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If I miss the Chicago show, I'll have to wait for the smaller Twin Cities show in March.
'11 Sonata
'10 Kizashi
'11 Regal
'10 CC
'10 Legacy
'11 Cruze
'11 Sorento
`11 Mustang
'11 Optima if displayed
'11 Tucson
There are others but I actually take a list with me now because in the past I would come home and realize that I completely missed a vehicle that I really wanted to see because I was going to double back to it or something.
Side note. I had my 07 Mazda6 I4 in for an oil change last week and next door is a Suzuki dealer, actually it's owned by the same dealer. I sat in a Kizashi in the showroom. Everything was as expected from what I've read as to interior quality being pretty good but a couple of things I didn't like. 1. The Suzuki "S" on the front grill is enormous(some might say gaudy). 2. The center armrest sits too far back(for me) to rest on it and reach the wheel which I like to do on longer drives. Yes, I had the wheel telescoped back as far as it would go for those wondering. 3. I like big side outside mirrors but these are even bigger than I would prefer but they do swivel which is a good thing. Overall, pretty good looking vehicle and sized nicely. Love the little raised edge on the rear trunk lid and stance of the car looks good. Hope they have an uplevel version at the auto show with leather/nav setup so can see what that's like. I'm still torn on CVTs though.
Re the mirrors on the Kizashi... the review I read in Automobile Magazine noted those also, but said something like, better get used to mirrors like that. Apparently there are some new regs re mirrors that will force them to be larger from now on.
One advantage of the Twin Cities' auto show is, it's so small it's pretty hard to miss anything, even w/o a list. I can circumnavigate the whole showfloor in about 2 hours, depending on how many vehicles I linger at.
Those Kizashi mirrors. The actual glass mirror part was not really too big but it seemed like the housing was huge....like they could have made it a little smaller fit to the mirror. Take a look, let us know what you think.
I usually take the train downtown from my burb and spend about 6-7 hours at the show which includes lunch(love paying $20 for a burger, fries, Coke don't ya know).
Even though I spend that much time I can still miss something. The show is so huge with all the extraneous stuff that I find myself wondering through......almost broke down for a Vegimatic but regained my senses.
The Regal looked nice in "GS" trim in Detroit. I think its getting really hard to stand out in the midsize sedan category; you basically need something reliable with a lot of amenities to come to the party, and then if you have a high horsepower version or high MPG version, that differentiates you a little. The Regal looks credible but not the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The Cruze (which is already on sale elsewhere) didn't seem too exciting in terms of styling or interior. It was more like a "this is the new Cobalt which was the new Cavalier" kind of thing. I don't think the current Focus is much to write home about either, but the Corolla is also boredom on wheels, so I don't know what to expect from the segment. I think the Civic walks away there (especially the SI). I think the next generation Focus (which was on display in the D) looks fantastic (although it reminds me a lot of the pre-grinning Mazda3 alot).
I don't know, I didn't see anything that made me want to run out and mortgage the kids to get, which might just be a sign of the times. Oh well, its cheaper not to make changes anyway I suppose.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Anyway, looks like these new small cars will be a major test of Ford's "global car" strategy. I wonder if the next-gen Fusion will be a "global car" also... and cost, what, $35k???
I heard they were talking about a technology pkg and a driver's pkg, so if you want things like navigation, lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, and the stuff you usually find on premium vehicles and typically isn't even offered in this segment, than yeah, that is a pretty pricey Focus (similar to the Prius with and without those features).
For the model and features comparable with other vehicles in the segment, pricing will be inline.
The Fiesta starts about where the Fit does and tops out about where the Fit does, well below the Mini, and considerably above the Yaris and Accent. Are you buying the car because its the cheapest new one available, or because you want a small fuel efficient vehicle that doesn't make you feel like you're in a penalty box?
We will see I guess.
That's why for example you see Fusion SEs advertised for $17k. You never see comparably-equipped Accords for that kind of price.
My '07 Accord EX was cheaper then I could get a Fusion SEL at the time, about 19k.
People are also used to seeing Foci priced starting at $11k (sale prices). It will be quite a shock to see a stripped Festiva for $14k and Focus for much more.
I think the only companies that still offer "stripped" vehicles are Toyota and Hyundai. Can you get crank windows on a Civic? Or an Accord?
