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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Looks kind of ugly to me, but I would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and actually look at one in person. I like the focus we have.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited January 2012
    cars.com(kicking tires) just posted about Fusion with lots of pics and info like below which is somewhat different than what was posted by akirby.

    "Drivetrain: 170-hp, 2.5-liter four-cylinder, 179-hp, turbocharged 1.6-liter four-cylinder or 237-hp, turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder with six-speed manual (1.6-liter only) or six-speed automatic; front- or all-wheel drive (Fusion); 185-hp (combined), 2.0-liter four-cylinder with electric motor (Fusion Hybrid, Energi)"

    above from cars.com kicking tires blog

    Looks like they got rid of the shiny plastic chrome grill which always completely turned me off and still does on several of Fords vehicles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The 1.6L fuel economy is impressive--matches many compacts. The rear looks very Mazda6-ish to me. Not a bad thing, as I think that car is good looking (just drove one for a week). I haven't warmed up to the Big Gulp grille yet though. I think it would look better with less chrome, maybe a cross-weave pattern vs. the bars. It looks out of place with the rest of the car, which is very sleek. Dash looks to be a big improvement over the current car.

    The 1.6L with a 6MT could be not only a great value (as long as Ford doesn't do something stupid such as make a key feature like cruise or Bluetooth unavailable on the base model) but fun to drive with excellent FE.

    Wonder how the all-new Altima will compare?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Looks kind of ugly to me

    You think the Camry looks better than this? Where is that double facepalm when you need it........
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yep, the 2.5L is still there but not mentioned in the Ford press release. I guess they're focusing on the new engines, hybrids and PIH.

    The PIH will go 21 miles on electric only and should get the same 47/44 after that. The Volt will go 35 on electric only and only gets about 37 on the ICE.

    The regular hybrid can go 62 mph on electric only. Wow.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Yeah, actually I do think the Camry looks better.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    You need to have some cheap engine for the rental fleets!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    edited January 2012
    Very few fusions go to rental fleets. Most of the fleet sales are government. It's hard to find a Fusion rental car in most locations.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Had a Fusion from Hertz in Maui in 2010. Got it when our first vehicle, an Optima, threw a CEL.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Last time I rented, it was also a Fusion, also from Hertz. Maybe they're the only company offering them as rentals - not that I'm complaining. I was thrilled to have a Fusion instead of some of the less-palatable vehicles we usually have to choose from.

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  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yep, I got a Fusion SEL awhile back in Dallas. And a very nice rental it was. I think Hertz has quite a few Fusions in their fleets. But also a lot of Camrys, Malibus, and Altimas. They seem to have a LOT of Nissans in general.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Is it just me, or does this thing just scream for the 3.5L EB V6 and AWD? :)

    Even if it's a limited edition SVT, it would still draw some extra traffic to showrooms. All they need to do is detune the SHO V6 (down to, say, 300 HP) on regular gas. Add AWD, an upscale interior, a subtle body kit with a lip spoiler...
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You wouldn't need the 3.5L EB - you can get 310+ hp from the 3.7L NA.

    I expect a ST model with 300-320 hp with either a 2.7L EB or a 3.5/3.7L NA.

    There could also be a SVT model later with 350-400 hp. Since the CD4 platform will also be used for the new Taurus it makes sense that it was designed to handle the same powertrains as the Taurus SHO.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Not sure where your living, but I've seen plenty of them in the rental car parking lots here in the NJ, PA, and NY areas.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Not to mention Arizone.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Most of the reports I've seen on the web from frequent travelers say they never see Fusions now but see a lot of other makes. Maybe it varies by company. Fusion rental fleet sales are way down but they do sell a lot to government agencies and other commercial fleet customers. I don't expect the new Fusion to have much rental fleet if any at all.
  • ntrainerntrainer Member Posts: 2
    We are in the market for a new "commuter car" (e.g. car used primarily for commuting to work), since our old Acura Integra is on its last legs. A very sad moment, since we have loved this car for 15 years. (Seventeen years if you count the version of it which was stolen and gutted when we lived in Boston, but that's another story.) We're looking at lots of different vehicles, of course. Having spent such a long time with our Acura, we have come to rely on (and enjoy) the "luxury car" experience -- namely, when the car needs fixing, the dealership automatically provides a loaner vehicle and sends you on your way while the car is fixed. No waiting, no hassle. Yes, of course, we're looking for a fantastic, reliable car, and many of the luxury cars fit that bill anyway, but let's get real: all cars need service every now and then. We'd like to make it as painless as possible to get that service.

