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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Off the top of my head are extra chrome touches on the exterior to differentiate the look, and a power passenger seat.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Off the top of my head are extra chrome touches on the exterior to differentiate the look, and a power passenger seat.

    The V6 models usually have larger wheels and tires also. They definitely have different suspension components, transmissions and brakes. I don't know about the 08 model differences, but in 03 the V6 had traction control, while the I4 models did not, and they may have had more airbags. It's more than just the engine, because you can't just take the 4 cylinder engine out, put the V6 in and everything else is the same. That should be obvious. :confuse: In the V6 Accord supplement for the service manual there are over 1200 pages worth of differences.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Like I said, there are over 1200 pages of differences in my V6 supplement. The transmissions are both 5speed, and the suspensions are designed the same, but that's where the similarities end. A spec sheet is not going to tell you every specification for every little part. Even the air filters are different. Go to the Honda parts counter and ask for some struts for your Accord, and I bet they will ask you if you have a V6 or I4. They have a performance suspension you can buy for Accords, but it is only for V6 models. Why do you suppose that is? :sick:
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I have both in my car. Are you telling me that I need HIDs for something? I actually use my NAV, but HIDs seem to be more a frill than utility.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    american cars sell more V6 models because they are more affordable.

    Huh! Reality: Because their I-4s couldn't compete.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    let me know what the Accord I-4 is providing that cant be found elsewhere.

    V6-like smoothness (the last Ecotec I heard was ok, but only that - ok), 190hp from 2.4L...
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    On one hand, you're trying to defend $3K premium that Chevy charges and on the other, you're downplaying the same things in Accord for $2.2K premium.

    Just so that you know, $2200 in premium gets you not only the engine (besides, V6 and I-4 don't share transmissions), but different tuning to the chassis, brakes, additional features (powered passenger seat, additional noise insulation, homelink transmitter, exterior cosmetic upgrades including a chin spoiler and chrome touches). You don't think it is worth it? Why do you worry?
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Honda prides itself on offering I-4 models with all the features available on the V6 for those who value economy over speed.

    FordMoCo also offers its 2.3-liter Duratec I4 in all three models of the Fusion, the S, SE and top of the line SEL. I think that is intelligent even though I would wager that many, if not most, of the SELs come with the 3.0-liter Duratec V6.
  • HIDs are not a necessity, no matter how much you want it. Studies have shown (CR) that HID does not necessarily mean better.

    Wow.

    Apparently, there are some people on this board that believe that they think for EVERYONE else on this planet when they think that something may or may not be a "necessity".

    Whether or not you find HIDs to be a "necessity" is inconsequential to someone that feels they "need" them for themselves. Same with Nav, same with a V6, same with a manual transmission. There's a reason why automakers have options in the FIRST place, to make a vehicle more pleasing to own/drive for THEMSELVES.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Our definitions of "need" are obviously very different. If something is listed as an "option", to me that means it's not needed for the car to operate effectively, and therefore not a necessity, according to my definition.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Well I guess we need to remember that we are all entitled to define our own set of priorities. There are things you might "need" to have that others would define as options and, obviously, there are things you define as options that others would call needs.

    All cars operate effectively these days, fortunately, regardless of what the manufacturer might classify as an "option". Let's just let everyone have their own set of requirements when car shopping without telling them they are somehow wrong in what they have determined that they need. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    I have a 626 I4 and an Elantra I4 (the only way the Elantra comes). I've only owned or leased two V6 vehicles in my life--a Grand Caravan and MPV, and they were only available with a V6 (rightly so, as an I4 would not be a good choice for these minivans).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    At the moment I don't have time to do to much research, but I do recall different spring rates and steering ratios for the V6 v. 4-cyl on the 2003-2007 Hondas. I'm not familiar with the 08s yet to guess off the top of my head.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    You must know something about HIDs that I don't. What makes them a "necessity"?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I have only ever owned one V6, a Windstar.

    Had a number of V8s long ago when these were common, last was in 1986 (it was a 1977 model, with a 460 ci V8).
  • Just picked up a 4cyl, 6speed manual Altima today to replace our 250,000 mile, 4cyl, manual tranny G20.

    Cool, was that an SR20DE or one of the later ones with the Altima engine?

    I too am a manual trans zealot. Currently the stable as a Legacy 2.5i Wagon stick (for our needs, one of the greatest vehicles on the planet) and an Accord EX sedan stick (kind of a stress buy, a good deal, but considerable buyer's remorse).
    Neither the wife nor I have ever owned an automatic transmission vehicle.

