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Comments
The Taurus is one heck of a bargain. It's a lot of car for the money. I really do believe Ford has stepped up their game. The quality of materials and over all quality of the car is pretty good. CR also recommends it as well. I don't care much for the styling, but, that is purely subjective.
Bottom line, the Taurus is great bang for your buck.
The Lucerne is another big car available now for around $21k to start, may be worth a look. But the Taurus and Azera have more refined powertrains than the base engine in the Lucerne.
But we are straying a bit outside the mid-sized class now, aren't we... so to get back to that a bit: have they looked at the Camry V6? Should be able to get one under $25k, especially the hold-over 2008s. There was that issue with the tranny, but Toyota has probably corrected that by now.
As far as the Camry V6 goes, my folks don't like the look of the Camry, and have not been impressed with Toyota's quality as of late (my dad's first cousin has a new Camry LE-V6; it's very "blah" in typical Toyota fashion). At least stepping to one of the "bargain-buys" of the full-sizers you get less anonymity and lower price.
As avi and backy said, those big bargain buys are a lot of bang for the buck. How's that for alliteration?
Those Big Bargain Buys Bring a Bunch of Bang for the Buck.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Azera handles fine - not floaty at all - much more like a European sedan. Excellent steering, handling, and a supple and complient suspension - just the right combination of ride and handling. The 3.8L DOHC V6 has plenty of spunk, and at idle, you don't even know the engine is running. The 5-speed automatic shifts very smoothly. In the mountains (including the Great Smoky and Appalachian) on the interstates through southern KY, throughout TN, and in NC, the Azera could more than keep up with the traffic - in fact, it could easily leave it behind. I really had to watch my right foot throughout the trip. Overall gas mileage, and I must note that the typical speed on the interstates even through the mountain areas was 80MPH, was 28MPG. The speed sounds excessive throughout some of the mountain ranges - which it is - but, if you don't peddle that fast, you'll be run over by 18-wheelers running at least that speed - especially down hill!
The amenities with this car are very impressive. And, I carefully inspected the interior and exterior build-quality - it, too, was most impressive. As good, or better, than I've seen from any manufacturer. Frankly, I came away very impressed, and wouldn't hesitate to buy this car.
I didn't drive it for days but from what I noticed in a short test drive, I really liked the car.
Now in 2008, they've switch to a large, single control button/switch. The Navigation screen is more recessed (further away from the driver and not touch screen).
This was a big disappointment, and one of the reasons I am not getting an Accord this time arround.
The car drives fine, just like the previous version. However, gas mileage on V6 accords is always way below EPA...and what's worse, the mileage gets worse as the miles go up. Maybe 4 cyclinders are different.
Everything I've ever read about V6 Accords involves their great efficiency, and how well they do under various conditions. Some getting mid-30s regularly on the highway.
Not sure where you hear that Accord V6 mileage is "always way below EPA." Can you share with us please?
I am a bit anal on mileage tracking with my Accord V6. This is in reference to the V6 in the 2003-2007 model Accords.
Real world city is about 19-21, Highway, 22-25. Highway was a bit higher when the car was new, but now at 80K miles, it's fallen off quite a bit.
I am not a lead foot; once in a while I will got 80mph on the freeway, but most is 55-65.
I methodically measures the mpg (not using on board computer, which is close), but by gallons put in and odometer readings.
Now, let me be clear - for price/performance, the engine is nice. For efficency relative to power, it's good.
However, I feel like "for a few less mpg", I could have gotten a even better performer.
I really like the car, but the mileage has always been much less than expected. Maybe the new VCM will make it better, but I have my doubts.
I guess the answer is if I want 30+mpg, get a hybrid.
I have an 03 V6 automatic, and I get 23mpg consistantly around town (5 miles or less drives with stop signs and red lights). I also easily get over 30mpg on the interstates. I would really have to drive like the proverbial Bat out of know where, to get 22mpg on the highway. I don't think your mileage is typical of the 7th gen V6 Accords. My 03 V6 gets better mileage than my 92 4cylinder Accord did.
My friend has an 04 Accord V6, and sees the same numbers as me.
