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Comments
the only unusual noise I can hear is those 17" Kumho high performance tires
hitting the stripes on the pavement. The V6 makes a little groan when you
push it, but it sounds good to me "HP at work". My wife looks at me kind of
funny after it happens she says "that don't happen when I drive it", whats
wrong with it, I just say you can hear it better on the passenger side!
I have no problem with anyone comparing their car to what I have, it is kind
of an opinion thing anyway. I really don't have a problem with any of the
cars in this class, I would buy anyone at a given point, what the cleancher
deal for me was the rebates at the time were very good and we cut a real
deal and of course the warranty and the car itself struck my fancy.
Nissan Altima 3.5 SR with all the bells and whistles OR
Chevrolet Malibu LTZ
I just can't decide. I like them both and there isn't much price difference. I tend to keep my cars for ten years.
The Nissan is sportier but I am impressed with the Chevy.
Chevy dealer is 20 miles, Nissan is 45 miles away from home.
Do you want a Navigation System? The Malibu doesn't offer a Navigation Screen, instead relying on On-Star subscriptions.
How does fuel expense compare? Doesn't the Altima 3.5L require premium? The Malibu doesn't have the best EPA ratings thanks to being a heavy car, either.
How much will these vehicles cost to insure?
The Malibu felt snug to me (I'm 6'5" though), and was disappointing to me that it didn't offer a rear armrest in the top model, something my very basic 14 year old Accord offers.
How do you like the interior storage space? Can you find buttons, cubbies, and cupholders well at night? How about headlight performance at night?
I know these are all really nit-picky questions, but asking yourself these now may save you from wishing you'd picked "the other car" down the road. I personally like them both, but in the end (to me) the Altima is too pricey and the Malibu too small, so I'd pick neither.
You really should be able to get a great deal on the Malibu right now. Also, Chevy is offering (I think) their 60-day test drive, so if it turns out you don't like the Malibu after living with it for awhile, you could return it. Not so with the Altima.
'nough said
Yes, the Altima does require premium but that isn't a deal breaker for me.
Being in the midwest, I really would like to support Ford or GM. I think I would be happy with either. I tend to buy new and keep for 10 years. I'm kind of irrated with Honda that their trans. died with such low mileage. I think HOnda's are usually reliable but boring.
You sound like you like bells and whistles, power and sportiness, that sounds like a Mazda6. It is very comparable to the Altima in handling, has a big cabin, great power and pretty nice styling. It has some options not even offered on some other midsizers that may interest you as well. I'd take a look.
I have an '07 Mazda6 that has almost 40k miles and has not been back to the dealer except for a tailpipe hanger adjustment during it's first oil change.
I'm 5'11" and even with a sunroof my head doesn't come near the headliner. Maybe you just needed to lower the seat?
Just be sure to check out where the car was made. Also, at the same time, be sure to check what % of the parts used to assemble it are made in North America. This information is all on the stickers, or you can find out on-line. You may be pleasantly (or unpleasantly) surprised at some cars!
It's like grocery shopping, same thing, you buy salmon for dinner and decide if you want Chinese farm raised or Alaskan wild.
Just didn't care for the Fushion for me, Chevy "felt" more comfortable.
What percentage of employees in the automobile business actually work in an assembly plant. I would guess it is much smaller than those who fixate on the location of the final assembly must imagine.
None of this matters to me. I am not opposed to citizens of Mexico having jobs in Mexico assembling Fords, just as I am not opposed to citizens of the US having jobs assembling Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, and soon VWs in the US.
do you have a reason for needing a v6?
i do see you don't drive a lot of miles on an annual basis, so that somewhat mitigates the fuel mileage difference.
We've been through this tired argument many times:
1 - GM and Ford are not making profit so nothing is going anywhere
2 - If the profit margin were 5%, then 95% of the value is spent where the vehicle is made. This includes vehicle assembly, engine assembly, dealers, vendors, transportation and delivery companies, raw material suppliers, service providers, electricity, gas, etc., etc. Now you take that 5% profit margin away since the US nameplate maker is not making an profit, and the money that "stays here" is actually much greater for say, a US made Camry than a Mexican-made Fusion. And Toyota, being profitable, pays US income taxes!
