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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • The Mexican built cars were recalled over dispute of what "Optional Package order" means....

    Ford insists that it does not mean to pack the car with cocaine.

    LMAOOOOOOO
  • temj12temj12 Member Posts: 450
    I live close to the Flat Rock plant. They are building a lot of additional facilities there. When finished, they will continue the Mustang build and add the Fusion and Lincoln MKS. I will try to find out about vehicles being sent there to have parts added. I am beginning to see some Fusions here. On the Titanium, the engine is made in Spain. I was not crazy about that idea.
  • sdcal2sdcal2 Member Posts: 12
    Interested to just how many show up at Flat Rock. Here is the weird part about this launch. It's coming on two months now. I live in the L.A. area and commute every day to to San Diego and drive my territory then back to L.A. About 300 miles per day. I have never seen one new Fusion and yes I've been looking. I have seen what feels like 10,000 new 2012 models. How is it that what Ford believes will be their biggest sale vehicle and Camery killer is nowhere to be found? 99% of the 2012 are gone off the lots near me. What are they selling???
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's a controlled launch just like all other Ford launches. The vehicles will trickle in for the next few weeks.
  • sdcal2sdcal2 Member Posts: 12
    Okay now you're just reaching. This is a non exitance launch. After the other two vehicles were launched they were everywhere and on TV. Go to the Ford web site and no picture proudly displayed like the Focus and Fusion. Nothing Nothing Nothing
  • b25nutb25nut Member Posts: 202
    I got a call from my dealer in the San Fernando Valley Wednesday and I was able to pick up my Fusion Hybrid yesterday. Everyone on this board is going to be very happy when you get your vehicle. When I pulled into work this morning, the first question was "Is that a BMW?". In my opinion, any concerns expressed in the reviews are non-issues. Brakes are great, trunk room is very good, no problem with front end clearance, etc. The Sync and MyFord Touch are easy to use. Any feature that is different (like the turn indicator) is easily adapted to. I had to drive 205 miles to get the car, so I had that amount of time with my Fusion on the drive home last night. I drove it aggressively after the first 30 miles and was at 73 mph most of the time, even up long, steep grades (I don't use speed control). This was hard on the mpg: I only got 32 mpg for the trip. This was disappointing, but the car only had three miles on it and I'm sure needs some breaking in. It appears the green leaves don't like speeds over 65 mph.
    The car is very quiet, even when the engine was working hard going up steep grades. Regular acceleration is good, not great, but acceleration at higher speeds is very good. The key takes some getting used to. It is narrow and knowing the right orientation for inserting it doesn't come naturally. The windshield wipers are hinged at the outer edges of the windshield and keep it entirely clear except for the area behind the rearview mirror. Their offset motion is surprising at first.
    Mine is White Platinum with a Dune leather interior (if only black was available I wouldn't have bought it), with the Luxury and Technology package. I also got the Moonroof and the Luxury wheels. I highly recommend all these options, especially the wheels. My only real complaint now is I think the Owner's Manual is poorly done. It has very few pictures and seems to have been written by Microsoft with an almost useless index.
    I placed my order with my closest dealer back in September. They didn't even give me a build date until this past Wednesday. 12 days ago, the web site of the dealer in Woodland Hills listed that they had the exact same car (I feel extremely lucky for that) arriving last week. They had to hold it (for a reason nobody seems to know) until yesterday before I could drive it home.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I'm not reaching - this is how Ford has launched vehicles for the last several years. There was a problem with one of the parts that has delayed some deliveries. Vehicles are being delivered as noted above.
  • I remember a similar launch with the new Chevy Camaro. Almost everyone saw it in '07 Transformers movie.

    However, It took 3 more years before they were on the road. Now they are quite common again.

    So, again I believe that a cautious launch means extra $ margin's for the dealer and Ford, and if there IS a quality/TSB issue then a fix can be implemented before 2.5 million are on the road, like what happened to Toyota a year ago with a"unintentional acceleration" nonsense.

    A similar accusation was levied against the 85-88 Audi 5000. It almost killed Audi....AND, I remember picking up an '87 5000 S for $1000 (to flip it). I was lucky to have only lost $50 on it.
    It was a complete pile in every way.

    Once again I have seen zero Fusions today.
  • No Fusion sighted. Zero (0) in DC. Zero (0) in Arlington.

    Had errands to run. Lots of Focusssss's No Fusion's
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    No Fusion sighted. Zero (0) in DC. Zero (0) in Arlington.

    Had errands to run. Lots of Focusssss's No Fusion's


    Foci? :)

    I saw my first Fusion on Sunday (I live in Birmingham, AL). It was apple red, Titanium.