    I guess we're wondering whether we might be able to "cheat" this time and get a nicely-appointed, reliable car (like a Toyota or Honda) but pay less for it than the "luxury" vehicles... and still not spend two hours waiting for that 30,000 mile check-up. Or take a "shuttle bus" to/from the dealership.

    Is there such a thing as getting an automatic loaner vehicle at a non-luxury dealership? Or is this really one of the reasons why people spend $5,000 - $10,000 more for that luxury car?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The answer is "Yes", but this tends to be more per dealer service policy than manufacturer policy. Once you have an idea of the brand/kind of car you want, you could check dealerships in your area to see if they offer free loaners for service. In my experience, many dealerships do that for major services, e.g. something that will take more than an hour or two, or if the car needs to be kept overnight. Other dealers offer free shuttle service to your home or business. I've found that works well for me with a dealer that is just a few miles away... they take me home, I work out of my home office all day, and come back later to get the car when it's convenient for me (i.e. when my wife can drive me over there). And some dealers offer two-way shuttles, e.g. to/from work or the airport.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited January 2012
    Just because a dealer doesn't routinely provide a loaner doesn't mean it can't happen. If you use that as part of a negotiation I would think the dealer could flag your computer file to make it possible for you to get a loaner during your service visits. It may cost you a few hundred $$$ in price when you buy you the car but it would provide you with a service experience a little closer to what you've been used to. Remember though that it would only be at that dealer. If you moved or didn't end up liking the service at that dealer your "loaner deal" would not carry over to another dealer.

    Someone will probably say you could just rent a car from the dealer for the few times that service really took that long but I think you'd agree that it is a very different experience to just sign and jump in a loaner versus actually renting a car.

    Another thing to consider is buying an end of model year premium car may be not much more money than a newer non-premium car. And if you tend to keep your cars for a long time which it appears you do, it may be well worth it to drive the nicer vehicle for all those years.
  • altimatealtimate Member Posts: 74
    I can give you my personal experience. Leased a Subaru Legacy in 09 from a dealer some 15 miles from my home. The deal sealer was the offer of a free loaner for service. I could have purchased from a dealer just two miles from my home, but the place was a zoo. I was waiting for a salesman and I hear a gong banged and someone yell out "congratulations, another person has purchased a car from us". Frankly, I prefer to deal with a serious concerned for the customer dealer, not a three ring circus.

    I would agree that this is probably something that could be negotiated with your deal.

    Personally, I think the 13' Fusion is a likely candidate for my next car but, I'm a bit nervous about going back to a big impersonal dealership after my pleasant experience with the relatively small dealership I'm currently with. Well, that purchase is probably a year or two away so I guess I won't worry about it.
  • gene84gene84 Member Posts: 9
    I've put 70,000 miles on a 2001 Prius and 190,000 miles on my 2004 Prius. I know of no one who has replaced a battery in a Prius. Over 95% of a NiMH battery is recycleable. I've been told they are available from some junk yards for about $500 or from the dealer for $2,200 to $2,600. Local Toyota service dept. told me they have yet to replace brakes on a Prius. Local taxi company has 12, 2004s and a number of 2010s. Oldest have over $400,000 miles - maint. mgr. says "they are bullet proof, you can't kill them". Prius has no timing belt (cost $1,500 on a Jetta at 100,000 miles and $4,000 to replace catalytic converter when it goes out). Also Prius has no transmission service (has electric motor). Prius has no belts or hoses to replqace. THE LIST GOES ON. Best reason to own a Prius is not the high MPG but low maintenance cost.
  • gene84gene84 Member Posts: 9
    I've put 70,000 miles on a 2001 Prius and 190,000 miles on my 2004 Prius. I know of no one who has replaced a battery in a Prius. Over 95% of a NiMH battery is recycleable. I've been told they are available from some junk yards for about $500 or from the dealer for $2,200 to $2,600. Local Toyota service dept. told me they have yet to replace brakes on a Prius. Local taxi company has 12, 2004s and a number of 2010s. Oldest have over 400,000 miles - maint. mgr. says "they are bullet proof, you can't kill them". Prius has no timing belt (cost $1,500 on a Jetta at 100,000 miles and $4,000 to replace catalytic converter when it goes out). Also Prius has no transmission service (has electric motor). Prius has no belts or hoses to replqace. THE LIST GOES ON. Best reason to own a Prius is not the high MPG but low maintenance cost.
  • crankeeecrankeee Member Posts: 298
    Very informative post. I wrongly concluded that the batteries were ahigh cost maintenance item after a friends Ford Escape required $6000 in new batteries. He traded for a new one with new batteries and warranty. We see lots of Prius models in our southern location. They "like" the warmer weather and the short intown commutes. I may consider a Prius for intown use as our fleet wears down and gas continues higher. Thanks
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    The prius may not have any belts, but it should have some hoses. I am pretty sure it has air conditioning and a radiator.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    As of the 2010 model the Prius doesn't have any belts, but it still has hoses. See for yourself: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/112_0903_2010_toyota_prius_first- _look/photo_21.html

