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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    If it was that easy then the Camry V6 would still be on there, but it's not
    wrong - in that same issue CR notes that the V6 Camry had recovered from its original teething problems, was now 'better than average' and now 'recommended'.
    It will be interesting to see whether those Mexican products can maintain their high reliabililty ratings in consideration of finally getting some badly needed upgrades. Any manufacturer (even Toyota) will likely suffer from a reliability perspective if they are truly developing new products, something Ford, in particular, las lagged on.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The real reason that the older cars did fine and the Altima does as well is because of weight. The Altima is made like a typical late 90s car in terms of size and weight. Just over 3100 lbs with the 4 cylinder engine and manual transmission. is very quick. The Pontiac weighs almost 300 lbs more. That's a huge problem because it needs larger tires, larger brakes, and generally handles like the lumbering pig that it is. Unfortunately this is a trend now. I can't honestly think of any normal sedan that's lighter now than it used to be.

    The Milan is fairly light at 3150lbs but it also seems to be the exception to the rule.

    2002 Galant: 3031 lbs
    2009 Galant: 3395 lbs

    2002 Accord: 2943 lbs
    2009 Accord: 3213 lbs

    2002 Grand Prix: 3384 lbs
    2009 Grand Prix: 3477 lbs

    2002 Altima: 2983 lbs.
    2009 Altima: 3145 lbs.

    Oh, and for fun - in the spirit of upsizing:
    1996 Park Avenue: 3536 Lbs. Note - this is a huge car!
    And even more fun:

    1959 Mercedes 220S 2976 Lbs. (first Mercedes "S class" sedan)
    This is a Chevy Bel Air(or current Altima) sized car with wood dash, heavy steel doors, and acres of glass. It makes you wonder exactly what in the world all that extra weight in these more modern smaller cars is for?
    http://www.heckflosse.nl/220sse.htm

    Oh - neat fact - these were the first cars built like modern vehicles. They drive like anything from the 70s or 80s. They also gave away almost all of their safety ideas, which Volvo copied. Crumple zones, safety glass, side impact reinforcement... its a large list of firsts. Drive one sometime if you can :) It took GM until 1987 or so to make a better car. (W body sedans)
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The real reason that the older cars did fine and the Altima does as well is because of weight.

    Plekto, I think you may have missed the point I was making (or you meant to reply to another poster). The cars referenced in my post #11329 were all current designs, and all felt as though they had sufficient engine for the job.

    I agree with you that the MB Fintail sedans were superb vehicles, though I think you'd find they weren't quite the size of the Bel Air you mentioned:

    The '59 MB 220S had a 108 inch wheelbase and was 191 inches long (www.heckflosse.nl/dim4.html) and 70.6 inches wide. The current Altima is dimensionally very close to the 220S: 109.3 inch wheelbase, 189.8 inches long, 70.7 inches wide (www.nissanusa.com). But in 1959 the Chevy Bel Air had a 119 inch wheelbase and was 210.9 inches long and 79.9 inches wide (http://www.chevy59.com/data.htm).

    I prefer the next generation of the MB sedans (W114/115, aka the "/8" sedans introduced in 1968) because of their more sophisticated rear suspension. Back in the '80s I did a lot of driving in a gold '74 280 with very impressive space efficiency, handling, and comfort. That car really set my expectations as to what a car ought to be able to do. Only in the last few years have most midsize sedans been able to exceed those expectations.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    .....and the Ford basher chimes in.

    I guess it's impossible for some to realize the Ford has made tremendous strides to better their product.

    For years, Ford, and all domestics, have lagged behind in the passenger car market. If you have not been living under a rock for the last decade, you would know this. By Ford's own admission, they were concentrating on pick-up trucks and SUV's during this time. The Japanese (Toyota and Honda included) still do not know how to build a pick-up truck that is actually a work horse. Who lags there? Japan. The Tundra still lags behind in durability and functionality to the F-150 and Sierra. Don't get me started on the Oddesey...ahem... I mean Ridgeline....whatta joke of a pick-up.

    Let's get off the Ford bashing because it is obvious those who asses these cars for a living know what they are talking about. It's really getting so stupid about the same things said over and over and over that are just not true anymore.

    "extra, extra....read all about it....Ford builds a good car!!!" welcome to 2009....
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 2006 Fusion was a nice start but was done well before the current leadership got on board. The 2010 Fusion is an example of what the current Ford team can do when given the right incentives and management support.

