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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    What? The Flex is not a midsize car with a high rear roof. My mistake. Back to topic.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Heads up.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Heads-ups are best handled by email. If I see your "heads up," I've already seen and elminated the spam. The "heads up" post doesn't, surprisingly, send an alert to my bedside and wake me up. :)

    Also, let's get back to midsize sedans. I don't think we can legitimately call the Flex a midsize sedan... even if we cut the top off, it's still more like a full-size sedan, and I don't have a torch handy anyway.

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  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If my opinion is just a WAG, then that would also make your opinion a WAG, so let's call it a draw and get back to midsize sedans.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But waking you up would be rude. :)

    Thanks kirstie!
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    For anyone in the market for a car in the next 3-6 months, or even anyone following the midsize market, what cars are on your test drive list?

    1. Kia Optima SX Turbo: Cant wait for this car. Lots of tech, great FE, looks fantastic and a ton of power and torque. Downside is that it's a first year model and while Kia/Hyundai is making fantastic strides and getting great reviews on the new models, they're still not quite as established as some other car makers.

    2. Ford Fusion Sport: So well reviewed and would love to have the SYNC system in a car. Power and performance make it sound like a fun car to drive. Downside would be the exterior look that I like but dont love and the FE on the V6 model isnt fantastic.

    3. Honda Accord EX-L: I've had a lot of experience with Accords and I trust them. Solid car and nice interior. Downside is I really dont like a lot of the design elements they've gone with lately and the car is so ubiquitous. It's everywhere.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    I would agree with your first two, dash5. Kia is now rolling out a system very similar to SYNC, so that's an additional point in their favor. My third would be the turbo Regal, when it appears. For that matter, since I found a normal four-cylinder Fusion perfectly acceptable for my driving style, the non-turbo versions of the new Optima and Regal would be cars I would seriously consider.

    I'd be interested in the Sonata, but my local Hyundai/Chrysler/Jeep/Mazda dealer is slimy. One other to consider for me would be the Altima--it's about due for a refresh, but it still looks fresh and rates among the class leaders.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    I would add the Altima. I like the tech, powerful V6(RUG for 2010+ and gets decent mpg, has great range which is nice in the winter(20 gal tank that fills on the driver side which I like) and the decked out models have every bell and whistle I like including mirror blinkers, Homelink, back-up camera, etc. The interior with the leather is very nice and approaches Infiniti in materials. Even the I4 has good power as it gets to it's peak hp/torque at lower rpms than just about all the competitors. Check out the prices at Fitzmall. They are around $5k+ off list which I think is a great deal.

    Downsides: CVT. However they have a 10 year warranty on that and seem to have worked out the bugs in the latest iteration. Every once in awhile when I park near someone with an Altima and see the owner I ask them how they like their Altima and not one has ever said they didn't like the tranny so maybe it grows on you. Others may not like the styling but I like it, IMO it kind of squats and looks like a road hugger even if it's not.

    I feel the exactly the same way about the Fusions Sport as you do. In addition, I don't like the interior that well either. Doesn't have Homelink which I really like. Agree totally on the Sync system...would love it but won't buy a certain car to get it.

    Optima=ditto.

    Accord= just can't stand the recent designs, otherwise it seems like a good car.

    Another I would add is the tubo Regal possibly. One of the few things that most reviewers cite is the lack of grunt and engine when pushed with the current I4. The turbo version could be very tempting as I loved the quality feel and sense of luxury when I drove one but it did feel a little anemic. If the price is right and it feels powerful and still gets decent mpg I would be very interested in it.

    I have other vehicles on my list but they aren't midsize cars so I won't go there.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Yeah I suppose I would swap out the Accord for the new Regal. Accord is kind of my go to car if nothing else out there appeals to me for whatever reason. My Dad and sister in law have one so I know exactly what I'd be getting.

    The Regal though, I've been kinda down on it lately. At first I was loving it but then ... what's it going to run me? Load it up now on Buick's site and it's almost 32k. With turbo what am I looking at? And color... it's either black, white, silver or beige?

    Having said all that, I can totally see myself test driving one and loving it.

    I really hope Kia comes through with that UVO/SYNC by the time the SX models hit the floor by the way. Does Buick have anything like that?
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I do like the Altima, it was actually one of my top contenders before I became aware of the Sonata/Optima and Regal. It's another car I'd revisit should I be disappointed in the others. Another good example of a styling i like but don't love, and a solid well reviewed car.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Click me!

    It's too bad it sounds like not much more than a refresh, since the platform hasn't had any significant changes in 9 years...

