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One other note: I had to buy a re-built gauge cluster, and it was then that I saw the car's biggest flaw.
There was a simple, plug in chip that contained the ODO. Yep, you could buy a new chip for $20, and it would start at ZERO. :confuse: So, buyer beware on vintage digi-dash GM cars.
Inside Line:
"So it drives well, looks fantastic and returns significantly better fuel economy while being faster. So what's the rub?
In short: the interior. After Mazda spent serious dollars on the exterior and the powertrain, there wasn't much left for the interior. At least that's our initial impression....these features and the quality of them are more in line with the outgoing Toyota Camry and Honda Accord than a sedan that's trying to blur the lines between family car and luxury car.
This problem isn't new to Mazda. The Mazda 2, Mazda 3 and Mazda CX-5 all lag behind the competition in terms of interior styling and perceived quality. It wasn't a deal breaker to the engineers at Mazda. Is it for you?
...Unfortunately, the swoopy body results in a lower car with less headroom front and rear than its competitors."
As the former co-owner of a 2004 Mazda 6 Sportwagon and the owner of a 2003 Mazda Protege', I can tell you guys there were some quality issues.
My wife's Mazda 6 was plagued with HVAC problems. The A/C seemed to break every time hot weather arrived. Also, it had bent rims, tire blow-outs, and brake rotor problems. It seemed like it shook and shimmied the whole time we owned it.
My Protege' LX had no ABS, and was shod in summer tires. I hydroplaned at 60 mph in light drizzle, and crashed into a wall on 95. Totaled. I bought it new. Being a modern, well optioned car; it never even occurred to me that it had no ABS. I ASSUMED that it did.
I have seen the inside of the new CX-5 in person. It looks great inside and out. However, I have been lamenting the lack of horsepower (again).
The irony is that I think Ford's Eco-Boost 1.6 would be perfect for the CX-5, and the Mazda 3. It also would be great as the Eco-option in the new Mazda 6. It is too bad Mazda and Ford divorced some years ago.
I get sick of seeing Mazda's Zoom-Zoom ad's with cars that take 9.5 seconds to reach 60. Sounds more like Yawn-Yawn. :P
Your wife A/C was a definately problem though, but was it wide spread throughout the line up or just an isolated problem with her car?
As for you Protege not having ABS that was not uncommon even in 2003, the Corrola and Civic as I recall did not have standard ABS in all models until somewhere around 2007 or so ( may be wrong on this though, but know it was a fair late occurrence).. The problem in your case sounds like it wasn't the lack of ABS, but poor quality tires, which is the fault of the car manufactured for picking them, but is not a problem with the car itself ( though it can cause a problem with the car itself as occurred to you). Unfortunately OEM tires are generally quite bad as they are made to a price point, and even tires with a good name brand are not the same as what you can buy aftermarket. They are generally lower quality and will not last as long or grip as well as the aftermarket versions. Unfortunately for you your tires were prone to hydro planing as you found out the hard way. How old was the car when this happened and how worn were the tires, this is something you didn't mention, just blamed the manufacturer for it, but if the tires were fairly worn this would also increa the likelyhood of hydro planing ( please note not trying to shift blame or anything, just want clarity on what happened, )
The outgoing Mazda6's interior is not too bad either. Interesting that Inside Line compared the new 6's interior to the previous Accord's. I thought the old Accord's interior quality was just fine--it was the design (too many small buttons) that I didn't like.
Toyota has proven that you can sell a lot of mid-sized cars with a low-rent interior. But Mazda doesn't have Toyota's customer base or dealer network.
Mazda does have time to make small tweaks to the interior before the US debut. Maybe they will do that, based on early reviews and the strong competition they face. That will include, I expect, an updated Sonata within the next few months--will be 3 years this January when the current Sonata debuted, and Hyundai tends to do mid-gen refreshes every 3 years or so.
I don't see anything from the pictures that indicate poor quality in the dash material....how could I really as you really have to see it in person and touch the controls etc to feel quality IMO. But design wise, I much prefer it to the spaceship designs of Hyundai and Ford.
By the way, regarding Camry, I think the interior in the new models are substantially better than the previous gen. This is just from sitting in them at the auto show but the difference is substantial. So all that assume the Camry interior is still cheap based on what they see in pictures should at least touch and feel before assuming that they are still subpar. Not a big fan but I think some people would bash Camry if they substituted a Mercedes interior. These same people would still say it has a "cheap" interior.
Funny~~!!
But actually the next gen Mazda6 should be competitive 0-60, what with a 2.5 engine and a loss of something like 200 pounds. It should be pretty darn quick for a 4 cylinder. Did they have acceleration numbers in that test? I forget.
