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Note that this was not a fair fight in terms of equipment--it was the high-end Accord, Sonata, Fusion (and Avenger?) vs. low-end trims on the Altima, Malibu, and Camry. My first thought was that they designed the test to a certain price point, but that wouldn't explain the Accord EX at minimum. Would have been interesting had they compared the Accord LX or LX-P to the others, I think, or made the trim levels as close as possible.
The other interesting thing is, the Sonata is slated for a significant upgrade in the near future--nicer interior, more power, 5AT on the I4, exterior tweaks etc. Could easily give it enough to pass the Malibu, maybe others??
UPDATE: Just got the March C/D in the mailbox, and they DID review the 2009 Sonata! Some notes from the review:
"The light makeover is appealing."
"The center stack, the IP, and the center console are totally new, and they're far more modern and rich to the touch, especially the convincingly real-looking wood." (They have a good photo of the new dash; the plood does look pretty nice IMO, if you like that orange-ish plood.)
"To us, [the new nose] looks Lexus-ish." (The grille looks like the Elantra's to me.)
They also liked the equipment provided, the "big and airy" interior, big trunk, the smooth ride, the "slick" manumatic, and the light and accurate steering. What they didn't like was that there was still too much body roll for their taste (needs to "quicken all of its reflexes by about 10 percent"), and they said the platform isn't as solid or flex-free as the Accord's or Altima's. Their verdict: "One foot deeper into Honda Accord territory."
They confirmed the updates that have been rumored for awhile: 175 hp with less induction noise, 5AT on the I4, retuned suspension, quicker steering, and (on the Limited) standard moonroof. And of course the new interior and nose.
Having an '07 Accord that can't play MP3 CDs or have an aux input, I concur. For $150, I can get an aftermarket converter that basically confuses the head unit into thinking the iPod is a 6 disk CD changer.
I have heard connectivity has been improved in the '08 but I have not tried it yet.
yea, I noticed the equipment levels were off base a bit, but do they actually control what they get in terms of vehicles? I always thought they requested a trim level in a certain price range and the manufacturer sends whatever trim level they have available.
The Accord had an as tested price of $24494 I think or something along those lines and it was an EX with cloth, right?
The Fusion was priced at over $26K from what I've seen on other forums. Even the Sonata came in at a mere $10 cheaper than the Accord (yet it yield far more equipment)
7. Avenger SXT - 20,195
6. Fusion SEL - 26,945
5. Camry LE - 23,883
4. Sonata Limited - 24,485
3. Malibu LT - 21,905
2. Altima 2.5S 23,665
1. Accord EX - 24,495
And the Camry must have been nicely equipped to be over $23K. I wonder if using the Malibu 2LT would have made a difference?
I thought this was interesting, though. Here's some quotes from the March C/D issue re the Accord:
"Needlessly complex center stack"
"Thirty-four buttons on the Accord's center stack--why?"
"Wacky cabin ergonomics... fussy minor controls."
Yet C/D said the Accord has the "most ergonomic interior"... then ranked it equal to the Altima, Malibu, Sonata, and Camry on "Ergonomics."
:confuse:
Its too bad the size is wrong, I could have put them on the Subaru and gotten a different tire for the Accord in the spring.
"Needlessly complex center stack"
"Thirty-four buttons on the Accord's center stack--why?"
"Wacky cabin ergonomics... fussy minor controls."
I think this was an initial response to the number of buttons, and not knowing the arrangement.
Yet C/D said the Accord has the "most ergonomic interior"... then ranked it equal to the Altima, Malibu, Sonata, and Camry on "Ergonomics."
And this was after they were more familiar with how the controls were laid out, and after actually using them for a while. Having more buttons can actually be better, IMO.
Honda is an excellent company, but not exempt from making blunders just like every other manufacturer.
I guess it comes down to what is intuitive for some is mind bending for others. I figured out i-drive in 30 seconds, while driving at 50 mph. So if you are saying Honda is intuitive I would agree with you. If you are saying Honda is exceedingly complex, I would disagree with you.
C&R tested the Tata Nano i/o the Optima as Kia declined to provide a vehicle for testing.
I know that Honda would sell you a dealer installed accessory to use your iPod with the Accord stereo. I don't recall what it cost though.
Seems most, if not all, of the other mfrs include a standard aux jack for your iPod or other MP3 player these days. I would assume Honda finally joined the 21st Century and included one standard on all '08 Accords but I don't know that for sure.
I know that Honda would sell you a dealer installed accessory to use your iPod with the Accord stereo. I don't recall what it cost though.
Its a rebadged version of the aftermarket adapter with less functionality for $50 more.
Seems most, if not all, of the other mfrs include a standard aux jack for your iPod or other MP3 player these days. I would assume Honda finally joined the 21st Century and included one standard on all '08 Accords but I don't know that for sure.
I think the aux in has been corrected in the '08s, but it still leaves the iPod interface to navigate while you are driving, which is sub-optimal in my humble (and professional) opinion.
"Thirty-four buttons on the Accord's center stack--why?"
"Wacky cabin ergonomics... fussy minor controls."
All the three CD comments refer to the center stack. CD does not say that they have issues with any other ergonomics except the center stack.
Other ergonomics, as usual, were found top of the class by CD
Thanks but you`ve got to help me a bit here ! I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you nicely to explain what a Tato Nano is , and ask you for the source of your info about C&R`s test , so that I can understand your comment better . If, as I suspect, this was your feeble attempt at a backhanded put down of the Optima, please don`t bother responding . I`d call you a wit but I`m afraid I`d only be half right.....
