Midsize Sedans 2.0

Karen_S · April 2010

It is with great sadness that we announce that our dedicated Host, Pat, passed away just before midnight on April 29. Pat battled a rare autoimmune disease called systemic Scleroderma.

Pat became a member of the Forums in 1997 and was asked to become a host in 1999. Pat was diligent in her role as the Host of Sedans and while some may not always have agreed with her decisions, she always sought to make Sedans an inclusive place for automotive consumers to gain information and support. As a co-worker and friend, she will be greatly missed. At this very sad time for Pats family, we extend our deepest sympathy and condolences.

thegraduate · April 2010

Not to sound like a smart-aleck, but have you tried driving it at night? I do realize that the days are much longer, but perhaps you could explain to the dealer why you'd want to keep the car overnight, even if just driving it home (or on a dark road) then back the next morning.

One person may feel the lights are good, only because they are relative to another vehicle they have that has poor headlights. Its best to find these things out yourself.

kdshapiro · April 2010

Even though this is an online community, one gets to "know" people.

Pat was an integral part of the conversation in these forums. My condolences go out to her family. Pat will be missed.

Ken

thegraduate · April 2010

I had no idea she was ill - I too feel like pat and I go way-back. I joined the forums in '05, and through many discussions, we usually agreed, sometimes disagreed, but were always friends. I knew I hadn't seen her around lately, and am saddened to hear why. As a relatively long-time member of this forum, I can truly say she'll be missed.

vigorlover · April 2010

My girlfriend is in the market to upgrade from her 2000 Corolla. She was set on just getting a Prius, but I insisted she drive a few other cars. I first had her drive Mazda6 iGT and she seemed to like it ok (except for the red instrument lighting), but when she drove the 2011 Sonata Limited she liked it better. Now I just need to convince her away from the Prius...

explorerx4 · April 2010

Karen,
Very sorry to hear of Pat's passing on.
Considering that she was a moderator on Edmunds for many years and we never met her in person, do you know if there is an online portal through the funeral home to post thoughts or condolences?
I understand that there are privacy concerns, but I am sure there are Edmunds members who would like to express their thoughts there, if available.

Thanks,
explorerx4
.

xmech · April 2010

Well, I have an SE, But I doubt the headlights are any different, and I think the headlights are a little lacking, although I find for driving around the city highways, like I usually do they are fine. I had to adjust the fog lights up quite a bit, and I've heard some people adjusted the headlights up a little, too. I might have done it if I was driving around the backwoods of Wisconsin, but like I said, their OK for the big city. I was amazed how useless the foglights were until adjusted properly, and I'm suprised for all they got right on the Fusion, how they could fumble when it comes to something so simple. I have a joke in my head about it, but the world is too politically correct and sensitive to laugh at ourselves, so I must refrain....

Also, my condolences also for Pat's passing. Didn't really know her, but sorry to hear one of our group has passed.

canddmeyer · May 2010

Sorry to hear about Pat. She was a good host and moderator.

mickeyrom · May 2010

Condolances

suydam · May 2010

Why shouldn't she get a Prius if that's what she wants?

mz6greyghost · May 2010

My sincerest condolences to her family and to all here at Edmunds that knew her. She will be missed.

Karen_S · May 2010

Thanks to all for your kind words. For those that would like to express sympathies directly to her family, you may do so here.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/pilotonline/obituary.aspx?n=patricia-inman&pid=- 142371375

temj12 · May 2010

Thank you for posting this link. I am so sorry to see her leave this life. Scleroderma
is a tragic disease.

bobad · May 2010

Long story short, I keep a car until I've saved the full cash price of the next one. I simply refuse to put up with car payments. That's why I don't care a flying fig newton about resale value.

That's about what I do also. Rather than obsessing over resale value, one should look at how much the car cost per year to own. That way, buying price, maintenance, and resale value are all factored in.

My previous car cost me ~$1400 per year over 11 years. When my current 06 Sonata gets to ~$1600 per year, I will sell it. I'm hoping it will be under 10 years.

dave8697 · May 2010

been

dave8697 · May 2010

Toyota boasting they spend a million dollars a minute on developing better cars. Too bad 90% of that is spent in Japan.

explorerx4 · May 2010

i can't understand why someone measure their vehicle only by cost.
if you situation is constant, maybe somewhat.
i need to like a vehicle every day.

fushigi · May 2010

At 24x265 that's $1.4 billion a day and over a half trillion dollars a year. I don't think it's possible for any company on earth, heck not even our government, to have that in their R&D budget.

