Midsize Sedans 2.0

backy · October 2010

I dunno... since some vehicles in the class offer five years of roadside assistance, transferable, 2.5 years of roadside assistance doesn't seem like anything to get excited about.

stephen987 · October 2010

Um, that would be the Sonata, right, backy?

Sandman6472 · October 2010

Toyota or Honda has never had this extra feature so for folks looking for this "extra", it might make the decision easier for them to make. I think this feature will become "standard" on all cars within the forseeable future, thus the point I was trying to make. Hopefully the next car we buy will have it as a standard feature.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

acdii · October 2010

I don't know, Ford has had 3 year 36k mile roadside assistance for at least 10 years now. I had it when I bought my 2001 F150 new in 2001. Both my Fusion and Flex came with it too. As for the free oil changes(maintenance) BMW has been providing that for a few years now too. So needless to say, nothing new they are doing here.

jeffyscott · October 2010

I thought every manufacturer had free roadside assistance, with the duration matching the full warranty.

backy · October 2010

LOL! Uh... no.

Hyundai's had five years roadside assistance for over 10 years, since they instituted their "long haul" warranty. Then Kia got it several years ago. Mitsubishi has a similar warranty. GM offers five years, 100k miles (others are unlimited miles). Then there's the Fords, Suzukis et. al. with 3 years roadside assistance. I just got a card in the mail from Nissan telling me that since I rejected their kind offer of an extra-cost warranty program when I leased my Sentra, they are giving me a 2-year extended warranty that covers just about everything (they say), including some wear items (haven't got the details yet)--but I think it includes roadside assistance. Kind of pales in comparison to those programs that offer five years, though. Heck, I still have nearly two years of roadside assistance left on the 2007 Sonata I bought second-hand last year. If Toyota is looking to stand out in the pack by offering a lesser program than several competitors... I am having trouble with the "so what?" test.

akirby · October 2010

Roadside assistance only costs $50/year (or less).

backy · October 2010

Over five years that's $50 or so less a year out of my pocket. Besides, it's more than that for all family members. If all cars in a household had roadside assistance, that's more than $100 a year saved. How is that a BAD thing? As the cars themselves get closer together in capability, it's the things like warranty, service, and perks like roadside assistance that will be the differentiators.

akirby · October 2010

The point was it's only a few hundred bucks. You'd save more with a $500 rebate.

backy · October 2010

Yep. I'll take the rebate AND the roadside assistance, AND the 10-year warranty AND the free oil changes for life, and anything else I can get, thank-you-very-much. :-)

Sandman6472 · October 2010

How do you like the Sentra? We were at the Nissan store yesterday and found the 2011 seats to be very comfortable but hated the outside mirrors, they have an odd shape to them. But overall impressed with the car. Not to sure about the CVT though. They also had a Rogue with aftermarket leather...nice ride with great ingress/egress for my spinal issues. Thoughts...opinions?

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

jeffyscott · October 2010

Far less than $50 per year, if you get it via your auto insurance, rather than AAA. I pay $8 per year per car through my insurance.

The other option is credit cards, which don't provide free service but at least you can call and get help dispatched and pay for the actual service yourself.

This is really a benefit that costs the manufacturer next to nothing, which is why I am surprised to learn it is not universal. We got 4 years on VW and 3 on Mazda, both matching the bumper-to-bumper warranty at the time of purchase.

More significantly both also provided free loaner car, when we had a warranty repair. I assume there is nothing unusual about that and that every manufacturer provides a free loaner, at least in cases where the car has to be kept for more than a day?

Sandman6472 · October 2010

Not all provide a loaner car...but they should. We got 5 years with our Mazda & now our insurance provides it to us. Especially nice that our girls have it on their cars...even though they've got newish cars...sh-t happens. But we love our free roadside just for the piece of mind...all makers should provide it for the life time of the car & be done with it!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

m6user · October 2010

I think supplying a loaner is strictly a dealer perogative and has nothing to do with the manufacturer. There may be a couple of manufacturers that somehow force the dealer to do it but I'm pretty sure it is few and far between. Manufacturers may encourage it though.

jeffyscott · October 2010

I am quite certain that for warranty work car was paid for by Mazda and VW, not the dealer. The paper work was for rental car and the rental car appeared on the warranty receipt. With one dealer I even had to go to enterprise to get a rental car. Perhaps "loaner" was the wrong term to use, these were rental cars either from the dealer's in- house rental fleet or from Enterprise.