    I was, however, VERY unhappy that the Ford dealers in my area who put on the Birmingham International Auto Show this weekend left their Fusions locked. I was there to try on cars (I'm 6'5", so it's a true try-on!) to replace my 09 Sonata eventually, but Ford may have lost business with that lame move. I sat in an Optima, liked it. Sat in a '13 Sonata, didn't like it (like sitting in a bucket; hard to see out of). I've driven an Accord, also like it for it's large screen, easy sightlines, and CVT + Paddle Shift Combo on the sport. I wanted to like the '13 Altima more than I did when I sat in it, but haven't driven it yet. One car whose interior I liked a LOT (which surprised me) was the Malibu LTZ 2.0T. Wouldn't buy a Chevy though; still too many quality concerns.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Did they have an excuse as to why the Fusions were locked up? Usually, at auto shows, the only reason is that they aren't for sale yet and could be slightly "pre production" units or concepts.
  • seolbroseolbro Member Posts: 19
    I saw a Fusion on Saturday, just driving down the highway. Looks better in pictures than in the flesh.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited November 2012
    quote at the bottom of one of the pics from autoblog..
    "2013 Ford Fusion: A driver-centric cockpit with a forward canted centerstack and high center console provide visual design cues of Fusion's competence and poise on the road."

    Really?? Who writes this utter.... ahhh..stuff??
    A high center console provide visual design cues of a car's competence? who at Ford approved this and if no one did, why aren't they suing for....well..idiotic remarks.

    I think the hood is too busy. I get what they were trying to do, but end result is a fail, IMO.
    All in all though, it is a fairly handsome effort.

    I chuckled to myself when I read thegraduate became enticed by the unlocked Optima..that'll teach 'em (Ford).

    Dear FMC, it's only a Fusion...sheesh..If you're going to lock it, then hang a sign saying why.
  • b25nutb25nut Member Posts: 202
    Make sure when you try the Fusion on for size that the Easy Entry & Exit Function is activated. It makes getting in and out of the car much easier for anyone 6' or more by automatically moving the seat to the full back position.
    My trip yesterday of over 400 miles resulted in an average 34.4 mpg with speeds of 70-75 mph 80% of the time. This included going up "Grapevine Hill".
  • sdcal2sdcal2 Member Posts: 12
    I do think as others have posted it a temporary problem that has been corrected. I think my order is in the group of vehicles that "had a Problem" and I got screwed with delivery. If someone can order in September and has their vehicle... I got screwed. The car is for my daughter and I kind of forced the car on her and now regret buying Ford. For reasons I do not have the time to explain it would cost me a lot to change directions and buy something different. Just feels like one more time where some company says thank you very much now bend over and don't complain. Moo moooo!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    Drove a lot yesterday. Zero Fusions. You know, I remember the 2005 Mustang introduction and being really, really excited about it's retro design. Now I view the old 4.0 6 cyl. models as airport rentals. We are going to get used to the Fusion real quick I bet, especially the basic I-don't-need rims, dual exhaust, or fog-lights models.

    On the news this morning I was informed that there is a new Prius recall. I am curious as to how Ford's C-Max is going to do competing against it.

    However, this isn't the hybrid thread so I am done now b-4 someone gets :mad:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Any time you order a vehicle before or within the first month or two of a new model introduction you have to expect potential delays. Ford has a very specific process to ensure that they don't ship out defective vehicles so some get held longer than others. They try to minimize the impact on retail (sold) orders but sometimes unexpected problems crop up due to machinery or (usually) parts problems from their suppliers.

    One guy had his already built Fusion pulled off the line for crash testing by NHTSA, something Ford has no control over. They did submit a new order for him with emergency priority.

    If you don't want delays, wait 6 months to order.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    I run my own business part time to supplement income (3 kids ain't cheap).

    If I don't keep up with orders and deadlines I am out of business. I show up to appointments early and stay late. These are the principles that make a person, business, and government successful and respected.

    I know that building an Automobile these days is like assembling a Lunar Module, but you would think that people who design these things have quality assurance people(who work on deadline's) testing people (who work on deadlines) and government liaison's (who work on deadlines). I think big business in America has partially turned away from the principles that made our country great,

    If I ordered a car, and had to wait 2 months to be delivered, only to be told it will be two more months I would cancel my order. Period. I would have signed an agreement with the dealer that if they can't deliver then my money goes away and I am driving off a competitors lot in a new car.

