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USED European Luxury Cars (pre 1990)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think that color combo was available.

    the 230-250-280SL is actually pretty common around California. I see 1-2 almost every day. They made a lot of them (around 50,000!)and many consequently have survived due to popularity and excellent build quality.

    You can still buy them from say $16,000 for a decent driver to $30K on up for the real beauties. A few of them have the very rare 5-speed manual transmission, but most are automatics and less are 4-speed sticks. The stick shift is no fun to shift but it can be worked over to be shift-able.

    The reason the 5-speed is great is that you get a sort of overdrive. One big drawback of the 280SL is that it is really wound up tight at 70 mph and not very pleasant to drive because of all that engine revving.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    For a used car (vs a classic) it's hard to go wrong with a well-kept 6 cyl (M103) MB W126. The last ones were the end of an era.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I also think the 6s are better overall. The V8s are complex and real gas hogs.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    The M103 is a fantastic engine. It lasts a long time and is a good performer. The original 300E was a rocket in its day.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    check out this cute little booger for sale. Too bad they don't list a price.

    I always thought these 80's hardtops were cool, but aren't they considered money pits?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    oh you don't want those big old coupes--heavy, expensive, slow rust buckets and bad investments.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    250SE...looks to need some cosmetic tidying...maybe 10K if mechanically sound. They can rust.

    500SEC...probably about half that if it is sound. It's not too cool with 92-style wheels and those wheelarch trim pieces. If you like those, seek out a late 560SEC - best of the style. Very easily a money pit, an engine rebuild is easily twice the value of the car.
  • mbchikmbchik Member Posts: 2
    Just bought my first Mercedes, a 1988 190E 2.3 series. It's a great little vehicle has lots of power for a 4 cylinder. I am having problems with the electronics for the trunk access. The access is normally from the outside with the key which isn't working. Is there access to the trunk from the inside of the vehicle? Or some other way to bypass the electronics to open the trunk?
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ...you've tried the trunk lock from both the trunk and via unlocking the doors at the driver's door, which also (should) unlock the fuel filler door and trunk. You should be able to just push the trunk lock button and open it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Yeah, there's no interior button to unlock/open it as far as I know. When you unlock the doors, the trunk unlocks, and when you lock it, everything locks at once. Sometimes the lock cylinders on those cars canm get iffy if you try to unlock it from the trunk lock - it can take a few tries. Just unlock a door and it should all unlock.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I'm pretty sure, at least on my mom's 300E of the same year, that there's a way to lock the trunk and disable the trunk lock from working--certainly that could be the problem. Don't remember there being a 'valet key' or any such thing per se, though. Make sure the trunk lock cylinder is in the vertical (IIRC) position, as it's on 'lockdown mode' if it's in the horizontal (or maybe I have that reversed--either way, experiment a bit).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    My 126 300SE had a square-fob key for normal driving, and an oval-fob key for valet. I think it just didn't unlock the glove box, maybe the trunk. I remember that 126 had a sticky trunk lock cylinder...often it would take several tries for me to unlock via the trunk. It might be an issue among period MB.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    For some reason I thought you had a 300SEL.

    I did see a '90 350SDL today...talk about a rough-running engine there. No wonder almost nobody wants them today.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    image

    Yeah, my 126 was the SWB. Great old car, I'd have kept it if I had the room to store it.

    I've heard the engine in those late 126 diesels can be quite a leaker too.
  • amazonamazon Member Posts: 293
    Are the 350 SDL's not good? I like the idea of more power than the earlier 300's
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    I really don't know much about that engine technically, but once I was looking at a 350SD (the very rare SWB model made in 90-91) and my MB specialist told me to stay away. I think there must have been a reason.

