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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The trick is finding small images, like these:

    image

    image
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I think there's two main reasons for the relatively (key word) low sales of the 2009 Mazda6 to date:

    1) Word hasn't fully gotten out yet about how much improved the new design is over the old car.

    Or maybe the "improvements" have caused it to lose too much of it's former uniqueness...so why buy it rather than an Accord or a (now much cheaper) Fusion? Saw Motorweek tonight and their review certainly made me feel that, as an owner of the prior version, I'd be disappointed were I to drive one. A couple of their comments:

    family-car soft, pitching and rolling quite a bit through the cones.

    Enthusiasts will find a bit less of the brand's sporting character than before, yet it remains more of a driver's car than the competition.

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2811b.shtml

    Seems like pretty faint praise to me...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ...so why buy it rather than an Accord or a (now much cheaper) Fusion?

    I can think of two reasons right off the bat: far superior styling and design, inside and out.

    Also for someone buying a car right now, the Fusion is hard to find with ESC---standard on the Mazda6. Not an issue with the 2010 Fusion of course, or the Accord.

    Interesting that the Motorweek review was much different from C/D's opinion. They said:

    ... the Mazda showed that its ability to zig and zag hasn't been diminished too much by its size increase.

    They also said the 6 had more overtly sporty suspension tuning than the Accord's, but that the ride of the 6 was if anything too harsh--not "family-car soft" as Motorweek said. Different strokes for different folks I guess. You might want to drive it to see what you think of it, rather than taking Motorweek's (or C/D's) word for it.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    I don`t think the differences between Accord LX and the Camry LE the trim levels are a lot,,,,more so for folks buying these 2 sedans,,as their main needs are quality,value and reliability.
    Also,I don`t think people spending 20-25k on a car would be particularly concerned about one model being a grand less.I don`t think the difference between 24k and 25k would be enough for folks to consider a different model.
    Accord and Camry buyers have totally different buyers though- one needs a reliable ,peppier drive,the other needs a reliable ,soft and comfy drive.
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    I was in a Mazda6 last week. The interior of the GT model is gorgeous. The front and rear seats were very comfortable. I've seen the Accord, Camry, and Altima, but haven't sat in them.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230

    Or maybe the "improvements" have caused it to lose too much of it's former uniqueness...so why buy it rather than an Accord or a (now much cheaper) Fusion? Saw Motorweek tonight and their review certainly made me feel that, as an owner of the prior version, I'd be disappointed were I to drive one.

    Have you ACTUALLY driven one? Can you accurately say that you'd be disappointed in the '09 if you haven't?

    Well, I have, and I was NOT disappointed. I'll admit that there was a slight decline in the overall sportiness of the 6 compared to the 1st-gen, but in return, you get a car with more room in the back (which IMO it needed), a larger trunk, a HUGE improvement in interior materials and fit-and-finish, and more power with the same fuel economy. It still felt polished and composed when cornering hard, still had excellent brakes which were easy to modulate, still had accurate steering, and IMO is still the Drivers car of the class.

    As my mother always said, "Don't knock it 'till you tried it." Well, I did, and it's at the top of my list to replace my current 6, at least until I get some drive time in the 2010 Fusion Sport.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Have you ACTUALLY driven one?

    No, I sat in one and was disappointed that they seem to have downsized the seat cushion...the not quite long enough seat being a vehicular pet-peeve of mine. I am also not a fan of the super-sized RX-8 looks, the cheap black plastic filler in place of glass in the rear windows, or the "luxurious" chrome trim around the windows.

    Can you accurately say that you'd be disappointed in the '09 if you haven't?

    I did not say that, I said the review made me feel that I would be disappointed were I to drive one. I have no reason to drive one, as I am not in the market for a replacement of my beloved 2007 :) . Were I in the market, I'd probably lean toward the Fusion or a compact, since mid-size cars are mostly being super-sized now.

    I probably should go look for a "compact sedan comparison" thread on here.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I was talking about the differences between the Accord LX-P and Camry LE trims. I think the alloys and ESC (VSA) on the Accord are signficant. Maybe others don't.

