Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

1250251253255256544

Comments

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Two things I really like about that Suzuki: Lack of chrome...no chrome on the grill (except the "S"), no chrome around the side windows (yay!!!!) and no cheap black plastic filler in the rear side window area.

    Not a fan of the too-many-spoked alloys though.

    If it is true that it is a smaller midsize, that'd be another positive to me.

    in a shade of my favorite car color, red :confuse:
    You should get checked for color blindness.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    He said he would like to see it in his favorite color red, not that the car in the picture is red. Check out the msg heading.

    I don't mind chrome if it's tastefully done. I know some would say chrome can't be done tastefully at all but I like it on certain cars like the Jetta. I think Suzuki could reduce the size of the "S" both outside and inside the vehicle and it would look a little classier. Bigger is not always better.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I know that most people that have commented on other sites have said the new '10 Accord Crosstour is ugly. I rarely say any car is ugly(I even didn't mind the Aztek that much) but am leaning towards agreeing on this one. Honda just seems to be shooting itself in the foot on design lately.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    In the next 5 years Malibu will become number one seller followed by Accord, Fusion, Camry, Altima, Sonata, Mazda 6. This is just sales numbers.

    Its possible, although not probable that some of this may occur. However, I believe both Malibu and Fusion are capacity restricted. If Malibu follows Fusion with good reliability over the next few years and GM can expand capacity, it could take off if the rumors are true that the next version due in a couple of years is a real styling stunner. I don't see Accord going past Camry because styling aside, I don't think Honda wants its volume that high. One of the Accord selling points is best resale value. Camry can sell a lot of vehicle content and packaging at a very aggressive price when it needs to. Fusion is nice, but I'm not sure its as nice as Camcord and that's probably why it generally sells at a noticeable discount to them. Sonata has to overcome persistent consumer reluctance to buy Korean. Its next styling may help that. Altima is stale and quickly becoming the Impala replacement in the fleet market. Mazda unfortunately kind of remains undefined in many consumer's minds.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    He said he would like to see it in his favorite color red, not that the car in the picture is red. Check out the msg heading.

    Ah, now I understand. (I hardly ever read the title area, as it usually has nothing do with the post)

    When this sort of thing is done, it should be like so:

    Title: I would love to see

    Message: ...the Suzuki...

    having "the" not capitalized and preceded by "..." in the message would be a clue that you are missing something by looking only at the message
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    This is the first I have heard of this crosstour. It appears from pictures that we have now come full circle back to the old conventional station wagon (though they will avoid calling it that like the plgue).
  • james1982james1982 Member Posts: 73
    It appears from pictures that we have now come full circle back to the old conventional station wagon (though they will avoid calling it that like the plgue).

    Haha, well said, Jeffy. I wish more manufacturers would bring the wagon versions of their sedans back. Personally, I liked the wagon Accords and Volvos.

    Long live the wagon! *Ahem* I mean long live the "crossover/crosstour/cross-whatever they have to call it to avoid calling it a wagon"
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I wish they would have just designed it to be and look like a wagon. The design they came up with is just terrible looking. It reminds of something but can't put my finger on it. I know it's midsize and all but it sort of reminds me of a Pinto or a large Prius/Insight from the 3/4 rear view.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Interesting. Since I'm probably not as handy as you are I would be paying at least $1000+ more for labor. I guess I would never invest that kind of extra money in a car I didn't like that well in the first place. I think all those aftermarket addons would eventually hurt future value as well but I understand that you plan on keeping it for awhile and want to like it while you do. Good luck.
  • james1982james1982 Member Posts: 73
    I wish they would have just designed it to be and look like a wagon. The design they came up with is just terrible looking. It reminds of something but can't put my finger on it. I know it's midsize and all but it sort of reminds me of a Pinto or a large Prius/Insight from the 3/4 rear view.

