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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    I think it is the hills. The stretch between West Springfield to the State Dept in DC. has some pretty major hills. Actually the whole route is up and down....and I don't think the downhill stretches make up for it. With the cruise on, it makes the tranny downshift, sometimes two gears in order to maintain speed. Heck, here is the route: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=home&daddr=23rd+and+F+street+NW+DC

    I can't wait to get going on vacation, as the more rural parts of my trip are very flat.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Grad-

    What Hyundai did was lie and fudge the EPA test. The SAE ratings change does not signify a lie by the manufacturer, but rather different guidelines to rate engines by. There is a difference.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited May 2013
    I would avoid using cruise on hills severe enough to ask for more than one downshift..actually even one downshift FTM. That is certaiinly one reason behind the low number. But given your description and coasting down those same hills, it does sound especially low.

    On a different note...

    "Potbelly Sandwich Shop"
    "Magic Gourd"
    "Sizzling Express"

    too funny..

    If I lived in your neighborhood, why do I have this sense I'd put weight on?? :sick:

    Hey..cski...maybe that's where your fuel mileage has gone?? lol ;)
  • I assume those are fine french dining establishments in my area, which of course I frequent daily. There is a classical harpist at "Magic Gourd" from 11 to 2. LMAO.
  • That's it exactly.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    That's not really the route you drive right?
    Most cars now shut the fuel off when coasting, so shifting into neutral doesn't really buy you anything.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Sorry man....not following your logic.

    Yes, it is the real route I drive.
    No, cars do not shut off fuel in neutral, especially with a manumatic transmission. I have never even heard of a regular ICE car that shuts off fuel at idle/neutral, except for hybrids.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    He said (implied) coasting in gear not neutral. Cars shut off fuel while coasting in gear.
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    I have a '12 Sonata 2.0 T...average mid 20s for my mix of driving around town... and have gotten as high as 37 on the highway.

    Ive read plenty on the poor mileage from both 2.0 and 2.4 owners- so dont take this as me saying its not happening...Im just providing an example of where its not.

    For those that have the turbo- inconsistent/out of spec spark plug gapping has been discovered for many that have that model. Better mileage and performance resulted once that was taken care of.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    Interesting info on the 2.0T plug gap. The better half's Sonata has over 78,000 miles so I may just put a fresh set of plugs in it.
    A friend has the Hyundai Atenza. The Dealership is tracking his mileage and loading a gas credit card to make up the difference between claimed and actual mileage.
  • A Hyundai what? What is an Atenza? Do you mean Azera? In foreign markets the Mazda 6 is called the Atenza. Lol.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    As Dudleyr posted, fuel shuts off when coasting, not the engine.
    I found your route unusual since you said you drive from West Springfield, which is in Massachusetts and your map started in West Hartford Connecticut.
    Also, the Berlin Turnpike has tons of lights and the interstate is only a few miles east of it.
    Personally, I take I-84 to I-81 to 15 to 270, so mainly through PA.
    It's longer, but a better ride. I try to stay away from I-95 and the NYC-DC corridor.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I have done part of that route many times - Bethlehem PA to DC. 40 mpg or so in my Scirocco, and 10 mpg (or less) in my '73 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham with a 472 ci V-8 (7.7 liters). Weighed as much as a Suburban and was 2 feet longer. I could lay down in the trunk either direction. And this was back when the national speed limit was 55, so I was not going very fast. I imagine that Caddy would get about 5 mpg at 80 mph - you could just about see the fuel gauge moving.

    So While 26 mpg is not very good for a modern 4 cyl sedan it could be a lot worse. ;)

    Switching to that Scirocco was what opened my eyes to good mpg.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Obviously there is a map mistake, but I checked the link, and my route comes up (for me) Hmmm.

    My commute is from Burke/W Springfield VA to Washington DC. About 18 miles each way. I have never been to Connecticut or Massachusetts!!
  • It looks like all of us have a different map show up based on our own input w/ google maps. It is the only thing that makes sense of all these different routes you guys are seeing. Sorry. Link backfired on me! :confuse: :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    That explains a lot! You know what they say, 'It takes a computer to really screw things up'. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited May 2013
    What a difference 5 years and a bunch of gvt intervention can make. My bros had a 68 Sedan De Ville, same 472 but obviously much less encumbered. I used to borrow it at times and used to get 21 Imp so corrected to about 17.7 US. Mind you this was at 50 to 55 and a pretty gentle foot. I loved that car..just beautiful lines. I liked it so much I sought out a 69 for myself a few years later. Oddly that one never did better than a little under 20 Imp. And of course the 69 didn't have the same handsome look up front as the 68. Boy would they ever haul tho if you threw mileage out the window. The 68 was quick to overheat I remember when trying on Dodge 440's of the era on a famous uphill climb around here. But it gave the two in the 440 such a run for their money I'm sure they must still remember the 'almost' spanking by the big Caddy..

