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Consumer Reports breaks the problems down further, so you can see the reliablilty rating for each car by categories such as Engine, Transmission, Body, Accesories, etc.
I personally (that means this is an opinion) feel the complete opposite as Consumer Reports uses self reported data from a subset of the population. If I was living in a vacuum and had no other source of information for a purchase decision, I would go with CR (they were great when picking appliances), put I *personally* don't have a lot of faith in their automotive reliability rankings.
However, CR has it's own problems, as well. Relying on self-reporting and evaluation of "significant problems" that may have occured as much as 12 months ago is just one.
I actually give the most weight to the expected costs. This can be determined by pricing identical extended warranties from a single vendor for each model. Edmunds also bases their predicted repair costs on this. The differences between models of mid-size sedans are usually quite small.
Oh I don't know. I bought a 2006 Civic which was totally redesigned that year and it has NOT been "even better". I have had quite a few un-Honda like issues so apparently you cannot automatically "bank" on Honda for that.
I don't know about anybody else, but a difference of 1.5 "problems" during the warranty period is not going to sway me one way or the other. So what this confirms (for me) is that "reliability" is, for the most part, a non-issue in choosing a mid-size sedan.
The typical range in expected repair costs of maybe $500 over 100,000 miles is also not going to influence my choice of midsize sedans.
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This from my post 1724, and I thought it answered your priority question pretty directly.
More to the point is that, I probably don't buy the Accord or the Camry and lean towards the Altima (with that great V6 naturally). A car that does a relatively decent job holding its value (but not up to Camcord standards) and is admittedly short of Camcord type fit and finish - the redesigned 07 is a big improvement. Given that I believe that overall it falls short of Honda/Toyota then why is an Altima on the top of list? It's simple - experience - have put something in the neighborhood of 6-700k miles on my last 4 of them and not a one of them has ever had any problems, and that 3.5 V6 is outstanding. I did find the CVT disconcerting on the new Altima, but my wife loved it - it does make driving even less involving then even the 4 spd automatic in my current 3.5, so much so that I think that anybody that would even consider a stick will have no part of it.
Remind your family of that when your VW :lemon: leaves you stranded on the highway...
"Hey kids, sorry about your frostbite...but it's only a few more problems than a more reliable sedan would have had."
Even if the problems are minor, just be glad YOU have time to waste with the pompous VW dealership, and enjoy the rot-gut Max-Swill-House coffee.
agreed - if I keep up with routine maintainence, I expect at least 100k troublefree miles out of any vehicle I would buy although I will stay away from those cars that are seemingly overinfected with electronic doodads. BMW/MBs problems, IMO, have very little to do with anything other than overinfestation of technology, from an objective perspective - they both build great cars otherwise.
Then why can't a Fusion/Sonata/Mazda owner state they think thier sedan is the best in its class?? This is not an "outlandish" statement either.. :sick:
Same way I guess McDonalds sells more burgers than Burger King I guess..
* What is the sales per dealer? (Per-store sales is an important metric in the sales business. Toyota has more dealers than Honda.)
* How many are sold to fleets? (Many more Camrys are sold to fleets than Accords.)
I thought I'd test drive the 07 Altima this weekend. I've only sat in it and played with the controls a bit, but I agree - what a nice ride.
I like it much more than the Maxima - what's up with that funky Maxima grill BTW?
I think the high end Altima cannibalizes the Maxima sales.
No comments? Looks like Ford is doing pretty darn well.. I'm going to have to keep this link around and spread the word. :shades:
Both have the advantage of buyers walking on the lot, look at some colors, and saying "I'll take that one" more than most other makes.
We also considered the Hyundai Sonata but one dealer in our town owns the franchises for Hyundai, Mazda, Honda and Nissan while Sherwood Ford, Lincoln, Mercury has a sterling reputation and has been excellent to deal with. We own a 1997 Thunderbird and a 2000 Focus station wagon in addition to the 2007 Fusion.
Eventually, all cars end up going back to the dealer for something, even if it is just oil changes or tire rotations. The dealer's excellent reputation was a big factor in our purchase of a Fusion. The bold, distinctive styling also played a large part.
We've only had the car six months and 3,420 miles but, so far (knock on wood) it's yet to have a single squeak, rattle or thump. There has been zero recalls and not a single Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) has applied to our car. We sure hope this trend continues for the years to come.
bdkinnh, "BMW 5-Series Sedans" #11855, 6 Jun 2007 10:08 am
While I pretty much stay away from subjective styling issues - to me, it is one 'pretty' car.