Note: I do not like the Camry, it was just for the sake of the argument.
Accord is good too but you rule it out due to your past issues. Even the new 2011 Sonata can be worth a look.
My advice-- look at the camry or 2011 Sonata. :shades:
It is apparent that she and her husband have narrowed down the choices by eliminating other competitors. Thanks to those who have actually answered her questions without putting in a plug for their fav. :shades:
Nissan Altima:
- Definitely the sportier of the two, with a legendary V6 that's won lots of awards.
- It CAN run on regular gasoline, but yes, premium is recommended.
- CVT takes getting used to, and 10-15 year reliability is still undetermined.
- Interior is nicely laid out, but I've found the driver's seat uncomfortable after only a couple hours (I'm 6'3", 275 lbs.)
- Nissan seems to suffer from more recalls/TSBs than others as well.
Chevy Malibu:
- More "family" than "sport" sedan, with a softer suspension and smoother ride.
- V6 is smooth, and a HUGE improvement over older OHC GM engines. The 6-speed auto helps both performance and fuel mileage.
- Interior is also nicely done, and IMO slightly more user-friendly.
- On-Star is a nice tool to have, and goes far beyond just a direction-giver.
- I found the seats to be more comfortable on long trips.
Again, both cars are excellent choices, with each one having it's pros and cons. The Chevy dealer being closer would definitely weigh in my decision, but if your husband wants something "sporty", IMO the Altima would be a better fit.
Hope this helps...
top several choices we looked very close at things like, warranty,
MPG "didn't want car that recommended premium" but did want
the power of the V6 as you do. There are websites like Edmunds
where you can do comparison checks w/ specs and ratings,
safety, and many other things about each. But it will boil down
to what do you want to see in your garage for the next 10 years.
Will you look forward to the next time you drive it or is it just a
means of transportation. Pay close attention to owner comments
on dependability of year and model you choose.
Good luck on whatever you get, I'm not going to get specific but
you may look at other brands that may fit your wants and needs
better, we did and or very pleased, my wife and I take turns to
drive it!!!! Happy holidays.
In my case in 2007, it finally came down to the appearance of the car and price. I was deciding between Fusion, Milan, and Mazda6. It is not that appearance was the most important factor to me, it is just that was the main differentiator between them. In other, more important, areas it was a toss-up or I liked this about car A, but that about car B. At that time the Mazda dealers were also giving great deals on the 6.
For my wife in 2005, driving a Jetta back-to-back with a Volvo S40 made the Jetta the clear winner.
Because she'd actually have to drive the thing, not just be a passenger. :shades:
:P
Because she'd actually have to drive the thing, not just be a passenger.
LOL!!!!!
To be honest, if the Camry had the interior of a Mazda6 or Passat, and drove like an Altima or Mazda6, I would buy one!! Personally, I really like the looks of the SE model. The plain Jane Camry's with the hub caps just look hideous.
Quite a few folks still think Hyundai makes crappy cars like the Excel. That's bcos they haven't bought in maybe 10 years and don't know the current market.
So we give all the choices out there and then the buyer makes his choice based on his wishes. :P
Indeed ,Nissan`s quality has slipped badly.So a buyer who had a 90`s Nissan probably doesn't know that. And the fact remains that Altima`s interior is cheap and inferior to the Malibu .And the new redesigned 2011 Sonata is supposed to be a really good car. And as usual Camry is a very reliable quiet boat!
So nothing wrong in offering different options,I guess ! :P
Exactly my point. She did ask... but she didn't get. At least not from everyone. I understand wishy-washy people but there are also those who do their research and make a decision or get it down to a couple of good (for them) choices.
She seems like a patient person who took the time to answer everyone. Others haven't always felt that way.
I just hate to see posters driven away because they feel they have to defend themselves and justify their choices when they were just looking for some specific help.
My point is that although Ford may bring some money back from the manfuacture of the Fusion, most of the money involved in making that car goes into the Mexican supply chain, not the US. And I like the Fusion!