Well, TPMS took over my trip computer and outside temp area on my gauge cluster so it could continue to warn me all the way in to work.
I stopped at the Shell that had a cool LED air pump and both front tires read 26 PSI. So, I believe that the sudden change in air temperature in my area may have been the cause of the low tire pressure(s). The light and warning are now off. I can't help but wonder though how long my front tires have been low, and how it has affected my fuel economy.
Both front tires now have 36 PSI, and (WOW!) what a difference in steering feel.
So, my goal this morning is to research my TPMS system and see exactly how low (or high) the pressure has to be in order for the system to issue a warning.
Will get back to you guys on this.
This plus the fact that I have complained of advanced tire wear on another site (Optima forums)
has taught me a lesson. Trust my eyes, not the cars computer.
It's not intended to warn you until it's dangerously low. I think you should be able to set a higher warning point but it's not a substitute for checking your tire pressure regularly.
Honestly, I prefer it the way it is. I have always checked my tire pressures every month or so. I certainly wouldn't want the TPM light going off every time there was a 2lb pressure drop.
OTOH, the TPM has saved me a few times from driving with a dangerously low tire due to a puncture.
I assumed all cars now would have gone to that style TPMS, but I guess not!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I would love to know what the actual pressures are via the dash display, but alas I ask too much of my Optima.
Today; I got in to go to work and there was no warning, so I think it was the sudden temperature drop from high's in the 80's to mid 40's at night.
problem solved.
It's a great time to shop for a mid-sized car. Everything has recently been renewed, or will be shortly. None of them are duds, with the possible exception of the Chrysler 200, which should be entirely new in 2014.
I like the Fusion a lot, but its looks have been over-hyped. Yes, the grill has Aston overtones, but the rest of the car is right within the current styling themes for intermediates. It is less flashy than the Sonata and the Optima, but takes on more of a world style than Malibu--a car that looks like a proper Chevrolet. the new Fusion is another of Ford's products where the styling makes it look smaller in the metal than it actually is, even though it is actually larger than the previous Fusion. The 1.6 Ecoboost will probably meet the needs of most people, and is more of a competitive "base" engine than the 2.5.
The new Mazda6 will be the best looking of all of them. The Accord certainly looks better than it did, and is now quieter too. The Altima looks more expensive than it is. The Camry is probably one of the least appealing of the lot, given its nothing interior styling and trim, and the un-integrated front and rear styling. Camry sells on reputation, deserved or not. It's 4 cylinder engine is hardly state of the art. Creative advertising could really shake things up for any of the new entries.
The Chrysler 200 is the oldest platform in the midsize market. Yes, the 3.6 Pentastar engine added some much needed grunt and allowed the 200 to be removed from life support, but in the end.....the 200 is outdated. It is nothing more than a gussied up Sebring.
The Fusion looks great, and I suspect it will take a large chunk of sales away from other mid-size offerings. My Korean friends are still sticking it to Toyota, and I can't believe the low quality looking cockpit materials on the Camry. Why could they not have added just a little more ES/GS 350 dash materials to the interior? Whyyyyyy? Also, the Toyota engine offerings are 25 HP short than some of it's competitors. So is it's warranty.
I hate to beat this horse again, but my 2012 Optima EX (Spicy Red) blows them all away except the Passat. However, the Passat is $10k more!!! That is $1,000,000,000,000,000.012 more than my car. (my car's sticker was $24,360. After negotiation it was dropped to 20,260)
So, who has the combination of style, features, and quality as my Optima EX 2.4?
Please....lets talk about it. I think my deal was pretty much unbeatable. So was the warranty. :shades:
I actually don't care for the Sonata styling (overdone) but did like the Kia. The Accord seems to be a vast improvement over the last generation (which I did not care for). The Camry has plusses, the Fusion looks interesting, the passat and Altima are strong options. Even the malibu is light years ahead of the old one. The Legacy is a great option too.
Tough class to be playing in, but good for the consumer.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
However, with the Kia; even the base model LX Optima has alloys (16's), dual exhaust, fog lights, etc. It looks just as good as any other Optima to the casual eye. (but no 17' alloys, dual zone climate control, manumatic sport shift, HID headlights, LED brake lights, leather, etc etc).
I have started to look at Camry's with the attitude of "why would I WANT to buy this car? Why? The interior is drab, the center stack looks like Emerson and Soundesign had a baby. I just cant stand them for some reason. They are relatively good looking, but all the Camry's I see on the road around here are of the hubcap and beige paint variety. Great car to commit a crime in. "Well, I think it was a tan Toyota something-or-other officer".
I am gonna go watch "The Walking Dead". And while I am thinking about it, why aren't they all driving Camry's? No way I am staking my life on a 82 Suburban!!!
