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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    What do you mean by that? The fact that Chrysler is using an I-4 co-developed by Hyundai and several others? It isn't, strictly speaking, a Hyundai engine, nor the same engine found in Hyundai products.
    And, as far as I am concerned, Dodge in no way equates Hyundai in the rest of the car either.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Eh, they have the same engine, whats the difference?

    A Dodge and a Hyundai have the same engine?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No. The four-cylnider Chrysler "world engines" do share some common design elements with some Hyundai engines such as the 2.4L I4 on the Sonata, but they are not the same engines.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    The Mazda6 also has the feature where windows can be opened by the remote...only the two front ones for some reason.

    As for "why is the rear window going all the way down so important...?", I never said it was...I think I said it was a minor point, but that I prefer them to go down. I had just assumed that the days of windows going down 1/2 or 2/3 were over, hearing that they are not in the case of the Fusion was a surprise. The Accord's sound like they are about like the Mazda6's.

    There are a lot of other small preferences that I have, some I got in the 6, some I did not. These are not, by themselves, likely to cause me to choose one vehicle over another. Some of these preferences that come to mind are: steering wheel audio controls, "manual" mode in an automatic, extender on sun visor, doors that open without having to unlock first, automatic door locks, the "old" mazda6 type vents, minimal chrome, no wood or fake wood,...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    No official figures on that yet but I've seen 180-200 HP stated for that I4.

    I highly doubt the power numbers will be that high. Mazda has announced they made the 2.3L into a 2.5L and it will produce 170hp. That is for Europe. I cannot believe that the U.S. application will be any different. I do not see anything higher then 180, and 180 might be doubtful.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I had just assumed that the days of windows going down 1/2 or 2/3 were over, hearing that they are not in the case of the Fusion was a surprise.

    As I already explained the Fusion windows go all the way down at the rear of the window and only stick up about 2" at the front tapering down to flush about halfway. They're barely noticeable and you can still put your arm out on the rear half of the window if necessary. That's about as good as you can get with most designs today.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Its Ron but to answer your question. While we had a relatively good experience with this, a 12 year old Dodge, that I bought partly because I maintained it even when my daughter owned it and therefore didn't expect any suprises there isn't any new Chrysler product that interests me. Couple this with the corporate problems (a new owner etc.) Chrysler is experiencing and I won't consider one.
    Why Hyundai? Well, as I said my daughter has one (2003 Elantra)with about 36K miles and no problems, our son has the 2000 Elantra I bought him in Dec. 2003. It had about 63K miles then and has 166K miles now (he adds 100 miles per day in his commute). I know every penny that was spent on this car since we bought it and the list of replacement parts/repairs is as follows:
    1. new alternator @ 154,XXX miles.
    2. the original battery ruined by the failure of the alternator..same mileage
    3. 2 sets of tires over 103K miles.
    4. several sets of Hyundai brand rotors that for some reason developed "chatter" upon braking. These were replaced under warranty but I finally bought Bendix rotors that have been fine since. An anomaly?
    5. 1 set plugs and wiring.
    6. new timing belt @ ~ 80K miles and a new water pump at the same time because it is prudent to do that.
    7. in Feb of this year a "flex pipe" was needed in the exhaust system. It connected the down pipe (at the exhaust manifold) to the rest of the exhaust.
    Further I personally have owned two Santa Fe SUV's. One a 2002 the other a 2003. Before anyone tries to make something of the early trade for the 2003 there were certain features introduced in '03 I "had to have". And before someone tries to make something about trading a Hyundai for a Honda (in the fall of 2005) the simple explanation is gas went over $3.00 per gallon for the first time ever and fuel economy while reasonable for an SUV wasn't that great in light of the price. So, the uncertainty of future prices was the reason for that trade. It wasn't that I disliked my Hyundai or that it was troublesome, on the contrary, it like all the others in our family was extremely troubleFREE. I originally wanted a Sonata but chose maximum economy and bought the Civic. Why not a 2006 Elantra? Well, that design was getting a bit "old" at 5 model years and I knew a redesign was in the works but didn't want to wait more than a year for that either. In light of the disappointment with the Civic I wish I had gone with the Sonata. I like Hyundai, I tried to like Honda but too many small things turned me off. To be clear it never left us sit, never had major component trouble but I lost track of Honda service bulletins that were issued to correct original flaws. That plus several recalls (three that I know of) were also issued. The latest is: #07V40200 a brake light switch problem...oh, that isn't the latest there also is #07V399000 which is a rear wheel bearing/speed sensor issue that may allow the rear wheel (s) to fall off.
    In summary there is no major foul-up for Hyundai ever.. nothing like the Toyota engine sludge issue or Honda transmission problems. Never say never but not to date. You are correct go with the good experience and that was/is Hyundai not Honda..sorry boys. So yeah, Hyundai for me.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I highly doubt the power numbers will be that high. Mazda has announced they made the 2.3L into a 2.5L and it will produce 170hp.

