Midsize Sedans 2.0

[Deleted User] · March 2013

I like new Honda Accord as well. if it was available at the end of 2011, I would be driving one right now. It just has this X Factor of quality. I like the crisp lines of the exterior, I like the dash assembly with the 2 screens; I like the IP gauge cluster, with it's classic slender needles. What I can't figure out is why Honda doesn't have a competitive 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. That would have sealed the deal. I bet Honda would steal quite a few sales from Sonatas and Optima's if that was available. Perhaps next time will be the right time and place to purchase one.

benjaminh · March 2013

Hyundai started that 100k warranty about 10 years ago as move to get themselves back in the game. As you know, in the 80s and 90s the quality of Hyundai/Kia was far from a Honda of the era. But starting about the year 2000 Hyundai/Kia made a major push toward quality, and were getting closer to Honda and Toyota, but the question was how to let the US customer know about itâand so they went for the 100k warranty on the engine.

Honda and Toyota moved to a degree, by moving their engine warranties up to 5/60 from 3/36.

But have you heard of "Million Mile Joe"? He's a nut who somehow drove a million miles in an early 1990s Accord on the original engine. Most engines don't last nearly that long, not even Hondas. But Hondas engines are generally admired as the best in the biz, and so I really don't think you need to worry about your Honda engine much.

But genuine HondaCare warranties are available at a reasonable price if you shop around.

I'm probably going to get my new 2013 Accord EXL navi 4 cylinder today, and just for peace of mind I'm going to add a HondaCare 0 deductible 8 year 100k mile bumper to bumper for $960.

Hyundai and Kia have made huge strides. And in terms of quality I think they are about the same as a Honda today.

For that extra bit of engineering excellence, however, the little bit extra for a Honda is worth it to me. You just can expect to pay a little more to get the best.

My 2 cents.

There are obviously lots of great cars in the midsize segmentâFusion, Optima, Mazda6, etc. Each one has their good points, and we all get to enjoy our favorite.+++

aviboy97 · March 2013

Motor Trend did a comparison between the Camry, Mazda6 and Accord. Interesting results...

Motor Trend

nyccarguy · March 2013

I lurk mostly in this forum. I know you are a big Honda fan & an Accord guy as well. I personally don't believe it's necessary to purchase an extended warranty for a Honda, especially a 4cyl Accord. I know the CVT is new tech & would surely be expensive to replace, but I truly believe in Honda as a company. 2 of the 3 cars in my garage are Hondas (2001 Prelude & 2011 Pilot). 100K miles is NOTHING. Good luck with your purchase!

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Yeah man.....million mile Joe was in one of my my latest issue of C/D! He bought it in 1996 from an old couple with 74k on the ODO, then racked up the miles.

Something like 78 oil changes, 13 sets of brake pads, tons-o-tires, and a total of 2,000,2050 miles. The engine has never been opened. Thats a good thing, because if someone opened it, I think the contents would liquefy. LOL.

Honda surprised him with an impromptu parade as he was accepting the key's to a 2012 from Ms Maine. It's good to be Joe!

So, look guys; All we have to do is keep piling the miles on and maybe we get a free car!!! (subject to a $19,900 doc-prep). LMAO :shades:

benjaminh · March 2013

Yeah, they really like the Mazda6, which is a great car. I like Mazdas, and have owned a few myself over the years. But overall, I feel like Hondas are better cars.

And look at the list prices. They were comparing a c. $32k Mazda6 with a c. $25k Honda Accord.

benjaminh · March 2013

You might be right!

I got an 8 year extended warranty on my 2002 Accord and never used it during the 8 full years I owned the car.

I got an 8 year Hondacare on my 2008, and I haven't used that one either. They did fix some things (squeaky brake pads replaced free, etc.) under the regular warranty, but I have yet to use the extended for anything.

But for the 2013 there is so much new technology that I want the peace of mind of the extended warranty.

To list a few things, they have the new EarthDreams (silly name!) engine with direct injection, and then the all-new CVT, and then the cameras, touch screen, new HD navi, etc.

You may be right, nycarguy, that I'm wasting my money, but for $960 it's worth it to me not to worry about my new Honda for the next 8 years....+++

andres3 · March 2013

I think other people have a hard time understanding how you could agree with both that Honda has made better cars, and seems higher quality, and still think you need an 8 year warranty that will never be used.