If one can hold out until the auto show, go and compare the cars, get all the brochures and compare them all, then out of the ones you liked the best, go test drive them all.
Good, maybe they will move back to their own country! I look at it as a positive thing.
Is this something you actually know or just something that you assume to be the case, based on location of the assembly plant?
Here is one, somewhat dated, reference that indicates direct manufacturing costs are typically about 50% of MSRP and assembly labor (which is part of that 50%) is about 6.5%. The low labor costs in Mexico likely mean it is below that average for the Fusion.
http://msl1.mit.edu/classes/esd123/vyas.pdf
Money is spent on many things other than direct manufacturing costs and most of the direct manufacturing cost is not labor. The fixation on "profits" is also misguided. For example money spent on engineering and design in Detroit, USA is not profit. Money spent on marketing and dealer support all over the US is not profit.
The point is that the more successful Ford is overall, the more money Ford can afford to invest in the U.S. plants. If Ford was ONLY producing cars in Mexico then it would be a different story, but they're not.
I expect that if Fusion sales continue to rise they'll add a U.S. plant to the mix.
Is this something you actually know or just something that you assume to be the case, based on location of the assembly plant?
It is a combination of both.
In general I rail against the somewhat hypocritical comments regarding foreign vs. US nameplates. Some people will argue that you should buy a US make because "profits come back here". Many people will say not to buy a foreign nameplate because "those profits go back to [Japan, Germany, etc.]".
I think the actual answer is quite a bit more complex. Using wild guess numbers here (but factoring in your comments), let's try to break down where the money goes when you buy a car:
Direct costs of manufacture .......50%
- plant
- parts (includes parts labor,
overhead, transport, etc.)
- assembly labor and benefits
Indirect costs............................45%
- design
- engineering
- corporate overhead
- sales
- dealer costs and dealer profit
- marketing
Profit........................................5%
- if the parent company is
actually profitable!
Feel free to adjust costs or add/subtract items. So let's take a real situation: Ford Fusion vs. Toyota Camry
Fusion:
- All plant $$ go to Mexico
- parts $ go to wherever the parts are made. I'd assume its mostly Mexican but probably some US, plus other countries (Japan, Germany, China). Let's guess it's 15% of total parts from US.
- all assembly labor $$ and benefits go to Mexico
- virtually all indirect costs go to the US
- profit (if there is any after the above) goes to US
Estimated total $$ spent in US: 55%
Camry:
- All plant $$ go to US
- parts $$ go to wherever parts are made. Since Camry is above 50% US content, more than half of this goes to US
- not sure if Camry is designed in US, but I suspect so. So that goes to US (or Japan if I am incorrect)
- engineering - probably Japan
- corporate overhead - mostly Japan
- sales, dealer costs, marketing - all US
- profit - Japan
Estimated total $$ spent in US: 65%
Whatever the actual numbers are, talking about "profit" is only a tiny bit of the $$ spent in making cars and supporting the companies and their employees. It is highly simplistic to think that "profit goes to the country of the parent". Even if my numbers are off quite a bit, we are not harming the US by buying a Camry or necessarily helping the US more by buying a Fusion. Which is why I said that the "profit goes ...." argument is a tired one.
I have to believe that a US owned and operated plant using mostly domestic content is more beneficial to the country as a whole than one in a foreign country. This, of course, doesn't mean that it better for the car company.
Of course if "more profits come here" is the goal, then to be the most profitable you outsource production to the cheapest location. So that means the best situation for the US is when the [GM/Ford] car is produced in a really cheap country? Really? (not aimed at you!) :confuse: :mad:
To stay on topic, has anybody noticed how the Passat has gone from contender to has-been with the redesign? I thought the previous model looked pretty good, but the current one is ugly IMHO.
Completely agree on the misguided notion that where the profits "go" is a significant issue. As I had mentioned a while back, to the extent anyone chooses to concern themselves with such things (I do not), they should be talking about where the revenue (aka. money) is spent, just as you have outlined.