    Direcet injection will easily raise it to 200. I was wrong about the numbers I read though. The Ford employee who graced us with the prelim numbers for the 2008 Mazda6 stated 190-200 HP for the 2.5L I4 and, after checking the post again, it is a DI engine. Remember, these are prelim numbers, but from a reliable source IMO.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Sorry, just the same head and block. My bad. The Chrysler "world engine" has Mercedes' variable valve timing, Hyundai uses their own.

    Eh, a rose by another name...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    As I already explained the Fusion windows go all the way down at the rear of the window and only stick up about 2" at the front tapering down to flush about halfway.

    Sorry, I must have misread something...I thought that comment was about the Accord. I guess we did not get a detailed rear window report from any Accord owners :) . The Sonata was reported to have windows that go all the way down.

    Urnews had said fusion left 4 inches of rear window :confuse: . What you say about the Fusion sounds exactly like the Mazda6, which makes more sense.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    It applies to any additional trim piece (carbon fiber, aluminum, wood). But wood is something that is a bit too common, down to the cheapest economy cars that don't have much else going. And I equally detest the silver/aluminum plastic trims too, in any car.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What's a couple of inches between friends? :blush:
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Urnews had said fusion left 4 inches of rear window . What you say about the Fusion sounds exactly like the Mazda6, which makes more sense.

    I was mistaken, relied on memory. What Allen Kirby described is accurate. By actual measurement, 1.5 inches of the glass is above the sill at the most forward point. It tapers downward and disappears about midway of the sill. I apologize for the faulty information.

    It still bugs me that it doesn't disappear completely. Not a biggie, to be sure, just a minor annoyance. It looks like a mistake even if it's not.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Sources I found indicate that "reportedly" while the basic block was designed by Hyundai, Chrysler and Mitsubishi made "a large number of modifications and changes to make it more efficient and adapt it to their uses and technologies. Most of the packaging and dressing such as the intake manifold and valve timing equipment appear to have been developed by each partner independently and will be used independently as well." Many components are out sourced including rods pistons camshafts and others.
    Further there are several variants of this including a 1.8 liter a 2.0 liter a 2.4 liter (which has more hp than the Sonata @ 173) and both a 2.4 liter turbo (which has far more @ 300) and a 2.0 liter diesel. I would say that even the basic block as designed by Hyundai has been modified enough by both Chrysler and Mitsu. that it is not the same engine as used in the Sonata. The displacement is the same, true, but the engine has enough differences that..nope..it isn't a "Hyundai engine" any more than it is a "Mitsubishi engine" or a "Chrysler engine" it is a GEMA engine which is a separate company...co-developed for sure. If you want further differences I guess I can research more and come up with some. Further research shows no Hyundai applications for this series of engines.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Another good report, Ron. Much appreciated.

    In summary there is no major foul-up for Hyundai ever.. nothing like the Toyota engine sludge issue or Honda transmission problems. Never say never but not to date. You are correct go with the good experience and that was/is Hyundai not Honda..sorry boys. So yeah, Hyundai for me.

    The thing that bothers me so much about the Toyota sludge problem is how the company stonewalled for so long. It took a class-action lawsuit to get the company to do the right thing. Many many thousands of owners were affected.

    One of the nice things about our 3.0-liter V6 Ford engine in our 2007 Fusion is the fact that it is not known to have any inherent problems at this stage of the game. It is dependable and reliable even though it might not be as sophisticated as some other engines in the marketplace.