    If they make me get an slushbox or a rubber band, I think I will just seek the cheapest one.
  • FordMoCo also offers its 2.3-liter Duratec I4 in all three models of the Fusion, the S, SE and top of the line SEL. I think that is intelligent even though I would wager that many, if not most, of the SELs come with the 3.0-liter Duratec V6


    Yeah there is a used SEL 4cylinder/manual nearby I might check out, but my wife said if I am going to keep whining until I get an MS6, I should probably pursue that.
  • exshomanexshoman Posts: 109
    Fellow grouch here. 2006 Accord 5spd. Never seriously looked at an Altima, because at that time, as soon as you added even some minor options, they mandated an automatics. At least Honda offered a stick across the board.

    Enjoy your Altima, I'm sure you'll have fun with it.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    The Accord sedan dropped the manual with the V6 due to lack of demand. Now the 6 and Altima are the only midsizers with V6/manual combos. I rarely see that combination in real life though.

    I see that combination in my Mazda6 quite often...every day in fact! Wouldn't have it any other way either. Personally, I love the "connected" feel of a manual transmission where I have more control of how the car drives and responds. I also like how it rewards being mentally focused on my driving and helps me feel engaged (rather than passive) when I drive, which I think helps me be a better and safer driver.

    As a company that caters to the auto enthusiast, I hope Mazda continues to offer their more powerful engines with a manual option... but I sense the "wisdom" of the market will ultimately determine whether this happens or not.

    I know when it came to making my decision, the fact that the Accord charged a huge premium (like more than several thousand dollars) for going with a manual and a v-6 made it extremely easy to choose the Mazda6.

    PS... I'm glad the members in this forum aren't still talking about gas and are once again talking about cars!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I know when it came to making my decision, the fact that the Accord charged a huge premium (like more than several thousand dollars) for going with a manual and a v-6 made it extremely easy to choose the Mazda6.

    The Accord EXL V6 Automatic and Accord EXL V6 6MT had identical pricing.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    The Accord EXL V6 Automatic and Accord EXL V6 6MT had identical pricing.

    At the time, Honda had an LX w/ a v-6 that was quite a bit less money than the EXL but was not available with a manual transmission. And the "premium" I spoke of related to the difference between the Mazda6 vs Accord both with v-6 and a manual - the mazda6 coming in under 20k and the Accord around 25k. Of course the Accord had leather (which I don't like: too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer), more power and an extra gear (6 speed), but the Mazda6 had superior brakes, better handling, 2 extra doors (I was looking at the Accord coupe since I didn't care for the looks of the sedan), and the Mazda6 also had a much more functional cargo area when bought in hatchback form. In other words, to get the Accord w/ a manual, I had to buy a trim level that included options I did not want and was Honda's most expensive trim level. I'm glad Mazda gave me a choice as to what trim level was available w/ the options that I wanted!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let it go please. As I said, people are entitled to define their own set of priorities. What is not a "necessity" to you may be one to someone else, so what. That's the way the world goes 'round.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Once again some of us are getting mired in personal backbiting. Please give it a rest. A couple of you really REALLY need to stop taking others' differences of opinions as personal insults. We're all entitled to our own points of view, let it be - please!

    (You've probably figured out that some posts have had a thorough treatment of my friend Kirstie's patented Post-B-Gon, yes? :P Have some eggnog and cookies - they're over there in the corner.)
  • I haven't posted much on these forums (since I work some crazy hours) but I've been seriously looking at new sedans. I had first considered I4/Manual models, but they are hard to find with the options I'd like (sunroof, leather, CD6) So I've been looking at top of the line V6 models. So I've been researching (and this week will be driving these models this week) So here are the contenders:

    Honda Accord EXL-V6
    Saturn Aura XR
    Chevrolet Malibu LTZ
    Hyundai Azera Limited

    I'm still considering I4 models loaded with features such as the Accord EX-L. But my main models considered are the V6 models. I am not considering Altima models, seeing as I've had nothing but issues with my 05...so Altimas are off limits. LOL Not considering the Sonata either *at least not until the 09 models are debuted* because I think the interior materials are kinda cheap, the design is somewhat bland and I thinik the interior looks wierd. No Fusion models either..and the Kia Optima's V6 is weaksauce. So basically I'm asking if anyone has had any experiences with these models. Anyone tested the Malibu LTZ models? I've had experiences in Aura 3.6 XR? I'd like to get as much feedback from owners who own the Accord, Malibu and Aura models with V6 engine.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated...I'm looking to get something around tax time...
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    If you're planning on mid-April, the '09 Sonatas will most likely be out in May or June.

    The Kia Optima 2.7L engine (185 HP) is rated much lower HP than most of the current offerings. However, my '05 Sonata has that engine and is rated 170 HP and it "goes." Throughout the year, I average about the EPA rating (at that time) of 19 MPG. Current EPA rating is probably 18 MPG. My drive to work is under 3 miles each way.