The Honda probably generally costs a bit more than the Kia or Hyundai equivalent, but the idea is that you never have to use the warranty, whereas with the Korean makes you might be having a lot of warranty visits in that 100K mile warranty.

You pay a bit extra for the Honda quality, but you make it up in having no hassles or problems or costs in keeping it running (maintenance excluded of course).

To me, it would make more sense to buy a lesser brand and then get the extra 8 year warranty for peace of mind.

wayne21 · March 2013

You pay a bit extra for the Honda quality, but you make it up in having no hassles or problems or costs in keeping it running (maintenance excluded of course)......

I think honda does build quality cars, but they have their issues too. Ask a honda owner who was part of one of the class action suits over transmissions or the class action suit over premature brake wear or the current class action suit on the excess oil consumption on the 6 cyl VCM. With first time direct inject and the first use of cvt in the accord 4 cyl (first use of 6 speed auto in 6 cyl accord) I think investing in the extra warranty may be a very wise move.

ivan_99 · March 2013

I agree...$1,000 for an extra 3 years 40k miles seems expensive; especially if you "believe" in the manufacturer.

If the $'s are lying around doing nothing I'd feel more comfortable putting the $1k in a 5 year CD; ok....1.5% to maybe 2% isn't that great either, but at least you still have the funds to repair any problems (other than catastrophic fixes).

I must say I personally don't "believe" in any of the manufacturers...I've seen people at my office take their 10 year old F150 to 330k miles (basic maintenance and repair) and I've seen the early Honda Odyssey problems hit people multiple times. I've had a new Audi that was more reliable than a new Honda...

But I'm on my 3rd Honda now (in a long list of cars)...I have no love or hate for them. All cars cost a lot, depreciate a lot, always have something that is 'needed'; large or small...and nobody will give you want you want when its time to sell

I'd rather have $1k than spend it on 'what if'...but I suppose it's like any insurance...peace of mind (I could go on all day about medical health premiums)

stevedebi · March 2013

"... I personally don't believe it's necessary to purchase an extended warranty for a Honda, especially a 4cyl Accord. ..."

I purchased an extended warranty back when we bought my wife's 2002 Civic. It has paid for itself. We had a couple of electronic modules go bad, and something or other else I can't recall right now.

In general it may not be used, but I always want to have full repair coverage for the life of the loan.

m6user · March 2013

MT stated plainly in the article that the checklist they used to eveluate the cars contained none of the extra equipment they got on the Mazda so it wasn't given "extra points". The drivetrains, suspension, steering etc which was really what was being evaluated is the same on all trims of the Mazda. MT takes what it gets from the manufacturers to use for comparisions.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

When I bought my car last year I weighed in all the pros and cons of the extended warranty; which included past experiences with repairs.

Just an engine computer can cost upwards of $1500, and under many "powertrain" warranties are not covered, even though they control the powertrain. One repair on my last car involved replacing both the ECU and the BCU for a whopping $2200. It was covered under ext warr.

I spent $950 on my new cars' extended warranty (2012 Optima EX), and I look at it this way...

My car will be paid for in 5 years. Based on my current mileage, I will still have 5 more years and 40 k covered under the extended bump 2 bump warranty after it's paid for!! Also by then, I will have a new teen driver, who knows nothing about cars. Free roadside assistance, towing, and b-2-b coverage will comfort me every time she takes the car out. If I decide to sell it, it adds a lot of value to the new owner, and puts me in an improved negotiating position. (I have NEVER traded a car in. I always sell outright)

So, how much is peace of mind worth? It is all about managing risk, and for $950 bucks, it takes a heck of a lot of risk out of the equation. Works for me, but not for everybody. To each his own.

nyccarguy · March 2013

One repair on my last car involved replacing both the ECU and the BCU for a whopping $2200. It was covered under ext warr.

What was your last car?