    Give Ford credit for not waiting for a new platform to make huge changes:

    New IP and center stack
    Manumatic shifting
    6 speed auto and manuals across the board
    upgraded 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines with more power AND better FE
    new hybrid and 3.5L V6 powertrains
    new features - blind spot, cross traffic and rear view camera
    new front and rear styling
    capless fueling

    I'm sure there are a few more. And Ford did all of this just 3 years and 4 months after the Fusion first appeared in dealers. That's unheard of (but also necessary), even for Honda and Toyota.

    Time to give kudos where they've been earned.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    my only point is that for all those features you mention (what the h--- is 'capless fueling') All and/or almost all (depending on the mfgr.) have been available for a number of years on competing models. Ford is simply playing a bit of catch up.

    The fact that Ford has managed to improve quality in the face of their financial problems is certainly worthy of note, even if it has cost a bunch of Americans their jobs.

    This is what I find hard to forgive. Ford has been doing what it has needed to be doing in the last few years and may just be the lone survivor of the 'Big 3'.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    have been available for a number of years on competing models. Ford is simply playing a bit of catch up.

    Umm, exactly WHICH automobile in the class has blind-spot detection? Capless fueling? 6 speed trannys on ALL engines?

    Trannys...GM did 6 speeds, Honda only has 5, Toyota maxes at 5 speeds (weren't they using a 4 speed on the 2.4 liter recently?).

    Blind spot stuff, NONE of them have it. Ford has SURPASSED the competition in several areas, get over it. You hate Ford, that's fine, but try and at least be objective. I hate GM but I'm not going to deny the fact that THEY were in fact the first ones in the class to put 6 speed auto trannies on ALL engines in the Malibu except for the "hybrid" one.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "It’s not immediately apparent that the Ford Fusion would be more reliable than the Toyota Camry, but it is, and the Fusion is one of the more reliable family sedans on the market.”

    That was worded so oddly it needs to be highlighted that CR is saying that the Fusion is more reliable than the Toyota Camry. That is a huge victory for Ford.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    i am a ford guy and i really like one feature they have that none of the others do, the keypad entry.
    i like not having to carry my keys with me when i leave the vehicle.
    drop the keys somewhere inside and retrieve them when you need them.
    if the kids need something out of the car, they know the combination and can get in to get it without the keys.
    right now i am using it because the garage door opener remote in my car isn't working for the most part.
    i back out of the garage, walk over to the explorer which is always parked outside, punch in the entry code, use that remote to close my garage door, lock it back up and drive away in my car. i don't need to carry the explorer keys to do this.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You forgot AWD and Sync - neither of which is available on the Camcordimas.

    Ford didn't just catch up - they've leaped ahead in every category that I can see (with the 2010 model).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, they haven't surpassed in warranty...Hyundai still has it. :) SYnc is very good, though Chrysler has MyGIG.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    True, but a warranty is just an insurance policy and has nothing to do with the vehicle itself. They're purchased, not engineered. And while Hyundai has made huge strides they're still not as reliable as Ford, Honda and Toyota - yet.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    "Blind spot stuff, NONE of them have it. Ford has SURPASSED the competition in several areas, get over it. You hate Ford, that's fine, but try and at least be objective. I hate GM but I'm not going to deny the fact that THEY were in fact the first ones in the class to put 6 speed auto trannies on ALL engines in the Malibu except for the "hybrid" one"

    Ford is really putting a lot into the new Fusion. I look forward to seeing one.

    I have a 6-speed 3.6L Malibu and the transmission is amazing. Ford is using the same one, the factory that makes them is a joint venture Ford/GM.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    though Chrysler has MyGIG.

    Ford does now offer a hard drive with their Nav system. However it is not like MyGIG where you can get it without the Nav so it's not quite as readily available or affordable.

    I'm not a big fan of the whole hard drive in a radio thing but I do know a few people with new Chrysler vehicles and they love their MyGIG. Maybe I need to play with one to truly appreciate it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Does mygig allow you to copy mp3s from usb drives or only from audio cds? Lincoln's 10G hard drive only allows you to copy audio cds, but then again sync also lets you use plug in mp3 players or thumb drives with mp3s in addition to the hard drive recorded songs so that's the best of both worlds.

    And sync can call 911 in an accident - without a built-in phone, extra phone line and national call center to relay the call.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    a new model malibu owner! tell us more. i think you are the first one.
    we know you like the transmission.
    what are your other likes/dislikes?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Blind spot stuff, NONE of them have it.

