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and the cvt is neither new nor unproven. Nissan was just the first to start mass producing them for thier vehicles
That is a valid point, I think it has to do with corporate cultures though. Back in the day, domestic manufacturers used to shift model names and trim levels around annually, as a sign of progress. The Japanese makers seem to hold on to names much longer (the 70s Civic isn't real related to today's Civic, etc).
And not all domestic makers do that, you can still buy a Malibu.
and I wouldn't realy consider datsun a company. it was just the name nissan marketed their US cars as when they first entered the US.
Yeah, thats exactly my point, they changed the name but not much else. They didn't change anything about the company but the name. Kind of like the 500 to Taurus thing.
And going by that, there was also Geo, plymoth, and oldsmobile
I think retired/out of business names of OEMs are different than names that were changed. Geo turned back into Chevy, so that is similar to the Datsun/Nissan thing, but Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Studebaker, Hudson, etc. went out of business, so that is different.
I think there will be another category for the companies that went out of business entirely and the name got bought (MG) or ones that just got bought out (Chrysler). This is probably a discussion for another forum though.
If you knew the thickness of that sheet metal and aluminum, you would realize that its not providing much in the way of protection. The frame and side-impact door beams are providing the integrity. Also the reason you get door dings and what not is because the sheet metal is so thin.
The manufacturing process for the plastic panels is still kind of pricey, I believe even Saturn is going away from that.
and the cvt is neither new nor unproven. Nissan was just the first to start mass producing them for thier vehicles
Actually, Subaru was, and it didn't go so well. Then Saturn tried and it didn't go so well either. I will give it a while, although honestly, my personal preference is a manual transmission anyway.
and i believe saturn still uses a CVT it its vue. But it's nothing revolutionary. I think the concept first appeared a long time ago. the actual design is much simpler than a standard automatic transmission. From what I've read about them, the biggest obstacle was finding a suitable belt that could withstand the torque.
CVT's are great for people who get carsick. without the shift shock, people's stomachs dont get upset and people don't get as nauseated. my mom has a murano, and used to never be able to ride in the back seat of a car because she gets sick. not only can she ride in the back seat of the murano, she can read a book while she's sitting back there as well...thats huge progress for someone who gets car sick!
just some thoughts
-thene
I still can't get the MazdaSpeed6 out of my head. That was the most fun I've had in a long time. Its biggest drawback is the 93 octane fuel requirement; I'm sure they could make it run on 91, but it wouldn't be as fun.
I always thought cars requiring "premium" took 91 octane, like our Odyssey did.
agreed, seems to be the one out there that can 'put up' with the HP and torque of the modern engines. Still have my doubts however about the long term durabilities of 270hp 4 bangers.
We test drove a Lancer GTS with CVT and really liked it. It is a smooth manner of transmitting the power to the wheels and the acceleration is smooth and steady. There isn't the lurching that is present in standard automatics as the transmission searches for correct gearing.
I noticed last night coming home from the store that deceleration is fast with this tranny...no sooner had I let up on the accelerator I was quietly drifting to a stop outside our driveway.
Fuel economy has been around 19mpg city and 31 mpg highway, certainly fair enough for us. We've been driving Kia's the past 8 years, which are heavy vehicles that don't really get maximum gas mileage but are good, steady vehicles that rarely presented us with any problems.
Since the dealership had my color(Rally Red)and the Lancer GTS had the Sun and Sound package(Rockford Fosgate 650-watt 9-speaker stereo system with subwoofer in the trunk and sunroof)already installed I forgot all about needing a 5-speed manual tranny. My wife(who doesn't drive)offered that she would be comfortable driving this car and my son drives but not stick so the car would work for our family as a whole and I buried my 5-speed desires for this car. I may return some day to sticks but the way it's going they may be on their way out. I am one who hopes they stay around.
The '08 Lancer GTS has aluminum paddle shifters so I can still play if I want. They work great and you can rev up the rpm's as much has you want and then just "flip" the paddle in the + direction and the small 4-door sedan responds appropriately. I like the idea and this car and it's transmission are a good fit for us. The Lancer GTS is built tight and there are no shakes, rattles or pops anywhere. I read that people have been unhappy with Mitsubishi's interiors for a while but this one is neat and clean and functionality is smartly appointed in the cabin. Mitsubishi is determined to come back and this new Lancer GTS is a great effort by them in that regard.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I always thought cars requiring "premium" took 91 octane, like our Odyssey did.