    There were plenty of Sonata's and Optima's in 2011. Brand new model. The Largest recall was left front wheel strut components caused vehicle to pull to the left. 41,000 Sonata's recalled, 16,000 Optima's. (I bought a 2012, which had fixed the problem permanently). It took an hour to buy one and I was on my way home....car in hand. :P

    12,000 miles later and there have been zero problems with my car. None. As a matter of fact, very few had to wait for their Korean car. Do we want to be a whole subsidiary of Asia? Keep it up America, and that is what we have to look forward to.

    Hope you are listening Ford, as you are the last and only US manufacturer that I WOULD still buy a car from.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    How many people actually place a factory order for a Sonata or Optima? These types of delays happen all the time with other mfrs you just don't hear about them. Also in other cases the mfrs would simply ship out defective vehicles and fix them later. Ford chooses to bite the bullet and fix them first. So that causes some delays and not a lot of information. I prefer that scenario to them shipping out defective products.

    If Ford didn't allow buyers to pre-order before production begins then everyone would be upset that they have to wait. If they do and have problems then everyone is upset, even though Ford never guarantees any delivery dates on any special order.

    This will be a blip in the overall picture once production is humming.
  • b25nutb25nut Member Posts: 202
    I ordered mine in September but that is not the Fusion I am driving. If I had waited for that one, I wouldn't have seen it until after Dec. 16. I lucked out and found a dealer that had ordered the exact same car in their initial order to Ford for their Fusions.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited November 2012
    Not a spammer. I read this site everyday and only reply when something strikes me. The Kia Optima is built in West Point, Georgia. As of today, Georgia remains part of the US.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Make sure when you try the Fusion on for size that the Easy Entry & Exit Function is activated. It makes getting in and out of the car much easier for anyone 6' or more by automatically moving the seat to the full back position.

    I've never driven a car without the seat all the way back in the first place. Accords, Santa Fe, Odyssey, Corolla, Sonata, Verano, Camry, Suburban and even an Excursion... the seat is always at the back of the track. :)
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    Me too! I read these forums daily but only post occasionally.

    Yes, Georgia is still part of the U.S. Their petition to secede has not yet been approved. ;)
  • Thanks Wayne21. My car was built at the Westpoint, GA plant.

    People don't have to order Sonata's and Optima's because they are affordable mid-size sedans and not an Aston Martin Vanquish or a Rolls.

    Why would I order a Ford Fusion and wait 6 mo's for it?

    I owned 94 SHO , so I like Ford just fine.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What does cost have to do with ordering? The delays will be over with in a month or two and there won't be any more delays for the next 5 or 6 years. Much ado about nothing.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    The delays will be over with in a month or two and there won't be any more delays for the next 5 or 6 years. Much ado about nothing.

    Agreed...being 1st on the block with the "latest" always includes a down-side.

    I'm willing to bet there will be initial quality/reliability problems as well...usually is.

    If you want to be the first with an iPhone you have to wait in long lines...this doesn't take away from it's excellence; it just indicates what you're willing to go through to be the first.

    Not to diminish anybody's disappointment...I'd be PO'd if my order were delayed, especially when I'm eagerly anticipating it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Back in September they shipped the stamping dies for the left and right body sides to Arizona by truck and rented a huge aircraft to fly them back to Detroit to be fixed, then flown back to Arizona and back to Hermosillo by truck. That's why they have this batch and hold inspection process - to find problems before they show up at the dealer.

    Once fixed these problems should not reoccur.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    '...then flown back to Arizona ...'
    Wow - THAT sounds expensive.
    - Ray
    Stamping dies that size must be very heavy.......
    2022 X3 M40i
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It required a Hercules transport plane and I think there were 2 complete dies - top and bottom left and right sides so I imagine they were REALLY heavy. Sounds like they had them fixed and back in service within a week or so which is really fast considering.

    As someone else said - you don't always want to see inside the sausage factory.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    12,000 miles later and there have been zero problems with my car. None. As a matter of fact, very few had to wait for their Korean car. Do we want to be a whole subsidiary of Asia? Keep it up America, and that is what we have to look forward to.
    Hope you are listening Ford, as you are the last and only US manufacturer that I WOULD still buy a car from.


