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Comments
For example, it used to be one could, with no effort at all, buy a 1-2 year old Taurus for $10-11K. When that was an option, it made it difficult for Ford to get anywhere near MSRP on a similar new Taurus. It was a great deal for the consumer though...I know I was always tempted to buy one of those Tauri, rather than a new car.
Where are you getting the value from?
I think Kia just has a bad reputation. It is the one brand that my kids (ages 20-25) uniformly indicate they would not want to buy "because they are crap". I am not saying this is true, but that is the impression they have of the brand. They do not say this about Hyundai.
I seem to recall reading that the Mazda6 was pouring into the rental fleets at the time I bought mine in early 2007. Yet, according to edmunds, my 2007 Mazda6 with 22K mi has a trade in value of about 75% of what I paid, a private party value of about 85% of what I paid, and a dealer retail value of about 95% of what I paid.
Hertz is also selling 2008s with far more miles than I have (35-40K) for about 75% of what I paid. I did buy at a lower than average price. If I'd paid what edmunds indicated the average price was at the time, then I think trade in value would be more like 65%.
This goes back to an old debate here...that your personal depreciation rate can vary by a lot, depending on the price you pay when you buy.
I recall in 2007-8, it was possible to buy a well-equipped Mazda6i Sport for just over $16k, for a $22k car. Do that kind of thing, and you won't have any problem on resale value.
"Buy low, sell high."
The unit had bluetooth for phone, ability to add back-up camera, touchscreen and the reviewer from the Detroit News was very postive. A 5" screen is small versus most installed units(except for Suzukis) but is a lot bigger than a 3.5" or 4.3" portable units that don't have intergrated bluetooth/back up camera. Quite a move by Nissan.
I'm thinking that they will keep the more expensive GPS units in the Altima, Maxima etc(lot more profit) but it may push prices down on these kinds of systems going forward. I like it.
That's why I mentioned Suzuki in my post. Their's is kind of a hybrid though. A Garmin unit that is installed in the dash but can be taken out for portability. Doesn't have the interconnected(with sound system) bluetooth for phones or the back-up camera capability to my knowledge.
But, $400 makes it a lot more reasonable that the ridiculous $2000 that people have been paying for these things.
It's kind of a pain hiding the portable gps unit all the time when you stop though. That's why I'm looking to get everything integrated in my next vehicle. Not necessary but just something I would like to have. I usually keep cars for 7-10 years. How many more new cars am I going to buy in my lifetime....might as well have what I want within reason. And you're right, $2000 is not within reason IMO.
Altima is still a car of interest to me and that's why I'm wondering if anybody knows about the new Nissan gps unit possibly being available in that. Like I said, I don't think it will be but I can hope.
"The only question that remains is whether the Altima will be available with this system, the $1,780 technology package that is required for navigation on the Altima may be too lucrative for Nissan to give up."
http://blog.pricewheels.com/2009/12/01/nissan-to-offer-400-navigation-system-on-- small-cars/
http://www.hyundaimedialive.com
I think you hit it on the head here. I've gained or lost interest in a vehicle after I rented it. I also bought a year old Taurus early in the decade for $10,500 or about $5 grand less than a new one. It wasn't a bad car either, but did start having too many nickel and dime issues after around 60K. I believe the newer Ford's have improved in longevity though.
Your memory is correct. Following is from the Hyundai release at the LA auto show
First vehicle in its class to offer a Bluetooth hands-free phone system standard
It's also interesting that the SE model will have 2 more of each hp/ft torque due to dual exhaust. Wonder what could be done with even less backpressure down the road? Also, they hint at bringing a turbocharged version of the 2.4 on line down the road, possibly late 2010. No hp estimates but I would guess about 240. They get 210 out of the 2.0 in the Genesis.
The Turbo that the Sonata is going to get is the 2.0 not a 2.4 as I mentioned previously. This engine in the Genesis coupe makes 210 ponies. Doesn't seem like that would be so exciting versus 200 in the SE version unless the torque is out of sight.
Now that I am driving around in my new (for me) 2007 Sonata with all of 162 ponies, which is paltry by current standards in this class, I can say I have no want for power. I have yet to need to floor it. It's actually too quick/fast for DW--she has a hard time keeping it under the speed limit. So 200 (or 198) ponies in a lighter car, with more torque... not a problem.
Umm...it's not 1998 anymore people! What the? I have owned two new Kia's and found them to be good and reliable vehicles. No expenses sprung on you besides regular maintenance.
You may very well get a recall or a TSB but of course these are fully funded by the vehicle manufacturer. What is different from Ford, GM, Toyota or Honda in that regard, though? Yikes. I thought we had grown up and past that kind of poo-poo attitude towards Kia Motors of South Korea but apparently not.