    Mazda has it in the 2009 Mazda6 and has been using it since 2008 in the CX-9.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I prefer the next generation of the MB sedans (W114/115, aka the "/8" sedans introduced in 1968) because of their more sophisticated rear suspension. Back in the '80s I did a lot of driving in a gold '74 280 with very impressive space efficiency, handling, and comfort. That car really set my expectations as to what a car ought to be able to do. Only in the last few years have most midsize sedans been able to exceed those expectations.
    ****

    Well, I did mention the older ones to make my point more than anything. IMO, a 250SE was about the best of the lot - and the first of the 2nd generation W114/W115 era). Astounding cars, even today, and also why that era's SL roadsters still command a hefty premium. Drive an early 70s SL and it's just amazing how it doesn't show its age. IMO, a trick only a few cars have managed. The 2002Ti and the Porsche 928 are in this group. They seem to defy age in how they drive. And the sedan versions also are very good and under appreciated.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Mazda just joined the midsize class, and that's basically a Fusion anyway. Saying CX-9 has it means nothing since we are specifically discussing the mainstream midsize class: whatshisname was saying Ford was just playing catch up and everything they'd done, someone else had first in the midsize class.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    i back out of the garage, walk over to the explorer which is always parked outside, punch in the entry code, use that remote to close my garage door, lock it back up and drive away in my car.

    Hmm, I guess I'd just put the remote that works in the car that actually goes in the garage, rather than leaving it in the one that sits in the driveway. :confuse:

    If I ever needed to steal a car, I guess I'd start by smashing the windows of the ones with that keypad...figuring one of you guys probably left the keys in the locked car. ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Does mygig allow you to copy mp3s from usb drives or only from audio cds?

    I think only from CDs as well but I'm not positive.

    And sync can call 911 in an accident - without a built-in phone, extra phone line and national call center to relay the call.

    It calls from your cell phone though right? My 74 year old mother does not have a cell phone so she'd be out of luck. I doubt she and my dad would pay the $20 per month OnStar fee, along with all the other GM owners I know, to have it call either though. The tech is out there and improving by the minute. However it's not foolproof just yet. Unless I'm missing something?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Mazda just joined the midsize class, and that's basically a Fusion anyway.

    Mazda has been in the midsize class for years. The 6 has been around since '03, and the 626 was before that.

    And technically, the Fusion is "basically" a 6, since Mazda shared development with Ford on the CD3 platform (or GG/GY in Mazdaspeak), and the 6 was the first to market, a full 3 years before the Fusion went on sale.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, the current 6 is based on the Fusion, which is based on the previous 6. :shades:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, you must have a cell phone of some kind to make the call - either the user's phone (with Sync and bluetooth) or a built-in phone (like OnStar). The advantage with Sync is you only need one cell phone and you can upgrade it whenever you like - Sync doesn't care. With OnStar you need a separate vehicle cell phone number and account in addition to your personal phone and you can't upgrade the one in the vehicle - at least not easily.

    If you already own a cell phone then there is no additional charge with Sync and you're not tied to one phone or phone number.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 06-09 Fusion uses a modified Mazda6 platform (lengthened and widened among other things) called CD3. The 09 Mazda6 and 2010 Fusion both use an updated version of Ford's CD3 platform, which is why the 6 is longer and wider than it used to be.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    the explorer gets driven every day. it just usually goes out after i do and returns before me.

    yes you could smash the window, but then the alarm is going off and you still have to find the keys. try it and let us know how it works out. :P
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    yes you could smash the window, but then the alarm is going off and you still have to find the keys. try it and let us know how it works out

    Then have fun driving down the road in single digit temps with no driver's side window! :surprise:

    I too use that keypad on our Explorer all the time. It's often easier to use it when your hands are tied than to dig in your pocket for the fob.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Read in USA Today today that Ford and Toyota are having a little tiff over who has the highest mpg in a mid-sized car. Toyota wants to make it clear that they have the mid-sized car with the highest fuel economy: Prius. Ford's take: c'mon, everyone knows the target of the Fusion hybrid is the Camry hybrid, as Fusion and Camry are both mid-sized sedans.

    All right now, children, if you don't stop squabbling you will be sent to bed without your supper! :)

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-01-07-toyota-ford-midsize-hybrid_N.htm
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It's often easier to use it when your hands are tied than to dig in your pocket for the fob

    Man, I would move if I got tied up that often. ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Mazda just joined the midsize class

    Where have you been? The Mazda6 has been around since 2002 as a MY2003. BTW, Ford used Mazda's GG/GY platform to develop the Fusion/Milan and Ford saved $10 billion by doing so (something I learned at my recent tour of the Mazda6 factory in Flat Rock, MI).