At one 8 hour shift and a 5 day work week that's still $480 million a day and almost $125 billion a year. Still not reasonable for any company.

What's the source for this mil-a-min figure?

bobad · May 2010

i can't understand why someone measure their vehicle only by cost.

Are you talking to me?

I hope not, because I do like my Sonata. I chose it carefully, and certainly wouldn't have bought it if I didn't like it a lot. Quality, reliability, and economy make me like it more as it ages.

bobad · May 2010

USA Today recently posted an 8 car comparison for family sedans costing under $25,000.

The Sonata won, and won by a wide margin.

Surprisingly, the Fusion finished last. I don't get that at all. There's nothing to dislike about the fusion except perhaps certain small details in the styling.

Not surprisingly, the Camry was criticized for not having good driving characteristics, and Accord for being rough, noisy, and looking cheap.

jeffyscott · May 2010

That comparison is here:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-05-03-sedan-shootout_N.htm?loc=intersti- tialskip

smarty666 · May 2010

The Altima and Fusion should be much higher than they are and the Camry much lower than it is. Cannot really argue with their number 1 choice. Even I can understand why the Sonata won!!

jeffyscott · May 2010

Fusion lost points on the car seat test. "A team put two child seats and one booster in each car. This score represents how well the three sits fit."

I'd say if you are planning on putting all that in, get a minivan. :P

That and the "family comfort" rating seemed to have the biggest range of scores and really just tell you which of these are the biggest. So if you are not looking for a bloated midsize vehicle, you might come to a different conclusion.

akirby · May 2010

Anybody else find it strange that they only used one family in the test? You could do this comparison with eight different families and get eight different winners.

urnews · May 2010

Yeah. What's up with the one family deal? And 40 percent of the score, too, if I read correctly. Boz

explorerx4 · May 2010

i watched a few of the video's and found this nugget. the dad's highest priority was 'social viability', so now you know why the fusion and malibu ended up with low scores. that is to hyundai's credit, though.

explorerx4 · May 2010

relax De Niro,

I was only making a general comment.

syitalian25 · May 2010

He didn't seem like a Hyundai fanboy, so the fact that he thinks the Sonata is the car which he will be the most proud to show off to his friends really says a lot about Hyundai's improvement of the brand's image. I bet nobody would have said that 10 years ago, not even me and I had one.

wolverinejoe80 · May 2010

Sonata deserved #1 spot. it sure is a total package. but fusion finishing last?

It absolutely doesn't make any sense. At worst, Fusion should've been a 4th place. i would've ranked Fusion #2. I've driven every cars among the list except Kizashi, but i probably won't score it too high because i really don't like the styling.

but man, i thought i would never see this kinda injustice.

explorerx4 · May 2010

well it is Los Angeles and the Sonata it the 'flavor of the month'.
one more thing, it would be nice to know what the family reviewers drove as their everyday transportation.

vigorlover · May 2010

Well I personally do not like the Prius, so I am a little biased in my own opinions. The point of my efforts to expand her horizons is that she had decided her next car would be a Prius before ever even driving one. She had no interest in even looking at any other hybrid, it was just going to be Prius. I have had the 2009 Prius as a rental twice, and in my opinion the only thing it has going for it is the gas mileage. Now I understand the 2010 is improved, but I did not want her to get an eco-status car for that reason alone.

She is not a car nut. She still drives the 2000 Corolla she bought new right after college. It is entirely up to me to get her to look into anything other than Prius. This weekend while getting new tires for her Corolla (the wheels were out of balance and the old tires had worn down to the point where it could not be remedied) I took her to the Acura dealership and she drove what I hope will be her next car: 2007 Acura TSX. The interior is nicer than any of the other cars she has looked at (Prius, Mazda6, 2011 Sonata) and it costs less to boot.

backy · May 2010

Well, it probably didn't make any sense that the Camry finished first in the latest MT comparo, in which the Fusion was 2nd and Sonata 3rd. But that's what happened. Which demonstrates I suppose that criteria can be designed to deliver just about any outcome you want.

jeffyscott · May 2010

One of the linked items included what they drive: Right now, they drive two German cars: a 2005 Mercedes-Benz C240 wagon, bulging with kid stuff, and a jaunty 2008 Audi A4.

