anything currently available in this class.
Winner: The Mazda6 by a wide margin.
Features:
I’m one of those folks who loves features. One of the few things I like about my current Altima is its list of standard and optional equipment. In the feature content arena, the 6 easily beats the Accord and everything else in this class. Xenon headlamps, LEDs and push button start are just a few of the features the Mazda6 GT I test drove had.
Memory seats are a nice touch too, but I don’t think I’d use them much. I didn’t drive an EX or EX-L but I spent a few minutes inside an Accord EXLV6 inside the dealership showroom and it became clear that Honda missed the boat on interior gadgetry and innovation. Bluetooth is only available on navigation-equipped models, there is no push button start, no LED tail lamps or electroluminescent interior gauges. For the price of a GT model, I’d be better off moving up into Acura TSX or Audi A4 2.0t territory, but a loaded Touring model with Convenience and BOSE/Moonroof pkgs lines up very closely with the Accord EX-L model all while having xenons, rain-sensing wipers and many other features not found in this class.
Winner: Mazda6 by a wide margin
Overall:
While I do find the styling of the Accord to be better than the 6, I cannot deny that the 6 is overall the more sporting and more fun car to drive. From its racy, cool looking gauge cluster to its sporty handling and fun to drive factor the 6 just seems like the more engaging car. The Accord, while feeling predictable, just feels a bit mature, even a bit Spartan in LX trim (which is to be expected given its base price) so I’ll have to make the trip to Asheville to drive the only EX-L manual sedan in my area (coincidently a Mazda dealership in the Asheville area also has an I GT manual as well) On the safety front the two cars should be very similar and at this point I’ll give Honda a slight edge over the 6 for reliability (considering Honda’s track record) but overall the 6 just fit me better. I’d like to stay loyal to Honda (since that’s all my family has ever driven) and because I find the interior materials to be a great deal better than those found in the 6, but the 6 draws me to it and considering that it seems easy to find a loaded manual Mazda6 in comparison to a loaded manual Accord and the fact that Mazda will probably give me a better discount, I’m going with the 6 on this one. If there were a few things I’d change about the new Mazda6, it would be its available color combinations for manual models. You can only get four exterior colors (Red, Black, Silver or Gray) with one interior color (Black) while in Canada you can choose any color 6 you want, even with the manual transmission. I would love a Kona Blue Mazda6 I GT with Gray leather!
Overall Winner: Mazda6...until I get more seat time in an EX-L manual Accord.
For the first time in ages, I'm excited about a Ford product. The Prius, for a variety of reasons, doesn't do it for me, but I think this is a great move for Ford.
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regardless, since it is not available with a factory moonroof, i would not buy one.
overall, i can appreciate that it is a pretty practical vehicle, just not for me.
The 2011 Sonata due in 2010, will be part of Hyundai's 24/7 Version 2.0 initiative, which will push out 7 new models by the end of 2011. Recall that the 2006 Sonata was the 2nd vehicle in Hyundai's original 24/7 program, which resulted in 8 (whoops) new or redesigned models in a span of 2 years.
Things are getting interestinger and interestinger in the mid-sized hybrid market!
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/2011_h- - yundai_sonata_hybrid_car_news
Honda can always be counted on for reliability and refinement but I think the design of the new Accord is poor.
I agree.
The Accord is a very tough vehicle to beat, simply because Honda as "gotten it right" for so many years. No one can deny that.
I will say that I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the comparison of interior materials. I think the Mazda6 uses high material quality, and is put together very well. I really don't see much difference between the build quality of the Accord and Mazda6. The door arm rest is padded BTW, on the Mazda6.
I would by a 6 simply because of the drive and the fact that it is built at least as good as the Accord. IMO
i would like to see at the very least, a camry & fusion hybrid versus camry & fusion 4 cyl versions. 4 on 4 would be better.
You don't get a free pass because your past cars have been good. The new Accord in my eyes is a design disaster. Probably why I see far more new Camrys than Accords on the road. Probably 5 to 1.
The reverse should also be true. There are a lot of domestic bashers out there that haven't owned or probably even driven a domestic in years and are still bashing them. Ford, especially, has made great strides in quality and is putting out some very nice vehicles with innovative equipment as of late.
However, I believe reputation stands for something and should enter into the equation of a car purchasing decision if other things appear equal.
You must have selective vision or live in quite the car-sales black-hole for Honda. Honda's Accord has kept up with Camry just about neck and neck with sales for 2008.
Not a whole lot of people perceive this, in my experience. Pretty much both Toyota and Honda are tops in perception, with different kinds of drivers preferring each, but both with very positive views. Now the car mags, that's another thing... Toyota generally gets knocked due to softer handling vs. Honda, but both are considered quality brands. This is very apparent if you look at Camry vs. Accord reviews. It's almost always "Camry is really smooth, but boring; Accord has all those buttons but is more a driver's car." With some exceptions, e.g. Camry taking the MT COTY a year or so ago.
Model/Dec. 08/% ch from 07/YTD/% ch from YTD 07
Camry/25,275/-34.5%/436,617/-7.7%
Accord/22,338/-28.5%/372,789/-5.0%
Malibu/17,355/+48.5%/177,088/+51.5%
Altima/17,311/-31.2%/269,668/-5.3%
Fusion/10,274/-24.1/147,569/-1.3%
The Sonata did not make the top 20 and Malibu's are only one third of Camry.
