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Comments
If it's like the recent Syracuse Auto Show that happened the weekend after Super Bowl, it'll be quiet.
Toyota had the largest square-foot area at the show, with fifteen different vehicles. The only people there were local dealer salespeople staring at their literature or the floor, trying to keep themselves occupied. The general public was huddled in the Ford and Hyundai sections next to them. Both had half the area of Toyota's display, but had at least three times the foot traffic at any given time.
Nobody is suggesting that you can't drive a stick in traffic or that you should switch to autos so I don't understand why you keep harping on it.
I think in a lot of states you pay sales tax on the total sales price before the rebate comes off. Could be different in OP state though. Just a thought.
Since I'm a sedan guy, I'd go for the Legacy over the Outback. And although I'm a bit of a manual tranny bigot, I'd confuse friends & enemies alike by opting for the 3.6 liter 6, which can be had only with an auto.
Is anyone else attracted to this car? I'll give the new design at least a year to season, so I won't make any move before 2011 at the earliest.
I do think the previous generation Legacy GT sedan is yet another car I should have purchased instead of the '07 Accord. Ah buyer's remorse :P
The interior of the old Legacy was just too tight feeling in the shoulder room for me and the interior quality was a little lacking.
If big "S" emblems are the worst thing about the Kizashi, I won't mind. My bigger concern is scarcity of dealers and long-term support. Will Suzuki survive in the U.S. market? I think that is a realistic question.
I am curious to see how the Altima has been improved. I thought the old interior was only OK. From other comments, it appears to have been significantly upgraded.
I think that is where there is a little disconnect in this discussion. You see in the NE and Midwest we have things called snowstorms and they happen quite often between Dec. 1 through about April 15. When they hit anytime around rush hour, am or pm, in a city of any size there is almost automatic gridlock. There is no lugging along at 5 mph in 1st gear. It's stop and go and mostly on the stop side. I admit it sucks but it's reality. I have driven often in LA on business and it's bad but add 6"-10" of snow to the equation and you too would have a limp left leg no matter how expert you are at driving a manual.
I grew up on a farm, drove fuel truck and a lot of military vehicles besides manual autos and motorcycles. It's not brain surgery to try to pace yourself in traffic so you don't have to shift a lot. I will say, however, that I have never counted the number of times I have shifted especially during rush hour traffic. Who does that??? Anyway, there are a few benefits to a stick in the right situation. It's just that for most of us that just doesn't happen to be case.
Isn't it the same with the warranties from the other car makers?
If I'm stopped for more than a couple of seconds, there also is neutral... :P
Yes, people do try to creep in. There is a little bit of a game envolved in keeping about 15 ft between you and the next car. Enough so that you don't have to hit the brakes and nothing short of a Smart Car dares to squeeze in front of you(evil grin - that would be one DUMB Smart Car considering my 4200lb 4x4 truck that would probably run it over without a scratch)
EDIT - #1 reason I'll never buy a Smart Car? I'm driving the Smart Car Terminator(tm) and know what it would do to one. :P
Smart Car Terminator(tm) saves money of Smart Car drivers. How? No need for a coffin:)
1. exist or...
2 work for Hyundai
tells us nothing at all about the validity of Hyundai's warranty. If this person exists and does work for a dealer, AND is having to sue for back pay the most that can be said is that particular dealer is screwing their employees somehow and is a bad employer. It means nothing in the larger context!! The joke is that somehow you tie all this together to make the "point" that the warranty is nothing but a gimmick. By the way ALL manufacturers require that certain conditions are met (that is, specific requirements as outlined in the owners manual are followed) before authorizing warranty work. You can't ignore oil changes, periodic inspections, filter changes, minor adjustments etc then come back and demand a new engine or transmission when you run it dry. Get real! This is a universal truth for any auto manufacturer.
Granted, I am not a particular fan of Subaru. I had bad luck with a 2000 Legacy Outback that I used to own - the car had a lot of first year model manufacturing bugs and recalls, and it was expensive to maintain (even before it started developing the common head gasket issues that plague Subaru boxer engines). It needed significant engine repairs at just 75K miles, so I got rid of it.
Agree that it would be a good idea to wait on the new Legacy until 2011. But I would seriously look at the competition (particularly Ford and Hyundai - the Fusion is a very solid car, and the new Hyundai Sonata is a knockout).
Yeah, the 4 cylinder non-turbo barely cuts it in our smaller/lighter wagon with the manual; I think a bigger vehicle with a CVT would be painful. I don't feel like it's underpowered, but I don't feel like it has any extra either.
Heh, Mine's an old 4Runner with three inch steel bull bars, skid plates, and a whole slew of other 4x4 goodies on it(all well used and in various stages of rust, thankyouverymuch). Yet I'm not nearly the largest thing out there. Maybe the oldest and most anti-yuppie thing in my town, but no way am I the largest. I figure 1 out of every 3 vehicles I see is a pickup, SUV, large mega-van(not so mini-van any more are they...), or worse yet, a delivery van or commercial vehicle.