    As for the transmission, it doesn't have a trans in the conventional sense but still has gears and a differential to get the ICE output to the wheels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive#Transmission The Prius setup, as reliable as it may be in practice, actually sounds more complex than a regular AT or CVT.

    While you're correct that the Prius uses a timing chain & not a belt, your reference to the catalytic converter shouldn't matter as the Prius does have one - every modern car with an ICE does.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    So you are saying the Prius does not have an alternator? Seems strange to me. Any just because you can see any in that picture doesn't mean they are not there you can't really see anything in that pic the engine bay is too crowded. Has to have hoses for cooling the engine etc.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    http://jalopnik.com/5129290/2010-toyota-prius-bigger-size-meets-bigger-fuel-econ- omy-+-50-mpg notes the lack of belts. The Wikipedia article, under Power Sources, explains how the alternator function has been replaced by the motor-generator.

    Hoses are plainly visible in the pic; that's why I linked to it. Plus, as long as there's an ICE, hoses (or pipes) will be necessary as part of the ICE cooling system.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    Well, after 6 years and 82,000 trouble free, rattle free, squeak free miles. My trusty 2006 Ford Fusion SEL V6 is gone. Decided with gas prices headed up to 4-4.50 a gallon I better downsize. Bought a 2012 Ford Focus SE hatch back with all kinds of goodies on it. Farewell mid-size sedan group!
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    Just wanted to post an update about my 2006 Hyundai Sonata GLS that I got for $16,000 brand new in Dec. of 2005 now has 75,000 trouble free miles on it. I now see that Hyundai's are closer priced to Honda and Toyota, but at that time the Sonata was about $5,000 less than an equally equipped Accord or Camry.

    There were a lot of people on this board that thought the Sonata would fall apart after the new wore off. I hope to have this car for at least five more years.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My 2007 GLS turns five next month, 56k miles. I've owned it for 2-1/2 years (bought off a lease). It's been a great car for us. Still the original brakes, no major problems. Really the only problems have been a power recliner switch needed replacing a couple of years ago, and both sun visors had to be replaced as they kept flapping down--a common problem with this generation of Sonatas. Those fixes were done under warranty of course. Also used the roadside assistance a few times when my wife locked the keys in the car. That and the warranty expire in a few weeks. But I'm looking to get at least four more years out of the car, which my wife drives most of the time.

    BTW, I checked the KBB private party price on it the other day and it was only about $1000 less than I paid for it... shows the price escalation of Hyundais and cars in general in the past few years.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    Yeah, I also had to have both of my sun visors replaced (under warranty) and have had my ESC/ABS light sensor go off and fixed (under warranty). Outside of those two things, the car has been flawless. Still four years of powertrain warranty left. Glad I got in on Hyundai when I did, because I see their prices are shooting towards Toyota and Honda prices.
  • hotrod54hotrod54 Member Posts: 82
    Having put 404,109 mile on my '07 3.3 ltd, I can tell you with proper maint. and paying attention you will do just fine. I had no major problems, just routine maint. and routine wear and tear. Now with 80,000 on my '11 SE2.0T in 8 mos, I expect the same. Drive on with confidence. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    400k on a Sonata?! That must be close to a record. You should tell HMA about that... maybe they'll put you in a commercial. :D
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    Now with 80,000 on my '11 SE2.0T in 8 mos