Really, reliable powertrains are provided, trim pieces don't fall off, things stay together as they should, etc. Public perceptions can be wrong and/or, in this case, just plain wrong as all get out.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
When people complain about Kia or Hyundai quality, they generally are speaking without personal experience--or at least without experience related to the current models from these brands. I would not hesitate to purchase a vehicle from either of these two brands on the basis of reliability or overall quality.
Dealer service, however, is another matter. Hyundai and Kia dealers in my area tend to come and go, with alarming frequency. The same is true of Subaru, Suzuki, and Mitsubishi. Without easy access to a trustworthy, stable and modern dealership, I had to write off these brands in my most recent search, and wound up buying a Honda.
If the dealership situation stabilizes locally, you can bet that I will seriously consider the Sonata and the Optima (and the Fusion, and several others) when the time comes to replace my wife's '02 Accord.
Their impressions are partly based on cars friends of theirs have had. I do have to add that the one time I had a rental Optima it was horrible and the next time I was renting I said I did not want a Kia, please! I passed on the free "upgrade" and took a Mazda3 :shades: .
It does look nicer with the fake dual exhaust, though. They dropped that from the new 4 cyl, I think.
I probably should have gotten the rear wing spoiler, even though I don't like the look, as that'd make it go even faster.
It is fake....I love the way it looks on my 2005 as well. I wish the 2009+ Mazda6 has the dual exhaust on the 4 cyl just like the 6 cyl. Looks so much better.
I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a new 2010 Mazda6 i Touring Plus. I just wish they made is in the 6-speed :-(
Comparatively my now 11 year old Daewoo Leganza still runs as smooth as day one. the 2.2L engine in the Leganza has better low end takeoff than the mazda, I do not have to push it as hard to get the same acceleration. And even after 11 years it still sounds better than the one year old Mazda. Only scheduled maintenance for 11 years. Changed the timing belt twice right on schedule every 100,000 KM. The most reliable
You've already answered my real question for you, that being do you still own your Leganza?
How much did that '09 Maz6 run you up there in Ontario?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I know it is probably cheaper in the states even after you factor in the dollar exchange rate.
It is a really nice car. I just wish it had a Korean engine in it
I wish I had driven the V6 model before I made a decision. But that is also about 3 grand more.
The Mazda is our new family car, but I am finding it too big for my everyday work commute. I am thinking of giving it to my wife in a year when her current lease expires, and then get me whatever nice small Korean car is available at the time.
My current choice is the KIA Forte Koup SX. It is one hot pocket rocket.
The Leganza is currently being driven by my sister. I still think it is the best built car in the 20th century. And it still looks great 11 year later.
Here is the Forte I would buy, but I'd get a red one. Not necessarily with a manual tranny but with a sunroof and capable stereo.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
namely
1. Koup has nicer styling both front and rear especially the sx trim
2. Koup has nicer leather sports seats with red stitching. Looks really upscale
3. The Dashboard in the Koup has softer plastics, also more upscale.
4. The controls and buttons in the koup feel nicer to the touch, also more upscale materials.
You know me, I look at the detail. Plus I am having a midlife crisis, and I need a car that looks sporty.
Both of my Kia's were fine to shift, never had a mechanical problem with either rig's clutch or tranny, either.
Yeah, the Forte Koup is one hot lookin' Mama, the car is smokin'! Should mix in well with yer midlife crisis, man.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
for the car your looking at, (search the net). I also made a post
about how I do my car buying business, I was called "hardazz"
by a fellow forum member (which is not an issue). I don't think
everyone wants or can do it this way, it takes a little "guts" but
I do have plenty of that, i.e. (US military) debating. Look back
to my comment on this thread and read some replies!
8babies1dog
nov 28 2009 (9:36 pm)
Feel free to reply, I have big enough shoulders to handle any
good or bad responses.
I hope everyone will enjoy a great holiday season and are able
to share LOVE with family and friends! Gary
Lets think about our brave service people abroad that have their
lives on the line for us and the whole free world everyday of the
year. Extra holiday greeting to you, please return to us safe and
sound, thanks very much for protecting us with your very life, "LOVE
YOU" !!!!!
jkobty, I must tell you, I've strayed to a Japanese car for my favorite rig! It's a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in Rally Red metallic paintjob and automatic CVT transmission. Titanium paddle shifters, 650-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo, leather-wrapped gearknob and steering wheel, sunroof, foglights and wraparound bodykit, this car has me firmly by the shorthairs and is rocking my world. I simply love it and will give it whatever it needs to keep it running optimally. :shades:
With me it's nothing nationalistic that can run my automotive world, it is simply the best car wins for that particular year or point in time.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Mr. Soichiro Honda was an engineer, and a good one, and it seems to me that at Honda the engineers maybe have more power than at many other car companies.