Also "fussy minor controls" could refer to controls on or outside of the center stack, couldn't it?
I agree. Other than Ford's SYNC is there another vehicle that comes with some sort of affordable factory installed MP3 player interface that lets you control the unit using the head unit/steering wheel conrols? Some NAV units do it IIRC but that's another ball game given the price for that of interface. It seems like this should be a simple add on for every mfr but I've never really heard much from any of them save for Ford with the SYNC.
I like Ford's implementation the best, but the 2001+ BMW 3 series, the '05 or so and on VWs and Volvo (well I guess it looks like the European brands) have had some level of iPod integration, giving access to playlists and controlled through the steering wheel. The Ford one is cool because it uses voice and gives you direct access to any song on there. I think the Nav vehicles have more features.
My MIL has an '05 or so Prius that has an Aux-in on the console, I thought that was better than nothing but was happy to have my co-pilot to play DJ on the trip. In my own previous car, I just brought the whole dang laptop and powered it via the cigarette lighter and used a cassette adapter for sound. It actually responded to voice commands also.
Did you buckle it up? :P
The Ford one is cool because it uses voice and gives you direct access to any song on there. I think the Nav vehicles have more features.
Right on. Since I have 2 MY06 Ford vehicles without any kind of AUX ports I was hoping SYNC would be an accessory I could buy for them but unfortunately it is not. I can either buy something aftermarket (which I do not like to do), buy the AUX jack where iPod control is done on the iPod, or I can buy the TripTunes Advance and control the iPod from the head unit while it sits in the glove box and charges. But since I can burn the MP3s to CDs and play them directly in the CD changers, a practice I've become comfortable with, I've been reluctant to make any additions.
No, we don't know what they mean. Which is why reviewers should never say vague comments like "wacky" or "fussy" if they are not going to explain exactly what they mean by them. Also because it opens the door to possible false assumptions by the reader.
Since the 07 Camry came out in January of 06, this is not a surprise. I doubt it will be much different from the 07. Personally, I don't think a new model should be allowed to come out until at least half of the previous year has passed. June, maybe, but not January. It gives the impression that the car is younger than it really is (the 07 Camry is two years old now).
I will admit, however, it's getting a bit ridiculous. New model years shouldn't be introduced until the September or so time frame.
Later
Caaz
Everything is skewed anymore. Bathing suits are introduced and sold in the dead of winter, and winter coats in summer. Try buying either when you really need one!
If we're going to put rules in place then I'd say you can't call it the following model year until December.
I'd be surprised if there were any significant visual changes to the 2009 Camry, since it's been only 2 years since its redesign. I expect a refresh for the 2010 MY.
Glad to hear. They should've had a decent center stack all along, as well as a 5-speed auto. The Sonata may be back on my list of contenders should something happen to my Accord.
I'm not totally sold yet on the new front end. I liked the old one for its clean, simple lines. I'm not a fan of stick-on chrome bits. It looks to me like some cross of the previous-generation Passat and the curret Elantra, with spiffier versions of the headlamps from the 2006-8 Sonata. Maybe it will look better in person. I'm hoping the SE will have less chrome in front, and a more agressive grille.
Inside Line
If you get your hands on the latest Car and Driver, they have some very good pics in there.
True, the mileage does count "more", but age still counts.
I actually own both an 07 Optima and an 05 Malibu Maxx. The Optima got rammed while parked. Damage was minimal but I got a two day rental on an 07 Mazda 6.
Although the Mazda was tighter handling than my Maxx (which I still prefer to both cars, all things including utility and comfort considered), it was not better than the Optima. Both had the same Michelin 17 inch tires. The Mazda looked like about 70% of the way to wear out at slightly more than 20,000 miles. Ouch.
NVH and internal fit and finish were better on the Optima. Maybe I'm too old to appreciate zoom zoom zoom. The Mazda 6 was less comfortable than the Optima, especially in the lumbar region. Instrumentation (if you like red, I guess you like red) was not up with the semi-electroluminescent panel of my appearance pack LS. The Mazda did have more thigh support (longer seat), a short coming of the Optima. I didn't like the additional seat bolstering, probably because my fat [non-permissible content removed] was too wide.
I've criticized the Kia for having a crippled DIC compared to my Maxx (no MPG for example--probably corrected in 08), but the Mazda had nothing but outside temperature and two trip odometers. Hopefully the new one will catch up.
I'm not a Mazda hater. I loved my 01 Elantra but could see that the 3 was clearly a better car. Not so with the 6 v. the Optima.
Both the Milan and Fusion were on my short list when I bought the Optima. Frankly both interiors were less polished than the Optima but the cars were more satisfying than the 6 and would have been the equal to the Kia with the exception of engine power and price. I think both handled slightly better than the Optima. Not so the 6 which was slightly more compliant (surprise, earlier Korean cars I bought were softer-- probably the tires). The Mazda traded the better over bumps feel for poorer on-center handling.
Maybe it was 20,000 miles of rental car abuse and maybe it's just that the 6 is more than ready for an update. I've read that Mazda has among the lowest rates of brand retention, IMHO it's because the 3 is clearly the better vehicle than the 6 and drivers take off for more refined hot handling brands.
Unlike the (probably) last 20 renters, I didn't abuse the car and have no idea whether or not the 6 would be better on the skid pad; my preferences were based on normal around town and interstate driving.