    80k / 8 months = 10k per month
    10k / 22 working days = 455 miles per day

    Do you believe that? Even if a person takes a long trip once a month (say 1k miles), you still need to drive 9k / 22 = 409 miles / day. That's a whole day highway driving. :confuse:
  • moparblue2moparblue2 Member Posts: 86
    Yes that is easy to drive that much in a day. I drive 400 miles in six & half hours with two breaks all the time. That only avergeing 67 MPH :D
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Maybe he uses the car for delivery and pickup and is on the road 10-12 hours a day constantly driving from one place to another. Not something I would want to do but many people do that to make a living. Totally feasible.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    That's a lot of driving for anybody. 15 years ago my brother took a year off work and traveled the country in his '87 Jetta. He basically lived in that car and averaged almost 1,500 miles a week. He ended up with 255,000 miles on that Jetta. It was a red GLI with 5-speed stick.

    It's certainly possible. Having 400,000 miles on a 5 year old car and averaging 80K/year for 5 straight years? That's nuts, possible - but nuts. ;)
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    edited March 2012
    I still don't think you can rack up those miles w/ a "delivery and pickup" job b/c most of the time you need to stop and wait for people to deliver the stuff. Plus, you don't drive faster than 40-50 miles/ hours for this job.
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    edited March 2012
    Yes, it's possible but I'm thinking about a real job here unless you're Jason Statham from the Transporter. ;)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I'm just not that willing to say something is impossible and I'm sure not that willing to say someone is lying because I don't know their personal situation. There are a lot of jobs in the world and there could be some that require this type of driving. If you don't think it's possible that's fine. I see medical delivery drivers around the Chicago area that visit clinics all over the 70 miles long metro area picking up stuff and they must rack up a ton of miles every day especially when you consider the number of hours they are driving. Sometimes they have a territory from Gary, IN to Milwaukee,
    WI with all the Chicago area inbetween. During the middle of the day the expressways are going at 70-80 mph all over the Chicago area so your speed estimates might be an average...not a high. But 40mph average for 10-12 hours would easily rack up 400 miles per day.

    These people are not waiting much as they go in, pick up a box and sign and they are on their way. I also know limo drivers that make 5 or 6 roundtrips from the far suburbs to O'hare airport everyday. Thats 80 miles roundtrip in a lot of cases. Do the math...that's could be 500 a day and if they work 6 days a week like many do that's 3000 a wk or 12000 a month. Alot more than the OP is doing. To me it's obvious he is not talking about a commute to work but is using his vehicle for work.
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    edited March 2012
    Yes, it’s possible when you start stretching the truth…working 10-12 hours/day, everyone is living on the highway, there’s no traffic and we can drive 70-80 mph all the time, etc.

    I’ve been taking courses in another state for the past year. I need to travel about 53 miles each way. Yes, I can put 70-75 mph at 2PM but I still need to spend about an hour to travel 53 miles…why?...it takes me about 10 minutes to travel 2 miles from my house to the highway. I need to spend about the same amount of time from the highway to the university. I need to spend at least 90 minutes if I decide to leave at 3:30PM.

    Yes, a person might be able put about 400 miles in 8 hours (50 miles avg though out the day around town) if they don’t need to find a parking space, get out from the car, deliver/pick up stuff or go to the restroom.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited March 2012
    So you like to call people liars or stretching the truth as you put it. Look, you don't know what the guy does for a living, how many hours a day he works, how far he has to go but you're very quick to call him a liar and say I'm stretching the truth when I try to explain that it could be done. There are extremes to everything. Maybe in your perfect world people don't work over 8 hours a day and only have to make one trip a day and spend half the day in the bathroom and take two hour lunches. These delivery people double park or are in suburban clinic locations that have plenty of parking so they don't spend a lot of time on it. Maybe he works 7 days a week, I don't know and neither do you. So why do you have such a problem with it.

    Don't know why you are so antagonistic but you really need to walk in others shoes before you say they are full of it.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    scared myself today. Was at the toyota dealer today, and they had a loaded Camry SE on the floor. I really liked it. Scared me a lot! Loved the seats (leather/microsuede mix). Very comfy, and loaded all up. Not cheap ($28,700) but it had nav, and everything else they cold throw on it.

    If I was actually in the market for a sedan like this, it would get a look.

    hard to ignore the 25/35 MPG ratings too!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    You guys want to hear something about insane miles driven? A guy I know is an over-the-road truck driver. He averages 3,000 miles a week! He is only home 3 nights a month!