    If you don't think $1000 is a significant difference, fine. But if you don't believe it's significant for other buyers, take a look sometime at the various "Prices Paid" discussions, where people are searching high and low for prices that are only $100 or so less than what they've already been quoted. For them, $1000 would be VERY significant.
  • robbiegrobbieg Member Posts: 346
    I disagree with you. Buying a car is a two step process picking the model and negotiating the price. In picking the model I don't think people exclude a car because it costs a thousand more than another model. However, after having decided on the model people want to get the best deal possible. People don't want to spend an extra thousand if they don't have to. At some point people choose a model because of price. However, I think the price difference has to be be around $3000. One only need look at Sonata boards to realize that people have picked the Sonata because of the significant price difference between a Sonata and an Accord, for example.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    People after deciding to buy a Camry/Accord then decide on the trim llevels and want the lowest price.But to say that people spending 20-25k on a new car would select a different model just for 1k is unrealistic.
    If so,then everyone would buy a kia/suzuki/hyundai/dodge with rebates b`cos they are thousands less.The difference there would be 3k-5k which is significant.But the difference between 24k and 25 k is negligible in deciding a model.
    To say everyone buys a camry just b`cos its a grand less is not true.People who can afford 24k can afford 25k.It`s not like deciding between 20k and 25k.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    And that's how people find financial difficulties. "This car is only a thousand more!" "This house is only $15,000 more!"

    Soon, you're upside down and can't pay for things.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    You dont end up in financial difficulties if u can afford a 24k/25k car.You can buy a 23k very unreliable car--- U end up in even worse financial mess,poor resale ,negative equity.
    If u are concerned about 1k ,,,then buying a 25k new car should never be your option.U need to be looking at used cars in the 10k or less range and even then buy reliable cars.What is the point of buying an unreliable car for 1k less,,,when it is going to cost much more in repairs?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I dont mean that one instance, but if you live your life in the way that "well, I can pay this, but this is only X dollars more!" You'll end up in trouble.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I guess my car-buying process is different from yours. I never narrow down my car search for only one model. That is asking for trouble when it comes to negotiating price. Instead, I narrow my list down to a set of cars that "cross the bar" wrt my requirements. Then I start the negotiations, and also consider factors such as dealer location and quality.

    So if I am considering two car models, both of which meet my needs, and one is $1000 less than the other after negotiations are said and done, and there's no other major considerations such as availability of dealer service, the decision becomes pretty simple.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    I agree.People need to have a budget range and stick to it.Say between 22k-25k for a car and stick to it.Maybe just a little bit wriggle room but not much.
    So finalize your budget,,select what type u need--car/suv/van,,check reliability ratings and reviews and then take the plunge.
    There is no excuse nowadays for people going to a dealer uninformed due to so much internet info.U can spend hours on the net for an LCD TV but dont have the time to review and check car ratings??Not acceptable in this day and age.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    In your case its OK,b`cos u are comfortable with both the models ,,so u can let price decide the factor.
    But for a majority,,they decide a model and then they want the lowest price.And no point,,if just for 1k less,,u buy an unreliable car,,a car u dont like etc etc.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The good thing about cars these days is that the vast majority of models in this market have overcome reliability issues. Ford's Fusion is a great example of Big-3 Improvement.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    In your case its OK,b`cos u are comfortable with both the models ,,so u can let price decide the factor.
    But for a majority,,they decide a model and then they want the lowest price.And no point,,if just for 1k less,,u buy an unreliable car,,a car u dont like etc etc

    It was about 3k less to buy a car I don't like...I didn't realize I didn't like it as much at the time, but still it was about 3k to go from the Accord EX to a MazdaSpeed6 Sport, and another 2k to get to a Grand Touring. MDW has suggested it would've been worth 3-5 to not hear me complain for the last 2 years about buying a boring car. :D

    I can't think of a car that is competitive in this segment that would qualify as unreliable.
  • robbiegrobbieg Member Posts: 346
    The other thing to consider is that most people buy a car not based on price but on payments. $1000 spread out over 5 years is what like 25 bucks a months. Less than what most people spend on coffee in a month.

