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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Effective today through the end of February, GM is offering three deals to any Toyota customer who wants to switch to a Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac or GMC product. The skinny:

    1. Lease Customers: Waiver of three payments up to $1,000
    2. Financing Customers: Zero percent financing for 60 months
    3. Cash Buyers: $1,000 purchase bonus


    Boy, didn't take GM long to react to the blood in the water.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Kudos to GM for being agile on the incentives to steal some customers.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    it hard to believe a company like Toyota didn't learn the mistakes that GM made in regard to lying and covering stuff up and not admitting to their being a problem (GM before restructuring more specifically)

    I expect sales to increase with Toyota's major competitors now, i.e. Honda, Nissan, GM, Hyundai, and Ford because this thing is all over the news and its def going to affect people's buying decision
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    how are those offers different from GM's others?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    it hard to believe a company like Toyota didn't learn the mistakes that GM made in regard to lying and covering stuff up and not admitting to their being a problem (GM before restructuring more specifically)

    Unfortunately, not really. The banks and government just repeated a lot of the same mess that created the S&L debacle under George W's old man back in the 80's. Everyone thinks this time is different because of some new thing, but its not. The current mess wasn't supposed to happen because of the quant heads models - right! Ford seems to have misplayed the cruise control fire issues just like the Explorer problem before it. Honda looks to be doing some similar things with some of their vehicle issues.

    I expect sales to increase with Toyota's major competitors now, i.e. Honda, Nissan, GM, Hyundai, and Ford because this thing is all over the news and its def going to affect people's buying decision

    Short term, yes. Longer term, maybe not. Once the fix is made Toyota will be one of only a few vehicles that will have a brake override system in case of electronic glitches. If the newer models continue having fewer repair issues as the car ages, they will go back to being popular. If I was Honda, I wouldn't be all that delighted. This Toyota mess is going to get the press and media digging into import car stuff. There seem to be a lot of blogs and complaints about Honda failures like A/C systems, trannies, engines with VCM compalints or unexplained oil consumption, etc. Honda could well end up with some unflattering coverage as the Toyota issues die down. Bottom line IMO, if newer D3 models actually hold up better than previous models then eventually I see pricing getting closer and ToyHon sales people having to be more responsive to customers in the near future. Not such a bad thing really!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Don't know. I just copied it from the release. Maybe it's an additional $1000 on top of other rebates if you own a Toyota and possibly 0% across the lines vs. certain models. I'm not familiar with GMs offers prior to this announcement as I'm not really interested in a GM vehicle at this time.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I got a very long, detailed email from a local Toyota dealer today, explaining the recalls and sales shutdown, and providing advice on what to do if my Toyota starts having problems with unintended acceleration. A pretty useful email overall, and nice to see that Toyota dealers are reaching out to their customers.

    Except.. I don't own a Toyota and haven't since 1984. :confuse: :surprise:
  • siramssirams Member Posts: 5
    Its ok for GM to benefit but not me as a consumer. Sounds like contradiction,
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    but did you buy that Toyota you had in 1984 at the same dealer who sent you the UI letter?

    As far as leaving the Lancer out of your list, backy, all I wanted to know was what was your reasoning on that, if there was any reason for it.I kind of suspected there wasn't an anti-Mitsu agenda going on there. Was just curious how you bunched the Lancer in with the rest of 'em and how you might differentiate it from the others, etc. I agree, it's off-topic 'cause the Lancer is a compact and not a midsize sedan, so let's definitely move on.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    So I have been lamenting that there is no viable manual transmission sport model midsize sedan right now. Either you go premium or entry level lux, or go compact. I think what annoyed me is I wanted heated leather seats and you can't get that from Ford, Mazda, Honda, or Toyota with a manual. This isn't a V6 or big engine even, this is just heated leather seats. So that leaves Subaru with the Legacy, and I really can't get myself to like the new one as much as the previous one, and VW Jetta which condemns me to a life of changing power window motors.
    While I realize I am a tiny portion of the market, once I am completely abandoned, my only criteria is price.
    Thankfully, as cars continue to get more and more dull, and doodads replace things like driving feel as we continue the dumbing down of transportation, there are still enough used vehicles that satisfy my wants...or they are inexpensive enough to allow for tailoring them to fit my wants. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No. I think I bought a 1980 Corolla there, in late '79. Weird.

