Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Serious negotiation can be done via email working exclusively with the Internet Sales Dept folks. A good dealer will have a good Internet Dept and those folks will be motivated to offer the best pricing. That way once you've settled on what you want, the numbers are finalized before going to the dealer. )))
I agree; however I've noticed dealers in my area don't respond well via internet. They just want to call you. And call...and call...and call. I don't respond to those dealers normally, but writing them off has quickly shut down most dealers I'd prefer to use based on reputation. The easiest to work with dealer has been Hendrick in Hoover, AL. They sell Chrysler products (including a Ram I'm very interested in). Their sales people approach you without the pressure or cheesy schtick of most car salespeople. As a result, they may end up with my business.
In the past, I have bought cars via e-mail. My parents' Taurus was negotiated via E-Mail, my Sonata was as well.
A note: the dealer whom I visited Saturday have of-course called me and asked me to return their call in a voicemail.
Wrong answer. Don't talk down to me when trying to earn my business, and don't tell me what another dealer will do.
I responded back, letting him know that even if the other dealers still had 2300 in add-ons and wanted 27,432 for the car, they'd be beating the Serra Honda offer by over 1,000, and with that, I wouldn't buy either car.
He lost sight of the fact that I have two vehicles that are serviceable, one that I'd be comfortable driving across the country (the Sonata) even though I'd disclosed that to him earlier.
Seat belt adjuster issue: I am 6'3" so I feel your pain there, but my Optima's seat-belt is a little low too, but still completely comfortable. I have driven small cars to large pickups, and have never had a seat-belt irritate me for being a little low.
It sounds like you still like your Sonata. Why don't you check out the Mazda 6 next, and if you feel like that car isn't quite right for you, then keep your Hyundai. The V6 3.3 Sonata is a good car.
Flimsy. The edge at the front was rough, and the motion it slid with was loose, not damped like my previous Accord or my current Sonata. It felt like something you'd expect to find in a Cobalt or something. It felt almost like posterboard/cardboard covered in felt. For what it's worth it didn't look bad at all, but it wasn't confidence inspiring as being "rattle-proof" down the road. (How many times can I say "felt?
((Seat belt adjuster issue: I am 6'3" so I feel your pain there, but my Optima's seat-belt is a little low too, but still completely comfortable. I have driven small cars to large pickups, and have never had a seat-belt irritate me for being a little low. ))
My Sonata's seatbelt hits me just fine. Again, prior Accords have been ok here as well. This irritated me because at the highest position it hit right at the crest of my shoulder - the corner of my arm/shoulder, if you will - and I kept wanting to move it up or down. It's the first time I've ever had the issue in a car.
((It sounds like you still like your Sonata. Why don't you check out the Mazda 6 next, and if you feel like that car isn't quite right for you, then keep your Hyundai. The V6 3.3 Sonata is a good car. ))
Both are good suggestions, but I'll share my reasoning behind the shopping, just for the sake of conversation. Trade-in on my car is about 6k, outright private-party pricing is around $7,500. I have someone interested in my car at the asking price of $8,500. If I get that, or at least $8,000, I'd sell. The car has over 110k miles on it now, and while it has been solid and reliable, it's approaching the end of it's cost-free life according to history. I have family that I drive 300 miles to see on a monthly basis, and want a car I can drive through the boondocks without wondering if I'll have a problem.
The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car, and if they offered it with a V6 engine or a more modern infotainment system, I'd be more inclined to test-drive one. As it stands now, it doesn't meet my wants/needs for 25k-30k bucks.
Try and find some of the no haggle dealers in your area. Really makes things enjoyable. In and out in under an hour buying my '13 Accord EX 6MT. No haggle price was $2,000 plus off of sticker and there were absolutely no add ons or additional fees. This was back in Jan when the the 6MT had just started showing up - could probably do much better now as the '14's are around the corner.
I know these are not near you, but here are a couple in my area.
http://www.walser.com/index.htm
You may need to use the chat window for honda prices at walser, but most of the others are listed.
http://www.bismarckmotorcompany.com/index.htm
I'm about to take a new job within the same company that will change my commute from 95 miles daily to about 30. With that reasoning, I can make the case for having a truck with lower mpgs if it's what my heart really wants. I've driven all these midsizers hoping to "talk myself out" of the truck, but nothing has.