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Yes, to each his or her own. Most advice you see these days is to pass on the extended warranty. For most people, it is generally not worth it, especially given how reliable most cars have become. But if adding $1000 - 1500 to the price of the car isn't a big deal to you, and you like the thought of that extra dose of security, then by all means. Most people will not have unexpected $2200 repairs on every car they buy, so even if you are unlucky enough to have it happen on every other one, you would still be better off putting the money in the bank, or at least breaking even. But when you buy the insurance, that money is gone. In other words, you have already paid for a $1000 repair whether or not you ever need it. I have owned nearly 30 vehicles, and the only time I bought an extended warranty, I never used it.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Grand Cherokee Laredo V8. Had 3 young kids with car seats...so it was that or banished to a minivan. The Jeep drove fantastic.....I still miss it's AWD with mostly rear drive bias, and the view out of the back was fantastic.

I bought a service contract on it and saved $7,700 in repairs, plus the contract amount of $1,200 was re-couped.

It's Electronics were s***. Transmission too. Great cross country driver though. Took it to Buffalo like 10 times. Never left me stranded. 15 MPG

[Deleted User] · March 2013

I would have bought a service contract on a Jeep too. Guess I was thinking more in terms of a Camry or Accord...

dieselone · March 2013

Guess I was thinking more in terms of a Camry or Accord...

I tend to agree. I'm not big on service contracts, the odds are usually against the person buying the contract, but the odds certainly change with the vehicle being purchased.

My in-laws bought an extended warranty on their 05 Camry and never used it. Heck it's at 190k miles and the only repair has been a wheel bearing.

OTOH, my dad did not buy an extended warranty on his 09 Accord EX-L v6 and he's had extensive engine problems well after his factory warranty expired and Honda has been covering all his problems while including new loaner vehicles for him to drive. He has 90k miles on it and Honda is going to essentially rebuild the engine free of charge.

gene84 · March 2013

I agree, it depends on what you buy. When purchasing my 2000 Honda Odessey Hondas and Toyotas had the lowest cost 100,000 mile/7-year extended warranties by far. My 2004 Toyota Prius has 213,000 miles and no problems (no belts, hoses, shocks, TX adjustment, nothing) except rear brakes at 200,000 miles because I forgot to release the emergency brakes. If you buy a Honda or Toyota you probably don't need an extended warranty.

mani_o · March 2013

I really love the look and features of the new Accord but I'm scared of the transmission in that car. Every time I tell someone I like it a family member or friend talks about how much they spent to get their tranny fixed. How does Honda get away with getting top reliability picks with so many cars having this issue? I get all cars have their problems but when I hear the same issue over and over from multiple sources, red flags start to go up with me.

suydam · March 2013

The new Honda has a brand new transmission so your friends are talking about something else. Regardless, Honda has an excellent reliability rating.

marcus216 · March 2013

I have had 6 (5 Accords and 1 Odyssey) Honda automobiles over the past 20 years or so and I put a minimum of 80,000 miles on each and never had a transmission problem of any kind. I just purchased a new 2013 Accord V6. And I am very happy with my choice. It rivals many luxury sedans in terms of comfort, features, amenities, and materials. Light years better than the last generation Accord.

huskerfan5 · March 2013

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1305_2013_honda_accord_sport_toyota_c- amry_se_2014_mazda6_grand_touring/

ivan_99 · March 2013

I think you take a risk with any new automobile purchase...but with that being said ALL are much more reliable (on average) than the previous generation.

A few years ago I was comparing JD power stats between Audi and Toyota. At that time you could buy a new Audi with the same reliability as a 5 year old Toyota; which in my mind was not too bad. Of course the newer Toyota was ranked even higher.

The Accord tranny is a CVT; I think their first (in NA anyway). There are a few designs out there and I'm not certain the difference between them. The only thing I've heard about the Accord CVT is what I've read (it was positive).

I've had a few friends all need new transmissions (Odyssey) but that didn't stop me from buying 2 Hondas after that. Both were 4 cyl (1 was a manual).

Nissan has offered CVTs for a few years...and have offered extended warranties after complaints regarding high repair costs after the warranty has ended.

I'm not certain of the very-long-term reliability/maintenance costs.

Originally CVTs were only in 4cyl cars; there was some issue with them handling torque. Audi was the 1st to offer a 6cyl with CVT and I don't know if they 'discovered' some design/technique to handle the torque.