    So now that the Sephia is two names removed from the current Kia compact, you ever thought of changing your handle?

    What do you think of the 2011 Optima? Quite a departure from the current model, eh? Based on the styling of other new Kia models, I might like the looks of the Optima better than the 2011 Sonata. But kinda hard to tell with all the stealth cladding on the Optima spy pics.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    and you can't get that from Ford, Mazda, Honda, or Toyota with a manual.

    I feel your pain, although technically you can still get a V6 Accord Coupe EX-L with a manual. It is so sad that the I4 manual in the higher trims is gone. :cry:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    judging from what I've seen I think it's gonna be a great looking new midsize sedan from Kia. And I like it better than the new 2011 Sonata. It is hard to tell from all the packaging, unfortunately. Here's an early look at the 2011 Kia Optima. With cladding.

    image

    image
    Kia Cadenza-another future Kia sedan-just a small notch larger than Optima

    And I was gonna switch my handle to iluvmylancergts but was persuaded not to by a few of the hosts. For reasons that are muddy in me mind right now. I still luv my '99 Kia Sephia, even though Kia is on the Forte name now. And the Forte sedan is the one I would buy if I jumped back to Kia Motors, though the new 2011 Kia Sportage design looks very, very nice. Kia and Hyundai never fail to amaze me. I noticed the talent, or the emerging capability coming from them, from the job they did building my '99 Sephia.

    The '01 Sportage 4X4 was a great little truck, too, and saved my butt in the snow and ice at least 3 times in the 6 years we owned it. The 4WD was nice to have. I'd still be driving South Korean today if not for this baby EVO that I saw on the internet in early 2007. The rest is history, as they say. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    I'm on that tiny list of shoppers that would love a manual in a midsize car. It'd be nice to see a V6 model with a true 6-speed manual and the option to get it loaded. My '04 Mazda6 has the V6 and 5-speed, and is optioned out, and I love it.

    It'll be the last of the breed though, since I'll be replacing it this summer. :cry:

    Looks like I'll be looking for a weekend sports car sooner rather than later...
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You can easily get aftermarket heated leather seats. Both are easy to install and it would give you more options on the car itself.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    ...VW Jetta which condemns me to a life of changing power window motors

    I've not heard of that being a problem on the current version. We have had no problems with windows on ours, which was built in the first few months of the new design in 2005. (Note that I did not say "no problems", there have been a few, just not with windows.)

    How do you feel about the DSG type transmissions? Ford will eventually, I assume, have that on the Fusion.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    I used to drive stick, but found it to be a pain in traffic, and the only advantage of having a stick, MPG, is now moot as the automatics get better ratings now. I used to drive 18 Wheelers, so manuals to me now are a thing of the past. Try driving on the Kennedy in an 18 in heavy traffic every day and you will not want to drive one ever again! :)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Its ok for GM to benefit but not me as a consumer. Sounds like contradiction,

    You can benefit, just buy a GM with the incentives. :P
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    the only advantage of having a stick, MPG, is now moot

    What about people that simply enjoy shifting? I wouldn't drive a manual now as a daily commuter but you can bet my weekend fun car will have a stick.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    For fun yes, but when you put 500 miles or more a week on dealing with idiot drivers, the last thing I want to do is drive anywhere! :P In a Cobra, nothing better than a stick behind that 5.0. Get it in second, and drift down the road, wheels smokin, yep now thats fun.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    You can easily get aftermarket heated leather seats. Both are easy to install and it would give you more options on the car itself.

    That is a thought. My Contour had an aftermarket sunroof, but it was a Websco which made the factory sunroof. The aftermarket one was actually slightly better, as it would automatically close if I turned the car off, and had one touch close with a pinch sensor. Never had an issue with it.