Because we had an extra vehicle that needed to be used anyway, I turned down the free loaner/rental one time and the service adviser called several times when repairs were delayed, telling me that VW would pay for rental car if I wanted it.

backy · October 2010

Well, since the Sentra is a mid-sized sedan in the eyes of the EPA at least, I'll provide a short response: it's a good little car, and IMO the best new car I could get (last April anyway) for $179/month sign-and-drive. Smooth-riding, quiet, comfortable, decent back seat for a compact (outside) car, quality look and feel to controls, good mpg with a light foot (CVT). Mirrors are nice and big, the only thing I don't like about them is they don't fold. Fits my needs well, and if something better is available when the lease is up, I can toss the keys and walk away.

Funny story: the sales rep I work with, who drives a new, leased E350, saw my Sentra in a parking lot the other day and asked, "Is that your Lexus?" I told him it's mine, just not a Lexus. Not a "car guy", obviously.

m6user · October 2010

I think you were lucky on the manufacturers. Here's an excerpt from an article on autoblog.com posted today.

Looking to get some scheduled service work done on your GMC or Buick? If so, you may want to hold off for a couple weeks. Bloomberg is reporting that General Motors is considering instituting a vehicle loaner program for customers who bring in their vehicle for warranty work.

GM covers several brands. I don't think Ford(the manufacturer) has any program where it automatically provides loaners or rentals but dealers might. Even my Infiniti dealer doesn't guarantee a loaner but provides one if available.

dash5 · October 2010

New article and video on the Sonata 2.0T:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1010_2011_hyundai_sonata_2_0t_test/in- dex.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1010_2011_hyundai_sonata_2_0t_test/in- dex.html#ooid=lzbTdyMTp2tDrBvBAzBJfXrKYC19Fn0j

"As its performance on our test track reveals, the all-new Sonata 2.0T lives up to the hype. It not only ticked off a few more boxes, but likely its chief rivals as well..."

akirby · October 2010

Ford provides a subsidy to the dealer for rentals/loaners. I believe it covers all Lincolns under warranty and Fords for at least the first year. But my Ford/Lincoln dealer usually provides one regardless.

jeffyscott · October 2010

Our 1997 windstar had a free loaner for 1st 12 months. I don't know if that was the dealer or Ford at that time.

My kid was looking at a Lancer and the salesman told him there was free loaner, when warranty repairs are needed. Did not ask about the details, but I think that meant for 5 years and, if it were a power train issue, 10 years.

suydam · October 2010

My Nissan dealer let me drive a '10 Altima over the weekend when I had to leave my old Maxima there, and we live 45 miles away. It was nice -- like getting an extended test drive. I think that would be smart for dealers to do.

scottl · October 2010

I drove one yesterday.

Holy cow, what a nice car. 198hp direct injection 2.4L 4 cylinder, 6-speed auto or manual, 35 mpg(!), 4 wheel disk brakes, stability/traction control, 5 Star crash ratings under the NEW standard, bluetooth/iPod standard, steering wheel controls for stereo, phone, cruise, and info center, huge trunk, interior rated as full sized, very quiet, great firm ride, looks awesome. 5 year/60K miles bumper to bumper, 10 years/100K powertrain, 5 year unlimited on roadside assistance.

Made in the USA.

It gets rave reviews from all sources.

$19K with destination and dealer fees included.

Nothing in its class can touch that deal.

cannon3 · October 2010

As I don't doubt your review of the Sonata.. I do disagree with one point.

Made in the USA

How about we change this to assembled in the USA. The domestic content of the Sonata is 43%. Americans assemble the vehicle. I could go further and educate you about the tooling, spare parts, lead engineers/technicians in this plant.. but this is for another topic..