    From all that I've read, the Sonata is a fine mid-size car. We went with the Fusion because of good past experiences with Ford products and the fact that the dealer, Sherwood of Salisbury, Md., is top notch in our book.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The Ford employee who graced us with the prelim numbers for the 2008 Mazda6 stated 190-200 HP for the 2.5L I4 and, after checking the post again, it is a DI engine. Remember, these are prelim numbers, but from a reliable source IMO.

    I am a Mazda employee, and have heard no such numbers yet. I will be more then happy to eat my words if the North American 2009 Mazda6 I4 gets more then 170hp! :shades:

    I have 2008 Mazda6's in my inventory, the new Mazda6 will be a 2009, not 2008.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hard to say how many engines will bite the dust due to oil sludge problems. My Dad has an i4 engine and the Camry is the 2000 model year. He got an extension on warranty. The worst things was a knock down on resale values from excellent down to just good. He has the oil changed ever 3K miles or so. That is another cost, the extra oil changes.
    Seems to be running just fine. Toyota should offer an extra $2,000 off the purchase of any Toyota car in the future to those caught up in this poor engineering fiasco. Overall, the car is not interior or exterior as trouble free as was his '91 Camry, which was a zero defect car. He just did the oil changes, air filter, tires, and spark plugs in nine years time. It was never back to the dealership once. I think the early 90's to perhaps the mid-90's was the last of best of the Camrys. I had a Corolla '98 and it was pretty much trouble free, sort of like the earlier Camry cars were. Dad's 2000 is OK, and the only major concern is the oil changes all the time and resale value taking a couple or thousand hit due to oil sludge problems. Still has more resale value than does most any domestic car I can think of. Can't think of any Toyota, at this time, which lights my fancy at all. Now, if they made a RWD Celica again, then..... The New Camry interior is not too hot, and exterior is sort of odd in some areas, so before any other considerations, it was off my list, when I was mid-size car hunting.
    L
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    About the only major "foul ups" from Hyundai have been the 1st generation Excel (a really big foul up) and the infamous overstating of horsepower about five years ago. I owned a car affected by that, found out its engine had 135 hp vs. 140. I got a $100 service coupon out of it, and there wasn't actually a problem with the car, so no big deal.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hyundai did lose some young buyers, when they refused to repair for no cost, a clutch problem on the 2003 Tiburon cars. Under warranty, of course they would not normally repair parts which can wear due to heavy use or loads, which on a manual transmission could burn out a clutch in one day. This however seems to be some faulty part, as it is most prevalent on the 2003 Tiburon. Don't know if this is still in court, out of court, or what Hyundai is going to do about this issue. Of course, if they can prove no product defect, they will win in court. Alas, they still will have lost. Negative relationships with young customers is not a good thing, as they are the people with growing buying power, and some dozen cars later on in life, could have been a loyal customer. The flip side is that Hyundai may be reluctant to replace a part in a car which can fail due to over-stressing as in racing or dragging a car. The other side is pretty sure though they have a case of the old faulty part was installed charge against the company. Let me know if you heard of a settlement. Guess I personally would buy an automatic Hyundai and avoid the clutch models. L
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So you can take that $100 coupon and buy a K&N air filter to get some of that lost HP back ;) Or go to See' and buy some candy, and just not worry about the HP.

    Hyundai Sonata is a good enough car, but those high fleet sales are not helping the resale values. It is really one company to watch, as they grow and grow. Wonder if the Elantra gets a new more powerful engine soon. Is it not approaching the mid-size class, as per interior room? L
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I paid for my car's 15k service with it. :)

    Hyundai has reduced fleet sales on the Sonata, has bumped up prices, and has cut back some on incentives over the past year. Yet they are still near capacity in Alabama when adding the Sonata and Santa Fe production. So they are not doing too bad IMO.

    The Elantra has been in the mid-sized class by interior volume since the 2001 MY, but is even bigger inside for 2007-8. It is definitely an alternative for me. Power-wise, it's at 138, which is low for the class but since it's smaller/lighter than others in the class, it's plenty peppy for me. To me the Elantra is an interesting, lower-cost alternative for a car with mid-sized interior and trunk room but compact size, and a good complement of features including standard ESC on the SE trim.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Elantra, once the bump the HP should sell even better than today, but then again, it is bumping into Sonata at that point. Gas mileage will be even more important with $82 a barrel oil now.