    This is what I responded to. The KIAs are made in Georgia and provide a lot of work for people in that part of Georgia and nearby Alabama towns. (The sonata is built in Montgomery Alabama. I've toured that factory and it is really awesome.) For every factory employee about 12 jobs are created to support him. That is a lot of employment and money provided to a lot of local people. As for the Asians or anyone else, there is a 25 percent tax on any car imported to the US - compliments of the UAW lobbying in the 1970s because noone would buy american at that time. That is why so many of the foreign-based car companies have built factories in the US (avoiding the 25 percent import tax).... non-union as a rule so as not to have the UAW ruin them. As for buying ford, the fusion is built in Hermasillo Mexico. My brother recently purchased a new camaro - an american muscle car. The motor and transmission were made in mexico and the car was assembled in Oshawa Canada.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 25% "chicken tax" as it's known only applies to light trucks. It does not apply to mid sized sedans or cars in general. Those are built here for other reasons.
  • Nonetheless, the point is made. What constitutes an American car is subject to endless debate. To call cars built by for example Ford "American" simply because it is an American-based company does not solve it. It is not just the jobs that go to Mexico and Canada when "American" models are built there, but what about Fords built and sold in Europe, South America and Asia? Should locals there stop buying them, even though Ford provides a huge number of jobs in those countries, simply because it is a foreign company? I think not. Buy what you want and let competition improve the entire field.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2012
    I didn't mean to spark a debate on what constitutes an American car and whatnot. It's a very complicated issue. I am worried about my country. I have tried to buy American brands without being stupid about it.
    My grandfather was a foreman at the GM transmission plant outside Buffalo NY. So, my family purchased GM vehicle's. My '87 Z24 was a great looking and driving little car with a V6 stuffed in it. It was the first car I ever financed myself. (I was 19 yrs old in 1990) I loved it. Unfortunately, It broke down all the time.

    American cars have made leaps and bounds since then thankfully, and I purposely bought a USA made car.

    I like that my Optima was made in a new Georgia plant. That plant employs almost 2000 American workers. My grandfather (and father) would have been ok with that.
  • I took a look at the KMMG (Kia Motor's Manufacturing Georgia) website. There are 2500 direct manufacturing jobs, and another 7500 support jobs created since the opening of the plant in 2009.

    The first vehicle produced there was a white Sorrento. In 2010 production started on the Optima.

    In 2011 Kia produced 89,000 Optima's, which was not enough to keep up with demand. So, production was ramped up another 45,000 units this year with a target of roughly 150,000 depending on market conditions. They were smart to do that since the all knew Camry had some lukewarm reviews.

    So much for no one ordering Korean cars. :P
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  • b25nutb25nut Member Posts: 202
    I've had my Fusion Hybrid for eight days now, and I am now a former Hybrid skeptic. On my commutes to work each day (80% hwy @65-70 mph), I averaged 39.3 mpg this week. I just took the time to do a city test. Some stop and go and speeds of 30-40 mph. I went a total of 9.7 miles that included retracing my path so that climbs and descents balanced out. I am now a true believer.......53.2 mpg. When I ended the battery still had 2/3 of its charge.
    I am amazed by the brakes. You should find that you will make your smoothest stops ever. Some of the reviews had made me leery of them, but they are a non-issue.
    I narrowed down my choices for a new car in August to the Optima, Altima, Santa Fe Sport and the Fusion. I have spent $42,000+ on our last two cars and I set a limit this time of $34k. The first car that was eliminated was the Optima. I think it has the second best looks, but equipped the way I wanted it was $36k, and I didn't like the interior color options. I drove both the Altima and the Santa Fe Sport and they were both impressive, with the Altima $1,800 under my limit. Then I read a review that really hit a nerve. It said that if you choose the Altima, you are telling the world you have given up. Nissan makes great cars, but with the styling of many of their other models, I'm concerned about their future. The high rev sound of the engine during acceleration on the freeway also put me off.
    The Hyundai ended up in second place since it looks nice and I wouldn't have been giving up much cargo carrying capacity. The 33 mpg hwy was a concern, but it was acceptable if the Fusion ended up being a dud.
    The reviews sold me on the Fusion. It also gave me the exterior and interior colors I wanted. I ordered my Fusion Hybrid in September before even seeing a Fusion in person. I caught a lot of flak from my wife for doing that, but she's glad I did now. Getting the Hybrid cost me an extra $3,100 compared to the 1.6 SE, but I feel it is worth it. The seamless system makes driving more pleasurable, and really more exciting. It's very nice to start the car in the garage and hear nothing, with no exhaust smell fouling up the air.
    I'm anything but an environmental activist. I still say I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius.
  • sdcal1sdcal1 Member Posts: 3
    edited November 2012
    The average Joe out there does not post or understand launches or delays because of this or that. I am a heavy equipment salesman for 25 years now and we just don't offer anything until we have it because of experiences just like this. When a car salesman tells you can order a vehicle and 6 to 8 weeks later your vehicle will be here well then stupid them. Most believe in the dealer they have done business with maybe for years in the past. Delays for what ever reason effect people differently and again not everyone consumer is up to speed with modern launches. My own story was very complicated and created many problems for my family