    My brother drives an '07 Sonata SE (234 HP) and EPA rated 20, local. The interior is nice. The '08 Sonata SE is available with I4 and manual shift, but not leather seats. The '09 might offer leather, if Hyundai follows what they did with the '08 Elantra.
  • If the Sonata is out by then I'll probably consider it...considering I like the pics of the facelifted model's interior...until then my primary choices are the four vehicles about. I just can't make myself like the Camry...it's like the car I'd choose 40 years from now (I'm 22)

    Also, for the power that 2.7 liter makes and the MPG you are getting..there is NO WAY I'd get an Optima V6, when I could have the comparable Accord EX-L I4 for similar money...18 mpg is kinda low doncha think?

    Style-wise Malibu is my favorite...interior wise It's a toss up between the Accord and Azera. The Malibu's design and color combos are very very nice...but some of the interior materials leave a LOT to to be desired...from the hard plastic door panels to the secondary controls for the power window switches and homelink system. Accord right now is my favorite but I need some extended time with all of them to really figure out what I'd want. I've also seen folks claim that the Malibu is thousands of dollars cheaper than the Accord...not so. The Accord is the least expensive of the Japanese Big three family sedans...coming in some $2000 cheaper than the equivalent Altima 3.5SE or 3.5SL. In my research the Malibu LTZ when equipped like an Accord is about $150-$300 less depending on color choices.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    Note that I said my typical drive is under five miles. I go up a curvey hill of about 200 ft in 3/10's of a mile twice a day. That's almost 1/10 of my commute and there is a stop light which usually consumes about two minutes and a couple stop signs. (2.7 miles usually takes 10 minutes, just to give you an idea.)

    So, I'm not complaining about my MPG with the type of driving I do. The only long road trip I had was when I drove the car home from FL to CT when I bought it. I averaged over 27 MPH while the car was still breaking in, and I kept up with traffic, going mostly 70-75.

    The current Sonata lists HP at 162 for the 4 cyl. If I were shopping today, I'd look at the Limited 4 cyl version. But my idea was, if you want a cyl manual shift, the Sonata SE may satisfy your desires. There's only one way to tell; test drive one.

    Good luck in your car hunting.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    You're car will be more unique if you got either the Aura or Azera. In a year or so you'll see lots and lots of the current Accord and Malibu on the road.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The last reason for getting a car is to be unique. If you want to be unique get a Ferrari or Lambo.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    It was a tongue and cheek suggestion but many people don't share your opinion as getting a new vehicle is a very personal choice for many people. It certainly isn't a last reason for many of us.
  • It was a tongue and cheek suggestion but many people don't share your opinion as getting a new vehicle is a very personal choice for many people. It certainly isn't a last reason for many of us.

    That might be true but if you are looking to differentiate yourself with a vehicle in this segment, eh good luck.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Though I would personally prefer the Accord or the Aura, the Aura would definitely be less common than the Accord and Malibu.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    If you want something really rare in this class, try the Galant. ;)
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    If you want something really rare in this class, try the Galant.

    The Fusions/Milans are great cars but aren't exactly setting any sales records (but probably more than the Galants).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Oh yes, the Fulan sells in much bigger numbers than the Galant. I see tons of Fusions out there, not very many Milans, hardly any Galants. So I guess if someone likes the Fulan and wants something that is not as commonplace, the Milan would be the choice. I like the Milan's styling better than the Fusion's, and the Milan has ABS and power driver's seat standard--or did Fusion add standard ABS for '08?

    Probably the mid-sizer that was the most rare of all in the U.S. was the Verona, but Suzuki has dropped that model. RIP.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    --or did Fusion add standard ABS for '08?

    Yup, if I remember what I read correctly, the 2008 Fusions now come with ABS.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    What kind of things are you looking for in your new car? Is back seat space important? Are 0-60 times important, or do you want something soft and comfy? Do you have kids, pets? Would extra hauling capacity be helpful? And do you have to deal with nasty weather regularly? What did you not like about the Fusion (not to talk you out of it, but just to see what issues you're thinking about)?

    If you lean toward the sportier end, the Aura, Legacy and Mazda6 might be worth considering. And if you're still in the market mid-08, the next generation Mazda6 may be available in the US (this new model is already getting great reviews in Europe where it is now available for purchase, but there may be changes to the US version... should know more within a month or two when US specs are released).