    It's a little off the target of this thread, but I know the W140 was offered in a diesel in 92-93...I wonder how those are.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    350SLD -- Bad engine design...stay away....
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I recall reading in a Benz buyer's guide one time that the W140's diesel engine was the exact same unit from the W126. They only sold them here for four years (1992-95) until they pulled the cars from the American market for emissions issues. I've seen very few W140 diesels- apparently nobody wanted them even when new.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Was it the unit from the earlier 300SD, the later version, or the 350SD/L? Or maybe the same as in the 124? The 140 cars were badged "300SD" IIRC, so that adds some confusion. I'd imagine a smallish diesel wouldn't have the easiest time lugging around that big 140 body.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    The 140 diesel cars were indeed badged "300SD" but that was only for the first two years, 1992 and 1993. When Mercedes revised its model numbering system, then they went to the "S350" badging. Yes, the engine in all W140 diesel cars was the infamous 3.5-liter unit first seen in the 126. If you have an opportunity go to www.msn.com and look up reviews for the S-Class from '92-'95. You'll find that most consumer reviews of the 300SD/S350 are less than positive.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Good reason to stick with the older 126 cars I guess. They may be a little slower, but are generally very reliable if maintained. I see 123 and early 126 diesels on the road daily, cars that have been out of production for over 20 years.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    One more thing, what was the model designation of the SL series (1990-2002) that came after the long-running 560SL and others? They were good solid cars but I recall them being overly complicated in terms of electronics.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 300SL and 500SL. They were good looking but not particularly exciting to drive.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    That'd be a R129, aka W129. I think the pick of the series is the 6cyl cars...I'd run from a V12. They all up depreciating to the same level anyway. I've seen higher mileage ones for under 10K, decent early models for 15K or so. The last of the 01-02 Silver Arrow cars still carry asking prices near 40K. We got them in 300SL/SL320 and 500/600 series.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ...unless you really 'need' the rear legroom of a LWB 126 (the 300SDL) would be a W124 300D Turbo, eh? I think, though, they were only sold in the U.S. for one year, though (1987), so they're a bit hard to find, and kind of expensive. The 300TD wagon of the same year (if you're into that) has the same engine, IIRC.
  • amazonamazon Member Posts: 293
    The late model W124 Diesels (MY'02-'05), What's the consensus on those?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    I haven't heard anything really bad about 124 diesels...the wagons are fairly sought-after too.
  • mbchikmbchik Member Posts: 2
    This solution came from a building contractor and dedicated Mercedes owner:
    turn the key in the trunk lock to the left, push in, and tap the top of the trunk edge with a free hand.
    Glory be this really worked! For the 1988 190E series there does not appear to be any interior access - amazing for German technology.
    Many, many thanks for all who responded to my plea.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I suggest that the title of this topic be changed to "...(pre 2000)" to jump start interest in it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    great idea on one level, and thanks for the suggestion, but we are the "Classics" board, so we sorta kinda have to keep it about "old" cars....what would you think about a topic in the Maintenance & Repair board...something like "Dealing with Out of Warranty German Luxury Cars?"
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    You could try that, Shifty, but I'd guess that such a narrow subject wouldn't gain much traction.

    In terms of reducing the age threshold of the current topic, I suppose it depends on how much you're willing to stretch the term "classic", since it will take a few years before the 1989s meet the definition. Currently, 1989s are merely old, as would be 1999s. Another possibility, if "old" is the defacto criterion, would be to raise the threshold to "pre 1997" on January 1, and then bump the date up one year on January 1, 2008, and each year thereafter...or not. Well, okay, let's make that January 2 if the new years eve party you happen to attend is a trifle to libatious.

    You're the arbiter, of course, of how much latitude is appropriate for the term classic. I'm just trying to think of how an interesting topic might be revived.

    Another possibility would be to leave the date as is, but substitute European for German, so as to include some Italian, Swedish and British marques.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah let's do that!
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    Shifty, you'll typically say that a Benz with,say,150,000 on it is used up and not worth much. That certainally makes sense,but I notice that the few times I've investigated bottom-feeder MBs as just a fun,week-end car, I'm surprised how little $5,000 will get you here on the east coast. Are they jusy much more common in Califirnia, and therefore worth a little less?
    Last week I looked at an '86 420SEL at a Toyota dealer's. It had 150,000 miles on it...Nice paint,no rust, but brake and coolant lights were on...interior had many large cracks in leather. I was dumbfounded that the "sale" price was $5,000...Certainally they'd go lower, but the car really drove like a dog. And $5,000 Benzes always seem to be like that here...Am I expecting too much?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well you know what Shifty always says:

    "The asking price of a car is merely the seller exercising his First Amendment rights".

    They are obviously trolling for some fool to pay that much for a doggy car....for $5K, such a car should be darn near immaculate.