    What is the most popular term for financing a vehicle? I am guessing it is either 4 or 5 years.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Maybe your timing was just off? At the time I bought my mazda6 the speed6 was going for maybe about $23K, IIRC. I'm guessing that would have been competitive with the Accord EX on price.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's $25 more than I spend on coffee in a month. ;)
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Yes,,Maybe if we spend 25 bucks less on a weekend dinner once a month,,then it can be affordable ++ as an added bonus u get to lose some weight too!! Hopefully ;)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Maybe your timing was just off? At the time I bought my mazda6 the speed6 was going for maybe about $23K, IIRC. I'm guessing that would have been competitive with the Accord EX on price.

    Yeah, that is when I was shopping too, 20k was about my limit to spend in July of '07. The Accord EX was discounted from 23.5k to 19k. I can't imagine paying over 20k for that car. As it stands now, according the the price guides its worth about 14 on trade in, so it dropped about 5k in 2 years which seems better than dropping 8.5k in 2 years. As Mr. T would say, I pity the fool...

    Still, I probably would've come out a head buying something I liked more in the first place, and saved my wife listening to me whine about it.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The 2009 Chevrolet Malibu hits a high-water mark for its size and price with taut proportions, elegant lines and a crisp, clean profile. Its split grille represents the new global face of Chevrolet cars, and its twin round taillamps are traditional Chevy cues. With tight panel gaps and rich-looking details, this new mid-size Chevy looks like $40,000 while starting at half that price.

    Current rebate puts the LS into the upper $19's. These came out at 19,995 in 2007. They added ESC and lowered the price since then. KBB puts a 1 yr old one at $12,500 but a 100 mile radius search found only 2 for sale and the lower priced one was $13,800 with over 28k miles on it. At least locally, they almost hit KBB predicted value drops of 42% of 22,605 in year one. You can get one new in the high 18's so the drop you feel is more like $5k for 2 yrs worth of miles, but isn't that about the same as a Camcord? Would you pay more than $16 for a 28k mi used Camry that was $21k new OTD? That's the only fault they found in the Malibu review by KBB.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Well, I have, and I was NOT disappointed. I'll admit that there was a slight decline in the overall sportiness of the 6 compared to the 1st-gen, but in return, you get a car with more room in the back (which IMO it needed), a larger trunk, a HUGE improvement in interior materials and fit-and-finish, and more power with the same fuel economy. It still felt polished and composed when cornering hard, still had excellent brakes which were easy to modulate, still had accurate steering, and IMO is still the Drivers car of the class.

    I agree.

    I don't think I have run into anyone on here who has spent as much time in both gen1 and gen2 Mazda6's then me and I will agree with that statement in it's entirety.

    It's nice to know that a company listens to the negative feedback in reference to their cars and actually improves almost every aspect that needed improvement.

    Quality? Check
    Materials used? Check
    Fuel economy? Check
    More Power? Check
    Large enough to compete with class leaders? Check
    Safety content? Check
    Sporty design? Check
    Make it drive like a Mazda? Check
    More content? Check

    Seems they did a good job to me.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yet Mazda6 sales are down about 49%, year to date. Yes, everything is down, but I would guess that is a greater than average decline, meaning a reduced market share for the new mazda6. Also these declines are from what were already, I believe, disappointing (to Mazda) sales numbers for the previous version.

    http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content/mazda-reports-february-2009-sales

    They just may find that this "me too-ism" does not work.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The decline in sales of the Mazda6 is very close percentage-wise to declines for cars like the Accord and Camry. This is not a Mazda6-specific problem. Maybe it's not a reflection on the 6 redesign as it is of the car market in general, and other, lower-priced models such as Sonata (UP year-to-date in sales compared with 2008) taking market share from the higher-priced models. The Mazda6 is suffering too from being one of the highest-priced cars in this class, out the door, due to lower incentives and discounts for this all-new design compared to most competitors. The higher price is a big contrast to the ultra-low closeout prices Mazda was offering on the old 6 at this time last year, e.g. a very nicely equipped Mazda6i VE for around $16k.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Chevrolet Malibu - What the Auto Press Says: The Malibu now threatens the traditional favorites in this class. It's a viable alternative to the popular Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, and should be on your test drive list before you put money down on either of those. If you're looking for something more exciting, however, many find the all-new 2009 Mazda6 a more enthusiastic ride, particularly in corners, and a better-looking car.

