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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure you can get parts at the Dodge dealer. Probably cheaper. :D

    Let's see if they change any of the driving dynamics, that's a good point. It's already very quiet, so maybe they'll just try to tune it to be more sporty.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Excellent comment in the form of a question.

    Answer: Too many American consumers are TOO STUPID to do any research. Believe it or not, some American consumers think European brand vehicles :lemon: are superior to American or Japanese brands. ;)

    My nephew got a VW Jetta AFTER I warned him that Volkswagens are unreliable and Volkswagen dealer service is usually incompetant. After his VW Jetta broke down on the freeway, he got a new Toyota Corolla, and feels the same way I do about Volkswagens :shades: .
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    So, we are to rely on your satisfied customers and not those legitimate complaints from other dissatisfied owners? Your way or the highway?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    legitimate complaints from other dissatisfied owners? Your way or the highway?

    Ohhh there's plenty of "legitimate complaints" to go around here....horror tales from Toyota, Honda and Chrysler owners. If one went by the comments on this board "Which One" would be thinking of just taking mass transit. Seeing that "Which One" hadn't driven other makes and just had a misperception, they owe it to themselves to SHOP, COMPARE and make an INFORMED decision. That would be my way not the highway.

    I see plenty of people on here badmouthing a make because of a bad experience and it will forever cloud their thinking, they'll take it to their graves, whining and moaning... I've owned awesome domestics and crappy imports, but I looked at all minivans a few years back before deciding on my totally trouble free Grand Caravan.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The "perception" of poor reliability of Chrysler minivans is due to trash talk by "NOT Recommended for purchase" Consumer Reports and their un-scientific predicted reliability crap. :sick:

    All Chrysler minivan owners but one ( including Dodge and Plymouth minivans) are completely satisfied. That person got an ABUSED, used Plymouth Voyager.

    I loved my 2002 Chrysler T&C LX that our daughter is now driving.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Your opinion is no more important than someone with a bad experience who would never buy that particular brand again. It seems to me that certain judgments are made by certain people here about the credibility of the poster. I have owned at least six different brands of minivans including two from GM, one each from Ford and Chrysler plus a VW, Nissan and a Honda yet when I post a negative comment I am shot down usually with you in the vanguard.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    when I post a negative comment I am shot down usually with you in the vanguard.

    Jeez, how did I shoot you down? Are you taking my "whining and moaning" personally - if you are, that's your problem, not mine. I don't let my experiences color every future buying decision from here to enternity.....that's the difference between my opinion and someone with a bad experience who harps on it constantly. If for some reason you feel i'm referring specifically to you - get over it!!!
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    It's about minivans, not each other. Please refrain from making it personal.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    The quality I'm talking about where VW excels is internal controls, switches, materials, etc, and this is where Chrysler and their hard plastics fail. Again, some people would rather drive a vehicle that feels of greater interior quality (and better driving dynamics), then drive a vehicle with an interior that looks and feels cheap and drives like a school bus (even if it is quiet). So maybe they have to take it in to the shop twice a year for repairs as compared to a Chrysler that you only have to take in once a year for repairs, but they're more satisfied with their vehicle the other 363 days of the year.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    You have to be kidding. You'd rather have your vehicle in the shop getting worked on twice a year compared to one?

    I say skip both the VW and Chrysler and buy a Toyota or Honda. You'll get a more reliable vehicle with the better "feeling" switches and finish you seem to like :P
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    But neither the Sienna nor Odyssey may offer all of the features you want. Sometimes I think people place too much emphasis on reliability. In general Honda & Toyota are more reliable (however their models lately haven't been too reliable according to CR), but reliability is only ONE factor to look at when buying a car. I know die-hard Volvo owners who love their car even if they need to bring it into "their mechanic" at least 2-3 times/year for something. But that doesn't bother them in the least. Volvos are as solid as a little tank driving around and that's more important to them then reliablity statistics.

    I'm not saying everyone thinks that way, but to me the Chrysler minivans have more features than the Odyssey/Sienna, such as underfoot storage coolers, swivel seats w/table, individual DVD screens, lifetime powertrain warranty, and so for families with kids who take a lot of road trips, these things may be more valuable than a statistic that indicates that the Odyssey or Sienna is more reliable.

    Could be the same when the VW comes out, especially for folks who just want to drive something different than their neighbor's Odyssey/Sienna
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In general Honda & Toyota are more reliable (however their models lately haven't been too reliable according to CR),

    Note that the Sienna is not among the models with recent problems.