    Now that Mazda6 is all new for 2009, and the Fusion went under the knife, they are hardly similar, with the exception of a basic platform and a Mazda designed 2.5L power plant. Calling them "basically the same" is such a total lie in regards to their current form. The 06-09 Fusion was almost a rebadged 03-08 Mazda6. Ford used the award winning Mazda6 architecture to get back into the mid-sized segment after the demise of the Taurus. 5 minutes of web surfing would have told you that.

    Saying CX-9 has it means nothing since we are specifically discussing the mainstream midsize class

    Means everything. Ford was not innovative by using a blind spot monitor detection system, Mazda has it in their Mazda6, and has utilized that technology for over a year now.
  • threadsthreads Member Posts: 9
    Actually/technically, Mazda just joined the fullsize class!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Where have you been?

    Surfing the Internet reading about the Fusion/Mazda6 relationship. The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it). Ford took that gen Mazda6 and heavily revised the platform, including lengthening and widening it, to make the Ford Fusion (also added AWD, which was not available on the 6). Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6 with Mazda-tuned suspension and tranny (and probably steering rack but I'm not sure). Still can't get AWD or Sync on the 6 though, which kinda sucks, but what can one do?

    It's not blatant badge-engineering like Cobalt/G5 (or Fusion/Milan, come to think of it) but there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Oh my god is Toyota trying to pass off the Prius as a midsize just to be a pain? The 0.6 is just there so they can say that. All Ford has to do is say they have the highest MPG in a midsize sedan and Toyota will just have to shut up...Prius is a hatchback and not a sedan. :shades: Then again, they could be specific, showing off the greater interior volume, horsepower, AND MPG than competing hybrid sedans (asterisk indicating that the competition is the TCH, NAH, and Chevy Malibu pseudo-hybrid)

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the pistols at noon
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it).

    The 1st-gen 6 counts as a midsize in this forum, and about 99% of all other automotive publications, as well as the EPA classification system.

    It's a midsize. Always has been, probably always will be.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6

    Not to get nit picky, but, that's not true. Again, I visited Auto Alliance International in Flat Rock, MI, and had an extensive lesson about the Mazda6 and learned some valuable information from people on the Mazda6 project and engineer insight.

    there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.

    They are more like third cousins now.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Did they not use Ford's CD3 platform? Or did they modify their existing mazda6 platform? Or something else?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    They modified the existing platform.

    CD3 is what Ford renamed it in reference to their "global" identity. I learned that the platform was not jointly developed, but, rather developed by Mazda alone. Ford was allowed to just use it and modify it. Ford essentially modified a complete Mazda6 and gave the world the Fusion. This saved Ford $10 billion. Yes, $10 billion. Since Ford uses this platform in several vehicles, Ford made out very well.

    The 06-09 Fusion and 03-08 Mazda6 were so very very close. The power plants were identical and transmissions were different. In fact, the dash board architecture were identical. HVAC vents were in the same place. The top center of the dash was a storage compartment. If you were to open up the hood of both I4 and V6 models, you could not tell the difference between the two. Everything was in the same exact place. Where the differences came in were suspension components, steering system, braking system and enhanced frame rigidity points. The Mazda was tuned for performance and the Fusion was tuned for a more forgiving ride.

    What we see now with the 2010 Fusion and 2009 Mazda6 is that they have grown apart. The Mazda6 went the route of improving their award winning vehicle by loading it with technology (keyless ignition, BSMS, Bluetooth phone and audio, Xenon HID lights etc...), larger in size, competitive with fuel economy and still be the best mannered on the road.

    The Fusion has really grown into it's own and really separated it's self from the Mazda. We see it has a more aggressive and sporty design. It offers Sync and other updated technology. It offers 6-speed trannys in every model (which helps it's FE). Interior layout is nothing like the Mazda6 anymore. And Ford added a wonderful Hybrid engine and updated 3.0L (it's about time, too!!)

    As far as I know, the Mazda designed 2.5L and Ford designed V6 (3.5L for Ford and the Mazda built and tuned 3.7L) and the basic platform (which is not a big part of the car), there is not much of a similarity anymore. I'm sure there are some parts that they use the same supplier for, like various electrical components etc...