    • Measured against the Honda Accord, "On a curvy road, the Chevy heightens the fun factor, providing superior ride composure, the ability to perform fingertip shifts, and communicative, albeit slightly heavy, steering that carves tighter, crisper lines. Hop on the highway, and the Malibu continues to separate itself, delivering a softer, quieter ride and power that, while down 14 horses, seems to pull more strongly and naturally." - Motor Trend

    Malibu has 2750 rebate that gets you ESC, auto, great looks, and the top consumer's ratings(9.4) for High 18's with little negoiating time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I'm sure the price is part of it, but Accord is "only" off 37% year to date, I doubt that either they or Mazda would consider that to be close to the same as a 49% decline. Selling at 63% of prior years rate (a 37% drop) would be nearly 25% more units than selling 51% represents.

    http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1097/releases/4957

    The Fusion is also "only" down 35% ytd.

    http://media.ford.com/images/10031/February09sales.pdf

    If this new Mazda6 is so much more appealing than the old one, it would not, I think, be seeing a 49% drop. Or put it this way, perhaps it is more appealing to the average buyer, but there is no real reason for that average buyer (who is looking for a transportation appliance) to prefer the Mazda6 over the Accord or Camry.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    The problem with the malibu and the aura-- are not 1-2 yr dependability,performance or even long term resale.The problem,I would say is long term relaibility.Any sedan nowadays is ok till 60-70k miles,,but the true indicator of reliability is how cars perform after 75k miles.
    In that aspect,Camry and Accord have a long lasting record.Whereas the malibu and aura are relatively unknown .Yes first 3 or 4 years ,they are fine,,after that who knows?
    If the quality has really improved,,it would take atleast 5 more years for real long term reliability.
    Same thing for the fusion.Lasts 3 years were good.Now the real test comes in the next 3 - 4 years.
    Honda and Toyota did not get an easy pass..They have decades of proven reliability to back up their record.
    Infact ,i would say,,cars nowadays have an easier pass than say some 20 years ago.The first toyota,honda and hyundai cars were the butt of all jokes.
    But see, how remarkably they have reached the top.Infact,,if any,,american sedans get an easier pass-- just an improvement over a previous model becomes a game changer.Maybe very true,,but long term reliability trends are needed.[[ and long term is like 85k+miles or more ,,not 30k miles]]
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    I am living proof you don't have to pay the premium price that Honda and Toyota demand for their vehicles either new or used. I am one of those folks who test drove and test drove every car in this segment before settling on a domestic brand vehicle in 2006. I paid between $3,000 - $5,000 less for a like optioned vehicle. I was told by many Honda/Toyota owners that I would be sorry, my car would break down, ect.. Well, after 42,000 trouble free, squeak free, rattle free miles, now what argument? I made a great choice and have never looked back.. I believe I am a growing number of consumers that are finding out that you don't need to pay a lot of $$$ to get a reliable, well made vehicle. :shades:
    And before this vehicle I owned another domestic vehicle that went over 110,000 miles with no issues. Looks to me this argument of longterm reliability is down the tubes. There is also an article on the net about how a New York cab company using Escape Hybrids that have well over 100,000 reliable miles on them..
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Cannon3, it's true that most cars are reliable in the first 100k miles (or 75k, or whatever lesser number you choose). So your 42k trouble-free miles, which would have been noteworthy 20-30 years ago, really can't tell us much.

    Expectations have changed. Customers now expect far more than 100k miles of reliability. So it's too soon to tell if your 2006 model is really going to be reliable over the long haul. It probably will be, if it's a recent Ford or GM midsize sedan, but we don't know yet.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Did you look at the numbers for February? The Mazda6's percentage decline is within a point or two of Accord and Camry. In fact I think those cars were a little higher percentage-wise in sales drop-offs in February than the Mazda6. So the current trend is looking better for the Mazda6--maybe due to increased incentives of late?