    Talk about old memories...sigh...the Scirocco. Absolutely loved (still do) the lines on that car. I couldn't afford one so ended up with a brand new Dasher of the same era. To this day I remember spanking a Trans Am (guy I used to work with on a welding line building Chevy vans years ago, had one) at a light one day when we both knew we were gonna give 'er. He passed me at about 35 or 40 mph. I betcha he still remembers that day too. Lotsa fun..
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    edited May 2013
    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=home&daddr=23rd+and+F+street+NW+DC

    See the "saddr=home" part? That tells Google Maps to start at your home address (that you told Google at some point). When I click the link it starts at my home address in the Chicago suburbs. If you do a fresh map link using your home address instead of the Home identifier it should be the same for everyone.

    Edit: I recommend you not use your actual home address as you probabl don't want to post that to a public forum. Use your city, zip code, or the address of the local police department :shades: instead.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    Ha! yeah Azera, the "luxury" model Sonata. Some of these car names are getting as weird as new prescription drug titles. ;)
    I ordered four new Denso plugs from Rock Auto. Will bore everyone with my plug gap findings.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    OH I loved that Scirocco. Mine was a white '80. 1,950 lbs of fun. Incredible manual steering, giant single wiper blade, golf ball shifter, VDO gauges. I was very sad when it sold.

    Back on topic, I do find it amazing that my new Accord weighs nearly 1,300 lbs more, has 2.5 times the hp, much more interior room, many more features and still gets better mpg. Of course you could switch it up and wonder what kind of mpg they could get from a 2,000 lb vehicle using today's tech.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Good idea. No, I used the address a home that I sold a few years back.

    The point was made that my drive, while all "highway", requires me to merge onto three different major roads and the commute is very hilly. Now that I thin about it, there is no way for me to get a true highway figure unless I go on a real highway trip.
    .
    I just booked a beach house rental 400 miles away down near Emerald Island, NC. This trip should give me a true highway figure, as the roads closer to the coast are all very flat. Heck, I am looking forward to the drive and the MPG test more than the vacation! I guess I am a true gear-head. :)
  • It's too bad they don't sell the 3rd gen models here. There is a really cool 2nd Gen red one nearby. I will snap a photo for ya.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Your point (and mine) still stand. At least Hyundai has attempted to make reparations for the error of their ways (however intentional or not). Eyes are now on Ford for the hybrid vehicles not living up to the standards set.

    Full disclosure: I drive a 2009 Sonata, GLS V6. Rated 19/29. I drive 90% interstate; my mpg average is 31.1 as of lunchtime today. I do limit my speeds to 75 mph or so (highest limit in Alabama is 70), we do have some hills.

    I'm not a sold-out Hyundai guy. My prior two vehicles were Accords. I'm actively car-shopping right now; Altima, Accord, and Ram 1500 Pentastar. No Hyundai is on my shopping list - juts wanted to let you know I'm not batting for Hyundai - but the numbers argument is a moot point to me. If you're buying your car because of a 40mpg rating over a 38 mpg rating, you might be too boring to be my friend. ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Awesome! No really I understand. I liked the car because of its looks and the warranty. The good gas mileage was just a bonus, and coming out of a V8 SUV that got 14MPG....25mpg is great....just not what was advertised.

    A recent Motortrend tested a Prius vs a CMax. They chose the CMAX hands down So, the authors neighbor asked him which one he should buy, and he told him the C-MAX. So, his dips*** neighbor went out and bought the Prius anyway, over 2mpg. Now that guy cannot be my friend. He asked a professional car reviewer what he should buy and then doesn't take the advise? What an a**.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Actually real world the Prius kills the cmax in mileage. Ford has really dropped the ball. The V-6 Accord gets the same mpg as the 1.6 liter ecoboost Fusion. The new fords have a nice driving feel, but they are horrible on gas. The EPA should look into their numbers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    Cmax has a lot more power than the Prius.
    EPA tests are short and Cmax can run longer on battery.