    The preview photos don't show much, other than the now-familiar C-pillar that seems to be untouched from the current version, The tail lights look good (although very similar to other restyled sedans), but the projector headlights and grille don't look very promising. What does, though, is the Pentastar V6 with a 6-speed auto (283 HP, 260 lb-ft). No stats on the I-4 yet...

    If the interior is as improved as promised, it just may get back on the radar of midsize sedan buyers. I'll still wait for the Fiat-based replacement, since just about every other sedan has been redone or refreshed since '01, and IMO Chrysler wasn't at the top of their game then either...
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    edited September 2010
    Supposedly based on this concept, which looks sweet, but yeah a Seabring refresh from what I have read:

    image
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think I saw something like that at the Chicago auto show but then again it could have a Fiat model rebranded as a Chrysler that I saw. Anway, it looked pretty nice and that new engine sounds very promising. It will be interesting to see if Chrysler can be viable going forward.

    Although I only have had one Chrysler in my life I rather enjoyed it. It was a 1964 Polara with the pushbutton transmission if I remember correctly.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Ford Fusion Sport: So well reviewed and would love to have the SYNC system in a car. Power and performance make it sound like a fun car to drive. Downside would be the exterior look that I like but dont love and the FE on the V6 model isnt fantastic.

    My brother recently traded in his '08 Altima on a '10 Fusion Sport. I got a tell ya, it's a hell of a good car. I was quite impressed at how well it drove. Quiet, refined, quick, and handling is impressive (the 3.5 v6 impressed me with it's smoothness and high end punch). Definitely a fun car to drive. Sync is very slick. It also says something, that the Fusion is my brother's first domestic car ever. Before the Altima he had an '06 Maxima.

    The exterior of the Fusion Sport has grown on me (I prefer it over the lower trim models). So has the interior. While it may not be the most exciting design, everything feels fairly substantial and quality of materials are better than the Altima and my dad's 09 Accord Ex-L v6 which feels a little on the rough side compared to the Fusion (particularly road noise is much more pronounced in the Accord).

    And what is it with the brakes on the Accords? My dad had to have his rear brake shoes replaced at 28k miles and apparently two other people he knows with '09 Accord's have had similar premature brake wear.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    edited September 2010
    Click me!

    As good as the current Fusion is, this'll only make it better.

    Don't know why it won't be available until '13, seems kinda long just to create a US version of a current car.
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    It took these guys a month to find it. I passed the same car on I-75 in August coming back to Detroit from vacation in Boone NC. I figured it was the Mondero in the USA for testing. If they are not going to base the new Fusion on the Mazda 6 architecture then this is what the current Fusion should be. Do it now Ford! :shades:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They had to merge the development schedules of both vehicles - the U.S. Fusion and the European Mondeo. Even thought it might be a 2013 model it will probably debut around March of 2012 which is only 18 months away.

    This is all part of Ford's global platform campaign - build one vehicle and sell it everywhere just like the Fiesta and the upcoming 2012 Focus due in March.

    Don't expect the new Fusion to look exactly like that. These are Mondeo testing mules. They wouldn't be showing the new body style now. Given what they were able to do with the Fiesta and Focus I expect a similarly stunning design.

    It's also very likely that the next Taurus will be built on this platform (stretched and/or widened). And the new Fusion will likely only offer 4 cylinder engines including at least one ecoboost (direct injection turbo) model.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited September 2010
    than this Mondeo-influenced new Fusion. I think that this is just a Mondeo-mule like was already stated, and Ford will change the bodystyle to something new. Ford is really going great guns right now, and Alan Mulally deserves much credit for it. You know there's lots of great people behind the scenes there with Alan, but man, this would be the American car company I would buy from if I was so inclined to buy American.

    Which I am not. :)

    image
    2013 Toyota "FT-86" which may be named Celica

    I want one of these RWD babies in 6-speed manual transmission form. Proposed pricing is right around $20,000 for the base model. It may get a boxer motor from Subaru with 190hp. 4 cylinders of course and with the proposed idea of keeping the body light that would be more than enough torque and power ta the wheels for this NE Nevada padre to spiddle out. But starting with a great bodystyle like that they can tweak and fiddle and fit all they want and further refine this beauty for production and delivery should be in late 2012 sometime.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    This may be on the edge of our topic but I'm wondering what others may think.

    It seems to me that a big drawback for many buyers to considering a Prius is it's looks. I fully realize the aerodynamics involved in the body styling to achieve that avg 50mpg, but what if it had good looking midsize sedan(interior is already EPA midsize I believe) or hatch metalwork on it and averaged say 45mpg?