    Yeah, I'm sure cleaner Benzes are more common out here, but really a market is based on supply and demand, and I can't see ANYWHERE in the world there would be a demand for shabby Benzes....it's not like a shabby bad-running Benz is going to bring anyone happiness or prestige, or have any allure to drive up market prices.

    So what i'm saying is sure, you could argue quite rightly that there may be a shortage of clean, well-kept, great running Benzes on the East Coast, and that such a shortage would demand perhaps a slightly higher price than out West....but there is no shortage of beat up old used cars in America, that's for sure.

    Besides, a dealer can offer high interest financing and can sell a shabby car on the monthly payment price. Anyone with a pulse can buy $5,000 worth of credit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    420SEL sounds like a $1500 car in that condition, and I'm being generous.

    Brake light could be pricey.

    If you want a nice W126, do as Shifty mentions and peek at California...or really the whole west coast.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    A better W126 deal

    Price is certainly negotiable

    Funny with MB...with older cars it seems the 6 is th best bet, and the V8s are problematic. But in modern ones, I seem to hear about more problems in 6 cyl cars (C320, E320) than in V8 cars (save for the W220).
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah the Inline 6 was always a better motor then the V6 that replaced it.

    The newest MB V6s might be equal to the old Inline 6 but I doubt it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Rather than spend 5K on a dodgy W126 sedan, spend a little more and get a lot more
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Looks to be in good shape. Price is too high by about $1,500 though. Two tons of solid German freight train...the car gets up and goes pretty good, though (under 8 seconds 0-60) and if you don't put your foot too deep into the Boschware, you'll average 15 mpg. Certainly more fun than a big SUV.

    Don't know about the "collector" part. Pricing in the marketplace suggests it's really just a nice old used car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Yeah, they aren't exactly appreciating. Some British magazines have called them a future collectible, but I suspect people were saying the same things about the SLC 10 years ago.

    Lots of content for $7500 though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They'll probably bottom out like the SLC at around $5,000 and stay there forever.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Sounds about right. Seems to be about where most nice examples of larger old MBs go.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The downside of that is that these cars fall into the hands of owners who can afford to buy them but not maintain them...and so, they are driven into the dirt.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    Yep, and it's rare to find an enthusiast for non-sporty old MBs who will care for them. I think it's been that way for decades...one reason why a nice W111 coupe is easier to find than a nice fintail.

    I just thought of this...W126 - nice one 5K. W116 - nice one 5K. W108 - nice one 5K. W111 fintail - nice one 5K. And a good ponton isn't much more.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not surprised that they have a lot of those BMW models. Those are not really the "hot" models, so many of those old parts will rot on the cars I fear, although some folks will selectively pick stuff off 528s as they share parts with the i models. If they were 528i, 325s, Ms, 2002s and 635CSi, they wouldn't even be there anymore. And nobody wants junk 914s or 924s (the 914 aftermarket parts market is excellent---outstanding actually)...and definitely nobody wants old Jaguar XJ6s unless there is some cherry chrome on there.

    Actually a very solid 914 tub would be desirable, as these cars can be build into great AutoX cars.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I know that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche parts tend to be very expensive, but I don't know exactly why this is, or whether there's a valid justification for it. Do these manufacturers tend to price their new cars aggressively, relative to their cost to manufacture, and then try to recoup profits through replacement parts, kind of like Gilette does with razor blades and Kodak does with film? Do they simply charge what the traffic will bear, thereby taking advantage of the fact that owners of these cars are willing to pay considerably more for parts than owners of Chevys, Fords, Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas? Do German car parts tend to cost more to manufacture, due to their design?

    To expand the question to include parts and labor, why is the term "money pit", or variations of that term, associated more with German cars(and Swedish and British, for that matter) than with domestic and Asian brands? I know that mechanics who work on European cars frequently charge a higher hourly rate (which may be why they're more often referred to as technicians), but that doesn't entirely explain the higher labor charges. For example, I've been told that oil changes on Porsches cost about $250, because the engine has to be dropped.

    Have Lexus, Infinity, and maybe Cadillac adopted the German/European pricing model, thereby leaving reliability as the primary cost-to-maintain differentiater between luxury models?

    I can only guess about what the answers to these questions are, but maybe some of you have better insight on this matter than I do. One thing beyond question is that the high cost of parts, especially, is a deterent to owning an old German luxury car.
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