    I agree, there is something about it that looks off. It looks kind of Dodge Magnum-ish. Maybe it's just been a long time since we've seen an Accord wagon. But, I'm with you - something about it just doesn't sit right.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    if you change up the tires, you might lose a noticable chunk of your 38 mpg.
    i changed the tires on my focus and went from 30 to 26.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    thanks for the info on your maintenance schedule. i do things every 5k.
    the brakes don't seem to generate a lot of dust, so it would be great if they last longer than 50k.
    my last car had tires rated for about 30k , but i got about 40 before i swapped them out and they were still legal.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I think it does look pretty much like just a regular wagon.

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But that's not the one they chose to use. I wish it was.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The design they came up with is just terrible looking. It reminds of something but can't put my finger on it.

    Aztek!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Aztek? I think you must be joking. Actually I hadn't seen the picture that jeffyscott posted before and from that angle it looks more like a regular station wagon. I saw several pictures from the rear 3/4 angle and it looked like some kind of slanted hatchback that wasn't pretty. Just goes to show you that it can be hard to judge something from a few pictures.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The picture posted by jeffyscott is not the US-market Crosstour. That's the European-market Accord Wagon, which is quite nicely proportioned and would probably be in my driveway if it were available here.

    Unfortunately, here's the Crosstour we'll see stateside:

    image
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Aztek? I think you must be joking.

    A little. But not entirely.......
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    if you change up the tires, you might lose a noticable chunk of your 38 mpg.
    i changed the tires on my focus and went from 30 to 26.


    Research baby, research. I don't plan to slap a set of tires on that just look nice, they have to have low rolling resistance as well as as close as possible footprint. Right now it has 16's, the wheels I picked out are 17's, which means I can go from 60 series to 50-55 series, and there are a lot of them out there in 17's that are good for low rolling resistance. The overall diameter will stay the same, and if I could find the exact same wheel in 16's, then tires wouldn't be an issue. The wheels I found are Camry/Lexus upgrades, and really look nice.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Aztek!!! My EYES!!!!!!!!! UGGHGh, now that is the worlds ugliest thing ever!!!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, that sure doesn't look like a wagon. Won't haul like a wagon, either. Actually it looks quite a bit like my Elantra GT--bigger and a bit sleeker though.

    Someone out there thinks Americans won't buy a car like this unless it doesn't look like a wagon. I don't think the Mazda6 wagon sold very well, did it? Really practical, though.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That's the one!. The slope in the back is the thing I don't like. It cuts down on the ability to carry large or longer square boxes and it just looks like a Pinto to me. Maybe the slope, ala Prius style, makes for a lot better aerodynamics for better mpg. I don't know but for usefulness I would also prefer the European Accord station wagon.

    I agree that the Mazda6 station wagon didn't seem to sell that well but maybe it was a bit before it's time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Thanks for the correction. That thing is awful, but then those that have tried to sell wagons and hatchbacks that look okay or even good have pretty much failed in the US. Mazda6 wagon and hatchback were basically replaced by one or the other of those less attractive CX vehicles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    i did my homework, it just didn't work out for some reason. when i put a set of the original style tires back on after a month the mileage went up to 28, but not back to 30. i hope it works out for you.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Here is an example of an attractive hatch version of a midsize sedan, unlike that Accord:

    image
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Isn't that the same basic shape as the Cross tour? It slopes down in the rear, just like the CT. I will agree that this car looks more up-scale, but it probably cost twice as much as the CT? It also looks better than any other car in this class, and it should for the price.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    image

    Yup, Crosstour, the stuff dreams are made of alright. How did we go this far backwards? The previous generation Mazda6 hatch was pretty good looking IMHO.

    Sloping the back like that hurts cargo capacity. That was the limitation of this styled wagon:
    image
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Attractive?

    image

    Maybe I'm the minority here, but this isn't attractive to me. Below are three vehicles which are more simple, less overstlyed, and to me, a much cleaner, more inherently attractive design.

    image
    image
    image

    Call me crazy, the more basic lines, the less funky rear-ends, and the sharper edges look better to me than the new Bimmer front end swoops and rear-end droops.