They will be better cars than the current Focus, but I think it will take some time for buyers to wake up to that fact.
Yup, I guess we will see how that rolls. When the Flex came out, it was too expensive for the market at the time and it seems like there were painful adjustments.
Meanwhile, Ford will need to raise prices on the Fusion or be in the tough position of trying to sell their new compact for more than their mid-sized car.
1. I bet the next gen Fusion (the European/American one) will be a little pricier than current.
2. People are getting away from size = $$, a Fit and a Civic are about the same price, a Focus and a Fusion aren't too far apart now (at least at the lower end of the Fusions)
I don't think your concerns are unfounded, but I think the "Premium" version will be expensive while the "pedestrian" version will be less-so. It just depends on if you want to see Avatar in 3D or not.
WRT the future, still not quite midsize?, Focus pricing:
The new Focus, for instance, will be offered with rain-sensing wipers, a parallel-parking system, a blind-spot warning system, a backup camera, ambient lighting, push-button ignition, a stitched dashboard, and a sophisticated navigation system. Jim Hughes says that pricing will be held close to the current car’s $17,570 base price when it goes on sale. However, we can see a Focus easily creeping into the mid-to-high-$20K bracket by the time many of the desirable options are added.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q1/2012_ford_focus-auto_shows
As for rain-sensing wipers yada yada... I can sense rain and parallel park my own car pretty darn well. Push-button ignition is a useless gimmick, IMO. Stitched dashboard? I suppose for all the times I run my hands over my dashboard, that would be nice. Too bad they can't design a car these days with good sightlines so we don't need backup cameras and blind-spot warning systems. A good nav system starts around $100.
I guess the base model will be fine for me. Maybe there'll be lots of folks who will shell out the big bucks for the loaded-up Foci with ambient lighting etc. I won't be one of them. Just make the car reasonably priced, reliable, safe, fun to drive, roomy, comfortable seats, good balance of ride and handling, excellent fuel economy... you know, all those "car" things that we sometimes forget about in search of the perfectly stitched dashboard... and I'll take a good look at it.
You can get crank windows on a Civic, also on a Focus, right? The only reason you can get crank windows on a Hyundai in the US is because they choose to sell a low-end subcompact model here, which Ford does not. Yet.
From the pricing I see at Edmunds.com, there's about a $3000-4000 price difference between the Focus and Fusion, at least at the lower end i.e. S and SE levels. About a $2000 price difference between comparably-equipped Fit and Civic.
Swoopy styling is fun, but I hope car designers don't forget we have to DRIVE the darn things.
Yes, same here. The base models of most midsize cars are "loaded" by my standards (A/C, power windows/locks/mirrors, keyless entry, some kind of radio with a few speakers, tilt/telescoping wheel, adjustable seat height). Though I did go for the $500 higher "sport value" Mazda6 a few years ago, mostly to get some appearance things that I liked, but then I found that really liked having the steering wheel audio controls and I don't think I'll want to give up that luxury in the future.
Like all the rest Ford will have to decontent the Focus to bring the price into the $20K or lower range. $17750 for a base model sounds a lot more reasonable. This is prolly where the volume will be. It depends a lot on Ford's marketing expertise now. Can they drive buyers to want a $22000 - $25000 compact car?
Nobody else here has been able to do that.
Well put!
I know the above is referring to the LaCrosse you just sat in but I failed to mention previously that I noticed something similar in the Kizashi I sat in recently. The windowsill, for lack of better term, on the door was very high. I like to rest my elbow there sometimes and when I tried to do it my arm was bent up at an uncomfortable angle. Maybe raising the seat all the way up may help but then I would have other issues. I don't like the way they enclosing people now. I know it's probabably to protect occupants but if they make it so hard to see out they are defeating the purpose to some extent.
I think it's possible to do a thorough job of evaluating a car both from driving, safety and fancy doodads aspect at the same time. The problem comes when someone becomes so enamored with the bells and whistles they forget about the important things. Of course, those people should not chew gum and walk at the same time either.
I myself don't ever plan to take my car swimming, so moot point for me.
Could is the operative word above. As far as opening the window-- I heard a news report a few days ago about a security guard on his way to work that drove off the road into a river. He had his gun in the car and shot out his window. That proves that we should all carry guns in our car if we have power windows. Of course it's possible the reason that he drove off the road was because he was loading it so on second thought maybe we shouldn't.
