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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    My response was mostly about the previous person's post about having had three failures already. It's time to toss that toad and get another vehicle.

    Unfortunately, the new CVTs aren't a big improvement. But the only way to avoid it on many models is the get a 4 cylinder car with manual. Which drives a lot better and will cost you a fraction to repair.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I bought the second Fusion that rolled off the truck back in 2005. Not only a new version but an entirely new vehicle on a new platform. I just traded it for a 2013. In just over 7 years the only thing I had to do was oil, filter, a new battery, 2 tire changes and replace the driver's door handle ($60 and 15 minutes). Except for the dead battery it never failed to start or had any other problems.

    Problems that occur on today's new vehicles are usually engineering goofs or supplier goofs that are easily corrected and don't reoccur. Minor inconvenience.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    Thanks so much for saying that about the Car and driver "0 to $60 an hour" for labor on a new clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing...and if it is a fancy dual clutch then another clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing......

    I posted an average of 3 tests on the V6 Accord. I think 6.1 is repeatable by someone who hasn't won a Motor Sport championship of some sort.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    Dude, it's BARELY even leather. The luxury package is another $2500....and includes the dual sunroof, power passenger seat, and the seat heaters. Did I mention the 3 kids?...and the feeding, clothing, and I-Padding of aforementioned kids?? :cry:

    In my previous vehicle, the Jeep GC, the sunroof leaked and the seat heaters broke, only heating my back on high, then dumping water on my head. SWEET! :cry:
  • gene84gene84 Member Posts: 9
    I have a 2000 Honda Odessey minivan with over 152,000 miles with many miles of towing a 1,500-lb trailer and have had no transmission problems or other problems. I also had a 1983 Chey van with a 4-speed automatic TX which was replaced three times during the same mileage (not to mention two torque converters). I never saw any warning about Chey's TX problems but thousands had to be replaced.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    1983? Seriously? GM was crap back then and we all know it. But their automatics are the most reliable currently. The cars themselves are uninspiring Toyota-level vanilla rental fodder, though, so it's a bit like a deal with The Devil. You get immortality but you're stuck being a tree or something equally unappealing. :P
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    I agree. We are here to talk about recent model midsize sedans we let the Odyssey go because we were talking about Honda transmissions, but now that is over. Let's get back on topic. There are only a few of us that share, but many people come here and make serious decisions about whether or not to buy a specific new car.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Good call - thanks for doing my job for free! :P

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  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    I replaced my original set of Michelans on my 2009 Fusion SEL V6 about 15,000 miles ago with the Continental Extreme Contact DWS. I was looking for a good All Season Tire that would give me decent traction in the snow and would handle nearly as well as the Michelans. Plus I didn't want to break the bank and to replace the Michelans was going to be $260 mounted, balanced, and tax each. I got the Continentals through my Ford dealer because Ford guarantees they will beat any other local tire price. I spent $690 for the set OTD. I highly recommend these tires. They ride and handle just as well as the Michelans plus are very good in the snow. The Michelans were terrible in the snow since they were considered a summer performance tire.
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0b3259

    There is an entire *thread* about this. My comments about what the transmission shop/rebuilder said concerning Honda CVTs is accurate as far as I am concerned.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    How many miles did you get out of your Michelin's? I am hoping to get 25-30k out of my stock tires..... I can't wait to see how much of a difference it will make to go with Michelin Pilot or the Continentals you mentioned. My choice will be depending on price, and after getting more data on real-world wear. Also, my car's stability control can't be completely shut off (but traction control can), so paying for a tire that can handle .96 g of lateral grip on a car whose computer ends the fun at .83 is a waste of $. Pirelli is really my 3rd choice; now that I think about it! $690 is a good deal. Since you have the V6 Fusion SEL, I assume you have 17" tires.....possibly 215/55/17 94-V? That is my size as well.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    so paying for a tire that can handle .96 g of lateral grip on a car whose computer ends the fun at .83 is a waste of $

    I thought the computer safety nannies jumped in AFTER any slip is detected. So upgrading the tires should give you more 'play' room.

    On my previous RWD car if I hammered it like a maniac it would intervene after a slight chirp and wiggle of the rear end. Similarly it intervened at much lower speeds when it was wet out side...because it detected the tire slip situation.