You seriously have about a 1:3 chance of something larger hitting you in an accident in a normal car. In a Yaris, it's a disaster waiting to happen. But maybe you survive as the car sacrifices itself to save you... maybe. Not happening in a Smart.
It's also why as much as I adore small cars, I won't dare drive anything that's not at least the size of a Accord or other midsize sedan. Oh - I looked at the new Lexus crossover (RX 350?) and was actually impressed for the first time. Quite a decent vehicle. But I got the impression that the dashboard weighs more than the doors on the Smart...
Not sure whether it fits here, though - probably not. But it WAS a nice midsize 4 door car/suv "thing".
Still, I'll look closely at the Sonata. It is, as you say, a knockout & no one shopping in this market segment can ignore it. Although I used to say that I'd rather have a used Toyota than a new Hyundai, I'm not reluctant to eat those words. Hyundai has clearly arrived.
About the Fusion: it's an attractive car - arguably the best mid-sized Ford sedan to date - but my wife would not let me buy another Ford. She hated the only Ford we've ever owned - a Taurus that we bought in the early 90s. It wasn't a bad car - we kept it for 13 years (7 years as her car followed by a 6-year stint as my station car) - but to her it was just too big, crude & homely compared to the Japanese cars that preceded & followed it. I could sell her on almost anything else, but I think I'd be exiled to the couch if I brought home a Ford.
In any case, I'm in no hurry. It's our family financial policy not to buy a new car until we can pay cash for it. The thought of writing that big check makes us cautious, deliberative buyers. It's easier to do nothing at all. Right now, I think that I'll go into the market next year, but when next year rolls around, the odds are better than 50/50 that I'll decide to wait another year.
been skipping around all over the net, on several forums and here
of course. I actually own a Hyundai, a Se V6 Sonata "and a very
good vehicle I might add", not sure what you own to drive if anything???
Is what your saying about the 100k warranty experience or hear say.
And you may have a friend that works for a certain dealership that
sells only Hyundais, what does that have anything to do with warranty?
Sure as with any other car makers warranties, you screw up and not
take care of your auto "YOU" threw it away!!! The people that work on
these vehicles are not stupid as you make think. If they get a piece
of junk in and it's obvious everything has been neglected, what do you
expect. I did mechanic work, I can tell in about 5 minutes how that
engines been treated. Example pull the dip stick out, wipe the oil
off and look at the stick itself. If you see a dark brown shilack build
up that won't easily wipe off, guess what? "yep you right"!
As for as your friend and his back-pay that could mean many
things, as in "nothing to me".
Now do you think me and all these other people that read and post
on here would be ignorant enough to buy a car brand that don't stick
behind their products. Give us a break man, not all of us like to
be insulted. Please think about what you want to post here, we
are educated people, I can also read between the lines, don't
try that either. OK. Give us some constructive critisism you also
have the right to your own opinion! Have a nice weekend sir or miss.
I knew I couldn't shut-up!!! LOL
Toyota looks to have the most floorspace, across all 3 brands, then GM, then all the Ford brands, then Chrysler (gotta love 'em for trying), and then Hyundai. Hyundai's exhibit dwarfs that of Nissan--and that's w/o the Kia exhibit. Maybe lots of 2011 Sonatas to sit in.
And what's with BMW???
Re; the Hyundai warranty. These are my third and fourth Hyundai's, and I have never had even the slightest warranty problem with them. Admittedly, I have had very few problems, but those I had were taken care of quickly and completely. As with all manufacturers, the dealer is who the consumer works with, and the dealer can make or break the buyers satisfaction with the product.
BMW. Hmmm....rear wheel drive....March in MN(like Feb in rest of Midwest).....just a thought. Can't figure that either...maybe they just don't have any new product that's exciting. I know somebody will slam me for not knowing but I really don't follow BMW much.
Oh well, I won't be buying another BMW anytime soon, so just as well they aren't there.
Mazda 6 - The winner
2nd place - Honda Accord tied with Subaru Legacy tied with Nissan Altima
3rd place - Ford Fusion
4th place - Chevy Malibu
5th place - Suzuki Kizashi tied with Toyota Camry
Interesting noted; ALL cars but the Suzuki Kizashi and Toyota Camry were noted for excellent interior quality. For the Camry "The interior that was once lauded for its quality feel now seems cheaply made, with poor panel fitment and low-rent materials.
Oh? Sounds like they made an improvement over the 2009 Model. :shades:
I don't know if they reuse the displays from one show to the next, but Toyota needs to seriously find a different company to put their display together, or at least get someone to proof read what they plan to display. They have the Sienna display, the one where the man looses his cohonies, "daddy likes", on one pillar they had in rather large letters a line about their back seat entertainment center. They really need to get a better understanding of words, because duel means to fight, but what they really were trying to spell out was the dual-view video system.
Needless to say I LMFAO. I took a few pictures for posterity too.