Mythbusters did an episode a few years ago that demonstrated that it was not likely you could roll down manual windows until the pressure was equalized. Most crank arms and mechanisms aren't strong enough and just can't stand up to the stress from the external water pressure without breaking gears/cables.
maybe you could just open the door? (about 7 minutes long)
So that is what I am thinking about with Ford's new "global cars". Will it be another Mondeo/Contour/Mystique escapade, or will it turn out better for Ford this time?
I guess the base model will be fine for me. Maybe there'll be lots of folks who will shell out the big bucks for the loaded-up Foci with ambient lighting etc. I won't be one of them.
So you resent the options being available so you can load up the car to be premium? It seems like more people want more features, not stripped down penalty boxes (re:Aveo, Accent).
Prices will start where everything else does, and then if you want nav and a branded audio system, heated leather seats, a sunroof, etc you might actually have to pony up for it. My guess is more will be like that then the 14" steel wheel hubcap municipal fleet model.
Contour and Mystique, if we are going for accuracy.
Actually, the Ford Cortina was first in the 60s I believe, Skipping to the 70s we have the last Fiesta, then the 80s Escort, Merkur XR4Ti and Scorpio, Then we have the Contour/Mystique (and related models like the Mercury Cougar). I think this has been going on a long time (even the "kent" engine in the Pinto has Euro roots. "The market" always said "its too different then the Euro version" so we will see how they feel after this.
Was the '80s Escort the same car in the US as in Europe?
Using the same exact car for US and European markets hasn't been too successful from any automaker. VW does it with some of its cars ala Golf/Jetta, but is not a big seller in the US in recent years. The Camry is aimed at the US market. There's a specific Accord for the US market. The Sonata was designed in the US but will be sold around the world, but how about the Altima? The Mazda6 is different for the US than Europe. Ford, we know, has the Mondeo for Europe and the Fulan for the US. Does Chevy even sell the Malibu in Europe?
It seems hard to design one car that has mass appeal across the world.
Up until 2 years ago, Americans looked at most small cars as cheap transportation. But that's no longer the case. Offering premium features on small fuel efficient, fun to drive vehicles (while still offering less expensive models) should prove successful.
Not that I would want manual windows, but now-a-days you can just get an I-pass and eliminate all that, plus cut your toll charges in half.
Like the carload of people who died when accelerator was stuck, because non of them apparently thought of shifting to neutral, have people died because they did not think of opening the door to get out of a car in water? (I believe that another recommended option is to lean back and kick out the windshield)
Also in many cars, might folding the rear seats down and crawling out through the trunk work, before the car is submerged and without waiting for pressure to equalize?
I beg to differ.
Mazda's whole lineup is almost the same all around the world, with the 2nd gen Mazda6 the acceptions. The Mazda3, Mazda5, CX-7, MX-5 and soon to be Mazda2 are all mulit-award winning vehicles distributed world wide. The CX-9 is offered in a few global markets as well.
I think we've beat the power windows thing to death....back to topic.
I disagree. I still think most Americans look at small cars as "economy" cars, not feature-filled luxo-cars. They expect small cars to be lower priced than larger cars. "Hey, it's smaller than a Fusion, it should cost less!" Exceptions are small sporty cars that can command a premium due to their performance, and small cars with premium brands. But the typical buyer of a Focus/Cobalt/Aveo/Corolla/Civic/Elantra/Accent/Forte/Versa/Sentra etc. is looking first and foremost for economical transportation, IMO.
FWIW, I believe that E-ZPass, which is pretty much the standard electronic toll payment system in the Northeast & Mid-Atlantic states, can be used on at least some Illinois toll roads.
This also proves (once again) that Americans are still in the stone age when thinking about cars. This goes along with a few other myths:
- Toyota's are bulletproof and are more reliable than the sun
- Automobiles from the D3 are far inferior to imports
- Diesel cars are loud and they stink
We need permanent $4+/gallon gas prices and/or gas taxes to get Americans to get out of their old-school thinking and step into the 21st century. Time to get them out of their dinosaur SUV's, and convince them that buying a well-optioned small car is in fact a WISE decision, and not just buying for "economy".