I've always liked Honda's with 4cyl (which I purchased in Dec)...if I were to purchase today I'd do it with the CVT without worry...but I'm not basing that off of any facts...just gut-feeling

[Deleted User] · March 2013

I read the entire article, and I drove a new M-6. It's a great car. No doubt it handles better than others, including my Optima. The thing is ; that for $26,900 I can get a Optima Turbo. For the Mazda's GT price of $31k they better bolt on a turbo and dial up another 100 horsepower. Then the GT will be earned. Right now all the GT means is "Good Tires". I LOVE the 6.....why did Mazda not offer more zoom-zoom????

m6user · March 2013

One word = MPG. The diesel is coming this fall.

benjaminh · March 2013

Just got mine last night. Wonderful car so far. Almost everything is improved compared to our 2008 Accord EXL navi 5MT, which we're keeping.

The technology in this car is great, but a bit daunting to figure out.

Anyway, best wishes to all searching for a midize car. As most people here say, there are a lot of good choices.

Safe driving everyone...

crkyolfrt · March 2013

This might smart a little, cski, but just sharing with you out loud my thoughts when I read your post..Honestly...do you really think that when comparing vehicle potential reliability, refinement etc and overall satisfaction levels, it is a dead even comparo to put Kia up against Mazda? I will admit they have come a LONG way in the last few years...note I did not even say decade. That was deliberate and IMO, accurate. You can't even go back 10 years and say they were a force to be reckoned with!

And here is another reason my opinion may seem a little rigid and not very tolerant or complimentary to them yet..
I still read where many owners have been burned by legitimate wty claims, in circumstances where Kia or Hyundai refused because the owner hadn't been in for every little service stamp for brake inspection or some such other carp that few other brands...the ones with more average length warranties..don't have. If you are going to offer a 100000 mile wty (and of personal note and frustration here in Canada, that big 10/100000 is only 5/62000. They call it 5yr/100000km and have never yet been able to properly justify to anyone here who calls them on it, other than blow smoke up our collective butts, as to why the USA gets the better wty. We even pay a LOT more for the same car here.)..anyway, if you're going to offer what appears to be a really impressive wty and if it really IS truly marketed as good value, then why:

a) make it non-transferable?

and

b) make owners jump through unnecessary, (but usually expensive) maintenance hoops (or use other feeble excuses) to not cover their claim?

I think far too much emphasis is placed on their wty as the value-added perk that tips the scale in their favour (favor) when really, in so many other respects the rest of the car has very real annoyances that wreak of cheapness. Like poor audio systems. There is no excuse for this in this day and age. And rust! Gosh I have seen some Magentis' running around that actually look worse than a 2002 Protege 5, and as we all know, they did have an issue..

And while we are putting cards on the table here so-to-speak..do you think that it is a mere coincidence that Mazda always gets the handling nod, even when compared to their stiffest perceived competition..that being probably Honda?? Practically no matter which auto mag of the day tests, or how many years you wanna go back, for at least 20 years+, Mazda has always done something different when designing and building their suspensions. They deliver crisp responsiveness, but do it without making it harsh. Do you think that is easy (read cheap/more economical) to do, or do you think that the suspension components in both the Hyundai/Kia and the Mazda are of equal value/complexity? Hope you don't mind if I answer for you..no! No they're not! There usually are no free-rides when building and designing a car. If you're gonna be a copy-cat..then it takes years and years of c/cing to start getting it so right you actually deserve to be considered on equal ground when comparing..and in the real world..sometimes it takes 60-80k (or even more dramatically, 120000) miles to really show which one has the better staying power...but one of the big differences is...the Mazda (in this example) is gonna feel a whole lot better behind the wheel, enroute to getting to those 120000 miles in its backpocket and tighter still to boot..

Will Kia and Hyundai ever be good as Mazda is now? Probably, if they don't let happen to them what happened in 1989 era, and/or if Mazda screws up in some respects like they did in 02 to 06, then who knows, the Koreans could pass 'em..
But, IMO, they are in catch-up mode right now with Mazda/Honda/Nissan/Subaru and still will be for a good number of years yet..

Kia/Hyundai...(and the other Asians) if ya REALLY want to impress me..make your rust wty as rock solid as VW's is...

[Deleted User] · March 2013

I read an article about New York area taxi drivers think very highly of the Prius. Something about it being unkillable. I knew that an extended warranty on my Jeep was a good idea. Not so much on Accord. On my Kia? Yeah, for the right price. I still came out ahead. There was still a tiny bit of doubt about Kia's reliability.

