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USED European Luxury Cars (pre 1990)

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Comments

  • dspersondsperson Member Posts: 1
    I have a choice between two very different MB's, both in excellent to pristine condition - from a reliable, knowledgeable mechanic - '94 280 100Kmi- $12,000 or a pretty '85 380SL w/2 tops 47Kmi- $17,000 (which I think is too high but it is convertible season). I've read through the board and it seems the 280 would be a better buy, but I love the 380 drop-top. Should good sense outweigh style?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the 380SL is a problem for a number of reasons....first, as you say, it is way overpriced. But if we assume the mileage is correct (3,000 miles a year for 16 years....really?) and PROVABLE, it's still not a good buy because you've paid a huge premium for low miles....so what do you do? Put it in a garage and not use it? And if you use it, then you put miles on it and ruin the very thing you paid extra for.

    Also, the 380SL is a slow, gas-hungry car, and with prices hitting $2 a gallon, are you sure you want to put in a tank of fuel for $40 and go about 260 miles on that?

    The C Class 280 is priced more fairly and is a better car in all respects...safer, faster and more economical.

    I'd only consider the 380SL if it was an extra car for Sunday drives. And I'd still make him prove that mileage with records, otherwise I wouldn't believe it to be true.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Got Hemmings and also wife got the Star Mag. Researching parts as find the time. As to reving, she is not real shy, but I also get to drive it some on weekends. Suprised me out of our left turn onto the 2 lane access road, chirped over the stripe and since I stayed in it got a patch as it shifted into second. Wife just raised eyebrow and said it was lucky mom was not around. It is fun, getting the bug for something to replace my almost 14 year old Pulsar.
  • allthumbsallthumbs Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone help with how to get driver's door apart on 1993 400E? My doorstop/detent broke - sounds like there's a troll inside with a sledgehammer - and I can't figure out how to get the panels off to get in there and replace it. Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmmm....most Benz doors I know, you have to take off the armrest (or at least look for screws there), then the screw that holds the door opener, then there are usually either screws or snaps along the bottom and sides of the door and then you LIFT up on the panel. If you break the plastic moisture barrier once you're in there, be sure to re-tape it or replace it. Very important.
  • ebekinsebekins Member Posts: 21
    I've seen mention here that the Mercedes 300SD is a decent car for a diesel. Does that same approval apply to the coupe as well? I like the look of the 300CD, and I've seen a few for what looks like decent prices. Of course, the miles are high. I've been thinking about diesel in light of the current gas situation, and I was wondering if an older Mercedes turbo diesel would be worthwhile. Any suggestions on the coupe?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think the 300CD makes a lot of sense, except that it is a few inches smaller than the sedan and therefore a bit more nimble. But still, for a car that looks sporty one would expect better performance than 0-60 in 13 seconds (turbo diesel)

    Also, the later diesels have a problem with the trap oxidizer, which is upstream of the turbo. This device was meant to cut emissions but can cause problems with overheating, clogging, etc.

    US models using this oxidizer are the 1985 300D, 300CD, 300TD and 300SD (californian versions) the 1986 300SDL (california) and the 1987 300D Turbo, 300TD Turbo and 300SDL (federal and california versions).

    In theory, these old oxidizers have been replaced/improved, but if you find a car that has one, have it thoroughly checked out.
  • orthodoc2orthodoc2 Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a 1987 420 SEL that is nice in all ways except the front seat: the leather is cracking (not so bad) but the springs in it are soft soft soft. The seat sort of rocks and gives whenever I shift my weight. Is this normal for this car? (My new ML 320 has very nice firm seats) If not, what is the best remedy?

    An upholstery guy says he can "rebuild" the seat for $150-200 (no fix for the leather of course, and no guarantee that it will be firm) and some friends suggest getting a late model MB seat from a junk yard--but how can I know if it is compatible with this car?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I had the identical problem with my 300D...it is rather common for the springs to break on these cars, and I bet that's what the problem is inside. I don't understand why the upholsterer would not guarantee the job. My guy was quite confident the seat would be firm and he was right. It was well worth the $200.