    A little more work on the steering and suspensions of the Sonata to tune for handling, and I would say it has arrived. As for looks, I think it is just fine when compared to some now trying far too hard for a change for the sake of change, and just doing strange things with headlamps and such. The Sonata look is clean right now. If they hold to long term durability high scores, things will continue upwards. The first half of this year, they were at around a 27% fleet sales, while it is not huge, perhaps they could half next year??? What are the numbers on Sonata? I thought they are selling under last year figures, but I could be very much wrong on that one. Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So what about moving it up a notch and buying a used car in the mid-sized range, in the near luxury (which would be luxury to my pocketbook) ? How many have done just that, with no regrets. I have thought about it, but always stopped short of acting on it. I see those BMW 3 and 5 cars, the baby Mercedes, and Cadillac, Lincolns, Acuras, and well let's say a hundreds of older, hopefully well maintained luxury or near luxury, now selling at or below what it cost for base i4 mid-sized Japan or Korean car. Maintenance and replacement of parts is my fear, after hearing of some prices, like on Volvos, oh my!

    Would you say it is the transmissions which are the most concern in those used cars, and could it be some of the older models, with a stick or an automatic which is an older type, could be less costly and thus take some of the risk out of the equation? Or is it something one will do buy once in life, like buying a boat. :)
    Loren
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I have 2008 Mazda6's in my inventory, the new Mazda6 will be a 2009, not 2008.


    Thanks for correcting that. The U.S. version hasn't even been unveiled yet!

    am a Mazda employee, and have heard no such numbers yet.

    You work at a Mazda dealer IIRC, right? The Ford employee I speak of works at an assembly plant if I'm not mistaken. Big difference.

    Employees of Mazda dealers aren't Mazda employees either I always thought. Are they? I'm not trying to flame. Just curious.
  • volvownervolvowner Member Posts: 37
    "Some of these preferences that come to mind are: steering wheel audio controls, "manual" mode in an automatic, extender on sun visor, doors that open without having to unlock first, automatic door locks, the "old" mazda6 type vents, minimal chrome, no wood or fake wood,..."

    Wow, minimal chrome...does somebody still do that?

    I vividly remember riding in a ~'79 Camaro about 10 years later, and it had the most ghastly multi-toned aluminum type dash. Granted, the chrome/brushed aluminum is done with more taste now, but I still wonder how it's going to age, and whether we'll look back 10 years from now and wonder how the designers went so overboard for that fad.

    And that's just the sedans. The over-the-top use of chrome on the dinosaur SUVs these days (think Escalade and Navigator) is enough to make any self-respecting pimp blush. Oh well, I guess they're devoid of any real improvement ideas, and they have to go somewhere to stay semi-relevant.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Isn't that aluminum look on the Camaro something of an aluminum tape applique, so perhaps the old one pulls off, and a new tape sticks on there.

    As for those GOOD things we now have on a modern car, the extending sun visor ranks amongst the best of ideas. The telescoping steering column is a great idea, though I wish they would pull towards the driver yet another inch or two, as I have short arms, I guess. What I do not like at all are those foot emergency brakes. The worst I have seen, IMHO, is the New Altima which has the foot brake position more where I would expect the clutch to be. Now it does rise upward of course when not engaged, but it is still in what looks to me in harms way if the legs swing up, such as in a wreck, or when I am twisting around getting in or out. Wait a minute, it is in the down position when moving in and out, which is even worse. I really do not like this. On the Aura it is not a good thing, but at least it is far to the left side. I want my hand brake. Loren
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    My parents had a tilt & telescopic steering wheel in a 1968 Plymouth Fury III. I think the T & T steering wheel was available before 1968.

    But, T & T is not something new.

    I agree with you in the "emergency"/parking brake location. In fact, my '71 Volvo had the brake lever between the driver seat and door. It did not impede entry or exit and did not get in the way of the shifter or console.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    No, telescoping steering in column is not new, though many manufactures, like GM, did not offer it as a standard feature, even on a Cadillac CTS when introduced. How cheap is that? I believe it is now standard.