I've never seen 30+ on freeways...unless it's flat for 100 miles and I'm driving 45mph.
I drive "normal"; I know what agressive driving is, and in my younger days, I had to speeds - Fast and stopped. In my old age, I drive average (maybe even a bit slower than average.)
Mechanically, the car checks out fine; dealer says it's a-ok. Use decent gas. Who knows. Anyway, it won't be an issue much longer.
Part of my point was it's the machine, part operator. I know people who start the car and simultaneously floor it while they are putting it in drive. Yet these people think they have a soft touch and they wonder why they get lousy gas mileage driving like a "granny".
Quite a double-standard you are bringing to the table, isn't it? You accuse people that are actually happy with mileage (getting old EPA claims, for example) of lying, saying we're inflating our numbers, when it could just as easily be you smearing Honda because of the problems you claim to have with your Civic.
My last beach trip (75 MPH through hilly Alabama) returned 37 MPG in my Accord with 166 horses and an automatic. I've had 2 trips on the same route (I-65 from Birmingham, AL to Bay Minette, AL then US Hwy 59 from Bay Minette to Gulf Shores) where I saw 40 MPG (39.96 and 40.92). I run with 35/33 PSI in my tires (F/R) and have no modifications on my Accord that just clicked to 30,000 miles. For the record, I meet (pretty much on the nose) the old EPA standards in my 1996 Accord LX (2.2L 130hp 4-sp Auto) that now has just under 180k miles. 30-31 MPG is normal in my 21mi hwy/5mi suburban commute. When doing more driving in the metro, I drop to 27 or so, since I still have a 12 mile drive into the city. My air filters stay clean (change them every 30k).
Just because you didn't achieve the numbers, or your car didn't deliver numbers at or above the old EPA standards, doesn't mean that others do not.
Calling other posters liars (which is exactly what you are doing in your post) is unwarranted and just plain childish, as far as I'm concerned.
TheGrad
Until you have experience with the car being talked about, it's probably best to not say you don't believe another owner's experience, true?
I had a 2005 Chevy Aveo hatchback, and consistantly got 25 MPG town and 31 MPG highway... less than the EPA estimates. On the Edmunds Aveo forum, there were folks claiming to get 41+ hwy and in excess of 30 MPG city. Some on that site would accuse folks like me of driving like "Lead-Foot Larry", but in my case, I also had a 06 Toyota Carolla that did approach 40 MPG hwy and the upper 20's-low 30's in the city, very close to the estimated mileage.
I replaced the Aveo with a 08 Altima 2.5SL and consistantly get 27 mpg city and over 31 hwy...better that the EPA estimate, I believe. Since I didn't change my driving habits, its obvious to me that there is a certain variance within models as it relates to mpg, and I also suspect that there are a few people out there that simply don't know how to work a calculator, even though I think they are few and far between.
Frankly, if I was an automobile manufacturer, I would seek out folks that claim incredible gas mileage, certify that it was indeed correct in a controlled environment, and then use those examples in advertising. With gas at all-time highs, it seems that it would be a very effective method of selling cars...Since no one has done that, it tends to make me wonder about incredibly high mileage claims...
It is possible to get far above EPA estimates for FE, and there are the so-called "hypermilers" who know all sorts of tricks for achieving those kind of numbers. IMO many of those techniques are unsafe or at best discourteous of other drivers, so I won't use them. But I've found over the years that just by doing some easy, simple things like anticipating stops, using a light foot on the gas, obeying speed limits, reducing idling time, coasting as much as possible, keeping the car in tune and tires properly inflated, I can regularly achieve over EPA estimates--even the old ones. What I find more curious is when someone says, for example, "I only get 18 mpg in my Civic on the highway." Then I have to wonder about what speed they're going, and if they know how to calculate mpg.
I know what you mean. As for me, my highway numbers are achieved with the cruise set at or above the speed limit (usually 75 mph in a 70 zone). If the numbers you get aren't keeping up with traffic, they should be considered anomolous (if they leave behind traffic or are the slowest car on the road, both apply as mileage numbers that should be given an asterisk).