Cheers..

backy · October 2010

If you want to get nit-picky about it, than the correct thing to say is, "Americans assemble the vehicle and make 43% of its parts--including the engine (and soon the transmission)."

Find any machine these days of any size/complexity that has all of its parts made in the USA. I'll bet there's few if any of them. Even some "American" cars like the Ford Fusion have relatively low American parts content. But it's assembled in Mexico. Does that make the Sonata more "American" than the Fusion??

ergsum · October 2010

Note the revised front end that differs from the pre-production model.

Sonata Hybrid Review

m6user · October 2010

Like it. The hood is a little less melted look than normal Sonata and looks a lot better than most other hybrids. Noticed that they didn't give the steering wheel the beige insert to match the seats and it looks a hell of a lot better than the color treatment in the normal Sonata. The tranny should give a lot more of a regular car drive experience.

I'm anxious to see what the Optima Hybrid looks like. Haven't really seen thing on that, even pre-production.

dash5 · October 2010

Ditto on the Optima Hybrid. I like the Sonata Hybrid looks, and again some high praise in that article for the car overall and the hybrid drive train and batteries. Personally, I'd kill that chrome piece in front and remove that black plastic bar across the front. It'd look even better.

In any case, another hit for Hyundai looks like.

m6user · October 2010

Yeah, that chrome piece on the hood reminds of some after-market add on.

dash5 · October 2010

So what does everyone think of the new Regal in terms of classification. I personally have it on my list along with the Kia Optima, Sonata and Ford Fusion. It will cost more at the high end but it already fits in under 30k and they will be adding lower end models (soon?).

Anyone else cross shopping the Buick in with the other midsized sedans?

It's going to come down to test drives and I'm really hoping to get the process going by year end but waiting on all the new cars coming out is taking quite a while.

stephen987 · October 2010

The question really boils down to whether there exists such a market. At $27k it's a very appealing alternative to a Sonata Limited or an Accord EX-L. At $30k it's a tough sell against an Acura TSX. At $33k it's a no-go against an Infiniti G37.

dash5 · October 2010

I'm seeing the Buick pop up all over with comparisons to the Sonata 2.0T. They are pretty close in price and offer turbo 4's instead of a V6. I think a lot of people will cross shop them.

m6user · October 2010

I agree with you. There is only about a 2k price difference in the Sonata LTD turbo and the Regal CXL turbo and they are equipped very similar with both having a couple of pluses that the other doesn't. With the Sonata you get better mpg and power and with the Buick you get a tighter, euro type handling drive and a little more upscale interior from a materials aspect. Warranties are even somewhat similar but obviously the Hyundai holds the lead there.

Just because Buick markets itself as the next premium brand, I think it's still in the inbetween land and will be looked at by both mainstream midsize buyers and premium brand buyers looking to save a few bucks. Don't know if either will buy it though....that the big question.

mz6greyghost · October 2010

My wife is interested in the Regal (to replace the Altima). She is looking for an "upscale" type sedan, and she loved the Aura. Besides the exit of Saturn, the Aura wasn't available with a manual (the Altima is a 2.5S 6-speed manual), and both engines on the Regal will be available with a manual (and a bold move for Buick, of which I commend them).

Buick is indeed an "in-between" brand, not mainstream (Chevy), but not luxury (Cadillac). Yet, GM has a ton of potential to make Buick a household name again, catching the attention of performance-oriented buyers (Pontiac) as well as trying to keep current Saturn owners within the GM family. Its going to take a LOT of work to convince buyers that Buicks aren't just for the retired set, but the Regal IMO is a step in the right direction.

dash5 · October 2010

Purely on paper the Sonata/Optima twins look like the better buy. Less expensive, more power, better FE, more room, more tech. Better warranty). More color choices. Styling is subjective but I like the Optima better than the Regal.

For the Buick, the interior looks really nice in pictures, the test drive reviews I've read have been very favorable in the case of the turbo. It's been around as a Insignia for a while, but then again it's significantly reworked in the US form from what I've read.