    Those swing-a-way steering columns were pretty strange. Guess it was a good thing. Your basic tilt is a good thing to have. A few cars did not have it. The older Miatas did not, though I am lucky as the wheel is in the right position for me. I owned a first gen. of a Miata some years ago. May get another one. L
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I have always liked the wood look, real or not. Plood, as some call it, can be very nice when done right. If one car has plastic that looks like wood, and one has plastic that looks like brushed aluminum, I will pick the wood look. Of course, like anything else, the "Plood" in some cars, looks much better than the "Plood" in another.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    My father's 1970 Chrysler New Yorker had tilt and telescoping steering wheel, and probably a few other things you don't see on today's economy cars. If you think the new Accord is too big, you should have driven that beast. It was massive. There was obviously no fuel crisis back then.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Guess it was a good thing. Your basic tilt is a good thing to have. A few cars did not have it. The older Miatas did not, though I am lucky as the wheel is in the right position for me. I owned a first gen. of a Miata some years ago. May get another one. L

    My grandfather's 1999 Nissan Frontier doesn't have tilt either. It's an XE Reg Cab model though, so it has crank windows, manual locks, a 5-sp man & 4-cyl combo, and doesn't offer intermittent wipers (I don't mean variable intermittent, I mean it has low-speed and hi-speed and that's IT).

    It's a hoot to drive though - the only manual transmission in my immediate family.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Glad you liked your Miata. I had an '71 Volve 1800E. What a great car for that era. Mid-size sedans are now as fast, have almost as good cornering ability and MPG is about the same.

    That was one helluva car until I had to replace it 13 years later (family and eventual maintenance cost). It was so far ahead of its time but is now so primative compared to today's cars. It would cruise comfortably at 80 and give 31 mpg. Take it up to 90 mph and the mpg would drop to 26 or 27. LOL. (And that's based on a full tank of gas, no trip computer-- miles driven /gallons used. Those were the days, 90 mph on a 2 lane road in rural Florida on rte 29 or 27.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Those are a classic and can be viewed at car shows these days. Really cool looking. The last car I know to have those small fins. Always wondered about that. Well the sport wagon, with the trapezoid window in the back has somewhat of a comeback as the C-30 Volvo. The Volvo sports car and sports wagon both were pretty cool. I liked another old model, the 164E, it was so classy.

    Wonder how Volvo is doing these days. The new c-30 has arrived, at least for taking orders. Nothing too exciting otherwise??? Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    First car I was driving around was the family car, which was a '61 Buick LeSabre. Really cool how it looked with the windows down, and no center post (pillar). Probably not the safest way to build, no doubt.

    The Accord is not too big for a car, but perhaps too big now to be an Accord. Guess we now have the Accord Stretched Sedan. Oh doh, that is as bad as Toyota Racing Development! I won't go there.... :blush:
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    There is just something about driving a car with a stick which makes you always come back for more of that interaction with the car. Could be the control, may be having to actually do more to get into motion, possibly a bit of kid which comes out, as you try to get the most speed out of the engine, along with a bit of nostalgia, I would say.
    I love to downshift and upshift, and find the right gears to get the most out of the next turn. We have lots of curves and back roads around California. Shifting is all about the straight line performance, I take it elsewhere on the flat and straight roads of America.

    I am driving a car with a 5 sp automatic, which is really excellent at getting the job done for a sedan. It won't be long though before the kid in me simply must row the gears once again. I hear the calling of a sports car! Now the money is the only hard part. Taking all donations for save the sports car addict fund. :D:D:D

    Interesting how people drive all sticks, for the most part in Europe, even in the most crowded of cities. The automatics are sooooooo very much better than the days of old, and still improving. That said, is even a paddle shifter the same fun? And that 5 sp. automatic I have is going to cost something like $5K or more to replace if it ever blows.
    Oh well, its all good. Perhaps that is the way to go, with an automatic for sedan and leave the stick to the sports car, or at least the paddle shift. - L
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "There is just something about driving a car with a stick which makes you always come back for more of that interaction with the car."

    Kinda- but after driving a stick for a looong time, I gave it up. It ceased to be fun in the stop and go traffic of the commute.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Wow, minimal chrome...does somebody still do that?