    We all know that Ford is a little late to the party, however, they are here and they are offering one hell of a car. It's irrevelant how long they took to get here. They are here, and lets hope they are here to stay.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    the kids drive it, so that is their problem. of course, i don't believe that for a second. :surprise:
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    i have a fusion and you can see the bones of the mazda6. all you have to do is look at the plastic cover in the chassis side where the bottom of the door meets the carpet.
    then it drops down another level towards the center of the car.
    makes for a good side impact area.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    And the winner is......Fusion! 23 city, 34 highway. That's an improvement of 3 mpg city and 6 mpg highway (yes, 6!) while also adding more power over the 2009 2.3L I4. Best in class.

    I guess at Ford Fuel Economy is now Job 1!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Link? :)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Here:

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=29670

    And here are the tops of the class:

    Tops of the class:
    2010 Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan 6-spd auto - 23/34

    2009 Chevy Malibu/Pontiac G6/Saturn Aura 6-spd auto - 22/33
    2009 Nissan Altima 6-spd manual - 23/32

    2009 Hyundai Sonata/Kia Optima 5-spd auto - 22/32
    2009 Kia Optima 5-spd manual - 22/32
    2009 Nissan Altima CVT - 23/31


    Ironic no Toyota/Honda on that list (until you go further down).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Toyota's got the same arrogant gene GM does, and will come up with a reason why they actually have best in class mileage (say comparing the Camry Hybrid trim to Ford's I4 or V6). GM's own arrogant gene will lead it to create a stripper XFE Malibu with no options, and optional rear seat, and the weight savings will give it 34.1 MPG with a 6 speed manual, thereby allowing GM to claim they have class-leading fuel economy.

    Dunno about Honda, but they're dangerous and will attempt to top Ford.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    This is developing into a major pissing contest. I noticed how Ford compared the 2.0L engine on the Focus to the 2.4L engine (not 1.8L) on the Corolla in its press release, for example. Since Ford is not above comparing apples to oranges, I can envision other automakers taking Ford to task for claiming the highest FE in a mid-sized sedan. One of the mid-sized (aka "family") sedans in the EPA's group is the Elantra--with 25/33 ratings and 28 overall. The overall rating for the Fusion wasn't mentioned, but it's possible it's no better than 28 and could be less. Also Elantra's city mpg tops Fusion's. So if Hyundai was in the mood, they could pick on Ford for their claim of top fuel economy on a (non-hybrid) mid-sized sedan.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Isn't the Fusion the smallest car in this group? Doesn't it have the least interior room? Shouldn't it have the best fuel economy?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    23/34 mpg is an impressive improvement. This equals the 23 mpg city that was the 2007 rating with the 2.3 engine and the old, much easier EPA test. The Hwy figure is 3 mpg better than the 2007, despite the tougher test.

    This is also 2 mpg city and 4 mpg highway better than the Mazda6 gets from the same engine.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Fusion/Milan is pretty close in size to others in this group, e.g. Altima, Aura, Camry, Malibu, Optima, Sonata. The Accord and Mazda6 are a bit bigger, but that seems to be the trend for sedans--make 'em bigger with each generation. But Ford has the Taurus/Sable for true full-sized cars, so they really don't need a bigger Fusion/Milan, whereas Honda and Mazda have to make their cars fit a broader demographic since they don't offer a true full-sized car.

    Technically, the Elantra and Prius (along with the Spectra) are the smallest cars in the EPA's mid-sized or "family car" class. And guess what? They (Prius and Elantra) get the highest fuel economy in the class (well, Prius for sure for hybrids and Elantra for non-hybrids in the city and maybe overall). No big surprise there--they are considerably smaller, lighter, and lower-powered than the rest of the class. Which makes the EPA results on the 2010 Fulan even more impressive.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Dunno about Honda, but they're dangerous and will attempt to top Ford.

    They're dangerous because... they'll try and remain competetive? Is Honda the "bad guy" to you? Maybe not, but your wording makes it sound that way.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    They should be considered dangerous to Ford because they have the capability to be VERY competitive should they choose to. Nissan too, come to think of it. In that sense, as competition, they ARE dangerous.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    "The Fusion/Milan is pretty close in size to others in this group, e.g. Altima, Aura, Camry, Malibu, Optima, Sonata. The Accord and Mazda6 are a bit bigger, but that seems to be the trend for sedans--make 'em bigger with each generation. But Ford has the Taurus/Sable for true full-sized cars, so they really don't need a bigger Fusion/Milan, whereas Honda and Mazda have to make their cars fit a broader demographic since they don't offer a true full-sized car".

    The Fusion/Milan being undersized is not the point. The point is, it is smaller, so it should get better mileage than an Accord or 6. If you are giving up interior space, shouldn't you be rewarded, with better mileage?
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