    The movement of the seat is another matter. It could be just loose in the anchoring bolts, bu the rails could be worn out and that might require some new parts or some junkyard parts. Perhaps this could be ascertained before the seat is removed, and then the new/used parts installed at the same time the seat is repaired.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    We just did a major interior restoration in my wife's 380SL. For about $650 a seat we had a guy completely rebuild the seats with new guts and new leather with a design that matches the original seats. What a difference! A new carpet set, wood trim and a few other minor details, and it's almost like having a new car.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Re; our discussion on black smaoke a while ago.. I finally got the 380sl in for a check-up and sure enough, the enrichment valve in the injection system was trash. It's driving like a whole new car. Not only no black smoke, but a lot more power.

    Thanks for the advice.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good for you! Glad the problem wasn't too severe, and think of all that clean air that's been preserved!

    RE: seats----I always felt that a car needs good seats and a nice dashboard to look at, otherwise the driving experience is much diminished. While old German dashboards aren't the most elegant, they don't look good with torn and tattered dashboards, and nothing could be worse than driving while tilting left in the seat.
  • orthodoc2orthodoc2 Member Posts: 2
    Any opinions out there about painting a 1987 mercedes? Is this a good way to get the car to look young again? Right now, there are some scratches, but no major dings. And would you entrust the car to a national franchise to paint (given that they are 50% the price of my local, but trusted body guy)

    thanks for your thoughts
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd try a good machine buffing and wax done by an expert detailer before I'd paint the car.

    I'd never, ever give it to a national chain, they will just ruin it. Either cough up the $5,000 it costs these days for a quality paint job or drive it like it is.

    Paintwork is all in the prep work and the quality of the paint itself. Even a $2,000 paint job has to be a "tape" job, and if it isn't prepped correctly, between the overspray, tape lines and possibly peeling paint you'll see in two years, it isn't worth doing.

    The only proper way to paint a car is to strip the paint off, and remove all the glass and trim. That is, as you might imagine, very labor intensive.

    If it were a Pontiac, I might say go for it, but with a Benz, they really look BAD with a cheap paint job, and their value is much diminished.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    It's really is amazing what a good polishing will do. Starting with a fairly abrasive compound and going down to the really fine glazes. Or if the car is really beat up, a color sanding to start with. I'd only repaint as a last resort.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I've had amazing results giving a car to a real buffing expert (few and far between!)
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Ahh yes, finding an expert... I would go to a quality paint shop and start asking around there. One of those places the show car people get their paint work done at. They may do this kind of work, or be able to recommend someone. Alternatively, talk around at a classic or custom auto show. Do NOT let your fingers do the walking! There are so many bozos out there who buy some rags and wax and are suddenly "auto detailers".

    If you do it yourself, which I have a couple times, stay with a high quality, well balanced orbital buffer and use the appropriate pads for each of the compounding and polishing steps. A good auto parts or auto body supply shop will have everything you need.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It all depends on whether there is enough paint to "come back". Some experts can start with varying types of compound, from rougher to finer. They of course, know enough to stay away from edges and don't abraid your chrome or stainless trim. They also know how to add waxes.

    The work on my Alfa Spider was miraculous. But it took the man hours and hours to do it right.

    Way cheaper than paint, though, and now I have the original paint job back again.
  • jace1jace1 Member Posts: 23
    Mr. Shiftright,

    I wonder what you might recommend as a used German or other Euro car purchase. I have a 1990 Saab 900 base model with 110k and a 1999 Passat 1.8T. Both are manual trans. and I maintain them faithfully. The Saab was rear ended recently and experienced frame damage which has largely been corrected and the car is in good running shape. I do plan to replace it though as it had some reliability issues last winter(I live in Maine)and now needs repairs to the ABS and AC.
    My price range is up to 15k.

    I love the handling and chassis response of both cars although their charcteristics are very different. I am more oriented to performance/safety than luxury but need four doors, firm, excellent seating, and decent reliability. I do not drive hard but like precise steering and cornering ability and will put both city and highway miles on this vehicle. There will be kids in the back at times.

    Mercedes 300E, Volvo 850, Saab 9000 Turbo are all available in this area and I am always looking for cars that are interesting and special. An E30 or E36 BMW might work. If I could find one, a Volvo 850 T5 or type R would be of interest. I could of course look for another Passat but it is nice to have variety too. My Saab has been manitenance intensive but otherwise a solid performer. Do you have any thoughts about the above vehicles and am I overlooking ST worthy from Audi or another make?