I just had my 15k oil change Thursday. One of the rubber bump-stops on the trunk lid broke off and the center console latch needed adjusted/tightened due to heavy use. Both problems taken care of free.

explorerx4 · March 2013

A couple of weeks ago, I brought home a 2013 Fusion Titanium.
So far, I haven't even put 200 miles on it, but I hope to be able to provide more observations as I put some miles on it.
It's my second Fusion. I bought the first one in 2008 and had it for about 3 years.

m6user · March 2013

Mazda owner - "I love my car".

Hyndai/Kia owner - "I love my warranty".

Actually I think Hyundai/Kia make fine cars for the price. But you are right about the others. A number of years ahead in engineering.

backy · March 2013

I love both my Hyundais.

The ten-year warranty is nice too. But I haven't had to use it much at all on my 9-year-old Elantra (which is still in warranty after all that time, imagine that!) and not yet on my 2013 Sonata. Has that powerful yet economical 2.4L GDI engine. Let's see, when did the other mid-sizers have something like that available--was it 3+ years ago as on the Sonata, since the other automakers are so far ahead in engineering? No? Interesting...

Mazda owners HAVE to love their cars instead of their warranties since there isn't much to love on that score.

And they are fine cars, especially that new Mazda6. A puzzle why they don't sell better than they do.

m6user · March 2013

Just cause you've been lucky with your Hyundais doesn't make them representative.

That engine has a lot of horses but it doesn't seem to be any faster to 60 than the rest of the pack so it makes me wonder still about their HP ratings. Good cars though. I almost bought one when we bought our 2007 Mazda6 but the buttoned down steering/suspension just won out the day. Oh, and we didn't use our warranty either but it is gone now. :sick: However, knock on wood, we have had no problems whatsoever and it is going on 95k miles. :shades:

What I can't understand is that there is no thread on the Mazda6 forum for the 2014 and nobody over there is even talking about it. Mazda is advertsiing the heck out of the 3 and the CX-5 but I haven't seen one ad specifically about the 6. I think the new 6 matches or betters any other midsize sedan in just about any measurement except maybe the center display on the dash. It's a little small but from what I've read that may be one of the first changes they make on the 2015 or even when they bring the deisel over this fall.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Some people have good luck with X brand, and others don't. Some like Hondas, some Toyota. Owning a Kia doesn't mean I love ALL Kia's. The Optima looks good to me. Before I bought it, I did research and then made a choice. The new Accord, and the new M6 were not available in December 2011.

crkyolfrt · March 2013

I also think the Optima is a great looking car. And I also like its office..but of course the office only involves looking forward. The fun stops there unfortunately..

I still haven't seen a new 6 in person, but it sure does present well online.

I also think the new Accord is an aesthetic improvement over the last two versions.

I find it interesting that more than one manufacturer has reservations when offering bigger power with a CVT. The recurring theme seems to be that they must not stand up when presented with those extra levels of torque...Honda only offering it with the 4..Nissan's uses a belt with the 4, steel with the 6..etc

I commend Mazda for offering a proper 6 speed auto. Combined with a 4 cylinder should provide for good longevity too. And I hear it is quite a gem of a tranny..
Also impressive is that Mazda has managed the best fuel economy, (I presume due to utilizing the most torque at the lowest revs, compared to Honda's probably very sweet but much higher strung revver) by resisting the probable temptation to use a CVT in it also. Given its potential as it stands now, I would guess that had they taken that high CR Skyactive with its exceptional low rev torque numbers, and teamed it with a CVT they could have extracted even more impressive FE numbers. But wisely, they forfeited 1.5 to 2 and maybe even as much as 3 city mpg, and offered the auto equipped car with a proper driver's 6 sd auto. What a win win, cuz even so, they still retained the FE nod.

When it arrives with the diesel, and if Mazda decides to do an AWD with the diesel, but still offer that package in humbler trim levels, I could see it quickly rising to the top of people's; even those who were not even considering a mid-sizer, short list.