    I would consider the aftermarket heated seats but not if they were more expensive than the factory option. Or if they look cheesy. When I added driving lamps to cars in the past, I could at least track down the factory switch so it looked right from the inside.

    I think the Accord is to worthless right now as a trade in to get me into anything else anyway. At least it gets good MPG.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    What about people that simply enjoy shifting?

    Hear hear. or here here. or whatever.

    I think we learned from the recent Toyota issue that if there is a computer between you and something mechanical, you aren't controlling it. DSG, SMG, "sport shift", wanna-be, whatever. If there is no clutch pedal, you aren't controlling it. Most people don't care, until now.

    Eh I didn't mean to go into too much of a rant, that should be on the "future of manual transmission" topic anyway.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Not sure why you think having a clutch would mean that there is not still a computer involved and in partial control of your car and I really don't get the connection to the Toyota issue as the problems (sticky pedal and floor mats) are related to mechanical issues, according to the company :confuse: .
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "I think the Accord is to worthless right now as a trade in..."

    Looks like Ford will give you $1000 for it, if it is '95 or newer ;)
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    As I've stated elsewhere I had a late 80s Mercury Topaz that suffered from this kind of problem. The engine would without warning start to rev to red line. I would run down the highway holding the brake to maintain 55MPH. I could shift into Neutral & pull to the side and turning the engine off/on would reset it.

    This was a manual-equipped car.

    Ford/Mercury recalled AT-equipped vehicles but not stick shifts. IIRC it was the ECU so yes, a computer glitch. I dumped the car as it was the least reliable car I'd ever owned anyway. The car knew it, too, as when I dropped it off to trade it in the drivers window got stuck down & must have came off it's track. :sick:
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Do you suppose Ford (and GM and Hyundai for that matter) will take in trade right now one of the recalled Toyotas e.g. Camry, under the special conquest programs they have? I wonder about that. They couldn't in good conscience resell those cars, even on the auction market, until they are fixed.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That is a very, very good question. They may take them in but they would probaly have to hold them until a fix. They would probably be way down the list for that fix I would imagine. I see Ford and Hyundai have also joined the fray. They must have some kind of plan for those trades.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Have used car sales departments at Toyota dealers stopped selling the models with the problems? They should know the law, so if they are selling them I would assume it is legal to do so.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What's legal and what's ethical can be two different things.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Are you saying that Toyota used cars depts. are selling them or are you really asking the question? I have no idea if they are or not but there have been many safety related recalls in the past from all makes and I never heard of a hold on trades or sales of used cars etc. I realize this one is somewhat different but the same laws probably apply.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Not sure why you think having a clutch would mean that there is not still a computer involved and in partial control of your car

    I can press a pedal and the drivetrain is disconnected from the wheels. I can also select what gear I want to be in, and the car can't change that.

    Neither of those cases are true for an automatic or psuedo-stick. If you want to downshift in a DSG, the car will check to make sure it's okay with you doing that. If your throttle is stuck wide open, its just going to keep going through the gears or not let you downshift. Full throttle in 1st and bumping the rev limiter is a lot easier to handle that full throttle in 4th or 5th.

    I really don't get the connection to the Toyota issue as the problems (sticky pedal and floor mats) are related to mechanical issues, according to the company

    If you believe that, I have an acquaintance with an aging bridge in a major metropolitan area I have been looking to unload at a fair price...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Are you saying that Toyota used cars depts. are selling them or are you really asking the question?

    Asking.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Putting an automatic in neutral also disconnects the drive train from the wheels.

    I don't know enough to have any "beliefs", what I posted is what is a known fact...Toyota has indicated the problems are mechanical. I will say that I'm not jumping to the conclusion that they are either lying or stupid and there is no other explanation that I can think of that would lead to you knowing more than they do about these problems.

    I'd not count on this problem leading to a big increase in demand for clutches on new cars in the US. ;)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Putting an automatic in neutral also disconnects the drive train from the wheels.