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Jace1
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...Mercedes 300E is a good solid car but not all that exciting. The Saab 9000 and Volvo 850 are just trouble if you ask me...they will replicate your Saab 900 experiences. Swedish cars of that period aren't really all that good, myths not withstanding. The record is there for all to see and review, and it isn't pretty in some areas of the total car's evaluation. "Safe" they may be (relatively speaking) but that's not all that a car is supposed to be.

    An Audi Turbo Quattro would be very nice for Maine, if you can get service and parts. Also not necessarily an exciting car to drive (in the years you'll be shopping for), but a very credible handler and very comfortable. By the early to mid 90s, Audis were pretty good cars, too. I would avoid any 5000 series however.

    A BMW 325 would be a good choice I think, even though it is not a superior winter car. I think I would avoid the bigger 7 series, but if you could find a very clean, well-maintained 5 series BMW, that would be worth a look.

    Shifty
  • jace1jace1 Member Posts: 23
    Very sound advice on the Swedish cars. They are of course very popular here but not surprisingly there are also numerous repair shops busy keeping them going. I agree with you on the MB 300E, solid as they may be, I think the lack of driving enjoyment takes it out of the running. An Audi may be a solid contender. Are you thinking 1995 or earlier 100/A6 Quattro T? Should I stay away from the Audi 90? I see they did make an S model for several years in the early 90's.

    Re: BMW, I have wondered about the 325 but they are not known for their snow-worthiness, as you point out. I run 4 Nokia NRW's on my Passat and maybe that would work on the rear drive BMW too.

    Interestingly, there is a '92 525 touring wagon being sold privately in the area, white with 63k for 13,500. I have'nt seen it, only the ad in the paper.

    Thanks for your help, it is helping me focus my search.

    BTW, I see by your profile that you own Alfa's. I think the 164 is lovely and saw one in Portland recently (they are rare here). If you are ever in the area, check out the Owls Head Transportation museum. They own and run a 300SL Gullwing in beautiful, but to their credit, not perfect condition. It is silver over red with a lovely patina.

    Thanks again

    Jace
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, yes, I love the gullwing...my buddy owns one and we've been working on it off and on for the last few years. It's running and just about finished except for some chrome work on the uprights (bumperettes) and a nagging fuel pump problem (doesn't idle well).

    Audi 90 is fine, but no very exciting to drive I'm afraid. My brother has one and it's been pretty good to him after 100K....no major issues except let's see...fuel pump, general wear and tear, but driveline on an Audi is pretty bulletproof.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    As a former owner of a 92 300E I can tell you they have their good and bad points. The car is very solid and a good driver if you do not need to have a sporty car. It doesn't accelerate all that quickly and it weighs a ton (well actually nearly 2 tons). But for high speed driving it holds the road very well and is very safe. But because of it's weight, brakes and shocks, etc. wear out quickly. In 1992, the electrical system and cooling systems still tended to have problems. Mileage is no indication of cost of maintanence. We were spending $2K/year when the car only had 40K miles on it and over the 3 years we owned it, averaged $2,500 every year. I've heard of other people who have not experienced the same cost of ownership, but it is probably the luck of the draw. Still all things being equal, I miss that car. I'm currently driving a Lexus and the driving experience is not the same.
    Maybe others can comment on the pre- and post 1992 300Es?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think your maintenance costs are in the ballpark for any luxury car. Some people claim not to spend that much but I think that they are not doing all the maintenance and are trading their cars in before big trouble hits.

    MOre often than not, when I meet a Lexus or Benz or BMW or Volvo owner who claims less maintenance costs over time than $200/250 month, and I drive/look at the car, I can see the result of not giving the car everything it needs.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    We are a bit on the anal side when it comes to maintanence. Both mechanical and cosmetic. I like to keep my cars in as near perfect condition as possible. That being said, we use an independent mechanic. At the dealer we would have spent even more! But what a driving experience. In my mind, the current E is pretty close to my perfect car (cost of ownership not withstanding).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm also very fastidious with maintenance. I need a car that I can hop in and drive anywhere, anytime, without worry. Even my Alfas are kept in readiness for that, so you know I'm crazy.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Discussed a 71 280SL awhile back and it has been running great for several months. Got a little rough and backfired once or twice so took it in and turned out to be the points, "gumming up". The car is probably getting driven a little harder than it used to, mother in law was pretty easy on it and wife is willing to rev it some, I only drive it occasionally, usually to the dealer for service. They said if it persists there is something called maybe 'grooved points' ? What would they do, that the stock points don't? Thanks for any input.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Almost like a social experience. Took it out Saturday morning to the Farmer's Market and got 3 comments. Then to fill it up and a guy and his wife in a Lotus, asked a few questions about if it was original owner, has original plates. And then getting on freeway, lady in Sebring Convert, I think, comments about how nice the temp is, not too hot or cold to have the top off.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Shiftright goes on record as saying "if it were a Pontiac, I might say go for (a cheap paint job)..." Hey, some of those Tin Indians are worth a few bucks.