    Don't you think the huge price difference between the 2008 close-out specials and the all-new 2009s has something to do with the sales drop-off? This was not a factor for Accord, Camry, or Fusion, at least up until now. It will be interesting to see how Fusion sales hold up if incentives and discounts are cut for the 2010 models. Will sticker shock reign?
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    As I said in my post above #12072,,, all modern cars are ok till 60-70k miles.Nowadays folks drive to more than. 120k miles easily.
    And it is the long term reliability which is important.
    42k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing.Wait till 85k atleast for long term reliability.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Not only are the sales drops in percentage about the same as the CamCord, but you also have to remember that at least 30% of sales of the 6 in 2008 were to fleets (rental agencies). For '09, I've heard from more than one source that those fleet sales have been scaled back considerably.

    Considering I've seen (and rented) more than a few previous-gen 6's, while not seeing a single '09 rental yet...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Coincidentally, the last rental I had (Hertz) was a 2008 Mazda6i. They originally gave me a 3, but its battery was dead. I was glad it was, because it was in LA and the 6 handled the bumpy freeways much better than the 3 (I got a 3 on my previous trip there and it was not a pleasant experience). I appreciated the handling of the 6 too. As good as the new 6 is, the old one was a pretty darn nice car also, with clean styling that I think will hold up well over time and a back seat that, while not biggest in the class, is fine for kids or even two normal-sized adults, if the people in front are under 6 feet.

    I am actually sad that there are fewer Mazda6's in fleets now, because it means I'll have little chance of getting one as a rental car. Might have to get something like a Sebring. :(
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    Folks,

    The Malibu I rented was an '08 LT version which is probably the mid level new version. And I stand by what I wrote earlier Vanman...the '08 Accord LX-P that we traded into was a far superior car...it even had a FULL power seat instead of the 1/2 one which cheap GM has in the few GM cars I've rented recently. The Accord could've been the EX model, but it did have cloth seats and a 8 way power seat. And about the articles people have wrote...articles, smarticles! I go by how the cars drive according to my tastes, not some writer. This is the reason why the Camcord's are head and shoulders above the Malibu/Aura twins from GM.

    We each have own own opinions no matter what you might think and all I can say is just look at the numbers...the numbers don't lie and they tell what the majority of mid size sedan drivers want to buy. Personally, I wouldn't really buy a GM mid sizer no matter how much of a rebate it had. That "intangible goodness" I always refer to just isn't there in the GM offerings. It's like "class"...either you have it, or you don't...period!

    That's the great thing about these forums, we can all "agree to disagree".

    The Sandman :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    As I said in my post above #12072,,, all modern cars are ok till 60-70k miles.Nowadays folks drive to more than. 120k miles easily.
    And it is the long term reliability which is important.
    42k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing.Wait till 85k atleast for long term reliability.

    This is good. A guy saves $3000-5000 up front, and the mistake he is unknowingly making is a reliability drop off after 85,000 miles as compared to the reliability drop off of a Camcord? By that time, the savings is turned into $5-7000 with interest and if the Domestic car needs a few hundred dollars repair after the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty expires, that's a disaster?

    I bought 3 used domestics in the 85,000 mile range since 2004. That is 5 years on one, 4 years on another, and 2 years on the third one since then. 136,000 miles have been added to them in those 11 years of ownership. Only one refused to start once and it was the starter motor at 168k miles. They have needed very little and they are late 90's models which are from about 3 generations ago in Domestic quality. Important? They could have been twice as unreliable and it would still be insignificant.

    Per KBB: Chevrolet's Malibu has bolted from middle-of-the-road contender straight to the top of the mid-size sedan game. The 2009 Malibu looks wonderful, is solidly built and carefully crafted inside and out, offers good fuel economy, drives wonderfully and is priced to sell in serious volumes. The 2009 Chevrolet Malibu's bold, attractive sheetmetal and stylish interior touches are backed by confident handling, a quiet ride and an overall level of refinement competitive with the category's best.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    • Comparing the Malibu's available V6 to Accord's well-liked V6 "The Accord and Malibu perform about as similarly as possible: 0 to 60 is a push; the quarter mile goes to the Accord by a tenth; 60 to 0 to the Malibu by four feet; lateral acceleration separated by a scant 0.01 g; and a figure-eight advantage to the Chevy by 0.4 second. It's plausible that the numbers represent two runs by the same car." -- Motor Trend
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    I only had the Malibu for about 100 miles until we had some issues. Both the Accord and the Malibu had similar mileage, about 12k on the odo, but the 4 cylinder Accord drove much better than the 6 in the Malibu. The Accord was just lighter on it's feet and we had both trunks stuffed with my daughters belongings...the Malibu just drove very sluggish, like the Caddies and Lincolns my folks ha in the '60's and '70's...felt like an "old persons" car basically.