When I test drove a Camry back in 02 when I bought our first Accord I could feel and sense the difference. The Camry seemed fancier, but the Accord had much sharper handling, and a nicer to shift manual transmission.
Buying the 02 Accord got rid of one of our lemons (a first year 2000 Focus--a nightmare beyond belief), but it wasn't until 2008 when we could get rid of our 1988 Oldsmobile 98, which wasn't as much of a lemon the Focus, but was mainly just a worn out old car.
Our 02 has only 60,000 miles on it, and a lot of life is left. It doesn't, however, have many safety features found on most cars today, like abs, stability, etc. I was planning on waiting until the next generation Accord arrives, probably in 2013, to replace the 02. And that's probably what we'll do.
But the 2011 Sonata really gotten my attention. I like the styling of it a lot. And then I found out a little bit about Hyundai's new direct injection engine for it--which not only has more power, but is expected to get 35 mpg on the hwy! That's the same as a Honda Fit! The rest of the Sonata package looks impressive on paper as well, with things like bluetooth available even on the entry model Sonata (love the bluetooth on our 08 Accord).
Anyway, the new Sonata does look impressive in terms of style, features, and performance on paper:
http://hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2011_Models/Sonata/Press_Release.asp
Whether it can really be a competitor to the Accord I doubt for the following reasons--I still think Honda's quality is the top in its price area, I think the Accord's suspension is excellent, the Accord's steering is precise, and I don't think anyone makes a manual transmission as nice as that on the current Accord for a similar price.
Anyway, just wondering whether the new Sonata is going to provide real competition or not. It seems like in terms of engine technology that Hyundai may in some ways have gone beyond Honda already, which is a big shock to me. When will Accords get direct injection engines? Are there any drawbacks to this technology?
The Fusion S gets 34 mpg hwy. Given the rounding, the difference may be insignificant.
So if Honda is so great, tell me why is it out of 14 reviews, it only scores an 8.5, yet the Fusion scores a 9.2 out of 86 reviews? Don't be so sure that the Accord is as great as you make it out to be, the Fusion is a damned fine car now, and compared to a Camry, is a much finer car too. IOW don't get tunnel vision thinking only the Honda is great, Ford is right up there and ahead of Toyota in quality and reliability. Hyundai also makes a good car, at least the Veracruz I own has been a great car, the wipers could use an improvement, they are proprietary to the Veracruz only and hard to get, but when in good shape work great. Not much of a complaint is it. It is snowing today, and it is days like this that remind me that I haven't changed the damned things yet.:mad: Why is it the drivers wiper is the one that always seems to go bad? :confuse:
One area where the Honda may--or may not--be ahead of some others is for steering and handling. I think most cars in this class have gone to an electric system, which saves cost, weight, money, complexity, etc., but as far as I hear doesn't give quite as good of a feel for the road as a traditional hydraulic system, which is what I think the Accord still uses.
From what I've read, the neat thing about the new Sonata is that it's supposed to get 35mpg on all versions and with more hp than all the others in it's class except for the Passat. The Passat Turbo takes premium fuel or at least it's recommended I think. So if it works well they will be far ahead of the competition IMO from a drivetrain aspect.
Impressive economy from Ford's 6!
If true, then that would be a bigger achievement, unless they are just equipping all of them with high mpg tires, etc.
Speaking of that and the Fusion S, has anyone seen any braking tests comparing the S to another version. I'm guessing if those high mpg tires might mean less effective braking. I suppose the high mpg tires might also negatively affect handling.
I think every car exceeds it EPA highway mpg figure, when driven at moderate and steady freeway speeds. If that Sonata is rated 35, then on a freeway cruise maybe it'll get 40.
To me this vehicle would have be be drop dead gorgeous, Lexus/BMW quality inside and out and handle like it was on rails otherwise it will be killed by just about every other midsizer on the road including GM's own Malibu.
Why? The rest of the industry has V6's with 250+ hp and fuel economy ratings in the 30 mpg range. The Sonata is dropping its V6's in favor of offering better fuel economy approaching 40 mpg. This sounds so 1995-ish on GM's part. Do they think that Buick buyers are stupid? How would this launch go if gas spikes up over $3.50 next summer?
Not to be picky but can you name one V6 w/250+ hp that is rated at 30mpg or better by the EPA? I'm not talking real world cause that can be all over the map but actual rated by EPA at 30 or better.
I totally agree about the Buick. GM had better start matching up w/ the competition with Buick or it's going to be history. You gotta have something special if you're going to try to market yourself as a semi premium brand like they are trying to do with the LaCrosse especially when you've got a negative perception to live down.