    I looked at the Malibu this weekend and was pretty impressed. The interior looked very nice and I thought the interior materials were very good. The sliding part of the center console was a bit sticky and there were some sharp points at the bottom part of the gear shift, but overall, the fit and finish was good. Nice use of soft touch plastic up on the dash (almost rubberized) and the feel of the buttons was good. Back seat comfort was good also with lots of legroom. I wanted to take one for a drive, but they were a bit busy and didn't want to waste the salespeople's time. Still not too fond of the grill, but it's not terribly annoying to me either. Regardless, it's good to see another quality competitor in this segment.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    What ever you do, stay away from those crummy Mazda 6 vehicles. The Accord is a much superior vehicle. :shades:
  • carzzzcarzzz Posts: 282
    I think safety is very important especially the side impact. 2008 Honda Accord receives only 3 stars on rear seat side impact from NHTSA, despite it is the best pick from IIHS. Honda should revise or modify the structure or air bags design.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    That is a surprising result. Looks like everything else discussed here gets 4 or 5 stars in that test. But...looking at actual test results for head injury score (which NHTSA does not consider in their ratings) changes the picture somewhat.

    Rear seat head injury criterion (and star rating):

    Accord - 451 (3 stars)
    Fusion - 471 (4 stars)
    Sonata - 472 (5 stars)
    Mazda6 - 199 (4 stars)
    Camry - 109 (5 stars)
    Aura - 495 (5 stars)
    Legacy - 473 (5 stars)
    Altima - 390 (5 stars)

    Perhaps folks with kids should take a closer look at the Camry or Mazda6, if they care about protecting them from head injury.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    The fact that the Accord got "Good" on the IIHS side impact crash test is significant. That test includes head injury in its scoring (unlike the NHTSA test) and is also a more severe test than the NHTSA side test, in that the sled on the IIHS test is designed to mimic a SUV or small pickup truck, whereas the sled on the NHTSA test mimics a mid-sized passenger car.

    In this class, the Accord,Camry, Fusion/Milan, Legacy, and Passat have received "Good" IIHS side impact scores; all received "Good" on the frontal offset crash test also. The Sonata and G6 received "Acceptable" on the IIHS side impact test ("Good" on the front). The rest have either not been tested by the IIHS for side impact, were not tested with side airbags, or have not been tested since design changes were made, so no score is available.

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=30
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,118
    When talking about reliability, we can't just talk about the experience of one person, with one car.

    I had one of your so-called "significant problem" 03 Accords as well. I had it for 50 months and 65,000 miles and even with the extremely short warranty Honda provides, my total repair bill on that vehicle totalled to the almighty $0.00.

    you spend more then that in wasted time in one day with a domestic.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • can i get a 2.5s 4 cyl (i don't need any fancy packages) for $20k. I live in Mass.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    can i get a 2.5s 4 cyl (i don't need any fancy packages) for $20k. I live in Mass.

    Considering that I paid about $20K for a new '07 Altima 2.5S with Convenience Plus package last summer, I don't see why not.
  • shado4shado4 Posts: 287
    you spend more then that in wasted time in one day with a domestic.

    Interesting. Can you provide links to back up your assertion. Or is this just your (extremely biased) opinion?
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    You are still one lone person and even though (if I recall correctly) you have had a transmission problem and even though Honda may have eaten the bill you still had the problem. Reminds me of a co-worker who years ago had a Buick something or other that he bought new and shortly after he bought it the moter blew. Even though he was inconvenienced greatly by the loss of his car not to mention a blown motor on a new car he aways..always defended GM because they replaced it "free"... well duh! He continued to buy GM products without fail. It amazes me about brand loyalty of a company who can do no wrong no matter how much wrong they do (pick your company: Ford, GM Honda Chrysler etc.). Yeah, yeah spare me the GM verses Honda reputation debate I have heard it and that isn't the point. DISCLAIMER: If my memory did fail me and you aren't the Honda owner who despite the failed transmission still sings Honda praises...sorry, it must have been someone just like you.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Or is this just your (extremely biased) opinion?

    Bingo!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Since it appears he's claiming that someone could spend more than $0.00 in one day on a domestic car, that isn't too hard to back up. But I'm sure there's lots of examples of folks spending more than $0.00 in one day on an Accord also. So... what is the point?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    There isn't a car company on the face of the planet that hasn't bombed in some aspect or another.

    In my opinion, Honda has the best overall customer service (and cars) in this segment, although Toyotas' is pretty good. People who sing Hondas' praises have a reason to do so.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Praising Honda (or some other manufacturer) or not wasn't my point. My point was, and remains to be, there are those who continue to do so despite any and all problems that turn up with their Honda (or any other manufacturer). They seem to turn a blind eye as long as the problem is fixed free and refuse to acknowledge that a problem existed at all as long as the cost for repair didn't come out of their pocket (and maybe even if it did). A problem is a problem. I have a Honda with problems and since it is our first I am certainly not willing to sing the praises despite our problems being fixed under warranty. So, maybe all Honda owners don't sing quite so loudly but grumble in the back of the choir .
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