And yes, the Ram I'm listing doesn't have cooled seats, but I can get cloth. The Accord with the upgrades I'd want forces you into leather. As a result, I'd want ventilated leather.
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ecodiesel/
Anyhow; I didn't intend to hijack this thread. Dudley, if you or anyone else would like to chat about the trucks, maybe meet me in the "Help me Choose" forum. I know this isn't the place for "Ram Talk."
Many engine choices mirror mid sizer's, such as the 2.5 liter 4 and the 2.0 Turbo available across the line.
I've not seen a LaCrosse with a turbo. I thought they only had the 2.4Eco and the 3.6?
The CC is very nice, but priced a bit higher. I think of it as the poor-man's Audi A5...if poor people could afford $30+K that is.
Agreed. I love the CC...and the 2013 has 3 seats in the back, but for some reason when I see a recent model VW being sold I think...it must have some sort of problem.
When I read the VW problems they always seem severe. Although all the people I know who've owned VW's have never had major problems...reputations are hard to rebuild...
They have attractive leases...might be a good way to try-it-out.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Though the RAM 1500 is off topic, the Pentastar 3.6 liter V6 isn't, as it is offered in the Chrysler 200, which is a mid size sedan. Chrysler has really stepped up to the plate with this powertrain. It is deployed all throughout their model lineup, from the Jeep Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee to the to the Charger, Challenger, Ram, Town and Country, Avenger, etc.
**Now, speaking of great mileage on an unlikely car, I just read the first track test of the new Corvette Stingray (which replaces the Grand Sport as the "base model" Corvette). GM added a 7th gear to the Tremec three pedal manual, achieving a phenomenal EPA rating of 30 MPG. That's right folks, 30 mpg from a 6.2 liter, 460 HP V8.
One last side-note. 7th gear is so tall on the new Corvette that theoretically; it could achieve 300 MPH before redline. Wow.
**C&D September, page 48
The new Lacrosse shares the Epsilon 2 platform with the Cadillac XTS and the new Impala. At $33,000 for a base 2.4 liter liter (mild) Hybrid, it is a real stretch to step up to this car from a fully loaded mid size, especially to get into the 3.6 liter which boasts 303 HP. That will run you $40,000. If I think about it, I would rather have a loaded Accord V6 or an Optima SX (both blue color) than a base Lacrosse any day of the week. Frankly, the Lacrosse is an "old people's car" in my mind. No offense, but every time I see one a little old lady is driving it.
In keeping with that thought, I think the Regal and the Verano are the most likely sedans to take a few sales from the mid size segment. I would be pleased to own a Regal GS.
No way. Show me a buyers order and a contract. Really. No way. That would mean getting a Regal GS for $22,500 and a Verano for $21,000.
I don't think so. Not even on December 30th in sub zero Buffalo are you gonna get that deal.
what you saw was the Lacrosse leather 2.4 hybrid 4 cyl.
Auto trader list=32,390. Actual price = $28,783, and that is the leather 4 cyl.
Furthermore, the only 3.6 liter GM car you can get new for $25,000 is a Camaro base.
I have a dear friend who recently re-married, and they were looking for a new car for her. At least new to them. I took the time to write up a few recommendations for them.
They showed up this morning all proud of their used 2004 Jetta 1.8T with 85,000 mile. Already the sunroof doesn't work and a headlight is out.
I could barely hide my disappointment. "salesman said this is a great car".
Uggggh.
Several owners on the Optima Forums web site have installed shims and longer bolts (high strength, heat treated stainless steel) and have raised the height by about an inch. Total cost= $20. I think it is a good idea.
Almost $3K off msrp AND 0% for 60 months on the best lineup - 4 cyl. - turbo - Hybrid - of mid sized sedans available.
Awesome lineup from the Koreans!!
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
He is probably right about there being legitimate deals right now, but I would wait 2 months and pick one up after the dealer is stuffed with 2014's and is truly in more desperate need of moving those pesky last 2013's with 2010 styling.