The whole thing seemed very weak, in addition to being heavily based on one couple's preferences, they had manufacturers guess what would be the most appealing package, then they also give no details on why the "pros" rated them as they did.

tlong · May 2010

The whole thing seemed very weak, in addition to being heavily based on one couple's preferences, they had manufacturers guess what would be the most appealing package, then they also give no details on why the "pros" rated them as they did.

USA Today is not exactly the world's gift to journalism.

It's also not an auto magazine.

I guess people will not be so harsh on Consumer Reports any more.
:P

jayrider · May 2010

Have her take a test drive in an audi a3 tdi or a jetta tdi. Nice drives and great mpg. The new clean diesels deserve a look.

smarty666 · May 2010

I don't think so, especially since the entire Ford line-up is now on the recommendation list with almost all their products having better than avg or much better than avg reliability! So they can't say there is bias against the American manufacturer's anymore!

I mean my God, the Fusion had an almost perfect (all full red circle) scores in every single category on the reliability history chart. That was even better than the Japanese, German, and Korean counterparts!

bobad · May 2010

relax De Niro, I was only making a general comment.

Good! I guess you sensed the lit cigar coming toward your eye.

Kidding aside, I agree with you that cost of ownership isn't everything. If you don't like the car, it ruins everything. There's a lot to like in every car in this segment.

temj12 · May 2010

You are correct. That is why I am looking at buying one. I could not believe those ratings.

vigorlover · May 2010

Well the Audi is out of her price range, but we could take a flyer on the Jetta TDI.

cannon3 · May 2010

I own a 2006 SEL V6 with almost 58,000 trouble free, squeak free, rattle free miles! This car is as solid as the day I bought it. Out of curiosity I test drove a 3.5 Fusion and wow! This car is plain fast for what is supposed to be a family sedan. Of course the Sonata finishes first, its the newest that is the way it always is. Rankings are all over the field for these sedans, it depends on who you read, or believe.

explorerx4 · May 2010

thanks for that info. it seemed to me like the couple was talking down their noses about the cars being compared.

dave8697 · May 2010

A Toyota TV commercial in Indy last week. I've seen it a couple times.

midas69 · May 2010

Looks like they changed the commercial. The one I saw yesterday now says $1 million per hour rather than per minute. That makes a little more sense.

tlong · May 2010

over the fact that "midsized" has redefined over the past 10-20 years to be what we would have called "very large" in the past?

Today the Civic, Corolla, and Jetta are pretty much midsized by older standards. Midsized today is too darn big.

thegraduate · May 2010

Technically, what we think of as "midsized" cars from 20 years ago were EPA compacts.

vigorlover · May 2010

I was quite dismayed last month to find that my "midsize" car from Hertz was a Corolla. This despite the fact that their website says midsize is "Mazda6 or equivalent". I bet Mazda would be pissed to find out that Hertz considers Corolla to be the Mazda6 equivalent.

vigorlover · May 2010

She drove Jetta TDI last night and liked it. (each time I take her to a new dealership she likes that car the best: Mazda6 -> 2011 Sonata -> 2007 TSX -> Jetta TDI ) She may even talk herself into wanting the SportWagon.

What do you guys think about Jetta TDI? Overpriced? Reliability concerns? Wait for the 2011?

berri · May 2010

Yeah, those rental car size categories can be kind of misleading to me. Get an upgrade from full size and you get an Impala with leather instead of cloth! I've noticed Hertz seems to have gotten a crap load of Toyota's recently. They probably bought smart at the bottom of the UA crisis.

plekto · May 2010

(each time I take her to a new dealership she likes that car the best: Mazda6 -> 2011 Sonata -> 2007 TSX -> Jetta TDI )

Well, then for sure don't let her test-drive a TSX or a CTS or anything that's pricey :P

vigorlover · May 2010

2007 TSX is my preference for her, can be had for less than $22k, which is $5-6k cheaper than a new Prius IV or Jetta TDI. She is hung up on gas mileage though.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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