    I think if it were just looking at your g's you'd end up spinning out of control on slippery surfaces.
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    I had 35,500 miles on my odometer when the new were put on. I think I could have gotten another 5K out of the Michelans but it was January of 2012 and I feared going into the snowiest time of the winter here with tires that were crappy in the snow when new. My tire size is 225/50ZR17. By the way my Fusion has been a great vehicle. How do you feel about yours?
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    On the Optima it has a lateral G sensor, as do all stability control programs. When the system detects .82 of lateral G, it commands the system to apply the brakes, killing the fun. .96 lat/g tires are a waste of money. Stability control (helps) keep your average idiot from killing his family entering a corner with too much speed. :cry:

    You are confusing stability control with AWD, which adjusts to an ACTUAL loss of grip. Then we enter the world of locking diff's as well.

    I can turn off the traction control completely though...so I can do hella burn outs. ;)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ford's stability control does not measure G forces. It measures yaw rate with several sensors including steering. It will not kick in until the vehicle actually understeers or oversteers so the better the tires the higher the Gs.
  • Ford calls its sensor the L.A.S...Lateral Acceleration Sensor. It is the same thing. . My car also has a yaw sensor.

    From Wikipedia "ESC incorporates yaw rate control into the anti-lock braking system (ABS). Yaw is a rotation around the vertical axis; i.e. spinning left or right. Anti-lock brakes enable ESC to brake individual wheels. Many ESC systems also incorporate a traction control system (TCS or ASR), which senses drive-wheel slip under acceleration and individually brakes the slipping wheel or wheels and/or reduces excess engine power until control is regained. However, ESC achieves a different purpose than ABS or Traction Control.[20]
    The ESC system uses several sensors to determine what the driver wants (input). Other sensors indicate the actual state of the vehicle (response). The control algorithm compares driver input to vehicle response and decides, when necessary, to apply brakes and/or reduce throttle by the amounts calculated through the state space (set of equations used to model the dynamics of the vehicle).[34] The ESC controller can also receive data from and issue commands to other controllers on the vehicle such as an all wheel drive system or an active suspension system to improve vehicle stability and controllability.
    The sensors used for ESC have to send data at all times in order to detect possible defects as soon as possible. They have to be resistant to possible forms of interference (rain, holes in the road, etc.). The most important sensors are:
    Steering wheel angle sensor: determines the driver's intended rotation; i.e. where the driver wants to steer. This kind of sensor is often based on AMR-elements.
    Yaw rate sensor : measures the rotation rate of the car; i.e. how much the car is actually turning. The data from the yaw sensor is compared with the data from the steering wheel angle sensor to determine regulating action.
    Lateral acceleration sensor: often an accelerometer
    Wheel speed sensor : measures the wheel speed.
    Other sensors can include:
    Longitudinal acceleration sensor: similar to the lateral acceleration sensor in design but can offer additional information about road pitch and also provide another source of vehicle acceleration and speed.
    Roll rate sensor: similar to the yaw rate sensor in design but improves the fidelity of the controller's vehicle model and correct for errors when estimating vehicle behavior from the other sensors alone."


    The truth is that all of these sensors work together with ABS and (Traction Control System) and many even cut power to mitigate yaw. My car cuts power if it detects over .82 or if the system detects loss of grip...whichever comes first.
  • To answer your question mtnman1, I love my car except for 3 things.

    1) blind spot
    2) Pass seat: no height adj.
    3) No spare tire (compressor/sealer kit included). (LX and EX trim).

    So, not only does it have a blind spot, but my passenger can't adjust the seat high enough to see either.

    There is a nit-picking issue on the steering. It is numb and slow. Feedback is better when pushing it near it's limits, and on the highway at high speed.

    Here is a link to a 5 car comparo from C/D: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2013-chevrolet-malibu-eco-vs-2012-honda-- accord-ex-l-2012-hyundai-sonata-se-2012-kia-optima-ex-2012-toyota-camry-se-2012-- volkswagen-passat-25-se-comparison-tests
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    Personally I will not buy a CVT equipped car period. The current Altima has plenty of complaints, even the 2013 Accord has some. They may be fine for lease owners or those who change cars often, I drive them a long time. Same goes for sunroofs. I know far too many people that regret having them. Added noise, leaks and repairs etc.
    The current DI four cyl. engines get decent mileage while providing enough power output for the average consumer. My current V6 averages 27 mpg and 25 in winter. The next car must be in the 30's.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Speak on repairs. What goes wrong and cost. Seems still would be cheaper than an AT rebuild, repair, replace.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    REF: 17594 (cski)
    If you could start from scratch (i.e., no Kia), what would you buy/lease this month?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Same goes for sunroofs. I know far too many people that regret having them. Added noise, leaks and repairs etc.

    Different folks, different strokes. Wife and I have bought cars over the years that had these "standard" and we have never used them. The window is closed. The sunshade always closed.