    How about a history lesson?

    2004 Prius Mileage

    2005 mileage same car

    What changed and why?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • The interior of the Prius V is atrocious. First, the I-P looks like a 1989 SOUNDESIGN stereo. Instrument Panel in the middle? Instead of right in front of me? It's just a cheap flat slab of a thing with mismatched buttons and readouts that look designed by committee. The materials are inferior, it has virtually no sound deadening materials. It cannot compete in any real way with the C-MAX in driving dynamics. It is one of the worst handling vehicles on the market. To it's credit it has a very durable drivetrain. I have heard reports from NYC cab drivers Assn that they are "bulletproof", but for close to $36,000 there is NO WAY I would ever buy one.

    Does the Prius get 2 MPG better than C-MAX in SOME categories? Yes, but there are two different C-Max models, and 3 different Prius models. It depends on your driving. These vehicles are designed to excel in mixed driving, not 90% highway where the electric motor and the batteries are just DEAD WEIGHT.
    I don't think Ford dropped the ball at all. They have stepped up to the plate.
    Is the 1.6 Ecoboost underpowered in a 3600 lb car? Yes for around metro DC. I posted a hundred times a few months back that the motor will be overworked. Not a good combo for durability, IMO.
    Also, if I hear the word "Ecoboost" one more time I will scream.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    My sister had a Gen II Prius and has a Prius V, both of which I have driven and ridden in multiple times.
    For the most part, I agree with your assessment of the V, but it does drive tighter than a Gen II.
    If you like the 'triple crown' of noise, engine tire and wind, it's great.
    Basically, on the highway, it's good for people who are hard of hearing.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    I would rather walk than drive a Prius.....
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I would rather walk than drive anything. I drive when it is too far to walk.

    Judging by our collective waistlines I am clearly in the minority though. ;)
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited May 2013
    I would rather walk than drive a Prius.....
    ME TOO. We have good friends who own a 2006 prius - 76 hp on the gas; 67 hp on the battery. THIS for a nearly 4,000 lb car. Absolutely gutless! We refuse to ride in it as we see it as an accident waiting to happen. Although there is no shortage of them on the road, I would not dare to merge onto the interstate in one of them. Aside from that, I believe it has the absolute cheapest, hardest plastic of any vehicle I've been in (except the toyota venza).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Really? The Venza has cheap plastic? With the 3.5 liter V6; (268 HP) the Venza is the only Toyota product that I think is attractive. It rides on the Camry platform, as does the Lexus ES 350 and the RX-350/400h)

    I have never bothered to look at the interior, since I don't need the space of a wagon/crossover. On the other hand, I like a lot of Lexus products. The IS 250/350 looks a lot like my car. Anyway, have a good weekend all, and please don't take it personally if I slam a car you like! I love to argue. :shades:

    PS: Don't forget the roses and chocolate for the moms on Sunday!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    First - the Prius is nowhere near 4,000 lbs. Edmunds lists it as 2,890 for that year. With 110 hp combined it does fine. 26 lbs / hp. Certainly not a sports car, but plenty safe for being on the roads. How does it compare to some other vehicles on the road? How about a nice brawny Chevrolet Suburban from 1995 with a 5.7 liter V-8. Well it has 200 hp and weighed 5,700 lbs so it has 28.5 lbs / hp - worse than the Prius. Yet I doubt many who drove those beasts at the time thought they were too slow to be on the road.

    What about crash test results? Does the small size of the Prius hurt it? Look at the two links below and see that the Prius scores a Good while the 2003 Ford F-150 (most popular vehicle in the country) got one of the worst scores ever recorded. Look at the two vehicles and see which you would rather be in after the same crash.

    Ford Truck
    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=7&seriesid=327

    Prius
    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=641&seriesid=566

    Must not have owned a car in the 70's. Full sized v-8 engines barely had over 110 hp back then. Now that was slow.