Obviously there will be different production variances where one person would get different numbers even in the exact same conditions. If they are constantly seeing a pattern they should start looking at other reasons (commute length, tendency to let a car warm up, etc...). One example applies to my dad; on the same (same house to downtown Bham) commute in his practically identical-to-mine, yet averaged 6 MPG less. He had an obvious tendency of "pulsing" the gas pedal (accelerating to 70, coasting to 65, then accelerating back to 70). When asked about it though he denies doing it!!
Just something for all to think about!
So if the majority of drivers on a given freeway are going 75+ with a 70 limit, the guy doing 70 in the right lane is anomolous?? I'd say he/she is the only sensible one on that road.
Fortunately I drive in a state where a lot of people drive the speed limit. It's those who drive way under the limit, or way over the limit, that are the problem IMO.
When more people find out that high speed uses more gas, with gas up near $4.00 a gallon in some places, I think we'll see more people sticking close to speed limits.
My stepmother used to drive like that. She did it unconciously and us kids used to laugh about it in the backseat sometimes. When my dad called her on it she would say he was crazy. I consistently get the old EPA mileage, both city/hwy, on my Mazda6. I drive aggresivedly once in awhile if I'm in a hurry but most of the time drive fairly conservative. Expressway driving is usually with cruise set about 5-7mph above speed limit and that puts me in about the 60th percentile I think. By that I mean that about 40% are passing me and I am staying with or slowly passing about 60%.
Compare our driving to Europe. Most Americans could not survive driving on the German Autobahn. I can tell you from personal experience that left lane riding is not tolerated there (while it is practically considered a "right" here), and regardless how fast you are going, there is always someone else going faster. There is a phenomenal amount of traffic on the Autobahn, but accidents are significantly less there, probably due to the much more stringent licensing standards....unlike here in the USA, where all you have to do is show up at the DMV to get a license...
As for high gas prices slowing folks up, don't count on it. Gas is considerably more in Europe, but they are the ones with high speed corridors. What IS different there is that they demand fuel efficient vehicles, including diesels that perform very well, with lots of HP and torque. Overall, the USA does not have the selection of vehicles that other areas of the world have access to, and that's nothing less than a shame...
Or should we let those who want to blow off our traffic laws own the roads, and everyone else be damned, as you suggest?
I hope you don't live anywhere close to Minnesota.
All I was stating was the obvious...You sound like the kind of guy who rides in the left lane going exactly the speed limit just to show those "criminals" breaking the speed limit that you are going to do something about it.
I made no attempt to defend speeding at all. In fact, I do drive the speed limit...40 years of driving with no traffic tickets. I was simply stating the fact that anyone impeding the accepted flow of traffic by going at a slower rate is a hazard, regardless what the speed limit is...
But, you made a good point....most highway driving isn't so simple as two groups going two distinct speeds on two lanes of highway. There will always be idiots trying to set a new speed record out there...both fast and slow. The best thing we can do is attempt to get out of the way of these folks.
Chill out, dude!
How much this offense is enforced I don't know. It is also against the law to drive in rain strong enough to cause you to turn on your windshield wipers without your headlights on. Again, I don't know how well this is enforced.
Note #2 modify or suspend your belief that cars have more or less fixed fuel consumption rates under given conditions. The potential fuel economy variance within specific brands and models should now be considered to be infinite (anything is now possible, the sky is the limit) with only the driver as the defining variable. Using this new philosophy it should be possible for driver A to get 45 mpg @ 80 mph and driver B to get 30 mpg @ 65 mph with the same style car. Driver A is in Accord (pun intended) with his car. Obviously driver B does not know how to manage this variable. Strange...but true.
Hmm, not calling me a liar, yet you don't believe what I've posted is the truth and saying so willingly. That's talking out of two sides of your mouth if I've ever heard it.
Post 9096, which you made, is just one giant mockery of what I posted in trying to make sense to you and other readers. Thanks, for that.