    But seriously it was good to see the feature on our own Shiftright in Road & Track. It's been a while since I've looked at a Chronicle but I remember Farley looking a lot like Nigel who looks a lot like Shiftright. Different artists, same rugged good looks.

    BTW I once brought back the shine on a '61 Catalina convertible with 0000 steel wool. It started out as an accident--I was working on the chrome trim and strayed onto the paint--but it brought back paint that rubbing compound and a cheap buffer couldn't bring back. I tried it (carefully) on a Dodge and it didn't work, so I guess it only works on $200 Pontiacs.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    speedshift- The fine steel wool is not a bad idea to begin the rejuvination process for old paint. Especially on the old cars that really had a nice thick paint job. But most of the time polishing with some compounds and glazes afterwards would be necessary to really shine that puppy up. Otherwise, I would expect the finish to be a bit dull.

    starrow68 - My wife get's this all the time in her restored 380SL. Even the last CHP that gave her a ticket was oogling the car. I think I'll be keeping this car on the road for a long time to come as she really enjoys the attention.
  • kworcesterkworcester Member Posts: 1
    What is your opinion of the MB 280E (1981 model). I've seen a lot on the Diesel W123s but not much about the gas versions. The car I'm looking at is a well-documented 2-owner vehicle with beautiful paint & interior, 146k miles, everything works (A/C, pw, etc.). The owner is asking $3500.

    Thanks!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Yes, the steel wool just took off a couple decades of oxidized paint and just plain crud. After that I polished it with the buffer and it looked pretty decent for a Pontiac. And I remember now it was a Bonneville, not a Catalina. Turns out it was probably the same car my wife got rides to school in twenty years before I owned it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    280E---if this is a USA car, you'll find it quite underpowered...about 137HP pushing around almost 3,600 lbs of car. So performance and fuel mileage will suffer. You sort of get diesel performance without diesel economy. But if the car is really sharp and documented, the price isn't too bad.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    On any MB inline 2.8L 6 cyl, check for oil leaks around the cylinder head, or more specifically where the cam tower joins to the head. It's a two piece design, with a cylinder head casting and a cam housing casting. Some of the head bolts hold the cam tower down along with the head. Look around the front of the engine just below the cam end plates on the cam tower. If it's leaking you'll see lots of greasy dirt build up all over the front of the engine, on top of the air pump and alternator, and just around generally. It makes a real mess over time, and drips off on your driveway or garage floor.
    It can be repaired with a new gasket usually (in some cases the cam tower is warped and will need to surfaced or replaced) but it's a big job, disconnecting timing chain, removing cams, etc, plus you know how one thing leads to another.
    My wifes 280SE has been leaking for a long time, and even though I bought the gaskets long ago, I haven't been able to convince myself to do the repair, only degreasing the engine and cleaning the oil spots from the driveway. It leaks about 1.25 quarts between 3000 mile oil changes.
    I agree with Shifty, it's a dog off the line, it starts out in 2nd gear unless manually shifted or pushed real hard. On the highway at 70mph it's revving at about 3200rpm. My daughters 95 Pontiac Grand Am with 4cyl. can outrun it easily.
    On the other side of the coin, it's a well built, durable car, very smooth and quiet except for the creaks and rattles in any older car.
    I wouldn't recommend it if you don't do your own repairs. It will nickel and dime you to no end.
  • samzurc1samzurc1 Member Posts: 19
    Our 84 300TD sedan has 227,000 miles running good . Got some questions.