    His company pays him $0.45/mile (they own the rigs) and of course cover all fuel, maintenance, etc. Most of the tractors have duel 150 gallon tanks for a 300 gallon total capacity and with diesel fuel at $4.00/gallon? Fill-ups run $800! He never drives with less than a 1/4 tank (which is 75 gallons remaining!).

    Anyway, he averages 7 mpg depending on load and geography and drives 150,000 miles a year. 80,000 miles a year in a car is very possible for a traveling salesperson over a very large region like the western United States.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    that's a tough way to make less than 70K a year.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    edited March 2012
    80,000 miles a year in a car is very possible for a traveling salesperson over a very large region like the western United States.

    This person claimed he put 80k miles in 8 months on his new Sonata. :shades:

    I agree that truck drivers can put that many miles b/c they can haul a lot of stuff in there and they don't stop to deliver stuff every 5 or 10 miles.

    However, for a small car? How much stuff can you put in there? He must be carrying something valuable that they reimburse him w/ top dollars. Anyways, I hope his salary is high enough to cover the driving, gas, depreciation, insurance, etc.

    I used to have a neighbor who has a small truck (like UPS truck) to deliver stuff for Staples's. They pay him about $150/day (base on his truck size). If I remember correctly he puts about 120-140 miles/day (about 80 miles to travel to the warehouse). He left 5AM and didn't get back home till 6-7PM.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    How about instead of insinuating that another member is lying, we simply ask him (politely) how in the heck he put that many miles on his vehicle?
    It could be a typo.
    There could be a plausible explanation.

    A very minor amount of research would have shown you that it's the latter. You can see his previous 5 posts. In November, he states that he had 52,000 miles on his 2011 Sonata. In the same post, he states "I now drive for a living."

    If I were a new member, thinking about posting a question here, and I saw this exchange, I'd back out and never return.

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  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    1. Toyota Camry 105,405 37.2
    2. Nissan Altima 96,360 38.5
    3. Ford Fusion 63,949 -1.7
    4. Honda Accord 61,132 -7.6
    5. Chevrolet Malibu 58,550 20.1
    6. Hyundai Sonata 55,195 6.4

    Here are the top six so far this year. Couple of shocks:

    The Accord is a distant 4th, when it used to be #2 as recently as 2009.

    The Altima is now getting close to Camry.

    Sonata can't sell much more than they are now because their factory is maxed out.

    Question: will all news entries from Honda, Ford, and Nissan alter anything here....
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited April 2012
    I think it's very possible the all-new Altima, with exceptional fuel economy and updated telematics and styling, will overtake the boring Camry. The Altima has a reputation for reliability also, but is much more interesting to drive and look at. And has better fuel economy than the non-hybrid Camry. Altima is probably grabbing lots of sales now based on close-out pricing and fleet sales--I see a LOT of them on rental lots (which is fine with me, as they make a nice rental).

    Similarly, I expect the new Fusion to leap up in sales, maybe also overtake Camry, once it's available in volume. It's a fantastic looking car, should drive much better than the Camry if Ford didn't ruin its ride/handling balance, and also should get excellent fuel economy.

    We'll have to see on the new, smaller Accord, but sales should perk up there also if Honda did their homework. The new Altima and Fusion will be tough competitors, though.

    Malibu is really pricey now with only the mild hybrid available, and C/D was very unkind on that car--ranked it below all the new mid-sized sedans including the Camry (2nd worst in the group). Maybe the new Malibu with regular gas engines and lower price will fare better.

    Another interesting thing about these numbers is that two of the better mid-sized cars--Passat and Optima--didn't even make this list. Although sales of both are reportedly surging. And the Mazda6 is no slouch, but four years is a long time in this competitive market. Also it needs better fuel economy to be competitive.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited April 2012
    I would doubt that anybody will overtake Camry as I think Toyota will do enough discounting and rebating to keep it in the lead but it will probably be close. The others will all move up closer but the ranking among the top four will probably stay the same. I'm talking for the entire year of 2012. A three month period can be the result of a lot of short term things. I don't believe the new Accord is going to be any game changer from what I've seen of it. In fact, it could drift even further behind.

    The only change in the ranking IMO is that it's possible Sonata will overtake both the Malibu and the Accord by the end of 2012. And even though I don't think it will happen there is a chance that Altima could overtake Camry by years end if Toyota isn't very aggressive with it's marketing. The new Altima is very interesting with the high mpg and little bump in HP/Torque.
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