It was totally gorgeous in Titanium trim. It is going to be a home run hit, if they price it right for a good overall value. Well, I did some research, and it would cost around 27k to get all of the features that my Optima EX has. So, my car stickered $4,000 less BEFORE haggling down to $20,500. (in all fairness I bought my car on the last day of 2011..so the dealer just wanted to move another unit...so I got a great deal) Now, if the pricing was really close, I would have a very difficult decision on my hands.
So, it comes down to affordability and personal preference on style. I would not mind being seen in a new Fusion at all, and I am sure that many buyers will feel the same way.
My hat's off to Ford. If anyone here has test driven one please post your experience.
-Chris
2012 Suzuki Kizashi
For now I'll just have to poach looks at them from here or there whilst driving around the Spokane-Coeur d' Alene area, eh?
I'm gonna get one one day! That blows the Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu, Toyota Camry, even my beloved Mitsubishi's Galant outta the water. Sheesh Mitsubishi, do ya think it's time ta update your Galant? Or is the Galant toast? I think Mitsubishi decided to put the kiebash on the Galant because of poor sales but even the outgoing Galant blows the Toyota Camry cleanly out of the water.
This is what I'm talking about
This almost looks grey ta me but I think it's that gorgeous silver I've been talkin' about. I don't see how you could want any other car on the planet besides the Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. Simply gorgeous, great running, great performing car automotive dudes and dudettes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I recently saw one in a beautiful bright, deep blue color and was very impressed with it's looks, materials in the interior, and I am sure it drives fantastic.
The numbers look good on the 1.6 engine...average power (178) and best torque in the comparo (184), but it is only available in one lump at a certain RPM. The transmission has to work hard to keep it on boost...and that kills engines over time.
There is efficient and there is under-powered...a fine line to walk. I know MPG sells, and I know the EPA and CAFE requirements are tight...but there is NO WAY I would buy a 1.6 in a 3500 pound car. That's just me. :shades:
But the main reason I wouldn't touch a Kizashi is a very very small dealer network, and the real risk that Suzuki won't be selling cars in the USA much longer.
1) 2013 Accord
2) 2013 Fusion
3) 2013 Altima
4) 2013 Passat.
The Fusion, Accord, Passat, and the Altima in the test are all the newest model mid-size sedan's on the USA market.
My 2012 Optima EX was the best value I could have ever hoped for. I have three elementary school-aged girls and bought the nicest car I could afford, and it has surpassed ALL of my expectations.
I actually detailed the outgoing 2010 Accord EX for a neighbor yesterday, with similar options as my Optima. I immediately noticed the hard black and grey plastics everywhere, no real aluminum or tasteful wood grain trim. The shift knob looked like it came out of a "94 Grand Am.
It's black leather seat's however were FAR better than mine, and it drove about the same. The exterior was ok, but no fog lights or dual exhaust with the Accords 2.4, and it was just an older design. I can't wait to drive the new "13.
Kind regards,
Chris
Interesting in the comparo was the use of the 1.6. The that is Ford's step-up engine from the 2.5 liter. All the other cars seemed to be fielded with their base engines. I suspect the Fusion may not have come in as high as second if the 2.5 model had been tested.
Oops...I think I was referencing another test in Motor Trend, where the Passat came in first, then Accord, then Fusion, then Altima, followed by Camry and Malibu.
We will just have to see if the 1.6 holds up in real use. I very, very much like the Fusion. I wanted my favorite magazine to test the 2.0 in a comparo.
It is more expensive because it the engine is made in England and is shipped here for installation in Dearborn, Michigan.
The 2.5 is assembled in Mexico. Not sure where the 2.0 is built.
There are no bad cars in this segment. Just varying degrees of good. The new Accord and Fusion appear to be just slightly above the rest overall but individually you could make a good case for any of them. Yes - even the Camry.
I think Fusion will still offer the most powertrain options with 1.6, 1.6 autostart/stop, 1.6 manual, 2.0, 2.0 AWD, 2.0 Hybrid and 2.0 PIH.
I'm likely ordering a 2013 Fusion Hybrid Titanium. 47 mpg is hard to pass up.
I have had so many problems with cars in the past...stranded on the road in many, that I am gun shy of anything that is limited production, turbocharged, or GT versions. My 87 Z24 with unrepairable cracked transmission and alternators that died monthly. 1994 - Yamaha engine melted down in my SHO. 96 Passat TDI that had to be shut off and on every 5 miles to get the turbo to work.
All sales people had said things like "bullet proof" and "will never leave you stranded". All did. So, now I buy cars more likely to make it 150k without a major problem, and with the most available and cheapest parts. All the while still trying to buy something that isn't a bread-box on wheels.