    And the Crosstour? Well, I'll withold judgment until I see it, but I don't have high hopes.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    That color choice is especially poor but yeah I am with you there.

    Honda has had a rough time lately when the new model is uglier than the outgoing model. This seems to be more affecting the Acura division. but the current Civic brought the return of the dustbuster front we haven't seen since the Lumina APV. The best thing the FIt has going for it is once inside, you can't see the outside. Even the '92 Civic was much more Shamoo-like than the outgoing version (the Chevy Caprice did the same thing at that point).

    I am trying to think of another brand with that affliction right now; maybe BMW? I am much less a fan of the current Focus compared the the previous generation, but new Taurus kicks butt of old Taurus, Fusion doesn't seem to be any worse...the new Buick Lexus looks better than the outgoing one...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    To get us back on topic, I'll simply say that I like the current Civic better than the previous one, but I had to warm up to it.

    We should give awards, like a Who's Who of midsize cars.

    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales
    Best Looking
    Smartest Value Buy
    Most Athletic
    Most Brand Spirit

    Things of that nature.

    Your pics and new categories? :shades:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "Isn't that the same basic shape as the Cross tour?"

    Yeah, that was really the point...that the same basic shape in terms of the sloping rear, without looking awful. While a BMW is much pricier, a car does not have to cost a lot to look good (as evidenced by the prior generation of the Mazda3 and Mazda6, for example)..
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales: Toyota Camry. Old habits are hard to break, despite considerable evidence that Hyundai actually builds better Toyotas than Toyota does.

    Best Looking: Entirely subjective, but I'll nominate the Chevy Malibu. It offers conservative good looks in the lower line models, and really attractive interior styling in the upper levels. Most midsize customers aren't looking for drama--just good taste, and here the Malibu is a very good choice.

    Smartest Value Buy: There are a lot of choices here. As tempted as I am by the big warranty and fat discounts offered by Hyundai and Kia, I'd say the Ford Fusion is my top pic in this category. Good mpg and reliability don't hurt either.

    Most Athletic: Tough call. I haven't seen any final reviews of the 2010 Legacy, whose previous editions have been strong contenders in this category. For now, it's probably the Nissan Altima, but there's a lot of action in this category.

    Most Brand Spirit: Zoom zoom. They haven't marketed it very effectively, but the Mazda 6 fits nicely in a brand image that emphasizes affordable entertainment. The Nissan Altima would be a good fit here, if Nissan's lower-level offerings had the same spirit, but they don't come close.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales: Kind of depends what is meant by "succeed". If it's sheer volume, I don't see the Camry being unseated anytime soon, especially since a new Camry will be coming before a new Accord. If it's increase in sales, I'd go for the Fusion, or maybe the new Legacy.

    Best Looking: Mazda6, of the currently available cars.

    Smartest Value Buy: Optima

    Most Athletic: Passat

    Most Brand Spirit: For now, the Accord. But I think the 2011 Sonata may be a defining moment for Hyundai as a brand.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Succeed in Sales: Camry. Just too far ahead in sales now and I think they're learning some lessons and will correct a lot of the quality and interior problems.
    Best Looking: Fusion Sport
    Smartest Value Buy: Fusion. The Optima/Sonata would be first only if one holds onto for many many years and that is too big of caveat. The Fusion would be a good buy both on the shorter and long term.
    Most Athletic: Mazda6
    Most Brand Spirit: Not really sure what this means. I would lean towards the Mazda6 for this one as well.
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    Most Likely to succeed in sales: This is a very tough call. For now, I'd say Camry, but I think this previous generation may have scared away some of the Camryites that have followed it for previous years. Currently, I think the Malibu, Mazda6, and Fusion may be making some headway, but they're all far from being class leaders.