    I don't think the aerodynamic change would affect the city mpg that much but the hwy mpg would probably be substantially reduced.. I still believe the avg mpg would be really high.

    I think it could be a very good seller.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You can get a Camry hybrid or a Fusion hybrid. But for some reason the hybrid sedans don't seem to sell as well. People WANT that weird styling.
  • shabadoo25shabadoo25 Member Posts: 232
    Part of the hybrid purchasing reasoning for some folks is to announce to the world how green or frugal they are.

    A hybrid version of an otherwise regular car doesn't do that in the way the distinct Prius styling does.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    A lot of them do but in conversations I've had with people a lot of them say that they love the 50mpg but just couldn't live with the styling. The Fusion and Camry use different systems and don't even approach the avg mpg the Prius does. I'm just saying I think you could use the exact system Prius does and put a more mainstream, maybe even sporty, body on it and it would attract a lot of people.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I'm sure there are some people that fall into that category but I don't think the majority want to "announce to the world" anything. They just like to use less gas and emit less polution. The hybrid versions of regular cars just don't come close to the mpg of the Prius.
  • metro3metro3 Member Posts: 6
    Time to trade and frustrated over options. Accord EXL-V6 vs Camry XLE V6. Accord has better handling and excellent fit and finish. Camry quieter ride but smaller, fit and finish not as nice, handling and brakes are not as fun to drive. Drive 25K /yr for sales job and want the the most reliable, comfortable ride possible with high residual value after 3 years. Currently driving '08 Accord EX-l I4. Road noise is horrible and I am done with 4 cylinder sedans.
    Would appreciate input for a vehicle around $32-35K that addresses the above comments.
    Somewhat concerned with Toyota based on negative PR over the past months.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Avalon
  • shabadoo25shabadoo25 Member Posts: 232
    Acura TSX.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Drive 25K /yr for sales job and want the the most reliable, comfortable ride possible with high residual value after 3 years.

    Based on that, both are reliable as you'll find. Which is more comfortable when you test drive them? My biggest problem with the Camry is I really dislike the interior look. Considering how much time you'll spend in it I'd base it on comfort and interior overall.

    As for other options I'd try the Ford Fusion, Altima and Hyundai Sonata. Actually for 35k you could probably get into a nice Maxima too.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Fusion or Taurus?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited September 2010
    Your idea may be tested in the not too distant future. Hyundai has said they plan to bring a hybrid version of the next-gen Elantra to market. That would be along the lines of your idea of a smallish hybrid sedan with a mid-sized interior. Whether it's sporty enough for you is up to you.

    image
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That's pretty much what I had in mind....something with some style period. The Prius is just so butt ugly IMO I know it's the most aerodynamic design and everything but c'mon. I'd gladly sacrifice a reasonable amount of mpg, say 4-6 mpg from what the Prius gives to have something that looks and handles a little more mainstream.
  • rhduke00rhduke00 Member Posts: 129
    For the money you're willing to spend you can buy a Hyundai Genesis Sedan. I recently bought a 2011 V-6 (3.8) with the premium package for $30927. This price was before taxes, title, and license and included a $1500 owner loyalty and $500 retired military discount. I realize that this car is not a midsize sedan but if you're willing to do without the tech package it can be had for a top of the line midsize car price. It placed first in a recent Car and Driver Comparison where it was favored over the Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES 350, Buick LaCrosse, and Ford Taurus. Do yourself a favor and test drive one.

    Link to CD article
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    That car looks great...a mini Sonata which is a good thing! Totally impressed here with the sleek design & crease down the side...it really has come of age. Now if it drives/handles as well as the Sonata, it could give the Civrolla some steep competition along with the Chevy Cruze. Along with the other contenders in this class, it should be quite interesting, as I see the Civrolla twins loosing many sales in the next couple of years. But like I said in the Cruze forum, I'll wait to form an opinion once I drive them all. Even though I get C & D and the Trend, I'll take their "reviews" with a grain of salt because in the final analysis, the only opinions I value are my wife's & mine as to our next purchase in 2012. It'll be her d d, so she must be totally satisfied with "her" choice.