    In the context of this thread, i.e. the Sienna being their only minivan, CR has rated Toyota vans as reliable all along, consistently, and still do.

    The fact that 6 speed transmission and Tundra V8 are problematic have had no effect whatsoever on the Sienna, of course, since it never got those.

    Actually, that CR rated some other Toyotas poorly sort of contradicts the claims of bias that some people make.

    Any how, just wanted to point that out. Sienna is still CR's most reliable van, has been for years now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    reliability is only ONE factor to look at when buying a car

    Now to address the 2nd half of your sentence.

    Indeed, reliability is one factor, but the Sienna still excels in many other ways:

    * most HP, quickest acceleration
    * most fuel efficient (despite being quickest, wow!)
    * only AWD option
    * only true 8 seater
    * most cases of beer in the cargo area in any position!

    That last one won me over. :D

    I didn't choose the Sienna because of its reliability scores. But I'll take that, too.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    It's good that the Sienna had the features you wanted. But if you had a car full of kids, then some of the features in the new Town & Country may be more usefull than AWD or more HP.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I liked the controls and switches of my 2002 T&C LX MUCH more than the "one knob does everything" of my 2006 Sienna LE but I do agree that Chrysler minivans now have too much cheap looking and cheap feeling plastic in the interior. :cry:

    The Sienna LE interior is much more attractive than the T&C LX or T&C Touring. :shades:
  • hause7hause7 Member Posts: 153
    That i can agree on with you Hanssienna...the new Town&country and caravan has the ugliest/cheapest interior out of all the minivans. The Sienna Le we looked at was actually quite nice for the price. We got an offer of $23,242 for a Black Le with Extra value package 2, 16" alloys, and Wiper de-icer/daytime lights. We are very tempted to take the deal. we would miss our nice Limited touches but oh well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    some of the features in the new Town & Country may be more usefull

    Well, I bought my van in May, before the new models were even available for sale.

    I have since checked out the Town & Country at the DC Auto Show, and some of the interior materials disappointed me. The "leather" seats look like vinyl, and the material is shiny, plus the plastics aren't up to par, IMHO.

    The swiveling seats are cool, but they're still too low to the ground and when they face the rear there isn't enough leg room for either row. They should move the 3rd row back - a lot. Like a whole foot back.

    I like the idea of the 2 DVD screens, but we got a 12" aftermarket screen so those screens now seem tiny to us.

    The MyGig is cool, but the Sienna is WMA/MP3 capable, so 6 CDs fit more songs than I have in my song library. No gain for me.

    That plus we already have a Garmin GPS, which works fine. Just upgraded to a 200 widescreen for $199. Can't beat that for value.

    I don't think for the $25 grand that I spent I'd get many of the features you have in mind. Even adding in the huge DVD screen and my GPS we spent just a hair over $26k.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    Toyota does make a great van but they are not without problems. Consider the huge issue with door welds failing just after warranty. Honda also has very troubling transmissions problems. Just look at the Honda thread and see for yourself. I've come to the conclusion that CR is more biased then I previously thought. I own a Kia Sedona, an 06 and CR recently dropped their "recommended" rating for the Sedona based off of what I do not know. The problems with Kia's new design year have been very minor but look at some of Honda's major tranny design flaws and Toyota's weld's failing CR does not mention this at all and still recommended them like no tomorrow. CR is biased.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I've come to the conclusion that CR is more biased then I previously thought

    No, REALLY???? Next you'll be saying the way they calculate resale value is flawed i.e...using MSRP not actual sale price, and not factoring in larger rebates on vehicles! Or maybe they lay out their magazine in a biased fashion i.e...mostly pics of imports on the cover and lead of articles!!! I've never heard of such slander!! :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Consider the huge issue with door welds failing just after warranty

    Your information is very outdated.

    Toyota in fact extended the warranty to 7 years 100k miles on those.

    Considering the vans affected were 2004-2006, owners should be covered for at least 3 more years, if not longer.

    CR reflects that issue in their detailed scores for the 2004 model under "Body Hardware".

    So you are 100% wrong, CR is not biased. They in fact identify that issue specifically, and report the problem objectively and accurately.

    Bad, bad example. :P
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Bad, bad example.

    It's not just this one example, it's a list of biases - some very visible, some subliminal?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    You are WRONG concerning DEFECTIVE Sienna Front Door problem warranty.