    Best Looking: Mazda6. Large but stylish, both inside and out. That being said, the latest generation of Accord has steadily grown on me as well... especially the Coupe.

    Smartest Value: Sonata. Price, price, price, and a very nice list of features for not a lot of money.

    Most Athletic: Altima. Gas 'er up and let 'er rip! Not the fastest 0-60, not the largest (probably the smallest in this class), and not the most ornate interior, but as soon as you flip it into drive, forget about everything else... just drive. This car is a ball on the twisties (for a FWD car.)

    Most Brand Spirit: Wow... that's a tough one. Either Mazda or VW. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to go with VW since Mazda still has the dreaded Tribute and B-class trucks in their recent history. That killed it for them. VW embodies class and driving dynamics rolled into a very nice package. However, you're going to pay for the "spirit."

    Hmmmmmm... I'm going to add a few categories:

    Most Disappointing: The only car that has no character at all is the Dodge twins: Avenger and Sebring. Lackluster engines, no driving dynamics (not very comfortable either), lacking interior, poor reliability record... I'm not sure these cars have anything going for them... other than price.

    Best for Long Trips: Either Sonata or Camry. If you're being totted to the beach 300 miles away, and you have to be in the back seat of one midsize sedan, I would really LOVE to have the reclining back seats and plush ride of the Camry.

    Most Upscale Interior: Accord. The interior looks like it belongs in a car that costs about $5-10k more, and the interior size is nothing short of huge. Feel like you're driving a luxury car for a midsize price.

    Most Upscale Exterior: Tough one here: Either the Accord of the Mazda 6. Both look like they should cost more than they do.

    Most Improved: Malibu. Much larger, better driving dynamics, more competent engines, etc. Nearly everything on the Malibu now competes with the best in the class. The few short comings that this car has are just enough to keep it out of the big Japanese 3, but it's a very welcome improvement from GM.

    Best All Around: This is another very tough one. I have to say its either the Accord or the Altima. Here's what I think.

    Accord: Spacious, lively, high feature content, comfortable, and easy to live with. Unfortunately, a few shortcomings (below average gas mileage on 4-cyl, solid folding back seat, no automatic w/ manual mode, small trunk) keep it from being perfect in this class.

    Altima: Smaller in dimensions but very usable space inside. Large trunk for its size, well tuned CVT transmission w/ manual mode, Powerful 4-cyl, etc. This car has a lot to offer. Still, it's on the smaller size in this class, and the interior is a little austere (but well layed out.) This is a fun little car that has lots of practical value as well.

    :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    is this new 2010 Saab 9-5 Aero considered a midsize rig? This will come with a couple of different V6 diesel variants (a V6 turbo diesel 300 hp) and a 4-cyl. offering, but last time I looked we were not a very diesel friendly environment, even allowing their import here in the States.

    image

    2010 Saab 9-5 Aero

    Saab is teetering on bankruptcy, too, and now one of the Chinese companies has taken them on, BAIC. For another shot or two at solvency.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe mid-sized, but not mid-priced which is the focus of this discussion. The 9-5 is more in the luxury sedan class.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    is mid-priced the reason for the 2.0 label on this discussion? Or does that stand for "this is the 2nd go-around for this discussion, if you guys screw up this time and tank this thing, we're not gonna re-visit it!"

    This new Saab 9-5 Aero is an attractive design, if you look at some of the other angles it almost has an Audi look it, not surprisingly with the European connection being there.