    No I don't own a Prius, but I would gladly trade some of my cars speed for some extra mpg. You can't hardly buy a midsized sedan these days that won't go 130 mph, and most will go much faster (if ungoverned).
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Not only is the venza full of cheap, hard shiny plastic - the fit and finish (particularly the dash) is very poor. Stop at any toyota dealership and look at a venza dash, then look at any other new car on the lot and ask yourself which has the worst fit and finish.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    Comparing a specific test with a pre 04 F150 and an 04 Prius isn't exactly fair.
    Both were redesigned for '04.
    My real world experience with an '00 Expedition is that they are pretty tough, even with only 3 wheels after a collision.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    I know I'm replying to myself, but I don't want to completely trash the 'V'. It's roomy and gets pretty good mileage.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    Well, the 1998 Suburban has 255 HP and 310 ft lbs (horsepower still sucks for a 350 ci ice) and the 2001 Suburban had a 5.3 putting out 285 and 330 lb ft

    The Prius 5, 3365 lbs was the model compared to the C-MAX (3659 lbs), and Toyota really didn't want Motortrend to do it. Also, the C-MAX is rated 47/47, and the Prius 44/40. how does either do in the real world during Motortrend's review? Prius 39.4, C-MAX, 37.3. However, in low speed, city driving the author did say that the C-MAX comes out on top with it's larger battery and motor. The C-MAX won the comparison.
    The comparison is in Motortrend April 2013 on page 68.

    In short, I like sedans!! The Prius is my polar opposite... Maybe even my car's nemesis! If I needed to get 40 mpg, I would buy a Passat TDI or wait for the Mazda 6 2.2 TD with 173 hp and 310 lb ft!!
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    I would rather walk in a full body cast than drive a Prius. I want power and room. I would like to squash a Prius beneath my Highlander Limited V6 AWD.
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    edited May 2013
    If you are going to spend 30 large on a sedan, this is a interesting consideration. Watch the video....

    http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/motortrend-praises-new-mercedes-benz.html
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited May 2013
    I would rather walk in a full body cast than drive a Prius. I want power and room.

    Not much room in a full body cast :confuse:

    I would like to squash a Prius beneath my Highlander Limited V6 AWD.

    Really? Wow. Aside from the obvious questionable rationale behind this proclamation, it also has quite the disconnect. It happens right here: "beneath my Highlander V6 AWD".
    Pretty sure it would leave a mark..
    :(
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Must not have owned a car in the 70's. Full sized v-8 engines barely had over 110 hp back then. Now that was slow.

    My first new car was a 1974 Plymouth Duster - 225 slant 6. Nowhere near the power of today's cars, but cars at that time were similar. Driving that duster - or the gutless prius - in TODAY's world would not be enjoyable. As a rule of thumb, today's cars just run so much better. And yes, the 110 hp is the combined "potential", but it usually runs on battery. And I meant to type 3,000 lbs - was a typo for the 4,000 lbs. Sorry about that. But I can tell you that when I took my toyota in for a warranty repair and was offered a prius (having already been in our friend's prius) I refused it. They gave me a corolla for the day, but if they didn't I'd have called my wife to come pick me up instead of driving the prius.

    I would rather walk in a full body cast than drive a Prius. I want power and room. I would like to squash a Prius beneath my Highlander Limited V6 AWD.

    Very well stated! I will stick with my belief that it is gutless and has an incredibly cheap interior (a toyota hallmark). I truly felt it was nothing more than a glorified golf cart.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, it's a compact, and with a couple of options in the same price range as several other high-end compacts... also in the same price range as loaded-to-the-gills mid-sized sedans like those being discussed here. :)
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    Nope not a compact car. Maybe actually do a little research?

    CLA :
    Exterior Measurements

    WIDTH5 ft. 10 in. (70 in.) HEIGHT4 ft. 8.6 in. (56.6 in.)
    LENGTH15 ft. 2.3 in. (182.3 in.) GROUND CLEARANCE0 ft. 3.9 in. (3.9 in.)
    FRONT TRACK5 ft. 0.9 in. (60.9 in.) REAR TRACK5 ft. 0.8 in. (60.8 in.)
    WHEEL BASE8 ft. 10.3 in. (106.3 in.)

    Interior Measurements

    FRONT HEAD ROOM37.0 in. FRONT SHOULDER ROOM56.0 in.
    REAR HEAD ROOM35.6 in. REAR SHOULDER ROOM53.2 in.

    Mazda 6:

    Exterior Measurements

    WIDTH6 ft. 0.4 in. (72.4 in.) HEIGHT4 ft. 9.1 in. (57.1 in.)
    LENGTH15 ft. 11.5 in. (191.5 in.) GROUND CLEARANCE0 ft. 6.4 in. (6.4 in.)
    FRONT TRACK5 ft. 2.4 in. (62.4 in.) REAR TRACK5 ft. 2 in. (62 in.)
    WHEEL BASE9 ft. 3.4 in. (111.4 in.)

    Interior Measurements

    FRONT HEAD ROOM38.4 in. FRONT HIP ROOM56.1 in.
    FRONT LEG ROOM42.2 in. FRONT SHOULDER ROOM57.1 in.
    REAR HIP ROOM56.1 in. REAR HEAD ROOM37.1 in.
    REAR LEG ROOM38.7 in. REAR SHOULDER ROOM55.5 in.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I did do research.

    CLA length: 182.3 inches long

    Compacts:

    Sentra: 182.1 inches long
    Dart: 183.9
    Mazda3: 180.9
    Cruze: 181.0

    Mid-sized cars:

    Accord: 191.4 inches long
    Camry: 189.0
    Sonata: 189.8
    Optima: 190.7
    Mazda6: 191.5
    Passat: 191.6
    Altima: 191.5
    Fusion: 191.7
    Malibu: 191.5

    Clearly the CLA is in the compact size class, not the mid-sized class. See for example (emphasis mine):

    Mercedes just announced official pricing for its new CLA compact car, which will start at $29,900.

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/01/mercedes-cla-priced-in-commercial-sta- rts-at-29900.html
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    EPA cubic ft determines compact or midsize. The cla is compact.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Not for this discussion, it doesn't. Otherwise we'd be discussing small cars that have mid-sized (by EPA regs) interiors here. There's quite a few of those. And there's mid-sized cars that have large-car interiors, by EPA numbers. But they are generally considered mid-sized cars, not large cars.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Look at overall length, wheelbase, etc. The CLA is marketed by the manufacurer as a compact and is almost carbon copy of other compact car dimensions. Wishful thinking that it's a midsize auto. Besides, this discussion has always been about non-luxury midsize cars like those listed above and on the right of this page.

    But, just for grins, the CLA is an interesting car.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    First, thanks tundradweller for the video. It's a nice looking car, and the engine power is adequate for the car's weight. I noticed that the base turbo 2.0 liter is aimed right at VW/AG and it's GTI and A4 2.0T variants. To be honest though I would expect more power for a 2.0 turbo, and Mercedes knows it too as they are going to offer a 250 HP version and a 320 HP version, all using the same engine. There is talk of a 358 HP AMG model. Here is a link to the Motortrend review. (It is the exact same car as in the video) http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1303_2014_mercedes_benz_cla250_first_- drive/photo_06.html

    The car is too small for me. I noticed the 5' 11' reviewers head was almost touching the headliner. What I really think is it would be perfect for the ladies. I can almost guarantee it will be a hit with them. The interior is VERY nice, although it has one too many vents, and the yellow/green stitching is only available on a special edition car.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Member Posts: 74
    That's odd, when I first read about the CLA it was touted as the new mid-size from Benz. Oh well, my bad. More like a Elantra size than Sonata.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    My first car was the 1978 Plymouth Trail Duster. My dad bought it new and gave it to me in 1987. It was white with red and orange stripes, with matching white/red/orange motif wheels and off road tires. It competed with the Chevy Blazer, Ford Bronco, and Jeep Wagoneer. One of the first SUV's. It was brutal and unstoppable in the mud. My father was a broker and land developer so it saw lots of off road duty, including being stuck up to its windows in a mudslide.

    1978 Trailduster http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/photos/B28456.jpg

    It had a 360 with a 4 barrel carb, dual exhaust, full time 4x4 with (manual), roll cage, removable roof, brush guard,skid plates, locking hubs. Had dealer installed A/C too, but when it was given to me it hadn't worked for years, so I jettisoned the compressor. It ran for 15 year's with no mechanical problems. Unfortunately, the body rusted like crazy (due to aforementioned mudslide and the resulting damp sand in all the trucks crevices) and it became unsafe as there were holes all over the floor, including a 8x12 "flintstone-Esq" hole here the drivers feet are supposed to go. I had a metal real estate sign under the floor mat, but at the end it fell off on I-95. Lovely.

    Cars have come a long way.
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