Also, both Korean sibling's will be completely redesigned for 2015.
See picture here: http://wolescar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2015-hyundai-sonata-concept-pictu- - res.jpg
A Sonata GLS for 17.8 and a Limited for $21.2? OMG!
You know, across the North, a tale is told ....... Called "The last".
"Christmas finally over, consumers rest at long last. With their financial reserves drained, they collapse, warmed by the glow of their freshly minted I-pads. Miles away, at the same time, a cold mist descends, wind howling through the barren trees. The lot - bleak, cold; without compassion. Men huddle over a dwindling fire, fueled by once fresh brochures in a highway barrel. It is their only warmth, physical, and psychological. ALL they need one more sale, just one more shot to reach their goal. How close they were! only to be left abandoned!
Wait! a man appears in the distance. Dare I say a customer? A be-back fulfilling his promise to return? Is it an illusion across a cold barren wasteland of forgotten Sonata's?
There is a fable, a legend if you will, of one who returns in 5 years time to pick the flesh of the helpless. One who only deals with the manager, who gets what he wants, bringing him to his knees. Making him Beg for the sale. One last unit.....
Moral of the story? Catch the dealer at their weakest, bring them to their knees, and bask in the glow of your good fortune by owning that last unit, moved to reach some sales goal. Lost, but not forgotten."
The sonatas are a GREAT buy. The ONLY reason I have ruled it out is the low passenger seat. I know you raised yours in your optima and my neighbor did the same thing to his (after I told him about your post discussing others raising the passenger seat - he put 2 inch shims under his), but I am hesitant to do that because if I was ever in an accident I can hear the insurance company claiming the car was modified from original design and using that as a reason to dispute a claim.
Got $18K for my 2011 Sonata on the trade.
Toyota almost NEVER gives 0% on their Camry hybrids.
The Prius is an appliance, a poor excuse for a driver's car while the HSH drives great, holds a ton of stuff, and will get in the mid-forties.
The model I've looked at has roughly a 5100lb curb weight, and at 75mph on I-65 where I test drove it, averaged 23mpg on various hills here in Birmingham, at the based of the App. Mntns.
+++Though the RAM 1500 is off topic, the Pentastar 3.6 liter V6 isn't, as it is offered in the Chrysler 200, which is a mid size sedan. Chrysler has really stepped up to the plate with this powertrain. It is deployed all throughout their model lineup, from the Jeep Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee to the to the Charger, Challenger, Ram, Town and Country, Avenger, etc.+++
I read an article yesterday on how the entire Chrysler V6 family is now Pentastar based other than the diesel motors, with the 3.2 and 3.6 here in the states, and the 3.0 seen in Europe.
Neither of these cars offered space or fuel efficiency relative to their mpg and power ratings. Yes, I'm shopping MPG while also shopping for a truck or big-engined midsizer. The Verano was incredibly small and cramped "feeling" inside, although it was very well-trimmed even in it's most basic form, which I have actually test driven. The sticker was somewhere around $24k. However, my fiance and I have a basic rule for the car being "roomy enough;" if she can sit behind me where I'd have the seat set, the car is good. It means as a party of four, we could travel anywhere in comfort. The Verano nor the Regal pass this test.
I want the best power/size/mpg ratio I can find, and the Buicks don't really meet that demand.
As for the LaCrosse, sorry, but that's a car for my parents. A nice car, but not something that makes me excited. I'd rather just keep my car. It's boring AND paid off.
Both are poor excuses for "driver's cars."
Now I get that many owners simply have no need to tow anything...ever. But there sure are a LOT that do. One-car families for example who don't enjoy the benefits of having a pick-up in the driveway too. And often the towing restriction caveats make no sense! For example... and don't hold me to these exact scenarios as I am going by memory here, but if you pick up these 3 brochures you can compare the anomalies for yourselves..