Furthermore, Mazda needs to be the first Asian brand to compete with VW's 12 year rust wty. What better way to attract back previously loyal customers who are smarting still over having one of the rusty ones? And gain new customers who love the idea of VW's great wty, but have more perceived confidence in the Mazda's (Asian) reliability potential..

m6user · March 2013

and if Mazda decides to do an AWD with the diesel

Why would that be such a great thing? VW doesn't do it and it would hurt FE which is part of the draw of diesel in the first place. It has front wheel drive which is OK in the snow belt and from a sporty driving aspect it doesn't seem like AWD and diesel go together that well.

crkyolfrt · March 2013

You are suggesting that diesel and sporty do not go hand in hand?

Let's enter a Rally..you in your gas job 2WD, me with my AWD diesel..I'll give you half the laps or mileage headstart, and all specks of my snow dust will still be grounded and aging before you are in sight of the finish line.

So the half laps headstart isn't enough you say? Ok, so you get AWD too, and we both leave at the same time...I'm still gonna clean the track up with ya in the diesel.

I have a feeling you've never driven a performance oriented AWD turbo diesel then? Boy do you have a treat to look forward to...and also would be surprised by the number of diesel owners who look for performance AND fuel economy. With the diesel you can have both. With gas if you have one, you know you aren't gonna have the other, especially when AWD is part of the equation.

And, I'll never understand why some people insist that FWD is just fine and nobody needs AWD..obviously if you don't get it, you don't and never have needed it!! What is so hard to grasp there?

And if you're going to have AWD, would it not be prudent to help offset the extra fuel costs of AWD by powering it with a diesel? I did not say only offer AWD with the diesel..sheesh... Again..what is so hard to grasp?
Surely you are not suggesting that you want your cake and eat it too? i.e. Have AWD without any fuel penalty whatsoever?

Sorry..I didn't know you were kidding.. :confuse:

edit- It has cost VW sales for not doing it. If AWD wasn't gaining popularity, it would not be found in greater vehicle configurations and price-points every year. What is missing though is the availability of it in lower trims, which I already covered. And don't under estimate the number of people who would like to have AWD, but don't for these three common reasons..
- it is an extra dollar hit..always
- it does cost a fuel penalty whether burning oil or gas
- that dollar hit is compounded by manufacturers foolishly (and greedily for the customers that can anti up anyway) positioning the diesel and/or AWD options in only the highest trim levels which are already at a premium price

..so many opt out before even getting outta the gate..

m6user · March 2013

Sorry, don't agree. For the Mazda6 application it would be expensive and a fuel hit when high MPG is plainly the direction Mazda is going with the new Mazda6.

No, I haven't raced a performance turbodiesel and have no desire to, just like 99.9% of the people that would be buying the new Mazda6. I don't think Mazda will see a business case for a diesel AWD model. I didn't say that NOBODY would want one or that there was some law against it, just that IMO not enough would want one to justify them marketing it. Could be wrong but just don't see it.

I'm not underestimating demand in the market for AWD but I'm not overestimating it either. Most of the AWD applications on sedans are on luxury brands where a little extra cost and a couple of MPGs are not that big of deal and they are usually RWD biased except for Audi. Only two out of all the mainstream brands offer AWD on their family sedans. And we are talking family sedans here, not race cars.

BTW, could you please tone it down a little on the "hard to grasp" stuff? Just trying to have a cordial discussion here.

huskerfan5 · March 2013

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2013/03/14/069187-2014-mazda6-named-finalist-- for-world-car-design-year.html

backy · March 2013

Yes, I must just be lucky with my 3 Hyundais, I'm sure all the rest of them are horribly unreliable. :P I must have also been unlucky with my 2000 Mazda 626, which started self-destructing after about 8 years, and my Mazda MPV, which started self-destructing after 7 years. I'm sure all other Mazdas are totally reliable, long-term.

I saw the 2014 Mazda6 at the auto show today and it's a stunner, especially in the two colors they had on the floor, a steel blue and red. IMO the top car in the class now just based on interior/exterior styling, and the folks at MT obviously think it drives pretty well too. Bigger than I need in my next car, but if I were looking for a new mid-sizer I'd definitely have the base model with 6MT at the top of my list, along with the Accord LX with the 6MT.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Lol.

crkyolfrt · March 2013

Ya, ok, sorry..

If I can nutshell my thinking..

I see this as an opportunity..for someone..