Several other companies wanted to charge as much as $440 a month (are they kidding me? Thats more than the car payments!!) I think mostly because it wasn't in their system yet and they knew almost nothing about it. So it definitely depends on the company. I previously got almost the same quote on a 2010 Sonata SE V6 as well. I just ran the 2010 Ford Fusion Sport through the online quote system and you are right, $621 for 6 months. Not a huge difference but I'm still surprised.
****
Yet another reason to find a 2-4 year old version of most anything and not but new. Insurance and the first 2-3 years registration is a hidden "tax" that most car buyers don't begin to factor into the price.
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True Cost to Own®
___________Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total
Depreciation $7,257 $2,096 $1,845 $1,635 $1,467 $14,300
Taxes & Fees $2,467 $147 $133 $121 $111 $2,979
Financing...... $1,452 $1,170 $868 $544 $197 $4,231
Insurance...... $1,976 $2,045 $2,117 $2,191 $2,223 $10,552
Ouch? That first year is brutal and essentially a luxury tax in disguise. Even by year two, it's reasonable. (this is on the above mentioned Sonata SE)
However, I think most people realize there is a big dollar penalty in buying new. A lot of people save and skrimp for years just to be able to buy that brand spanking new car every 7-10 years. It is just as important to them to have that new car smell as it is to you to save money. Other want to know that the car they're buying has not been abused and they're willing to pay a price for that. To each their own.
One mans overpriced vehicle is anothers chump change (King Of Dubai silver Audi) and anothers persons very affordable Rolls is a stupid purchase to some.
Everybody has to decide for themselves. Plekto is at the 2 or 3 year mark, I'm at the new mark.
One mans overpriced vehicle is anothers chump change (King Of Dubai silver Audi) and anothers persons very affordable Rolls is a stupid purchase to some
Eh, I think this is pretty easy to document...a new car cost (payment, insurance, registration, depreciation maybe) vs a used car (same, but with increased maintenance/repair, not as advanced, which could be good or bad, etc)
When I got rid of the '93 Accord for the '07, its maintenance costs had peaked and I was spending more on repairs than a car payment would be. So I bought a then new car that was already outdated (no MP3/iPod stereo in '07, puleeze :sick: ). But alas, a smarter purchase would've been a used domestic, but there was nothing in '04-06 that I really liked from the moderately sized 3.
When I bought my last new car in 2007, IMO the best value probably would have been a year or two old used Taurus for maybe $12K. I considered that, but decided to spend $4K more to get the new Mazda6 that I wanted. It depends on your financial situation how significant that kind of difference is.
If the entire cost of the car is a month or two's income and the value of your investments fluctuates by as much as the price of the car on many days, then the difference is much less than it is if you are making $10 per hour and have no savings.
Yet the reality is that even a 1-2 year old car with 20-30K on it will be so close to new for most people that they can't tell the difference. On average it amounts to a 10K+ savings over the life of the car in lower payments(less interest), lower insurance, lower tax and registration, saved depreciation, and so on.
That's a lifetime of repairs and then some and in many cases it STILL has some of that new car smell(though being that that is actually outgassing plastics and fabrics and paint, it's even not remotely healthy...)
Plus, there isn't hardly any car out there that will be used up or even really broken in at 20-30K miles. It's a really safe move. And if you really do have the extra cash, you can go up a level or two. V6 for a 4 cylinder price. Win-Win.
So buying used isn't for everyone, there are some of us where buying new does work out. Insurance for me is very low, I have full coverage on a 1999 F350 Crew cab Dually diesel truck, the 2010 Fusion Sport and the 2010 Flex Ecoboost, in IL, and it costs me a little over $1600 a year for all three. The Sport is over $300 for 6 months, the other 2 are under $300 for 6 months.
Now here is something funny, I had just opened some mail that I got Saturday, and found the bank I got the loan from on the Veracruz sent me a $550 check for over payment. In addition, there was an disability insurance policy on the loan that I may be able to get some money back on. This must be trickle down from owning the Prius. When I traded it, I had a warranty that I paid $1900 for, found I could get it for $895, dealer sent me a $1200 check for the difference, then when I canceled the warranty, got back an additional $1400. OK this makes up for all the cars I lost money on! :shades:
Chevy Malibu - excellent build quality, very attractive inside and out, smooth engine, very quiet ride, but uncomfortable (for me) driver's seat, mainly because the seat is too sculpted for my large rear end.
Honda Accord - Good build quality, fairly comfortable front seat, excellent handling, powerful engine, but noisy ride (road noise and wind noise).
2010 Hyundai Sonata - decent build quality, very comfortable front seat, fairly quiet ride, but whiny, wimpy engine.
2011 Hyundai Sonata - Very stylish exterior, very nice interior, extremely comfortable driver's seat (best I've ever encountered - I don't know why I didn't see it that way my first test drive), very good power, very good handling. Definitely the car for me.
Problem - the color/model combination I want isn't available in the Washington DC area right now, so I'll have to wait awhile.