    1. Is it economical to keep vs. buying a 24,000 SUV. It has been costing me a lot to repair. But a good car overall.
    2. What can I expect to get from this if I sell it to a private party. Excellent maintenance with all records. Excellent condition inside and out.
    3. Where can I get factory wheels for this car?
    4. Should I wait till it dies on me and replace the engine (rebuilt fr. a reputable MB guy here is 4,500. w/out tranny ??i think.
    Comments and suggestions please.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say you could approach your problem with a pad and paper. If your old Benz is costing you more than monthly payments on the SUV (you can use the Edmunds Town Hall loan calculator on the Home Page), then it's probably time to get rid of it. But if your monthly maintenance and repair costs have been well under new car payments, and you like the car well enough, then maybe you should hold onto it until it finally gives out. Probably that old Benz is nearing its end, but mine is at 220K and shows no signs of failure yet.

    You could probably get about $4,000 for your car if you found the right buyer and you didn't want to wait forever for a higher price...maybe $5K if you present it well and advertise it aggressively.

    Your new SUV will drive like a dream compared to the old Benz, and you'll get comparable fuel economy, but your new car will never be as strong and solid of course.

    Two different worlds here, so very hard to compare these two types of vehicle.
  • samzurc1samzurc1 Member Posts: 19
    There is a 77 280 sl with 140K miles selling for $16,000 plus. Good deal or what. Can anyone give me the pros and cons of this car. It is the euro version(short bumpers) . is this a good classic car to buy or not. please help. How is this compared to a $23,000 well kept 71 280sl.
  • jace1jace1 Member Posts: 23
    I am looking at a '91 Audi 80 Quattro with 88k, offered for 7000.00. I think the price will be negotiable. It appears well maintained but will need to be checked by an Audi tech. Specs available at Audiworld note ABS was an option as were 185/70/14 "all weather tires" instead of the stock 195/60/14's. I thought that was interesting. I live in Maine so Quattro would be desirable. Any comments or experiences with this car would be appreciated.

    Jace1
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    91 Quattro---basically a good car, but rather gutless, so don't expect any excitement. Price sounds high, too. The Quattro system is pretty bullet-proof. Pay attention to noisy valve lifters when cold and to electrical glitches.

    '77 280SL----bad deal all around. The car is not nor will ever be a classic. Also it is way overpriced by about double real value. Last of all, it is a European model that was never imported to this country...a 6 cylinder engine in a very heavy car.

    If you want a later SL, and you can spend $16K, you should either reach a bit higher and get a 560SL (best of the V8s) for around $20-22K, or shop for a late model 450SL. You should be able to find a mint show car for $16K, and very clean daily drivers in the $12K range, and occasional decent cars at $10K or under. I've seen them sell as low as $7K in very acceptable condition.

    The V8 SLs are used cars, not classics....they were made in large numbers (some 66,000 450SLs alone were made) and their prices behave like used cars...the older they are, the cheaper they are....and their prices have still not stabilized, meaning that they are still depreciating. Probably these cars will bottom out at $10K or under.

    Still, a nice ride for the money, if you can stand the price at the gas pumps.
  • jace1jace1 Member Posts: 23
    I drove the 80Q and agree it was gutless plus the steering response was dull. I heard some valve noise too. The price dropped to 3900 but if you don't like the car, it's not too relevant. I posted awhile ago about replacing my Saab 900. I'll keep looking and appreciate the feedback. BTW a '91 Alfa 164 showed up here in Maine for 4500.00 with 106k. It wouldn't be right for me but they are rare here and perhaps someone got a nice car.

    Jace1
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    $16,000 for a Grey-Market 280SL?

    RUN! Also, that car has the weakish 6-cyl engine... No 71-89 280SL is worth $16K these days. Well, maybe if it was perfect, fully optioned, Signal Red, Black, Smoke Silver or Brilliant Silver and had like 12K original miles. Remember, grey-martket cars are always worth a solid 20% less than US-Spec cars with some rare exceptions on cars that were not oficially imported (BMW 745i, Ferrari 512, BMW M535i, etc..)

    I think you might even be able to find a decent 560SL for $16K. As a dealer I have seen several sell at auction for $12-14K, granted those were higher mile cars that showed some signs of aging but they were still clean and presentable.

    560SLs are weird. A REALLY REALLY Low-Mile and MINT one can fetch as much as $25K++ Heck, I saw a Smoke Silver 89 with 30K miles in absolutely flawless, perfect condition do like $23,000 or maybe a little better at a wholesale auction.