    Could never figure out why on very hot 90 degree summer days, I see folks with sunroof shade drawn back, and windows closed and AC apparently on, they have the the hot sun shining on their heads. What the heck is that about?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sunroofs (or moonroofs) are tinted and normally don't transmit very much heat into the vehicle. Our Edge has the BAMR (big [non-permissible content removed] moon roof) and we leave the shades open all the time in the summer (Atlanta - mid to high 90s) without any problems whatsoever.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 2013 Fusion achieved 0.87Gs on Motortrend's skidpad so it's certainly not limited like the other one you mentioned. Given Ford's use of a yaw sensor and steering input I'd be very surprised if there was any limit on lateral acceleration without understeer or oversteer.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Know what you mean. I also see peole with sun roof wide open, catchiing diesel exhaust, dead animal odor, cold, heat, dust... yecch! Some of us are lucky enough to live in an ideal climate and environment, but not me.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    Man. That is a loaded question pegasus17.

    Money no object? Ok.

    1)Honda Accord V6 Touring (has real 6 speed automatic..no CVT) Best build quality, safe, fast, spacious, and has lots of tech goodies. Good sight-lines, and no blind spot. Proven engine. Very nice looking car as well. Made in USA. Did I mention fast?

    2) Kia Optima EX/SX/SXL. Best price and value. Has real 6 speed automatic, Both engines good on horsepower, turbo is almost as quick as the Honda. Safe, good build quality, gorgeous in SX and SXL trim, and A+ materials on the interior, making it a nice place to sit in traffic. 3rd year for this model so all issue's have been sorted out. Made in USA.

    I spend a lot of time reading, and almost every car magazine still doesn't like the buzzing and whining sound/feel that comes from the CVT trannies. After spending $25,000 to $32,000...I don't want to hear irritating and frankly cheap sounds coming from the engine bay either. The push for fuel economy has netted some great technology, and automakers should be very proud. I just don't want to give up a nice driving automatic for a beehive to save 7 cents a mile. My commute is bad enough.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I only own one car with a sunroof/moonroof and I don't get to drive it much anymore (with a son at college). But I liked the sunroof for several reasons:

    1) On a cloudy day, it makes the interior brighter.
    2) On a day with moderate temps (e.g. 50-80), I can pop the roof up or slide it open and enjoy fresh air (when not driving behind a diesel truck)
    3) On a warm but not hot day, I can open it up and use the AC less (roof open plus rear windows cracked gives me nice airflow)
    4) When parked on a warm day with no chance of rain, I can pop the roof and let some of hot air out, so it's cooler inside when I return
    5) On a cold day, I can open the shade and sunlight warms the car.
    6) When I am being pursued by enemy agents, my partner (a gorgeous and highly skilled agent) can stand on the passenger seat and fire at the pursuing cars or helicopters while I drive.

    OK... maybe not the last one. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    How about that Mazda6? No CVT there. And even is available (lowest trim for now) with a 6MT. And talk about "nice looking"!
  • On the Fusion, it lets you have a little more fun till the nanny shuts you down. Each mid size is programmed a little different. It was developed in Germany. I wish mine was sometimes too.

    The top speed on my car is 131 mph. I would love to check that out if it was safe, which it's not, and if there weren't 6,000 camera's so folks at home could enjoy a high-speed pursuit on my behalf.

    There is a local high-speed exit off 395 that I enjoy pushing my cars handling a bit, and it is still satisfying. I think the EST kicked in once in the past 6 months, so it is not a big deal. My real desire fro new tires is for better steering feel, and better rain traction. I am glad that I know what my car's limits are. .82 is enough for me.
  • Awesome. Secret agent. LMAO

    I skipped the sunroof and got the flux capacitor with the Mr. fusion upgrade.

    To me the sunroof is for ambiance. It says "I have the top of the line". It just wasn't a priority for me. I have had cars with them before, and I liked having a sunroof....but again, I just rarely used it. It is congested here. With the sunroof open on the beltway while crawling at 5mph; it's like sticking a tailpipe in the roof. I HATE diesel fumes too.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    forget the shade, I would have the roof wide open too.

    I won't buy a car without one. The shade is always open, and the roof itself whenever possible. Can't stand a car with a solid roof at this point.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • smarty669smarty669 Member Posts: 3
    So, except for the next Mazda 6, I've test driven all the new mid size sedans. If I was going to buy a mid size sedan tomorrow based on what is currently offered, I would rank my buying preference in the order below. What's your buying preference? (The Mazda 6 is based on the 2013).