    Yes...

    image

    image
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Yeah, I believe our 2002 Santa Fe (2.7 V-6) was caught up in that fiasco. Another instance of a law firm ready, willing and able to make some money on a non-issue (in my opinion of course). Our car also drove exactly the same the day before the disclosure as the day after. I got a bigger gift from Hyundai, we had a choice to extend the 100K mile drivetrain warranty to 120K OR extend the 5yr/60K bumper to bumper TO 6yr/75K (I believe) OR extend the roadside assistance to something....I forget. We chose bumper to bumper extension.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    BMW didn't have tilt on their 3-series until the E42 or E46, IIRC. My (least)favorite non-tilt steering wheel was my friend's Peugeot, it felt like you were driving a bus.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Having been raised on the Central Coast, I have successfully managed to avoid an automatic transmission. Besides, those beautiful twisty-turny roads were too much fun not to take them whenever I could.
    Even running up and down 85 in the bay area, I never found myself wanting anything but a manual. The old Accord was a stick, as is the new one. I honestly can't picture that thing being any fun at all with an auto. The Subie is a stick to, and while it feels great with a stick, it would be a bit pokey with an auto.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    When you're stuck in stop-n-go traffic for 2 hours a day driving ceases to be fun anyway regardless of what you're driving.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    after driving a stick for a looong time, I gave it up. It ceased to be fun

    Same here, but no stop and go traffic, it was more that it just ceased to be worth the trouble. I had manuals mostly because I got more gears, better mileage, and adequate power from a 4 cylinder engine...those advantages are now pretty much gone. Maybe if we got the engine choices that Europeans do, I might have continued...maybe I'd be driving a manual trans mazda6 with a 1.8L or 2.0L engine.

    Stepping on a clutch pedal and moving a shift lever is not something that I find particularly exciting the vast mjority of the time, it was just a simple task that needed to be done.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here's a question: which mid-sized sedans don't do the plood thing at all? I know of a few, but are there others? The two that come to mind off the bat are the Mazda6 and Optima. Or does the 6 offer plood on some trim lines? Also some of the compacts-with-midsized-room don't offer plood, e.g. Elantra and Versa.

    If we all band together, maybe write our Congresspeople, we can stamp out this scourge of plood once and for all!

    (Just kidding.)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    When you're stuck in stop-n-go traffic for 2 hours a day driving ceases to be fun anyway regardless of what you're driving.

    Yeah, thats a lifestyle choice I would avoid, personally.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Here's a question: which mid-sized sedans don't do the plood thing at all? I know of a few, but are there others?

    The 2007 (2008?) Ford Fusion is/was available without plood. Our SEL AWD has piano black (shiny black plastic) trim. It's a dust magnet but much more pleasing than plood. I really do dislike plastic wood, on any car.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I can bet most people couldn't tell the difference between faux wood (plood) and real wood when the former is done right. In fact, sometimes, certain woods can look unnatural (like the dark "real" wood offered in Acura RL in the past and in Lexus LS).

    Real wood (but with matte finish) is an accessory on the Accord now, including covering the silver trim on steering wheel as well.
    image

    I don't have faith in silver/aluminum look plastics. They don't age very well and are prone to scratch. And when they do get one, it really shows. Two out of last two Altima rentals had that issue. I would hate it in my car.

    I also see Accord getting a bit of TL treatment with some black plastic (a bit matte finished). It looks good and high quality, but also shows nail marks easily although it can be buffed off so it will age well.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I'm not a black-piano finish (or any other color finish) either for the same reason I can't understand the latest fad with laptop manufactures using glossy exterior. They are hard to maintain, and show finger prints very easily. On the upside, they might help track thieves. :P
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Technically, it should be "ood-play". :P ;) :shades:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Generally speaking it looks good, can't say anything about the quality of the materials yet but just based on the look:

    1. I was hoping it'll look more like TL/TSX interior than RL or 5-series type. I guess Honda designers have turned the new Accord into a poor man's 5-series inside and out. I don't dislike the idea but it just doesn't look Honda to me anymore.

    2. That gear shifter looks CHEAP and like it's lifted out directly from Civic. A good looking gated shifter like the one in TL will make the cabin looks even more luxurious.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I can bet most people couldn't tell the difference between faux wood (plood) and real wood

    The beautiful thing for me is I don't care :) . Real or fake, the wood look is not something I find appealing in a car at all.
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