Source: http://www.online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
No official numbers are out yet but don't be surprised if Malibu fleet sales are very high for December.
A large jump in month to month sales like that typically means a lot of them were dumped to fleets. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened, and for GM's sake I hope not, but history tells us that it probably was the reason for the higher number that month. Take a look at the Impala too. 9000 more sold in December than in November? 6000 more Malibus sold in December than in November? Makes one wonder doesn't it?
Note that sales of others like the Fusion, Accord, Camry, etc stayed fairly flat from month to month.
...topping by 44 cars?
YTD Altima = 269,668 v. YTD Malibu = 177,088
BTW, I think the Nissan needs to put t a bigger engine in the Altima, may be a 2.7 L w/ 200HP? The Altima engine used to be the leader, now the Accord is at or even better (EX) than the Altima. And if the Camry gets a new 2.5L engine in about 1-2 months, the Altima will not be the special car any more.
According to certain news sources, the February issue of Consumer Reports lists some recommendations for the 2009 new cars. Although their tests are about "halfway through", they've listed a few noteworthy choices early, including the Chevy Malibu LTZ V6, and not one but SIX Ford models, including the Ford Fusion SEL and Mercury Milan Premier. (Others not related to this discussion include the Taurus and Taurus X, Mercury Sable, and Lincoln MKZ).
A spokesman even was quoted as saying: "It’s not immediately apparent that the Ford Fusion would be more reliable than the Toyota Camry, but it is, and the Fusion is one of the more reliable family sedans on the market.”
The sky must be falling if even CR recommends a Ford midsize sedan.
can't see them buying a ford soon, but who knows.
one time i counted the cars on my street. only 7 including 2 corvettes out of about 50 were domestic brands, and i have 4 of them.
i was at the oral sugreon the other day and he was talking up ford,
one of my co workers, a lexus driver, was talking up ford to me.
i find it kind of weird.
all i know is some people are loath to not follow their recomendations.
Gee, I knew somebody that had a lot of trouble with an Accord once......I haven't been able to recommend a Honda product since they are all trouble prone according to my vast experience.
Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people do, judge based on experiences with one example: the one they bought and drove. It's hard to give the same model another chance when you got stuck with a lemon. The trick is to have as few of those as possible, since it's impossible to have zero. Honda and Toyota learned that a long time ago. Toyota is starting to forget, but a few years back Ford learned it too. Notice the most reliable seem to be the smaller-volume manufacturers? As Toyota got bigger they started losing their vaunted reliability. Ford is shrinking itself, and now they're "Fantastic On Road Driving" instead of "Found On Road Dead." :shades:
Thanks to the CVT, the engine stays at the power peak when you have your foot to the floor. The Honda's 4-cylinder is 2354cc compared to the Altima which is about 150cc larger, so it makes more torque (but not horsepower, in this case).
The Altima certainly doesn't need more 4-cyl power, as it has excellent fuel economy and good power (180 lb-ft of torque compared with the competition's 160-170).
I haven't driven a current Altima, but I think you could say the same about most midsize cars now. In the past few months I've driven an '08 Accord LX-P (manual) as well as an '08 Milan and an '09 Galant. I'd say that all had sufficient power, but managing that power is crucial, and that's where I saw some real differences.
The 177 hp Accord was particularly well-mannered at all times, and never felt the least bit underpowered. It seemed to get stronger as rpm increased, at least up to about 6000 on the tach. I would have no problem driving this car every day, at least with the manual transmission.
The 160 hp Galant felt torquier than the Accord up to about 80 mph, just fine for normal driving. Above about 4500 rpm it started to run out of breath, and the four-speed automatic occasionally couldn't find a gear that would keep the engine in the sweet spot. It was fine in all kinds of rural driving, but it was not at home in the high-speed cut-and-thrust of Atlanta traffic. I think this engine is related to those used in the Sebring/Avenger and the Sonata, though each manufacturer does some things differently (different cylinder head design?) with the same basic architecture.
The 160 hp Milan delivered sufficient acceleration but sounded strained. It was superb when driven gently, but its weaker torque required more frequent downshifts, and the noise level above 3500 rpm made it the least appealing of the three for driving in hilly terrain or in fast-moving heavy traffic. Like the Galant, it suffered from too few ratios in the autobox. From what I've read here, the 2010 model with its bigger engine and six-speed should remedy the problem nicely.
I think it's a matter of marketing rather than engineering that we seem to see six-speed automatics paired with the larger engines, and the four or five speed automatics with the smaller engines. From what I've experienced, a four-cylinder with either a manual or a six-speed automatic would be perfectly acceptable in a midsize sedan, even with my fairly aggressive driving style.
I've always heard "Fix Or Repair Daily" as the explanation of the FORD abbreviation. That's not been our experience though. We currently own three Ford products, a 1997 Thunderbird, a 2000 Focus station wagon and a 2007 SEL AWD Fusion and also previously owned a 1983 and a 1993 Thunderbird.
You are right, Allen. I have been reading everything I can about that model and it sounds great. Just what the doctor ordered. Now if I could just find some money. :-)