    It's at Frankfurt, I'll be watching for any updates on it. It very well may cost in the upper midsize echelons of pricing, though, if Saab history plays on through normally.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The latter. :)

    But it's understood from the other cars in the discussion that this is about the "family sedans", not luxury sedans.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It's funny. I consider Infiniti G37 and Acura TL to be mid-size luxury cars but most "auto writers" usually refer to them as "near luxury"(don't really know what they consider luxury). I personally would consider the Saab 9-3 to be at the upper end of the mid-sized family sedans, kind of like the Passat. It's street price is around the mid to upper twenties which is what a decked out Camry V6 XLE or similar Accord or Mazda6 would be at street prices. It is almost impossible to get an Acura, BMW or Infiniti for below $33-35k street price which is definitely luxury prices compared to what we talk about here.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    I tend to think of VW as the only European manufacturer with a significant presence in the US "midsize sedan" market. And with the Passat heading toward $40k. . .

    I also think of this particular discussion as focusing on "mid-price" or "mass market" midsize sedans. Not to say that I'm uninterested in Saab, Audi, Volvo, MB C-class, BMW 3-series, etc.--just that I don't think most people cross-shop those against the Accord, Camry, Sonata, or Malibu. I'm sure someone will post here to say that they seriously considered one of those before buying their Altima 3.5SE, or something, but I think that most buyers of the Camcord class prioritize interior room, reliability, comfort, and value, where buyers of the Saab/Audi/Volvo/MB/BMW class tend to be more interested in performance, high-end features, brand image, and similar matters. Infiniti and Acura could conceivably compete with both, though.

    This gets back to one of the longtime favorite topics for this discussion--what do we really mean by "midsize"? Are we talking strictly about physical size and interior space? Or are we describing a kind of "middle of the road" car? If the latter is the case, "midsize" might not be quite the correct term.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    image

    this Midsize Sedans 2.0 was about all of them, but, it is true, the luxury end has not been served on here and it's by design. I am out of touch with what a Saab 9-5 Aero for 2010 might cost, and found it being discussed elsewhere, and found the new design quite appealing. Hence it's introduction here. But I'll cut this one off at the pass under the current rules.

    I do think that the 9-5 Aero's 2010 price would fly right over my wife and I's price range like a Gary Payton lead pass to Shawn Kemp for the dunk over Scottie Pippen though. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The rear end (in front of the C pillar) reminds me a lot of the Azera's. But that car too is a notch up from this group--in between these cars and higher-end cars like the 9-5.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    When we bought our Infiniti QX4 we were originally looking at a Nissan Pathfinder. Couldn't deal with the Nissan people on both the price of the new vehicle or what they wanted to give in trade. Thought hey, the QX4 is just a more luxurious Pathfinder, ended up getting the nicer vehicle at less price than what we could have gotten the Pathfinder for.

    So, I do think(unless I'm a total aberration) that sometimes people crossshop similar vehicles like that. I am presently looking at the TL and comparing it to a decked out Accord EX-L with Nav. Price difference is only 3-4k.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Stephen,

    Excellent analysis. I agree with almost all of your choices.

    Regarding ugly Hondas and Acuras, I agree with recent models being ugly. However, I actually don't think the Crosstour looks that bad in pictures. But we all know how you really have to see a car to tel.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I actually don't think the Crosstour looks that bad in pictures

    I think you're in a vast minority on that one.
  • james1982james1982 Member Posts: 73
    As a fan of wagons, I really want to like it but I just can't. That thing is ulgy. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's Aztec-ugly, but it's dangerously close - in my opinion, of course ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I don't think it looks that bad either. But I like that fastback styling. Not everyone's cup of tea.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "Fastback" styling done right can look good (to me) as it does in the BMW. I've never been a fan of the "crossover" look, they pretty all look bad to me. Trying to make what is basically a cross between a minivan, SUV, and wagon look "sporty" just fails, IMO.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The only part of the Cross tour I really don't like is the wheels. I am more a fan of sporty looking wheels, than heavy looking cruiser type wheels. I'm not all that caught up in how a car looks, it's more about what's under the skin. In my younger days, I once bought a car based mostly on how cool it looked, and was burned, so I don't go that route anymore. If the car has everything I want, and I enjoy driving it, looks don't really matter much. I can't see what it looks like, when I'm driving it anyway. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.