* The grill of the Camry, with the booger hanging out of its nose.
* The side of the Sebring (or Avenger, your choice), which always make me think, "These cars were designed in this decade?"
* The rear of the Fusion, which IMO looks like something from a Daewoo design studio and not nearly as attractive as the rear of the pre-refresh car.
* The wheels of the Sonata LX, which are way too fussy for my taste and look like a vent from a Weber classic grill.
* The grill of the Camry, with the booger hanging out of its nose.
* The side of the Sebring (or Avenger, your choice), which always make me think, "These cars were designed in this decade?"
* The rear of the Fusion, which IMO looks like something from a Daewoo design studio and not nearly as attractive as the rear of the pre-refresh car.
* The wheels of the Sonata LX, which are way too fussy for my taste and look like a vent from a Weber classic grill.
It's funny, because appearances *do* matter. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but vehicles widely looked at as ugly (Aztek) usually don't do well.
For current midsizers, IMHO on a 1-10 scale, 10 being best:
Mazda 6 - 8 (pretty sharp looking given that this segment is all about conservative)
Camry - 6 (I actually think it looks decent. The previous model was hideous)
Accord - 4 (I thought the latest refresh of the previous model was better)
Malibu - 5 (Not too bad, don't like the tail lights)
Passat - 3 (Hate the current tail lights. They look better on the Jetta than the Passat IMHO. Previous Passat was an 8 IMHO. New one looks like a Toyota, especially from the rear. Who wants a German car that looks like an old Corolla?!)
Sonata - 7, based upon pictures. Will have to see.
Impreza - 7, pretty decent.
Fusion - 6, decent, not fabulous
Altima - 6, though much better than previous model
Funny about the Passat, the old Passat had taillamps that looked like the old Jetta. Must be some kind of family resemblance thing going on.
What do you think of the Kizashi?
FWIW, Impreza is a compact. But not bad looking, especially the hatchback.
I don't know what Honda is thinking. Their vehicles (including Acura) are mostly getting uglier. And the compact sportiness is fading away. They are becoming Toyota...
LOL Like said above, it's in the eye of the beholder. When I see the rear of pre-2010 Fusions, it looks like a ricer kid replaced the tail-lights. I think the 2010 is way better than the older Fusions. But it's great we disagree, or as I've stated before, we'd all be driving the same car. :shades:
* The grill of the Camry, with the booger hanging out of its nose.
* The side of the Sebring (or Avenger, your choice), which always make me think, "These cars were designed in this decade?"
* The rear of the Fusion, which IMO looks like something from a Daewoo design studio and not nearly as attractive as the rear of the pre-refresh car.
* The wheels of the Sonata LX, which are way too fussy for my taste and look like a vent from a Weber classic grill."
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1. The 2010 Camry is not bad looking. The front grill has been re-designed for 2010 and it looks much nicer than the previous 2 years. The Camry looks almost like a smaller version of the Lexus.
2. I cannot speak for the Sebring and the Fusion because I don't care for these 2 particular cars. I personally do NOT like the style of them.
3. The new 2011 Sonata is NOT ugly. It is a VERY stylish car. It looks almost exactly like a flagship Mercedes Benz. Plus the interior is very well made with high quality materials.
The front of the VW Jetta looks too plain. I don't like all of the chrome that VW placed around the front bumper. Also, the rear end of the Jetta looks like the rear end of the Corolla.
The ONLY VW that I do like is the Jetta CC. The Jetta CC looks almost like the flagship Mercedes Benz. I love the stretched out look and styling of the Jetta CC. I also love its interior. The Jetta CC is manufactured in Eben, Germany and has excellent quality fit and finish.
On the other hand, I do not think that the regular Jetta is built in Germany. It's either built in the USA, Brazil or in Mexico where the quality is inferior to the 100% made in Germany quality that the Jetta CC has.
Revenue, not profit. Revenue pays salaries of engineers and designers located in multiple locations. Buying an vehicle made by a "domestic" OEM supports engineering and design employees.
It also pays suppliers and vendors with strong presence in the US.