    The 2004 through 2007 Toyota Sienna Door Check Mounting Panel Warranty Enhancement is for ONLY 5 years or 100,000 miles....NOT 7 years or 100,000 miles. :sick:

    This is stated in the Warranty Enhancement document we received for our 2006 Sienna on December 31, 2007.

    A mere 2 year extension on this severe defect provides NO reassurance for us. We do NOT intend to keep the Sienna for 3 more years nor will it stay in our family because our daughter does NOT like our 2006 Sienna with 19,600 miles as well as her 1999 GC SE that now has 107,000 miles on it..(and she has gone on 4 long 1360 mile round trips in our Sienna with us). :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    A Chrysler minivan is JUST as reliable as either a Toyota or a Honda. Read about all the Honda Odyssey transmission problems and the defective welds in the Toyota Sienna front doors.

    Chrysler reliability problems are ancient history but Toyota and Honda are having reliability problems with recent models.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    Yes quite true hanssienna. Even the Koreans are making a very good product now. I would not have touched them with a ten foot pole a little while back but I love my 06 Sedona. Downside is depreciation for lack of reputation but I don't plan on selling my van so this does not effect me. Will probably run it into the ground since I have the long warranty.

    The Ody and Sienna have very nice things about them, Ody's handling and Sienna's power but they are not God's gift to the market and both of the companies reliability has been failing. I think the American maker will continue to make a comeback. Ford is even making some really reliable cars now like the Fusion. Time will tell.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I stand corrected, 5/100 it is, however let's look at the original claims...

    failing just after warranty

    That's still FALSE. Even a 2004 with a 5 year warranty will be covered until 2009. That can't be after warranty, period.

    The 2nd claim:

    Toyota's weld's failing CR does not mention this at all and still recommended them like no tomorrow

    Also FALSE. As I pointed out, CR specifically includes that issue in the Body Hardware rating, with a big black dot. So CR reports this issue accurately, yet they are being falsely accused of a "not mention" that is in fact mentioned.

    If you have a beef with CR, at least come up with something accurate.

    To believe the original assertion only shows that the believer is 100% biased against CR, and wrong.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, lavrishevo, I like the Sedona, in fact I test drove one and it was on my short list of minivans.

    I think they're a great value and should not be ignored.

    But ... all vans have their issues, for the Sedona/Entourage it's been an alignment issue with vibrations that sent one Edmunds member to court to win a Lemon Law suit. And won, by the way. About 6 people here on Edmunds reported having that issue, so it's fairly common.

    Perhaps a couple of Edmunds members have door issues with the Sienna, but certainly not 6. Plus more Siennas are sold.

    So the problem rate for the Sienna doors is still much lower than the alignment/vibration issues with the Korean vans.

    It wasn't a deal killer for me, even still, given $19k would buy a pretty good basic van, and at that price I can forgive a lot.

    Cheers and enjoy your van. If you're going to take a shot at CR - at least take the time to look at their ratings. I think that's a fair request.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 2004 through 2007 Toyota Sienna Door Check Mounting Panel Warranty Enhancement is for ONLY 5 years or 100,000 miles....NOT 7 years or 100,000 miles

    Hmmm, what is your source?

    I think you could be wrong after all.

    My 2007 was not covered by that warranty extension, come to think of it. I wish it had been. Why not get a free warranty?

    I'm pretty sure it was only 2004-2006 models.

    Are you 100% sure about the 5 year limit?

    Given you were wrong about the model years, I dunno...

    Edit: hansienna: you are wrong about the model years, it's up until 2006, not 2007:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-fixing-600-000-sienna-doors-but-its-no- - t-a-recall-mind-y/

    So if you think about it, the only issue the two of you complain about doesn't even affect 2007-2008 vans. So buy a new Sienna and have no worries - there are no major issues to complain about! :shades:
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    Good Lord are you emotional.

    Is it not true that Toyota extended the warranty because of the amount of customer complaints. This was not something they offered from the beginning and many customers were SOL paying large amounts of money to have this design flaw fixed. What happens when the failure happens after 5 years or 100k which I am sure for many it will? Consumer Reports has a bias towards Japanese vehicles. If you do not agree then this is your right.

    Anyway the whole point, which you seemed to miss, is that Japanese quality is dropping and American manufactures is growing. This is good, I am very happy the American car makers are pulling it together, good for us all... Americans that is.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am rational. That is why I researched CR's actual ratings, which you did not.