    With those cars, condition is paramount.

    Bill
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    $7,000 is outrageous for that car also.

    try $3,500 or so...

    Bill
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sellers need to check their Price Guides and also their reality levels.

    I mean, a higher "asking" price is fine, great...but not double the value:

    Maybe these guys are like a guy I heard about---has this old 85 Afla he's owned since college days. Well, his wife is buggin him and buggin him to get rid of it to make room in the garage for HER car (fair enough I guess) and so finally he says...."okay, it's going in the paper tomorrow". Which he does, for $11,500....lol! Only about 3+ times book value! Of course, he'll have to explain to her that "he couldn't sell it", no matter how much he tried...even knocked $1,500 off the price. Not a bad "compromise" for a $57 ad!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    When things were bad with my ex-wife I did sell my 1958 Bonneville Convertible. Red with white coves and white top....(Factory Tri-Power, A/C, Power bucket seats w/leather, power windows..etc..) in darn near #1 condition.

    I listed it at market for a nice one and got real close to it really quickly (I had a few pices of "if you ever wanna sell it call me" papers..) unfortunately.

    I SHOULD have put it in Hemmings instead for $149,900...

    Grrrrrrr

    Bill
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    those crack me up, they stick out like a sore thumb in ads (the 11k Alfa is classic). I also find humor in the 'new Mercedes engine' types, who are trying to sell an old 300D for ten grand cuz they were foolish enough to dump an engine in it. Re older German cars, IMHO: I think they're nice, they DO last longer, but MAINLY because their owners are willing and able to dump buckets of money into them (my mom and stepdad have a 300k mile 88 300E and a 200k mile 87 944, respectively). Mom says 'I can't afford a new Mercedes' but those cars get $10-15k in service combined a year, easy. People like classy cars, even if they're older. I'm sure there would be lots of 15 year old American cars around if people continued to fix them indefinitely. I don't think it's entirely a quality issue.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You can keep ANYTHING running FOREVER if you're willing to spend, that's true.
  • tbobbytbobby Member Posts: 9
    10 years ago I bought a grey market 280SE with 84K miles on it for $10,000. Put about $600 each year in maint/repair and tolerated it's weak engine. In 10 years it only stranded me once with a busted water pump. For years I said buying a used good quality car was much more prudent than buying any new car...but...I turned traitor and bought a new SUV. Felt too loyal to the Benz to even try to trade it in, so I still have it. I estimate that I'll have to eat about $5K in depreciation during the first year of ownership on the SUV. The Benz probably depreciated $1K per year over the 10 years I've owned it. The Benz drives much better, is better engineered, gets better gas mileage and is more comfortable to sit in. I should have bought another used Benz sedan instead of that new SUV. Lessons learned.
  • taylor47taylor47 Member Posts: 23
    As an ex-service writer for a large Volkswagen-Audi dealer I can only reiterate all the advise from people that say "stay away from '80's, 100's, and 5000's."
    These vehicles were crap when they were new, so they have just got to be worse after years on the road.
    They can join the lists of foreign iron that should have stayed foreign such as Fiat, Alfa, and Peugot, as none of them can hack it in the North American market.
  • killer99killer99 Member Posts: 21
    I have seen several posts here on Edmunds relating how bad the 80s Audis are. My uncle has a 1987 5000 Quattro w/5speed that he will not get rid of... To the point of it having been totaled a couple of years ago and he paid to have it put back together. The speedo broke @ 145K, that was a couple of years ago, so it must be in the 180-200K range now. As far as I know, the engine and trans are original, but he has been putting some money into the cooling system recently.
    I believe in holding on to cars for a long time to get the most out of them, but this car has lived it's useful life and keeps on going.

    I guess my question is, what is/was so wrong with these cars and why does my uncle's 5000 seem to buck this trend?

    By the way, I got post 200!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, occasionally a person will fall off a ten story building and land on a mattress truck. Your uncle is one of those few lucky ones.

    Probably the car being a stickshift helped some, and the quattro system is hardly ever a problem. Also, by 1987 the 5000 had already been out...what...6-7 years and some problems were solved already. The last 5000s were mostly bedeviled by electrical glitches.

    Last of all, we have no idea what your uncle's standards are. He could be driving a rolling wreck with all kinds of problems, none of them fatal.
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