I understand why millions buy Corolla's and Camry's. They are a safe bet for reliability and are serene places to sit and drive. I am amused the adding an "S" on the back of everything increases sales. I am also amused that every 75% of Toyota Corolla's I see on the road (the ones with the "S" usually) are missing at least one hubcap. Does the S stand for stolen?
No. With me it seems the S stands for sub-standard, stranded, sucker, and stupid.
I am still holding out that I can drive a nice looking car that isn't a Camry or Accord or a Corolla out of fear of breakdowns.
However, the EX on the back of my Kia may yet be EX-ploded or EX-pensive to repair. I hope not. Not this time.
I do a lot of research now before I buy now. The rest is how I treat the car, and that the welding robot wasn't off-line when my car sailed down the assembly line. But it doesn't have an S....so there is hope.
-C
There has never been a time when the mid-size car buyer had so many excellent choices. Buy what you like, don't drive the piss out of it all the time, do the routine maintenance suggested, and any of these cars will give you more satisfactory service than you have had with your previous rides.
It is a blast to drive, and without jamming my foot to the floor or coming near redline. I have no problem with modern.
Lastly In the Car & Driver comparo, the Fusion BROKE DOWN. It was flashing warning lights....of the check engine sort. They also said the tranny was very busy, trying desperately to keep on boost.
(The evil empire music played as Darth Vader walks into the control room of his gigantic ship's bridge/CIC. (or when Vader enter's any scene where evil is to be done). lmao.
I imagine the same music runs in customers heads as they are marched into the finance department with not so perfect credit. "Sir, the force may be with you, but not with your credit. ...and your trade is an X-wing what? It says here o your car fax report that it was crashed in a swamp and has some water damage. and because of that, all you have is a salvage title Luke.
Well, I can put you in a Versa! How about that? lol.
Welcome also!
I forgot the Max had a CVT. I need to drive a CVT in a nice car like the MAX so I can throw off the chains of oppression as I stop thinking of a Subaru Justy every time I hear "CVT".
The switch must be something to get used to. I like the Max. Ever since they have made it it was the original (Japanese) 4DSC. Back in 96 190 HP was hot stuff and then the 2000 with 222 HP was on tap for delivery. Great addition to the genuine sport sedan.
Car and Driver said it looks like a Camry that was stung by bees. Lol.
Suzuki Kizashi...
.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The mid-size sedan is THE most difficult car to build for the masses. It has to be all things to all people...and Suzuki seems to not want to play that game.
The 2014 Mazda6, out in January, looks to be a winner.
A) It needed updating badly. (boring)
Their heart isn't in it. (boring)
C) They nibbled some market share from the big boys as an alternative too many. (boring)
D) Didn't Suzuki make crappy little 4x4's (Samurai) that enjoyed a cult following? Why don't they do that again?
1996 Accord: My first car. Cramped for my 6'4" frame, and not particularly peppy (130hp) but it had a personality. I miss that car.
2006 Accord: Great to drive. Had some road noise, felt more powerful than it was.
Currently have a 2009 Sonata GLS V6: Quiet, smooth riding, lots of power with good MPG (averaging 29-30mpg on my highway commute), absolutely no fun to drive around a bend.
The 2013 Accord was still disapppointingly noisy compared to my quiet Hyundai. I'm not sure I could go back to that level of road noise every day after commuting 100 miles a day in my quiet coffin of a car, the Sonata. However, the engine felt good under my foot, but made a noise that was not pleasant like previous Honda fours. Part of DI, I suppose.
The CVT didn't feel that different from an automatic. It had obvious "shift" points. When I gunned it to merge, it had definite "shifts" in ratio. Frankly, I liked the feel of the 2012 Altima I drove, and how it smoothly ramped up the revs, and dropped them back. The Accord didn't feel as "rubber-bandy" I suppose, but it wasn't nearly as smooth as the Altima was, either. Overall, not a deal maker or breaker for me. It was good enough.
The interior had loads of space. My Sonata is a "Large Car" by EPA standards, with a moonroof, and the Accord felt at least as spacious. No problems there. My seat in my Hyundai offered more travel/front legroom for me, but not by much. The Honda offered comfy seating and rear vents, a nice touch.
In the end, these were the items I focused on; powertrain, space, and noise levels. While the Honda was definitely more spry than my current Sonata, nothing about it made me pine for a new car right now. I'm content with what I have (and no car payment).
All mine.
Hurry...catch a glimpse of it before it becomes a little red X
Look at that car, gentlemen. Simply the coolest midsize car on the market. And it is the smallest midsize car as well. This car looks mah-vel-ous in silver. Best color for the Kizashi.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick