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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    edited May 2013
    Few people complain about idle noise levels on any modern family sedan. The measurement is pretty meaningless.
    Pointing to decibel levels and saying a sound meter says it's quiet, so that overrules human perception of the sound levels is not a good argument.
    I don't care what a sound meter from Car and Driver reads if it sounds loud to me.
    Generally, people who complain about noise complain about either noise on full throttle or cruising down the highway.
    It's certainly possible that the Sport has less sound insulation or is missing ANC anyway. It also has a dual exhaust that may not be as quiet as other Accords to give it a sportier exhaust note. Tires are not always the sole source of noise.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    It was the Accord EX-L. It has 17" rims/tires. The Mazda was the GT with 19"s.

    Also, if you want 16" base model wheels I am certain that someone would swap you for your 18 " alloys for free. Certain.

    Also, I provided both references from two different tests. :)

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,997
    edited May 2013
    My Fusion has a laminated windshield which helps cut down on wind noise.
    Over the weekend, I was cleaning my sisters Prius V and one thing that stuck me was how unsubstantial the outside mirrors are although they do have power and I believe they are heated.
    Of course a Prius is about lightness, so I'm sure that plays into it.
    The Fusion has some really nice side mirrors that include turn signals, puddle lamps and a wide angle sub mirror built in, along with the power adjustment and heat.
    I see that next year Intelligent Access is going to be available on the SE model.
    Wanted to try a tank of premium gas, but won't be able to go through the whole tank before my trip to Michigan, about 1600 miles, mid next month.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    Sorry to be "Mr reply" but....I had my windows tinted 2 months ago, and the very first thing I noticed (other than it being dark) was how quiet the car became. I was totally surprised and wondered why that fact isn't advertised by the shop who installed it.

    Laminated windows in the Fusion are a good, low weight way to quell the outside noise, and since we have all been talking about road noise, I would be remiss in not mentioning to potential buyers and current owners that a quieter and more private cabin is only $200 away!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • serenity185serenity185 Posts: 22
    Road noise is pretty low on my criteria when looking at cars, but I'm sure pretty just about all of the cars in this class are sufficiently quiet. It's all relative, too- for example, people keep talking about how loud Hondas are, but I find my 2007 Accord to be fairly quiet in areas I care about (e.g. the engine noise is low and the road noise is moderate- I find engine noise more offensive than road noise if it's an unrefined engine). Of course, I came from a Dodge Neon.

    If the new Mazda 6 does in fact have the noisiest interior in its class, it's not really a surprise since they could think the noise keeps the driver more connected (they are the "Zoom, zoom" company). I actually prefer Mazda's approach of keeping the car lighter and more efficient, even if it's not Fusion or Malibu quiet. Not to say that they can't add more sound deadening, but I don't think any car in this class is without flaws.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    If you swap to 16s or 17s on a car that was setup from the factory to run on 19's, there may be issues with various systems in the car (suspension, stability control etc.).
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    edited May 2013
    Every car I looked at does have some flaws.
    Honda Accord, ridiculous 1 piece folding rear seat. Afterthought-looking center touch screen on EX-L models that has already needed a service campaign to fix issues. Minor CVT issues on 4 cylinder. Minor automatic transmission issues on V6.
    Altima has some quality control issues and drivability complaints on 4 cylinder models.
    Mazda 6 noisy, undersized nav screen and uses second rate TomTom maps and routing. Have to get nav if you want push start. No rear cam without nav.
    Chevy Malibu very uncompetitive mpg for what it is even with e-Assist, small back seat, bad styling, no push start available. Quietness is all it seems to have going for it. Pricing not low enough to overlook shortcomings.
    2013 Ford Fusion requires overpriced Titanium edition to get push start.
    Camry super bland exterior, cluttered truck-like dashboard, cheap seats, hellish small overlap crash test results.
    Subarus require top trim levels and even then you still have to spend thousands more on mandatory option packages to get push start.
  • Every 2014 Mazda 6 has push button start.
    Back up cam is on every model with AT.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,833
    You are correct that each car has pluses and minuses. But different people perceive them differently as well. The 1-fold rear seat on the Accord is a non-issue for me as my second car is a hatchback. The EX-L touch screen is one of the car's biggest pluses for me! So easy to use and so intuitive! On the other hand, you can't get Homelink garage transmitter on any 4 cylinder Accord. Some people dont like that you can't get remote start either. Minus on the Altima for me was no power passenger seat, but it does have remote start.Road noise would be an issue on the Mazda although I really like them.

    What isn't an issue is that these are all great cars that are well-made and reliable. They do drive somewhat differently. So it's really a matter of how each car appeals to your driving style and the combination of features that matter most.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I mean push start with smart entry. Push start without smart entry is kind of pointless to me since you still have to take the key out to open the door.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    You can get remote start on an Accord as a dealer accessory. The issue with this besides the cost, is that if doesn't integrate with the key fob that works with smart entry. So, you have to carry 2 key fobs with you if you have an EX or above.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    2014 Fusion will offer intelligent access and push button start on SE models.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    The Optima EX , on par with the Fusion SE, does have start button and an intelligent key fob. It also has a refrigerated glove box for drinks on trips, leather, dual exhaust, fog lights, zebrano wood accents, 200 HP, 17" alloys, satellite radio, USB ports, I-pod aux port, two power ports, MP3 support, bluetooth, and 100,000 mile powertrain (5/60 bumper to bumper) plus free oil changes for life. All this is in just the base EX. $24,260 sticker. $21,880 was my negotiated real price.
    Find another car with that much content for that price!!!! All I wish it had was a standard backup camera and a height adjust on the passenger seat.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 3,833
    It's what matters to you. I love, love, the backup camera. Accord has most of those on EX-L, no refrigerated glove box though. Not sure I would want that anyway.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,081
    A reporter seeks to interview:
    1. a husband/wife team who just bought a car together
    2. a car salesperson who has sold a car to a memorable husband/wife team
    If you have a story to share, please email [email protected] no later than Thursday, May 30, 2013 and include your daytime contact information.


    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    Yeah, on the refrigerated glove box, I forgot I had it until I was looking for a scraper yesterday. It's just a glorified A/C vent and can be closed.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • vinwrongenginevinwrongengine Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    KIA vin indicates timing chain but timing belt installed

    My engine blew up without warning. The Timing Belt broke. :sick:

    The problem is that when I bought the vehicle I intentionally went to the Auto Parts store to purchase a timing belt set for my KIA. But the Auto Parts store could not sell me a Timing Belt set because the car had a Timing Chain.

    Later I'm driving along and the engine blows up.

    I rechecked the VIN and it does indicate a Timing Chain. But when the mechanic pulled the engine apart, it had an old broken timing Belt.

    I suggest that ALL auto mechanics everywhere contact their KIA customers to have them bring in their vehicle for a quick check.

    The 8th digit of the VIN number is a 6 for a timing Chain, and the left side of the motor looking in under the hood has a plastic cover that can be opened to see if there is a chain or belt for that engine.

    If the VIN indicates a timing chain, and a belt is installed, then you can get class action suit information at:

    So based upon all this, I have mixed feelings.

    The car drives great and has otherwise been a good car. But that the VIN prevented me from getting the correct information I needed to do scheduled maintenance is a major issue.

    If you have a KIA, any model, I suggest you or a mechanic visually sighting the timing chain before trusting that the engine has a chain instead of a belt. Don't let your mechanic talk you out of it, I did and now my engine is blown up. Vehicle data is usually reliable, but in this case KIA made a huge mistake by installing a cheaper engine without changing the VIN number accordingly.

    This is easy for a mechanic or even yourself to do in less than 5 minutes. The cover comes loose with a couple of bolts. Don't let anything accidentally slip into the timing belt housing.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    What year is your Optima? Optimas since at least the 2006.5 MY have used the Hyundai-designed Theta engine family, which all have timing chains.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    edited May 2013
    What? Installing a cheaper engine? What year Kia? What model? Kia has been making Optima's since 2000.
    We deal with current mid size sedans here.

    This is the incorrect forum for class action suits, but if there is a problem with a specific vehicle please post that information.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,997
    Notice the post reads 'when I bought' they went to get the timing belt.
    Sounds like it was not bought new, so someone could have put in a non original engine.
    Personally, I don't the suit going anywhere, but good luck.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    It almost sounds like the belt was part of an options group. "Well, you can have the car, but the timing belt is part of the "preferred my car to run group", which also includes an alternator & a battery. $2500. LMAO. Yes I am silly.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • stygz2stygz2 Posts: 7
    What is the difference between the leatherette on the touring vs the leather on the grand touring? I was looking at a 2013 Honda Accord EX-L and faintly remembered the leather being softer feeling.

    I am concidering the Accord EX-L or the Mazda 6 touring. There is a big price difference on the two though. I am looking at about invoice less military rebate on the Mazda 6 (about 23100) vs the Honda EX-L 4 cyl (about 28295 including military rebate). The Honda is asking pretty much retail but is offering me 13500 for my impreza which KBB for 10500.

    I like both cars. The honda does not offer black leather on the white exterior while the Mazda does. I like the 60/40 split rear seat on the mazda. Which leaves me choosing a The Honda dealer is only up the street from me while the Mazda is about a 35 minute drive. I know the the Honda has alot of safety features the Mazda does not (or you have to pay extra for) such as radar type cruise control, lane departure.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    Congrats on your two choices, both excellent.

    The EX-L Accord is the top of the line trim level for a 4 cylinder. That is why the price is much higher.

    You can compare the Accord Sport, and that gets you 18" rims plus dual exhaust. It includes the backup camera of course, but not the second lower screen. It stickers at around $23 to $26, and is more of an apples-to apples comparison to the Mazda 6 Touring with the leatherette.

    Now, are you going for an auto trans? Because the Accord has a CVT, but the Mazda has a conventional 6 speed automatic.

    I would drive both, and I don't mean around the block. I mean take them both home for an extended test drive. That will help you break your deadlock on choosing I believe.
    Good luck!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • stygz2stygz2 Posts: 7
    I have test driven both cars. Either transmission is fine with me. Obviously I see most passenger cars going CVT in the future and I dont have a problem with it. I have yet to do an extended test drive. The Honda dealer did offer me one though. I do note the honda felt really nice going over RR tracks. It felt like a luxury car. The Honda dealer quoted me a payment of 425. I went home and ran the figures myself and got a payment of 407. I wonder what the difference of payment was for? Gap insurance or ?. I may have to have them email me the figures. I can really see the Accord being a great road trip car comfortable, nice stereo and seemed to be a pleasure to drive. Funny the dealer was sticking with the MSRP but over offering my trade. It seems with those figures I may be able to get them to throw in 2 oil/ tire rotations and maybe a spoiler.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    edited May 2013
    I will get right to the point. I was a buyer for a bank that purchased auto loans. (Like Ford Motor Credit, etc). Here is what the dealer is doing.

    They are creating a cash down payment of $3000. so, your deal is as follows:

    2013 Honda Accord EX-L

    $28,295 (after military discount)
    13,500 (for your trade
    - 10,500 (you owe)
    = 3000 down payment

    + doc prep, tags, taxes,

    A bank will only lend so much on a car. the max is 125% of dealer invoice (or NADA book value if the car is used). So, they give you $3000 more than your trade is worth to create a down payment so the bank will buy the deal with favorable terms.

    The dealer also will want a $250 "doc prep" fee, $50 for tags, and don't forget the taxes. The $25 payment discrepancy is due to those fees.

    This is only 1 scenario based on info you provided. If you are upside down on your trade they could be trying to pay it off so they can put you in a new car....and that is why you pay MSRP. Banks do NOT like being upside down on a deal any more than you do.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • stygz2stygz2 Posts: 7
    edited May 2013
    That is close to my scenerio

    599 dealer fee
    50 misc tag fees
    960 approximate ad valor tax (No sales tax we call it ad valor tax in Georgia)

    13500 Trade
    8500 owe
    =5000 equity

    1500 down
    500 military

    30404-7000=23404 financed @1.9x60mo = $409 month

    Dealer said it would be $425 a month. The dealer must be trying to work in something else? Maybe some paint and interior protectant?

    I may concider a Altima 2.5 SL. I like the Bose stereo, Xenon headlights, and remote start all for less than the Accord. But no lane watch.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    edited May 2013
    Did they quote you like 1.9%, but it is actually 1.99% ? That's a common variance. They are trying to get your business and we are programmed to think of gas (for example ) as costing $3.65, but it is actually 3.6599, or $3.66.

    Look over the contract, and make sure all the number jive. Enjoy your new car. I am outta here!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 12,997
    off the top of my head 18 time 60 is about $1100, $1000 before interest, so it's worth looking into.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • stygz2stygz2 Posts: 7
    I am thinking either some sort of maint plan. Or the dealer lists a few charges such as $399 for nitrogen tire fill, $xxx for paint sealant, $xxx for fabric interior protectant. I will swing by dealer when they are closed and see if those misc charges listed on the dealers window sticker add up to $1000. I asked the salesman early upon looking at the accord if those charges are optional. I think he said that stuff has already been done to the car. $399 for nitrogen is way out of line......
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,550
    My Neighborhood Shell will inflate with Nitrogen for $0.00. Free. Also, $599 doc prep is high. Tell them $250.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

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