Again though that is on paper. A lot of reviews mention the refinement and feel of the Buick and that counts for a lot in my book.

m6user · October 2010

Again though that is on paper. A lot of reviews mention the refinement and feel of the Buick and that counts for a lot in my book.

I agree, it counts a lot in mine too. I really like the looks of the Regal as it kind of reminds me a lot of the Infiniti G. I really can't say I like the Optima better because I've only seen it in pictures. The Regal didn't really wow me in pictures but when I saw it in person I liked it alot. Hopefully, the Optima will wow both in pictures and up close and personal. From everhthing I've read, most reviewers have been wowed when seeing it in person even after liking the pictures.

plekto · October 2010

Though, don't necessarily confuse praise over Buick's first decent vehicle in a decade or two over anything resembling true class and refinement.

ahossa1 · October 2010

I test drove both the Regal and the Sonata and I prefer the Regal because it has a solid feel, more than the Sonata, it's very quiet car, a lot quieter than the Sonata. Where the sonata excels is the price point, fuel efficency and style. That turbo engine that the Sonata will have and still be fuel efficent (22 MPG) is going to be a huge deal maker for a lot of people. That's will be the sweet spot for a lot of enthusiasts.

m6user · October 2010

You're very negative. The Enclave has been praised and has/is doing very well. The LaCrosse is also doing well and now the Regal. Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years. There has been duds too but all in all they are showing a fair amount of promise.

thegraduate · October 2010

Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years.

Because mee-maw couldn't hear the whine in the transmission that was about to blow.

Kidding aside, doesn't JD take into account things like "I don't like the cupholder design" or "I wish they'd left the bench seat option alone?"

m6user · October 2010

I guess they take into account the same things they do when they rate all manufacturers. Not an expert on how they do things or necessarily an advocate of their process but it seems to be a fairly respected firm that all automakers reference in their ads if they are at or near the top of the ratings.

I just don't like blanket statements that are based on old news. I'm not even a Buick or GM advocate but bashing is just a waste of time IMO.

But transmissions are probably one of GMs better efforts over the years. I'd take a GM auto tranny over a Honda auto tranny any day.

thegraduate · October 2010

I've heard so many 3800 and 4300 GM engines whining like a toddler wanting his toy that I just associate them with transmission failure. Maybe they don't fail, but rather make the noise.

I trust the 4-cyl Honda transmission, but I wouldn't want a V6 Honda, after personal experiences with them and stories I've read. They made strides in "making it right" with the customers but still, a problem's a problem.

tlong · October 2010

I trust the 4-cyl Honda transmission, but I wouldn't want a V6 Honda, after personal experiences with them and stories I've read. They made strides in "making it right" with the customers but still, a problem's a problem.

Well, I just turned 100K on my 2005 Acura TL and no tranny problems yet! Also no repairs (other than battery, tires, brakes) at all during the first 100K, other than a door handle cap and the exterior temp sensor recall.

plekto · October 2010

I test drove both the Regal and the Sonata and I prefer the Regal because it has a solid feel, more than the Sonata, it's very quiet car, a lot quieter than the Sonata.

Well, it IS a better vehicle. You would expect a Mercedes to be engineered a little better than a Mazda. Of course, that doesn't keep either from making turds from time to time.

You're very negative. The Enclave has been praised and has/is doing very well. The LaCrosse is also doing well and now the Regal. Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years. There has been duds too but all in all they are showing a fair amount of promise.

True, GM is doing better all the time. But go drive a BMW 3 series or the G25. There's a world of difference between proven long-term success that nobody is talking about in the press as it's just old news versus GM making an above average car and not falling on its face again. Well, the lack of a turbo right off is a major "oops" - by the time it gets here, 90% of the novelty will have worn off.

The G25 is a radial game-changer, though. It crushes the entire marketplace. A Regal or a G25. Go drive both and honestly tell me if you don't feel like something is wrong that you can't quite put your finger on with the Buick.

mz6greyghost · October 2010

That turbo engine that the Sonata will have and still be fuel efficent (22 MPG) is going to be a huge deal maker for a lot of people. That's will be the sweet spot for a lot of enthusiasts.