    That said... i received my daughters new Fusion two months ahead of unexpectedly when a vehicle came in close to my specs and I was given the opportunity to buy it like my fleet order back in August. Picked up last night. I must say I am blown away by just how technically advanced this vehicle is. I bought this for my 17 yr old daughter and not sure she will ever get all that it has to offer and just might be more vehicle than she should have. I have only driven it a few miles but the 1.6 is a little lacking and does have a tendency for the trans to search more than it should but can't imagine her to realize. The rest of us that are use to more powerful engines will feel how this little engine strains. Still impressed as my 14 year old son marveled at every cool item the advanced car had to offer. He spent 3 hours in the garage going over over all the items/options and how they worked. Oh youth and how they enjoy technology!!! He enjoyed telling me everyting and hopefully will have the patience with his sister to explain it all.

    Will keep you posted as I plan to suprise her with a car she does not expect to be back from Flat Rock until around Christmas. Do love messing with the young.
  • I had to cruise down I-95 between Springfield and Richmond VA and saw two on the way down, and one on the way back. It looks great in white, and it looked decked out. I couldn't get over to see what trim level it was. (Titanium? Platinum diamond? gold ruby iridium?). :P

    The other two were that killer blue color..... They were going the other way.

    I gotta tell you, I love what they did with the front, and also am really fond of the dual exhaust and how they flawlessly integrated it into the rear bumper. This is the best looking Ford sedan I have seen since the 92-95 SHO. (The current SHO is classified as a large sedan).

    Good job Ford.
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  • puppybone69puppybone69 Member Posts: 24
    Just out of curiosity, was your original order for the 1.6 with auto start/stop? If it was, that's what caused the delay. I don't know what the problem is with that particular option, but all orders requesting it have been delayed. Maybe they're addressing safety concerns with the fact that it locks up the steering? As far as I know, no other configurations are affected, just that particular one. So perhaps they're just sending Fusions to Flat Rock to install that one option.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There were initial problems with the dies then subsequent parts problems that appear to have now been corrected with the exception of auto start/stop which I also believe is a parts supply problem (uses a different battery and starter motor). The big delay right now is fixing the backlog of vehicles with bad or missing parts.
  • sdcal1sdcal1 Member Posts: 3
    My order did not include the start/stop with the 1.6. I had the 204A package and you could not get that package on the start /stop so I opted not to get even though it is priced right.
  • sdcal1sdcal1 Member Posts: 3
    My original ordered vehicle was manufactured on 10/10/2012 and was part of the group of vehicles slated for the repair/fix. I was told by the dealer that just over 27,000 vehicles were being shipped to Flat Rock for repair. The vehicle I received was manufactured 10/31/2012.
  • I figured I would add that the C/D long term test BMW had start/stop on the 2.0 turbo, and it had some NVH issues. They quoted " rumbling and stumbling restarts". that might be something to check out during a test drive of any so-equipped vehicle to see how slick the system is. I know that if I dropped $45k on a new BMW and it shook and shuddered I would be less than happy.

    It is at least easily disabled on the dash, (which defeats the purpose of having it in the first place).
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    BMW doesn't have much experience with this technology. Ford has had it on their hybrids for over 7 years now. All of the reviews I've read say that it's seamless and not noticeable. It has to do with the engine software and where it leaves the engine when it's turned off that makes it easier to restart quickly and smoothly.
  • puppybone69puppybone69 Member Posts: 24
    I'm glad I didn't order mine until October. It's been almost 6 weeks now, and I still don't even have a VIN# yet, so I wonder how much longer mine will take.
  • My neighbor came home with a Focus SEL hatchback 2 mos ago, and this morning it's on the flatbed on the way to the dealer.

    This is the second time. Last time was on Halloween, and the transmission was replaced because a bracket was defective the transmission. This time he backed it out and it would not shift into drive.

    So....Maybe Ford has launched too many new vehicles at once? I mean Focus, Fusion, Escape and the Explorer are all new, or recent; ground up fresh vehicles.
    sdcal, I hope they work it out soon on the Fusion you ordered. Beautiful car.

    Hope u guys had a nice holiday.

    -Chris
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ford already admitted they've been launching too many vehicles too quickly and that's led to more problems than normal but I don't think that Focus problem is one of them. First one I've heard of like that. Most of the problems are around fit and finish, defective parts or software.

    Now that they've launched the 3rd gen hybrids including the Fusion/CMax and almost launched the plug-in versions I think they'll slow down the pace just a little and get the problems fixed.
  • Oh boy, Ford is recalling nearly 90K units of the 1.6 Ecoboost Fusion and Escape, due to overheating and engine fires. Too bad. A great little engine that was released a bit prematurely?
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