You can tow with a Cruze with the 1.8 or 1.4 turbo, but not it's an Eco model (which has the 1.4). Are we to assume that because FE is its basic primary goal in life, and to get that star the gearing we know is taller in the transmission and final drive, so that changes the rules enough that now they tell you towing isn't recommended? Or read another way...if you drive in with a transmission or some other drivetrain wty issue and they see you have put a hitch on your car, it is an out to not wty your claim. Further, if they are worried about power-to-potential weight or towing ability...the 1.8 certainly isn't the ball of fire the 1.4 is. And if they are concerned with exhaust manifold and turbo heat issues under the load of towing a small 1000 lb trailer, then why is it allowed with the 1.4 non Eco turbo? When you compare that to the Regal below..you'll see it all makes no sense..
So now you check the Regal and see that towing isn't recommended with it at all with the turbo, even though it is marketed as a performance car ahead of exceptional FE the way the Cruze Eco is (which not only has a much smaller displacement, but is lighter too) i.e which means it does not have the extra tall gearing, so combine that with the larger displacement, and being turbo'd, you'd think a person could tow at least a 1000 lb trailer if the Cruze is allowed to, right?
And I think even the La Crosse had some weird anomaly assoc with towing too...can't remember..oh...I think it was allowed to tow with the V6, but not at all with the 2.4 or something like that..even though that same 2.4 in other similar weight vehicles like an Equinox, are allowed to tow..
Someone there at GM needs to get their ducks in a row..
And to be fair, it is not just GM...it seems the "Towing Is Not Recoomended" clause shows up more and more often lately with other brands too. Now I know we don't rely on towing here in NA to the degree that they do in EU, but with some of us, being able to tow a small load of a 1000lb or less is a must.
Hell...you can get a hitch on a Kia Rio and tow and they will wty you.
Just sayin'..
And my last comment is a question I have been curious about for a long time..I know I should just go and drive one..I have tried but they never seem to be in stock in my area..
But just what is it about the driving dynamics that spoil the driving experience from a purist point of view when driving a hybrid, especially a CVT based one? Is it the weirness of unnatural deceleration when you let off the gas or worse..start to brake as the regenerative current does its thing? Or is there an unnatural delay in how this all happens? Can anyone communicate what is so bad about them, and does a Camry hybrid exhibit all this weirdness to the same degree as the Prius, or is it more about interior noise levels that make the Prius so uncomfortable to drive? Assuming the TCH is much quieter..
I've never towed with a car; it is a non-issue for me.
Any time I've ever needed to tow anything it was for moving purposes...and then I've rented a truck (U-Haul, etc).
If you have a trailer that you use regularly then I'd get something that could reliably tow a trailer, not something that will just "get by".
I wouldn't feel safe traveling any distance in something that wasn't a "towing" vehicle...braking, cross winds, high temperatures, hills, bumps, etc...all make me cringe when towing (probably because I'm inexperienced); I couldn't imaging doing it in a Cruze
Now if you just have a small trailer and you're moving firewood from one side of your property to the other...then it probably doesn't matter.
But here are some random examples that could easily be tow jobs on a regular basis for an average NA family.
- take a load of rubbish to the landfill
- move a fridge or stove or mattress
- take the lawnmower, especially a riding style, to the shop
- pick up a few building materials for a backyard playhouse project or small deck
- tow a small fishing boat or personal watercraft or snowmobile or motorcycle
It isn't financially reasonable to rent a truck to do any of those chores. Imagine renting a truck to take the mower to the shop..then renting it again to bring it home when fixed.
Ironically the one item you mentioned, while could be done in small enough loads, firewood is actually very heavy and really should have a more substantial tow vehicle as braking also becomes an issue and many many small trailers that are quite capable of pretty heavy payloads, often still don't come with their own brakes.
Anyway, my main point was the anomalies with what is allowed and not allowed on those 3 vehicles i used in my example. There should be some logical reasoning or consistency behind their recommendations, yet there isn't.
Nor the Eco Cruze from the regular one either. Cosmetic/FE trim bits are not deal breakers when it comes to mounting a hitch, only structural chassis mounting areas, and very occasionally, exhaust routing..
Is the Prius a mid-size? If so, I guess you could tell me here about its driving dynamics vs a non hybrid?
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
I take loads of rubbish (grass, leaves, etc) to the landfill in a mini-van with a large tarp wrapping up the sides. I had a few bags of grass from the previous season...wow, what a wretched smell...it fermented all winter.