    Looks like this segment will be the hot one in the foreseeable future...so I'm stoked that we'll be participating.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • xmechxmech Member Posts: 90
    I know it's not based on Prius mechanicals, but how about the Chevy Volt?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It's nice looking but it's a plug-in and MSRPs almost twice what the Prius does but that is the type of styling I was talking about. If the Prius can get avg 50 with the present body, could they put a body something like the Volt on it and still come in at...say 45 mpg avg. That would be a tempting midsizer.
  • akinakin Member Posts: 24
    As another posted also mentioned as well, for that price range you can easily get the Hyundai Genesis V6 with Premium & Nav package. This vehicle is competitively compared to vehicles costing $40k - $50k range. You should check one out and test drive it.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    http://www.kia-newoptima.com/

    Good stuff. The wheel choices are interesting, and, it looks really good with tan interior. Cant wait til October. Or I guess December for the turbo.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Click me!

    There needs to be a "yawn" smiley on here, since that's the only thing that comes to mind when seeing this.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Here's what plays in my head when I see the new VWs...

    Click me!
  • ergsumergsum Member Posts: 146
    It appears that the Sonata (20,639) is the 4th highest selling non-truck vehicle in the US for the month of September after Camry (30,769), Accord (24,127) and Corolla (21,060). 6th overall for all vehicles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,299
    the numbers after next month should be interesting after the Sonata recall.
    Not bashing it, just wondering how big an effect it will have on future sales.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Most, if not all, sedan hybrids sacrifice a good chunk of trunk space to make room for the battery pack. That may be another thing that turns potential buyers to hatchback hybrids like the Prius.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Maybe they should just build all hybrids as hatchbacks.Also,the Prius gets better mileage than the other hybrids.Maybe that has something do do with it.Don't you think?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    There's good looking hatchbacks and then there are others. Lexus is going to bring a hatchback hybrid that looks like a regular hatchback(similar to to a Golf or something) and appears to be using the Prius drivetrain/battery tech. It may get few less mpg but certainly(IMO) looks worlds better than the Prius. However, because it will be a Lexus you know where the price will be.

    Hyundai/Kia has proven you can make an affordable but striking midsize car....why can't we have an affordable and striking hybrid that gets 50 mpg like the Prius or very close to it. The Hyundai/Kia midsize hybrids will be interesting and like Back suggested earlier, the promised new Elantra in a hybrid form should really be good combo of good style with huge mpg.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    Sales should be fine...just look how well the Camry did in September after all their troubles. And Hyundai has been very proactive with this issue, so there should be no problem. Way to go Hyundai!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • kcokiekcokie Member Posts: 1
    I am looking at the 2010 Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and Mazda 6.
    I want good pick up, low road noise, and good handling in bad weather.
    I like a 4 dr (I think), but nothing too grandma looking either.
    I also want reliability. I'm getting rid of a Dodge Caliber with under $30K...definitely looking for upgrade (but a horse and buggy would be an upgrade from the Caliber). :lemon:

    Please help me decide. I've researched till my eyes go crossed.
    What is your experience with these cars? Or is there another car comparable in this category that you like better? My price range is $20k...someone made me an offer on a Honda Accord for $18K..($25K msrp.) I haven't jumped yet....just want to make sure I'm getting the right thing this time. :blush:
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I've driven the 2010 Accord a lot and it's a very nice car, at least the EX model. I think all the mid-sized in this segment are very good cars so it's a matter of personal preference. For 20k though it will be a base model, I'd say check out the 2011 Sonata and upcoming Optima just for the value you get. I'd also make sure I looked at the Ford Fusion.

    My personal list is the Optima, Fusion and Altima.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    Great car in this level...a few more features than the LX model & definitely worth the price. EX has a bit more features but bumps up the price. Also agree with the above choices but also check out the Ford Fusion...many folks seem to like it so maybe check it out. There are so many choices in this segment that you should have no problem choosing a few that meet all your needs.
    This is also a great time to buy as the 2011's are already hitting the lots and they want the 10's gone. If you can hold out till the Thanksgiving - New Years time period, even better time to buy!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2010
    Mazda 6
    As an owner of a 2007 Mazda 6i, I recommend the Mazda 6. I have 68,000 trouble free miles. It is sportier and better looking than the Accord, and I'm sure you can find good deals on them. I prefer not to drive the same car as everyone else. Check it out. :shades:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited October 2010
    If you have, in fact, got a solid offer for a brand new Accord with a MSRP of $25 for $18k plus ttl, I would jump on it. That is a fantastic price as it would probably be the Accord 4cyl auto EX model. The only other car that would be comparable equipmentwise, is currently available and would be similar to the $18k street price would be the Hyundai Sonata GLS.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,968
    If it is in fact for the EX model, run, don't walk, to the dealer...NOW!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

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