    (1) Honda Accord
    (2) Kia Optima
    (3) Nissan Altima
    (4) Ford Fusion
    (5) Mazda 6
    (7) Subaru Legacy
    (8) Hyundai Sonata
    (9) Toyota Camry
    (10) Chevrolet Malibu
  • smarty669smarty669 Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2013
    Crap, Completely Forgot about the Passat. I've added that into my buying rank.

    (1) Honda Accord
    (2) Kia Optima
    (3) Nissan Altima
    (4) Ford Fusion
    (5) Mazda 6
    (6) VW Passat
    (7) Subaru Legacy
    (8) Hyundai Sonata
    (9) Toyota Camry
    (10) Chevrolet Malibu

    For me it probably would be a top choice between the first 3.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    I am not in the market now, but I have sat in just about all of them. Though I did drive the Subaru when I was looking at Outbacks.

    based on looking/sitting and lots of reading, the ones that would be on my list are:

    Legacy
    Accord
    Passat
    Optima
    Camry (hurts me to say that, but only because I liked the seats!)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    Drive the Accord Sport and then the Mazda 6 back to back. The Mazda rides better, handles better, has the sweetest automatic, has better seats, a more ergonomic interior. Last but not least (subjective opinion coming...) The Accord looks positively pedestrian compared to the 6 from any angle. As for the Honda V6's, the cylinder shut off system is far from transparent.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
    Mazda 6 would be tied for 3rd w/ Fusion, Passat, and Altima. The Camry is dead last. Actually, the Mazda looks awesome.... But I haven't seen one in person.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Just saw in my local paper that the price of a zero out of pocket 3-year lease on the Accord LX has dropped $40, now $249/month. Probably reflects the 2012s being sold out finally. Now the lease rate is much more competitive with some others such as Passat, Sonata, and Optima. I wonder if the price drop is due to auto show season, where many manufacturers have special incentives.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    It's 219/month here in SW Ohio. you have to add the $250 doc fee + tt&l but that is a big drop...The only change in the lease data i saw was the money factor dropped from 0.00155 to 0.00125; residual still 62% for 12k miles/year on the LX

    http://pictures.dealer.com/v/vosshondaoh/0289/f0011d780a0d02b70197871d6b3ab119.j- pg
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    $249 with nothing OOP is a better deal IMO compared to $219 with a doc fee and TT&L (and first payment, most likely) up front. Not sure about Ohio, but in MN you pay sales tax up front for the entire lease term. So let's say the payments total $9,000... you pay (or SOMEONE pays) $600 just in taxes. The fees would add about another $600. So that's like paying, let's see, carry the 2... just over $250 a month. But you'd have to pay $1,200 of that (and maybe over $1,400 if the first payment isn't included) up front. With the $249 a month and nothing OOP deal, you pay NOTHING up front, not even the first payment. I'd take that deal over what the Ohio dealers are offering any day.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    Your original post did not say the 249 included taxes. If i add in the rest of the costs to the initial 219, i get 219+7+15+4 = 245 total per month. Much better than a few days ago...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My original post said "zero out of pocket". What was unclear about "zero"? :)

    Does that $219 + fees + taxes deal include the first payment paid for you, or do you pay that up front too?
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    It's 36 payments of 245 OR 35 payments of 252 (with ZERO o-o-p). you win by $3/month.
    I still want a power seat though...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I can live w/o a power seat as long as the manual adjusters provide good range of movement. But what I am finding I like a lot more than I thought I would are the seat heaters on my wife's Sonata GLS with PEP. I figured with cloth, seat heaters were superfluous. Well, I think differently now! It's nice to feel the warmth long before the car's interior warms up.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited February 2013
    I'm not in the market right this second but am looking to replace a midsize sedan in about a year so I'm starting the comparos of my own. I compared the 6 Grand Touring vs the Accord EX-L. The Mazda6 GT is about $1500 more than the EX-L but it does appear to come with NAV and quite a bit more. My list is not all inclusive as some things just don't matter that much to me so I just listed the ones that are and the ones I find interesting.