    Allowing there is a mechanical connection between the shifter and the transmission...something going away quickly...and just about any car that has paddle shifters.

    I don't know enough to have any "beliefs", what I posted is what is a known fact...Toyota has indicated the problems are mechanical.

    True, I am just skeptical of it being a purely "mechanical" problem.

    I will say that I'm not jumping to the conclusion that they are either lying or stupid and there is no other explanation that I can think of that would lead to you knowing more than they do about these problems.

    Fair enough. It seems weird though that a supplier that has made a bagazilion of these mechanical assemblies for a number of OEMs and never noticed an issue in the field or all their DV testing. Given the way the handled this so far, I don't think skepticism is out of line.

    I'd not count on this problem leading to a big increase in demand for clutches on new cars in the US.

    I would concur with that statement as well. Just pointing out the differences. I also don't see people running back to mechanical fuel injection or carburetors.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    AFAIK any used car lot that has Toyota's which are under recall are not supposed to be selling them. However that was yesterday.

    The regulations and the law as I understand it is that sales have to stop as long as there is no approved course of action ( by NHTSA ) to remedy the recall issue. As of today it appears that the NHTSA did approve the remedy and it's in process of being shipped. It would appear that sales of all involved vehicles can resume legally.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    i would think the 'fix' is supposed to be applied before the vehicles can be sold again.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I read in the paper(not saying it's correct) the supplier can make 1 million a year and Toyota has recalled over 4 million worldwide not counting future production. Unless they can get more manufacturing capacity for pedal assemblies or whatever, it is going to take them a long time to get to all those vehicles.

    My Tundra was recalled in November for spare tire assembly corrosion problems and I haven't even got a letter yet. Haven't moved, owned since new so I don't know what the holdup is. Could it be they've got a lot on their plate???
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Is there also movement away from a mechanical connection between the clutch pedal and the clutch?

    An example of a proxy control is the Valeo Clutch-by-Wire. The unit replaces the mechanical link between clutch and pedal with an electrical clutch actuator, an electric clutch pedal and an electronic control unit (ECU). A pedal sensor measures the position of the clutch pedal and transmits this information to the ECU which also receives information about car behavior. The ECU in turn controls the clutch actuator and depending upon the driver’s wishes, the system can not only correct driver mis-operations but offer complete clutch automation.

    http://www.cardesignonline.com/safety/pedal-box-design.php
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Servo-assisted clutches are common enough already. Mercedes built the first one in the 60s and several makers over the years have offered them. The current Hondas mostly use a similar arrangement as it allows for precise shifting without needing a cable or mechanical linkages(so there's a fraction of the wear on the fork and clutch)
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    I would prefer a hydraulic-actuated clutch, as that's been the old stand-by for many European cars for a long time. It provides a much smoother clutch action than a cable-actuated system.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    the system can not only correct driver mis-operations

    That is just creepy. I haven't seen this with a "true manual" yet, but it sounds creepy to me.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I would prefer a hydraulic-actuated clutch, as that's been the old stand-by for many European cars for a long time. It provides a much smoother clutch action than a cable-actuated system.

    It depends on the clutch. If you have a higher clamping force spring in the clutch, it takes more effort to engage that clutch, and if your friction material is more aggressive, it can feel grabby at the pedal. This is why the low powered vehicles will often have a cable actuated clutch and the high powered ones get the hydraulics. As with steering, you can hide things (good or bad) when you add the hydraulics.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The fix? For what exactly?

    Why are the sudden accelerations still occurring even when the pedals are not involved? This sudden acceleration issue has been around for over 5 years now and has yet to be fixed.

    This so called "pedal" fix is not the heart of the problem.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Correct. The real issue is "drive by wire" or in this case, Electronic Throttle Control.

    It's not fixable without a redesign of the entire throttle and braking system back to the older semi-mechanical and mechanical technology. Good luck reselling any Toyota or Lexus with it in it when the ugly truth comes out.(essentially the last 4-5 years)

    And then anything by any of the other manufacturers as the public avoids the technology like the plague.