It has the same interior volume as the 2007 Accord (within 1 cubic ft).
I has a better price, better fuel economy, great ride, less prestige and unknown reliability and probably lower resale value.
Safety wise it's got 6 airbags, ABS, EBD, etc, etc, even tire pressure monitors.
Yeah but they are all optional (at least ABS/EBD) and TPM is going to be standard for everyone in the next 2 years as a federal mandate, IIRC.
kd - of course, and likely in direct correlation to the the complexities of the car in the first place. BMWs problem is not that they don't build the best cars in the world, it is more related to the systems they build into those cars, required to make them that way.
Murphy's law - the more complicated anything is, the more likely it is to break - A Toyota Avalon should never be as reliable as a Corolla, a Lincoln MKZ should never be as reliable as a Fusion etc etc.. There are exceptions to all 'rules', of course - but as a generality, something that is true in a whole lot more things than just cars?
Then why can't a Fusion/Sonata/Mazda owner state they think thier sedan is the best in its class?? This is not an "outlandish" statement either..
Uhh, they can last I checked . We each buy our own "best-in-class."
This did actually come into play in my case. My old car (same make and model) was smaller and lighter, and a 4cyl was the only option. 140hp was adequate most of the time (could have used more power on the highway). 12 years later the car had grown considerably and a V6 was available. The fact that I could get 100 more hp, and still get the same mileage as the old car, made it a no-brainer for my driving style. I picked the extra power, thegrad picked the mileage. We both got what we wanted, so it's all good.
Bingo. We each picked what suited us.
The only time I ever need more power in my 130 hp '96 Accord is passing above 60 MPH. Around town, it is perfectly adequate. In my 166 hp '06, I've never "needed" more. It's so quiet relative to my 96, I don't mind winding it up to 5,500 RPM if I really feel compelled to take off.
I got better power AND better mileage! (although 70-80 horsepower less than elroy). My highway mileage is 8 MPG better in my new car thanks to iVtec and a 5-speed Auto!
and thats what it all boils down to. Anybody who wants to proclaim any car the best nees to keep in mind, they are in a pretty small group. Even the best selling midsize sedan (the camry) only has about 15% of the midsize market. So, for every 100 people who buy a midsize sedan, 85% don't think the camry is the best.
Price has to be included in my opinion, if not, we blur the "class" issue.
I mean, the guy who had a 4.0 GPA looks like the best in class, while in fact, the guy with a 3.5 GPA and lots of extra-curriculars and out-of-class work experience gets the job done better. (showing my age here!)
I say that in a roundabout way to say, it may be instinctive to say the car with the best numbers is tops, while in fact, when it comes to getting the job done, others do it better, having fun along the way (just like in school!).
I think (again "I") that best-in-class is still individual.
Most automakers have done this for years. Bigger, revised versions of engines with more power and the same (or improved) fuel economy.
You say it is the "highest selling car" and "regarded as the best". The highest selling car can be easily defined, but is not always going to be "regarded as best". If it is not, then which is the "class leader"?
If price does not matter, then maybe we need to consider whether midsize sedans like the Audi S6 ($72,000) or BMW M5 ($83,000) out-class cars like the Camry and Accord.
That depends on other limitations of the class specifications. If you include those cars above then you are including mid-sized luxury sedans which can be, and often are, considered to be in another class themselves.
Those lines can be pretty blurred though. Often when mags do comparos they make up classes that we don't often realize are even there. Things like V6 powered AWD mid-sized sedans under $30k. That's a small group, but it can be a "class".
I see your point and also see how this line of discussion could end up in an endless loop! :surprise:
Oh its definitely not worth it, but man, its fun. I'm glad he is happy with his mods and that they woke up his ride
Nah, I'm pretty sure it was just operator error. He should have paid more attention to what he was doing and spent less time painting those "uh oh" signs for when he fell off a cliff.
But his business card said he was a "Super Genius".
The correct answer is there is no correct answer; just as you have stated. Our 2007 SEL AWD 3.0-liter V6 is rated at 221 horsepower. The V6s in Camrys, Accords, Auras, Sonatas, Altimas are rated higher, I believe.
We find that the Fusion is fast enough, powerful enough for our needs but the gas mileage is really terrible, 14.8 mpg in all-city driving. In retrospect, the 160-horsepower I4 engine would have been adequate for the type of driving we do, 95 percent in-city travel with only two or three highway trips a year.
It will be interesting to read other forum members comments on how much horsepower (get up and go) is enough.
There are luxury cars with a lot more hp (400 and more), and I don't think any of the owners are complaining that they have too much power. I would not complain either.