I would assume it would just retard the timing some, like when you run a 91 car on 89 or 87. Most "premium" cars are 91, but Mazda calls out 93 for that bad boy.
Yeah I can't get over my thought that its the goofiest cheesiest thing ever. The whole idea is there are no steps, so why would you add them in? I guess I just don't get it.
I guess we're an anomoly.
To be constructive, would you mind telling us why?
The 3.6L has been around for a few years now, with no major flaws that I've heard of.
With posts like this mindlessly bashing the Aura, the host will likely be back soon.
The post about the Altima was good, full of information. It just seems like you are determined to bash the Aura without telling us any "why" info. Would you share with us where your 80k mile logic comes in?
And as for the future of 270 hp 4 banger, I think your right. In 15 years I doubt many cars will even have combustion engines in them. Once Lithium Ion batteries are perfected, the combustion engine in a car will only be for recharging the battery.
And then I will have to modify my car by changing the number of winds on the motor or the armature or the type and size of magnets used...sounds like an R/C car from back in the day.
It would be even more amazing if it actually worked. Even GM admitted the battery technology required for the Volt doesn't exist.
Sounds more like a compact at best, since it claims only to seat 4.
The purported second Tesla vehicle (WhiteStar) is to be a mid-size sedan, but it would be very premature to discuss it here.
link title
or Hybrid http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef27a26/
discussion. Sounds very similar to topics I have read.
You might want to continue it where you can find more, different, and educated opinions.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind it here it is just you might get better participation from one of the other forums.
It's the VERY reason I bought mine--traded in an '04 VW NB TDI 5 Spd. Had always preferred a manual, but loved the smoothness in conjunction with the performance of the 3.5 V-6. We've gone from two-, three-, four-, five- and even six-speed automatics--STOP! How does one ever get into high gear in everyday stop-and-go driving? Also, the CVT reminds me of the old Buick Dynaflow transmissions of 1948-1963, except without the slip--and especially the ones from 1955-1963 with the switch-pitch variable torque converter. That same device was applied to the 1965-1967 Turbo-Hydramatics in Buicks, Oldses and Cadillacs. When I press the Altima's accelerator past a certain point, it has the jump associated with the Variable Pitch Turbo-Hydramatics.
I also took the MazdaSpeed6 for a ride a couple weeks ago and compared to my v-6 Mazda6, it's quite a bit faster and more balanced b/c of AWD. I had a chance to drive the car along a curvy route that I often take w/ my 6, and the MS6 had much less understeer and accelerated out of corners much better. Seems that the MS6's torque comes in much quicker and it has quite a bit more pull. Also, I think the MS6 comes with stickier rubber, so grip was much better. What a blast! I was actually wondering if I was scaring the salesguy on my test drive... :P
I think most of the gas around here is 91, so if that's a step down in power for the MS6, it's still quite good.
I was very tempted to do a deal, but then since I bought my car a little more than a year ago, I didn't think it would be very responsible. And when it came down to it, I still love how my car handles when I want to push it a bit. Plus the stopping power in a normal Mazda6 is amazing... I think I remember hearing 60-0 in 120 feet. With the typical inattentive driver out there, this has come in handy a couple times already But I was very impressed with the mazdaspeed. Even in the dry, like my testdrive was in, the AWD managed power much better than just a front wheel drive car. Granted, my 6 only has 215 HP, but even that can get a bit too much for a fwd car at times. Add in the many days of wet weather we get in the NW, AWD would be that much more valueable.
I mean, if you've already downed your cheeseburger, gloppy cherry donut and standard Coca-Cola and you're just plowing ahead in 'D", what fun is that?
Smoking is not an option so why not magnesium paddle-shift through some + or - Mitsubishi CVT "graduations" in your sporty sedan? Makes perfect sense to me!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Okay, usually they claim seating for 5, even in compacts.
I guess we are odd balls, not only did I have a contour and like the size of it, but my wife and I each now have cars that kind of staddle that compact/midsize dividing line. A Jetta for her and a Mazda6 for me.
Its funny, but the altima i bought was the first car I've had without a stick in about 20 years. Untill I test drove the cvt altima, i had no intention of switching from my reliable stick shifts. But after researching it some, and actually test driving it, i was sold. And I always absolutely hated autos. I even badgered my wife into going down a trim level in her civic to get a stick.