    Now, one good thing can be had out of this, though. You will be able to pick up a Toyota for next to nothing used that's affected by this. The solution will be to change your throttle and braking sensor(or the module) every 1-2 years as a consumable item. Note - manuals aren't affected as you can just put it in neutral the same as if you accidentally hit the resume on the cruise control. Oops - it's going faster. Half a second later it's under control.

    Another bonus for manual transmissions. :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    ta spend on the internet I've been researching cars I would like to buy next. Guess which one I'm falling for these last few days boys?

    The new Suzuki Kizashi. I was reading one of Suzuki's ads on the Kizashi yesterday at Safeway and Suzuki advertises they will be selling the "Kizashi nicely equipped for $21,200."

    Did I read that right?

    Industry whisper rumor has it that the Kizashi will be MSRP'ed at 17k to 18k for base models, which are actually fairly well equipped, and loaded models will run near 26k with every option.

    If true, that will probably mean actual pricing of 14.5k to 21k.

    Above is your comment mikemartin and it turns out that what you said is going to actually be pretty accurate in the real world. Man, I don't know about you but I just grew about $5,000 more interested in this car than I was before reading that ad.


    These posts are just cut and pastes from the 'Suzuki Kizashi' thread here on Edmunds. So I'll paste my next post, in which I go on and detail out per options what the price would be for the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi I would plunk hard-earned money down seriously. Here you all are.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    to iluvmysephia1's tastes, regarding possible purchase of a new 2010 Suzuki Kizashi . Here y'all go.

    I must be really interested in the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi because I just clicked on that ad and optioned-one out and priced-one out. For a 2010 Suzuki Kizashi GTS in Vivid Red, FWD, 6-speed manual transmission, bluetooth, sunroof and 425-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo, it comes to $23,334. That's MSRP, with no dickering included. I'd want to dicker a tad for this car. In comparo, my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS rung up to about $22,200 after everything was added in, including putting the anti-theft alarm in and adding the prepaid maintenance package. Anyone else on to what I'm thinking here already about how this 2010 Suzuki Kizashi is pricing out? The '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is a sporty compact car, fitted out real close to how I would like a 2010 Suzuki Kizashi fitted for my wife and I. But the difference here and I find it remarkable, is that one can find a great deal on a midsize Kizashi from Suzuki right now. Suzuki is working hard to earn your business. And it appears to have earned it in several reviewers minds here on Edmunds. Reviews are coming in and they're nothing short of fantabulous. I'm starting ta think of reasons ta give my wife as to why we need a 2010 Suzuki Kizashi. Other than just wanting a new car. Sounds like this new Kizashi will send you all in to and out of the twisties with a thrill abandon.

    425-watt, 10-speaker Rockford-Fosgate premium AM / FM / CD /XM-capable audio system with MP3 playback. My '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS has a 650-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo. On this '10 Suzuki Kisashi GTS several of the options are very similar to my '08 Lancer GTS' included options. The one-touch power sunroof is on both cars, the RF stereo, foglights, etc. Wow, I like this Kizashi a lot. I'd get a Vivid Red one or a Metallic Silver one and be really happy with either one of those colors.

    Reviews are good...Edmunds gave it a very good review. The interior gets very good grades. The ride is tight and taut, but I am used to that with my sport-tuned 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. I am not only used to a sport-tuned suspension but I think that I want that kind of build from now on. It pays off in the twisties and on the freeway, though over bumpy roads it can be kind of irritating. The 2.4L 180hp 4-cylinder apparently is providing these reviewers with ample power for city and highway driving. And I have now read one reviewer with the 6-speed manual tranny praise the shifter on their Kizashi, saying that it shifts easier than their Audi A4's shifter. Wow. I see no reason for a car of this size, more importantly the Kizashi's weight, that the 2.4L 180hp 4 wouldn't be enough power. This car would look great in Vivid Red or the silver that is shown on the Kizashi in my post above. More on this car later.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Vivid Red.

    image
    Love those alloys!