    1. 6 has 6spd auto vs Accord's CVT. I personally would rather have a 6 spd auto than the CVT.
    2. 6 has about the same power and torque but arriving at lower revs.
    3. 6 weighs about 135lb less.
    4. 6 gets 26/38 and the Accord gets 27/36. Somewhat of a wash there I guess.
    5. Exteror and interior dimensions are very close so no clearcut advantage to either there but I did notice the 6 has over 2 inches more in wheelbase which usually equates to a little smooter ride.
    6. In these models, Grand Touring and EX-L, a lot standard or available but I was suprized at how much more the Mazda, which is listed below first, had for example:
    -19" vs. 17" tires/wheels.
    -Directionally adaptive headlights, not available on the Accord.
    -HIDs, halogen on the Accord EX-L.
    -11 spkr sound vs. 7 spkr sound in the Accord EX-L.
    -Glovebox light, not available on the Accord EX-L. LOL. I don't really care but there it is.
    -Gearshift knob is leather, plastic and rubber on the Accord. What's up with that on leather trim?
    -Compass standard on the 6, available on the Accord.
    -Auxilliary visors vs. not available on the Accord.
    -Voice activated NAV vs. available for the Accord.
    -Homelink on the 6, not available on the Accord Ex-L.

    There are a couple of things I noticed that the Accord has and the obvious one is that side mirror camera thing. I'm not sure I would even have that turned to tell you the truth. I'm still getting used to using my backup camera in my current new vehilce and notice a slight disruption in my awareness of where the front of my vehilce is going as I watch that thing and don't like that exactly. I realize I'll get used to it but I don't know if I want to be staring at a video pic of my side mirror driving 70 down the expressway. I'm sure it will good thing but it's not a major plus for me. The other thing was that both driver and passenger front widnows on the Accord had auto up/down vs just the driver on the 6. Not major but wanted to offer equal time.

    All in all, I would on say on paper at least the Mazda6 is great competitor and from what I've read it drives very good too. Can't wait to take my wifes's 2007 Mazda6 in for her next oil change and test drive one.
  • I need to go drive an Accord, a Fusion, and a Mazda 6. This race is too close for me to make an on-paper only choice. I briefly drove a Fusion, but it was the only one the dealer had at the time.

    I am biased.....see below.

    For example, my drive into the city today was very satisfying. My Optima's 6 speed auto is always ready to choose the right gear, making 50 to 85 mph passing effortless. The sound of the dual exhaust is very throaty and quite refined until about 500 rpm before redline (6500 RPM is redline)...where it gets coarse. The main power-band is available between 3500 and 6000 RPM. It is a very flexible combination.

    So, if I only drive the Optima then my choice is going to be biased, no matter what.

    So, by this weekend I will have driven all 4 top contenders. It's an excuse to go play with cars, and since it is my birthday today, I think I will have a bit of fun! :D
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Sounds like a good list and a fun bday activity!++

    Why are you getting a car already? Did you lease?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    Which Fusion powertrain are you going to test drive? The 1.6L EcoBoost (with 6-speed A/T) will be a disappointment in comparison to the Accord's 2.4L and Mazda6's 2.5L. The Mazda matches the Kia Optima's maximum torque, but reaches that peak at 3250rpm (1000rpm than the Kia), so it has some extra low-end grunt. The Accord will outrun all three of them and would be almost perfect if not for that one deal-breaker- CVT!!!

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them after your test drives! Have fun!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited February 2013
    I'm normally a manual guy, but this time needed to go auto for the spouse and teen in our house. I liked the Accord CVT better than I thought I would. If you're not going to shift for yourself, why celebrate the little jerks? The Accord CVT inserts a little pseudo "shift feel" via programming, and is apparently better than Nissan's CVT for feel and sound.

    I get to keep our 2008 Accord EXL 5MT, which becomes more "my" car, and so I don't mind having a CVT in the family.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited February 2013
    Why do you say the Accord will outrun all three? The Mazda 6i Touring Auto has been timed at 6.5 for the 0-60 and 15.5 for the quarter. The Accord was timed 6.5 and 15.7. Doesn't appear to me that the Accord outruns it. It may ourtrun the Fusion 1.6T and the Optima EX though.

    With that being said, most people IMO are not buying these cars becasue they are 1 or 2 tenths of a second quicker. Now if you were talking a couple of seconds that would be a deal breaker as that would affect the driving experience somewhat. That's really the only reason I even glance at 0-60 times for cars like this is to make sure they are in the ballpark with their competitors and they usually are. Very little seperates them when it comes to speed. Now if I were comparing a Mustang GT vs. a Camaro SS or something like that I would be very inerested in the 0-60 times etc.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    The Mazda 6 manual seats do have height adjustment. Aftermarket seat heaters can be added for about $500 as we did with my wifes Sonata SE Turbo.
    For my car (manual cloth) and truck (leather power king seats) I installed sheepskin covers for less than half the cost of heated seats. They are warm in winter and cooler in summer. I even have sheepskin pads for the Motorcycle seats. They add serious comfort to any seat. No baahhaaaad sheep jokes please....
  • I am not buying anything. Just gonna check them out.
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