Not if the enthusiast like to turn a corner, apparently.

IL just road-tested a Sonata SE 2.0T (the SE having a sportier suspension than the GLS), and despite being impressed with the turbo 4 and braking, body roll was "noticeable", and the steering felt "artificial" and provided minimal feedback. The author suggested offering a "sport package" to better match the suspension to the engine.

Considering that most enthusiasts I know (if not all of them) like to cut a few tight apexes when driving on a windy stretch of two-lane highway, they'd probably want a little more than the 2.0T can offer.

I wonder if the new Optima will do better in the handling department, since it already spanks the Sonata in looks alone...

mz6greyghost · October 2010

A Regal or a G25. Go drive both and honestly tell me if you don't feel like something is wrong that you can't quite put your finger on with the Buick.

Not a fair comparison, since the G25 is in an entirely different class as well as RWD (not to mention the not-so-small price difference a semi-loaded G25 will cost compared to the Regal). I've heard the Regal matches well to the Acura TSX, although I haven't driven a Regal yet to find out for myself...

As stated before, it seems to be a good "in-between" sedan, comparing well to the more-expensive midsize offerings, while saving a few $$$ compared to Acura and Audi. Does it compare to a G25? No way. But then again, I'm not expecting it to.

plekto · October 2010

People wanting luxury aren't wed to FWD or RWD, so that's not a huge factor. (if anything, RWD is preferred these days). They are roughly the same size and cost.

The thing is, they ARE in the same segment because there is considerable price overlap.(as with the TSX) Even without the turbo added, which will cost considerably more, your options are stripped out rental or properly optioned at 30-32K. It's just GM missing the mark again.

The TSX and G25 come standard with the equivalent of GM's 2nd to top trim level, with nearly every option added as their *base* models, which forces the issue, since GM's cars optioned out to match them are the same price. Nobody who buys a Regal wants a stripped-down rental, either. So the dealers are all only ordering ones that are in the 28-30K range as a minimum. Then charging full MSRP.

Shoot, a properly optioned-out Chevy Cruze is 27K. Something is just simply wrong with GM's pricing.

daneel · October 2010

Agree with you, tlong. My 2004 Accord EX V6 with automatic transmission has been superb over the past 58,000 miles, no problems, never "gear hunting", and as smooth as the day I bought the car. I will buy another V6 Accord without hesitation.

backy · October 2010

And then there are those millions of drivers who spend their driving lives motoring across the flat prairies of the middle US, or schlepping through rush-hour traffic on urban highways, and will never get close to using the full handling capability of even the most mundane mid-sized sedans.

You might try actually driving the 2.0T before saying that the car will leave all enthusiasts wanting. Of course, it's possible all enthusiasts would rather be driving a Porsche than a mid-sized family sedan...

mz6greyghost · October 2010

And then there are those millions of drivers who spend their driving lives motoring across the flat prairies of the middle US, or schlepping through rush-hour traffic on urban highways, and will never get close to using the full handling capability of even the most mundane mid-sized sedans.

You're right, but the vast majority of those millions don't consider themselves "enthusiasts".

You might try actually driving the 2.0T before saying that the car will leave all enthusiasts wanting.

I don't remember saying anything of the sort, I do recall stating that apparently, the 2.0T isn't geared toward enthusiasts that may also put a premium on handling. I will most likely take a 2.0T out for a test-drive soon, but it doesn't mean I can't read what other people have said about it.

Of course, it's possible all enthusiasts would rather be driving a Porsche than a mid-sized family sedan...

True, but it's also possible most enthusiasts can't afford a Porsche as a second (or third) car, and they also don't want to be stuck driving an "appliance" just because they need a reasonably-priced 4-door.

mz6greyghost · October 2010

So the dealers are all only ordering ones that are in the 28-30K range as a minimum. Then charging full MSRP.

Well there's your problem. :P Anyone that pays full MSRP on a GM vehicle isn't really dealing with a full deck anyway.

I'll bet that you'll be able to bargain a better price on a Regal easier than an Infiniti or Acura...

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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