    This is no time ta go tradin' a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in with only 48, 899 miles in, is it?

    Well, let's think about it for a while. What would the Phoenix Suzuki dealer low-ball or high-ball me on trade for my compact 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS? Would my wife want to just pop a hard one on my cheek if she saw these posts?

    Probably.

    We're about halfway paid off on the '08 Lancer GTS. It's probably worth just about what we owe on it, probably worth a titch less. The Phoenix Suzuki dealer would have to deal with that or I'll just get up and walk. I've learned to do that very quickly and easily. Maybe tomorrow or Wednesday I'll drive the extra 120 miles up to Phoenix just to talk to them. And test drive. The wife will not be in my camp at all.

    Unless, of course, I promise to buy her a 2011 Tata Nano in automatic transmission. She has expressed interest in getting a Nano when they come(if they come)to America. Just ta go pick up groceries. I kid you not. She likes the Tata Nano. She doesn't currently possess a driver's license. But that could change.

    If you can tell I've fallen for another automobile. It's called the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi GTS in Vivid Red, foglights, Rockford Fosgate 425-watt stereo with 10-speakers(I think Suzuki is in cahoots with Mitsubishi, these options in the two cars' GTS packages are so close to each other it's scary!!)cloth seats, 10-way adjustable driver's seat, one-touch power sunroof, 180 hp FWD 2.4L 4-cyl. engine with a 6-speed manual transmission. Coming in at about $23,200 MSRP.

    If I get just the right wild hair tomorrow while we're shopping in Tucson or Wed. while we are both enjoying another day off I'll go up to Avondale and see if I can score myself(and my wife :P )a test drive...at least. I am such a car romantic. :shades:

    Over and out. I'll let ya know how serious Suzuki is about selling this new Kizashi. Something tells me they're gonna be very serious. Oh, if I can't find a red one I'll look for the Platinum Silver and see how much they want ta deal.

    Knowing Suzuki's current state I think I'll do just fine. It's getting this puck past my wife that'll take some serious Bobby Orr action. ;)

    I kid you not. I have read some reviews on this car that are really fantabulous and I love it's bodystyle. I also trust Suzuki's engineering capabilities. So much so that I trust the people's reviews of this car as being genuine. Talk to ya all later.

    My wife can tend to have a very sobering affect on my car shopping efforts...though.

    Like I say, when the tequila's all worn off, my wife is right there with me in the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, we're in Tucson shopping mode and I start praising the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi GTS in Vivid Red, I'll start learning how much traction this idea of mine is gonna have and hold. :surprise:

    I fell for this 2010 Suzuki Kizashi this weekend and so it has just begun. I can be patient. I can wait. But I do have 3 more days off from work and we are in a really good position to buy this car, if I can twist a favorable deal. And if the Avondale Suzuki dealer is possessing an eager selling mind. The spot Suzuki's in right now should bode well for a possible deal. What's 120 extra miles north in Arizona on I-10 in the midst of easy winter travelling, anyway boys.

    Wish me good fortune. She's gonna hit the frickin' roof when I ease this one in. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    You seem quite in love with a car you've just read about and seen pictures of and that is so similar to what you have. Better not look at any pictures of the wive's sisters. ;)

    Seriously, the Kizashi is quite nice. Perfect no, but what car is? I haven't found one that hasn't got something you wouldn't want to change. I've sat in one but no test drive. Let us know what you think.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Nice car, but what's the rush? Why not give Suzuki a year (or more) to work out all the kinks? (That's assuming that Suzuki can sell enough cars during the next 12 months to stay in business.)

    As a matter of policy, I stay away from new models during the 1st year of production. Let a few thousand buyers cut ahead of you in line.

    It's not as if you're trying to squeeze a few more miles out of an early 90s Corsica.

    You say that you're in a good position to buy now, but a year from now you'll be in an even better position, with more equity in your current car & more money in the bank for a larger down payment.
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