I too am interested in how you know this? :confuse:
And I was driving stick since acquiring my '99 Kia Sephia in May of '99. I was fully set to only buy sticks for who knows how many umpteen-odd years. The fact that Mitsubishi says we're supposed to get 22mpg city(one better than the 5-speed stick)and 29 mpg highway(same as the stick)only made it all the more a no-brainer. The 2.0L 152hp Mitsu motor carries the new Lancer GTS around quite competently.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Me to !!!! I read in the accord thread that GM, cars don't last 50,000 miles so this isn't the first I heard about these type of ridiculous claims.
The bottom line is if you are one of those who doesn't consider Buick, a luxury brand in about three years you will wished you had with the 2010' Buick Velite Sedan.
It's built on the Zeta architecture with 400-450 hp via either a Twin-Turbo, Delphi Direct Injection, "High Feature" V6 or the Northstar replacement "ULTRA V8" stuffed under the hood with RWD, chrome paddle shifters, and six-gears to flick, Delphi's awesome Magneride system gives you superior handling performance and ride comfort. This car like most buick's we are seeing today have the gadgetology like Acura or Lexus.
I know I'm talking about the future and the LaCrosse, is the buick model we have to judge now. The Lacrosse, has been updated. It now has a much nicer interior. The LaCrosse "Super" get's a LS-4 V8 with 300 hp. and 323lbs of Tq. I believe GM, now has the most powerful FWD midsize auto's on the market. I myself would rather have the Lucerne "Super" but would like a chance to drive a LaCrosse "Super" this summer.
-Rocky
Eh, I wouldn't say what we're gonna be wishing for. ALL automakers will be advancing just like Buick, and will have come a long way in 2010 I would imagine. I can't picture myself in 2010, at age 22 (assuming I have some $), shopping for a Buick. BMW? Maybe. Acura? Quite possibly. Lexus? ZzZzZz... Buick? Let me get my cardigan and we'll talk.
They may be fine cars. I am one who places image WAY down on my list (I drive a 4-door, 4-cylinder Honda; not the coolest of cars), but I can't see myself shopping for a Buick anytime soon, if ever.
Looking forward to teaching my son in a few years. A chance for some quality father-son time.
Let's try to stick to the midsize cars in this topic.
Smoking is not an option so why not magnesium paddle-shift through some + or - Mitsubishi CVT "graduations" in your sporty sedan? Makes perfect sense to me!
So for all this talk that the CVT is so efficient, why would you want to make it inherently inefficient? There are no "graduations" its just a belt and two pulleys moving apart. I would be surprised if the car wasn't faster when left on its own than when using the video game controls.
That said, if its fun for you and you enjoy it, who cares how inefficient it is :P
Anyway I now am the very proud owner of a Aura XR. It is very quick, handles like a sports car (well almost) and gets better mileage than my Cadillac. The fit and finish are the best I have seen in a decade, on an american car.
I suggest you revisit GM and especially Saturn. I think you will be surprised at what the New Saturn is doing with there quality control.
The question I pose for all to comment on is what do we really expect these days to be reasonable repair costs outside of maintainence items such as tires, brakes, batteries, fluid changes, belts/hoses, possibly CV joints etc. My vote will go for 150k with no reliability related failures over a time period of 6-7 years or so. This would be how I personally define a 'good' car. To me, these long term drivetrain or extended warranties mean little because as a rule I haven't had anything of real consequence go wrong within those time/mileage frames for the last several cars I've purchased new - most of them Altimas. In any case - thoughts - 150k unrealistic? or maybe not too many folks keeping their cars that long?
Not me. New every 3-4 years. My wife too. So we have a new vehicle in the garage every 2 years. Put no money down and trade 'em in for the payoff on the vehicle (works cause we've been buying Hondas and Toyotas).
Cars are becoming an expensive hobby over here. But worth it.
I have owned or been responsible for both foreign and domestic and all but one (a "domestic" vehicle with a Japanese engine) have performed to that level. I have been very happy with the performance, durability and reliability of all the other vehicles.
I think I am rare in that I haven't felt super burned by any manufacturer, I feel open to purchasing anything that meets my needs and wants.
can't imagine that unless your annual mileage is low, you wouldn't eventually get 'upside down' on you loan amounts eventually (even with Camcords). But a helluva luxury, never even worrying about half of what I would consider 'normal' maintainence. Will you . . . BTW . . . marry me? I do have my eye on that 270hp Altima!
Me too. Beautiful, awesome car. I like it more than the Maxima. It'll be interesting to see what Honda has up its sleeve for the 08 Accord to combat it, altho 270 hp is pushing it (or should I say pulling it) for a FWD car.