I've said before that even Kia or Hyundai should venture into those waters..the waters being..an AWD car, not SUV..that would provide car-like handling and ride and economy, which you can't get any SUV to match. And the best way to mitigate or offset the extra running expense of AWD (which is also a torque robber) is to go diesel. It just makes so much much sense to me. But to offset the extra cost of diesel AND the AWD hit, they need to offer it in a base type car, which I just can't imagine how that is so hard for these guys to imagine?

NOBODY is doing it over here, unless you count Subaru and it doesn't look like they are going to do the diesel thing either, so people are still left for the extra per mile running costs, and noticeably lethargic urge cuz the gas jobs just don't excel when extra work has to be done.

It's wide-open mkt for one of 'em..I feel it in my bones.

While off topic, I've also said that Kia/Hyundai should be the first to offer a diesel 2WD and 4x4 small p/u..we KNOW there is a mkt for that and cuz they're dragging their heels..probably Ford will be the first? (using...ironically enough..probably a Mazda engine) since Dodge is already probably getting their V6 diesel to mkt in a half ton but full sized p/u.
But I digress..people can't buy what isn't offered..

m6user · March 2013

Looks like some Hyundai owners can't take some good natured kidding.

No car is perfect, no brand is perfect by any means. I'm sure sooner or later something will break on our old Mazda and even your Hyundais will probably have something go wrong. Heck, in the old days, by 95k miles, most cars would have had many problems already. It's a testament to just how good all these cars have gotten in the last 10 years or so.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

1) The new Nissan Altima 3.5 and the Pathfinder 3.5 both have CVT's.

2) The Optima is offered with a diesel in Europe. A 1.7 with 134 hp and 244 lb-ft. There is talk of offering a higher power version in the US. (160hp).

backy · March 2013

I can take kidding; it's when facts are ignored in deference to hearsay and generalizations not based on fact that I scratch my head.

Actually had something break on my 9-year-old Elantra... HVAC fan appears to be kaputt. Took it in today for replacement. That's it as far as non-wear parts failing in nine years. Not too bad IMO, especially given that car was designed before Hyundai got onto its quality bent.

tundradweller1 · March 2013

Just wanted to comment on drivability of these two.
We own a 2011 Sonata 2.0T. First off it's a great car over all without going into all the details. The one thing that I cannot stand is the steering. From day one it had the infamous "left pull". After many attempts by the dealer to align and rotate and exchange the tires it came down to replacing the front struts. They also preformed a update to the steering. Just drove it to and from Chicago, while it still tracks straight the over all feel is still numb, unresponsive. Yes it has electronic steering and lack of feel is a common complaint with these systems.
I have driven 3 different 2014 Mazda 6's and it is far more engaging, especially when pushed hard.
Also both have firm/sport suspensions but the 6 is much less harsh over road seams etc. The 18" low profiles do not help the Sonata's ride but even with 16" rims and snow tires it does not match the more composed Mazda. Granted Mazda has had a couple more years to develop the 6 and I hear a re-fresh is coming from Hyundai.

benjaminh · March 2013

I read somewhere that an all-new Sonata is due in early 2014.

Mazdas are known for good steering feel. I think they use an unusual hybrid system of electric and hydraulic.

Just got a new 2013 Accord EXL, which also has electric steering in this generation. It doesn't have quite the feel of our 2008 Accord, which has hydraulic steering, but still it's pretty darn good. And the handling is actually slightly better on the new Accord than on the old one imho.

On one of our daily commutes, a c. 14 mile drive of c. 70% hwy and 30% city, we seem to be getting about 35 mpg on the 2013 Accord. With the 2008 Accord making the same drive we usually got about 27 mpg. Don't know if that's a fluke or not, but if we're really getting 8 more mpg that's a big jump, esp. considering the new car is pretty much just as big on the inside.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

EPS has been numb on almost every review I have read in the past year. Including the new Cayman and the new 3 series, which is heracy inthose circles. It is going to take more than one model year to get it just right.

huskerfan5 · March 2013

http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-test-2014-mazda6-vs-2013-honda-ac- cord-sedan/

tundradweller1 · March 2013

The 2014 Mazda 6 has only electric PS. The Transmission is a hybrid, maybe that's what you were thinking of? The Sonata is a great car, with the twin scroll turbo when you floor it you better have it pointed in the right direction :surprise: I just wish the steering wasn't so flighty.
I did test drive the new Accord EX and Sport, nice cars. For myself I am leaning towards the new 6 for my next long term ride.

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