Maybe I should take pictures of my mileage today on my beach trip, would that make things more believeable? 37mpg is typical with cruise at 73-77mph, and yes the OLD EPA estimates are 24/34mpg, with new ones at 21/31. In mixed driving (about 60% interstate, 40% metro Birmingham) I see 29-30 or so, sometimes 28, sometimes 31, depending on how often I end up running around town.
Do you know any good tips on the stock market? Because it seems you are able to know things as fact without any evidence whatsoever.
FYI, I am not one of those people who drives in the left lane at the speed limit to inhibit other drivers. But I do tend to drive close to the speed limit. I think that is safer, it sets a good example for my kids (one of whom is getting his permit soon), it saves gas, and I find I am more relaxed (as in "chilled out") at the end of my trip because I'm not worried about getting pulled over by a trooper and not darting in and out of traffic at super-legal speeds trying to pick up a minute or two.
And you did say that anyone who doesn't want to keep up with people who are speeding (10 mph over the limit, it was) should get off the road and find another one. I find that kind of attitude narrow-minded, belligerent, and selfish.
Also, please READ what I said...which was,
Attempting to go 55 mph in a 55 mph zone while everyone else is going 65 mph is nothing but dangerous. You might not agree with what others are doing, and you might be legally correct, but the 55 mph guy is still the road hazard, and unless he is willing to go with the flow, he should find an alternate road to travel.
I made no suggestion that slower traffic should not have the same rights as any speeder. It is, however, a safety hazard going slower than the traffic flow, pure and simple.
You may not like that statement, but it doesn't change the facts of the laws of physical dynamics, human response times, etc.
As for me, this forum seems to be dominated by a few that want to argue and complain about everyone else's comments that they don't personally agree with. Funny, I thought the intent was to share ideas and experiences so that all users could get a better perspective on things.
Therefore, you can have it to yourselves and continue onward with your little "bitching" session. I am outta here!
Funny though you should mention physical dynamics and human response times. Those are two reasons to keep speed down on the highway. The faster a car is moving, the greater the risk of injury in a collision and the less time the driver has to react, as a function of distance travelled.
The purpose of this forum is to share ideas and experiences. But when someone states that those who don't want to exceed speed limits have no right to stay on the same road as those who exceed them, you shouldn't be surprised if someone disagrees with that opinion.
Maybe it is time to return to our discussion of mid-sized sedans, though? :sick:
On the way to work there was a light duty full size van with 10 full size passengers and it was quite obvious it was over payload as it weaved around in the left lane struggling to maintain directional control.
What is an obese vehicle? Is that an engineering term?
If self-deluded is polite, I'd hate to see rude. :sick:
On a different note, I saw big loads of 2009 Sonatas trucking out of Montgomery on my trip to the gulf coast yesterday.
Vehicles that have GVWRs that should classify them as commercial vehicles but instead they get used to haul kids to soccer practice.
me: I think you're thinking to simplistically on this one, as the case was that everyone was driving one speed - say 65mph in a 55mph zone, except for a few cars in the right lane going 55 mph.
This is inherently dangerous if the traffic volume s fairly heavy. Fo instance if I'm in the right-lane with a stream of cars going 65mph and the left lane is moving at 65 mph, and we come up on a car or 2 in the right lane at 55 mph, all the cars iat 65 mph in the right lane will need to change lanes into the already fairly heavy traffic in the leftlane. They are not going to just slowup and drive 55 mph all of a sudden.
So if you get on a highway where the right and left lanes are moving at 65 or 70 mph, and you or another person or 2 decide to drive 55 mph in the right lane, you still are going to cause problems and increase the danger. Causing people to change lanes (blind-spot issues) is the danger. Drive with traffic, not too slow and not too fast.
If I am speeding and I come up behind someone driving at the limit I feel that I'm the one who should be inconvenienced and have to slow down until it is safe to change lanes and pass.
Also, if traffic is so heavy that it is difficult to pass someone going the limit in the right lane, then I wonder how safe it is to be driving at 10+ over the limit?
Part of the problem is, today's mid-sized cars (an attempt to get back on topic!) are so powerful, even the I4s, that you can find yourself cruising at 80 before you know it. Gotta keep that eye on the speedo.