    The Sandman :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    I meant,,all new cars SHOULD run 60-70k miles with no problem.Doesn`t mean all new cars DO RUN that many miles with no problems.
    And based on all surveys,Hondas and Toyotas do that.
    The Malibu is just average in reliability.Doesn`t mean cars will stall or breakdown on the freeway.
    Concept of reliability has changed in the past few years.It means problem free,low maintenance ,good fit and finish quality materials without annoying disturbances.Toyota and Honda are top in that segment.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I meant,,all new cars SHOULD run 60-70k miles with no problem. Doesn`t mean allnew cars DO RUN that many miles with no problems. And based on all surveys,Hondas and Toyotas do that.

    If you mean based on all surveys, all Hondas and Toyotas run 60-70k miles with no problems... that is not the case. At least according to one of the biggest and best-known surveys, from Consumers Union. Also according to that survey, the Malibu is above average in reliability--same rating as the Accord, and above the Camry.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    My '07 Accord EX doesn't have the "FULL power seat instead of the 1/2 one which cheap GM has in the few GM cars I've rented recently" and I never really thought it was bad. Now I feel second class. :sick:

    And for the 3rd time, the '06 MazdaSpeed6 on Autotrader was already sold when I called. I think dealers are cutting back, not updating their ads, not responding to emails, and basically unless you are right there, not really paying attention to you. I guess that might be how the D3 cut back on their dealer network.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Salespeople at new car dealers have been very responsive to emails from me, I am helping my kid shop for a new car. Out of date info on autotrader is is nothing new.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    KBB: Chevrolet's Malibu has bolted from middle-of-the-road contender straight to the top of the mid-size sedan game. The 2009 Malibu looks wonderful, is solidly built and carefully crafted inside and out, offers good fuel economy, drives wonderfully and is priced to sell in serious volumes. The 2009 Chevrolet Malibu's bold, attractive sheetmetal and stylish interior touches are backed by confident handling, a quiet ride and an overall level of refinement competitive with the category's best.

    Circle is what you go in. stability control, resale, handling, sluggish, fit and finish, not top, now reliability. gotta skip stability control this time through, go right to resale.
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    Have to disagree - I test drove the Accord and Camry last May while shopping. Found the Aura more impressive and bought my first Saturn. I've owned Hondas and Toyotas in the past, and, have yet to experience their "fabulous" reliability.

    Regards:
    Oldengineer
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If so, watch out, other mid-sizers! Hyundai is getting serious about styling on its sedans!

    http://www.hyundai-blog.com/index.php/2008/12/15/next-generation-hyundai-sonata-- yf-renderings/
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    First of all, I cannot see a single picture of the alleged 2010 Sonate, and second...there never was anything wrong with their styling.Especially since 2006.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    The 2010 looks awesome...much more mainstream Camcordish. It just looks like a beefier car with a very aggressive stance. The sides look similar to the new 2010 Mazda 3 with that same crease line going through the door handles. The front looks similar to the '05-'06 Camry and I also see a resemblance to the current Caddy CTS down the flanks.

    All in all, this new model should bring Sonata numbers up if the price and fit and finish are dead on with the Camcords. I suspect the pricing will undercut the other family sedans just to bring in foot traffic to the Hyundai stores. Once people see it and drive it, have no doubt that it'll sell in numbers that will dwarf the current generation Sonata. Job well done Hyundai! :)

    The Sandman :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    It's bold, I'll say that. I need to see more views, but it definitely looks like an improvement.
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