    You are emotional. Your negative emotions and bias against CR have tainted your objectivity. You made conclusions without even LOOKING at CR's ratings. I mean, sheesh! C'mon? How lazy is that?

    Your claims are entirely false, and spreaing myths like that is harmful to readers of this thread. They deserve to know the truth.

    OK, perhaps I am passionate about the truth. ;)
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Inhale....exhale....nice....cleansing.....breath. We are calm...cool...relaxed.

    Better?

    Continue.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    This past weekend I rented a 2008 Sebring from Dollar. The Sebring had 5,997 miles when I took it out. The transmission literally downshifted into first with a very noticeable slam. This was reminiscent of the transmissions on my bought back by Chrysler 1993 Intrepid and its replacement 1994 Grand Caravan. The car roared and had a most unpleasant back seat. Is this Chrysler's best effort at matching the Accord and Camry? I have been castigated by some on here because I made negative Chrysler comments, I maintain that Chrysler's quality is still sub-par and certainly not even close to that of Honda, Toyota, Hyundai or Kia. One of the best ways to evaluate a new car is to rent one and drive it for several days which we did. It only served to underscore why I would never own another Chrysler product.

    Consumer Reports is unbiased and tells it like THEY see it. I have has issues with CR in the past based on their evaluations. Their Frequency of Repair charts are based on real world experience of owners such as myself.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    Look at all these caps, underlines, faces, bold. To bad they don't have a crayon for you to color on your post as well.

    Back to my other question. What happens when the door welds fail after the 5 years or 100k? Are the customers SOL? Obviously it is a design flaw and should it not be covered for as long as you own the vehicle? It is the same situation with the Ody's transmissions. Many customers are leaving Honda and swear they will never buy another because of forking out thousands for the new tranny which has the same design flaw. Anyway, I understand you love your CR. I do like most of what they say in contradiction to your sweeping statements of how biased I am against them. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that they rate Japanese vehicle higher then they should. If you do not agree just say so and don't pretend you are the presenter of "truth". You don't work for them or test drive and rate the vehicles yourself. I hardly think anyone qualifies you as authoritative on the subject.

    By the way passion is an emotion... so hence emotional...
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    I agree that of course a first hand experience is best way to evaluate but lets be honest in we all know how abused rentals are. Unless you are getting the vehicle brand new we have no idea how it was driven and raced or manually shifted in very negative ways. I know personally I will never buy a vehicle that was a rental in its infantry. Like growing up with parents that were crack heads. No offense to any crack babies out there...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yep, we all know how many people rent and race minivans. ;)
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    He rented a Sebring if you look. Though I hardly think it matters. I know I personally don't treat a rental the same as my own, don't know about you.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    By the way the recall or "warranty enhancement" as they call it is for 600,000 Sienna's which is just a tad more then 6. I think this issue is a bit larger then the vibration problem some Sedona/Entourage owners have had.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    My message said that the transmission did exactly what my 1993 Intrepid's tranny did. As I was the only owner of that brand new Intrepid and knew I did not abuse the tranny your claim seems invalid. If what you say is true then every rental car should buck and wheeze down the road. I bought a used Hertz rental for my wife and it ran trouble free for years, same for one my brother-in-law purchased. Rentals tend to have better maintenance than the average privately owned car.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The envelope which contained the warranty extension has in BIG RED LETTERS across the envelope which reads:

    2004 THROUGH 2007 TOYOTA SIENNA DOOR CHECK
    MOUNTING PANEL WARRANTY ENHANCEMENT

    The letter inside reads:
    "2004 THROUGH 2007 MODEL YEAR SIENNA FRONT DOOR CHECK MOUNTING PANEL WARRANTY ENHANCEMENT NOTIFICATION"

    Is it impossible to understand the exact quote directly from the mailing I received from Toyota...or is Toyota LYING in the mailing sent to me? :sick:

    ALL the information I have written is contained in the mailing I received with return address on envelope
    Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc,
    Owner Notification Processing Center
    No General Correspondence
    P.O. Box 710367, San Diego, CA 92171-0367

    The address contained on the letter inside the envelope is:
    Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
    19001 South Western Avenue
    P.O. Box 2991
    Torrance, CA 90509-2991
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The letter has at the bottom right corner;

    "Spanish translation on reverse side
    Traduccion en espanol en el reverso

    And on the reverse side is return address:
    Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
    19001 South Western Avenue
    P.O. Box 2991
    Torrance, CA 90509-2991

    Under the address the following is written in large, black letters:

    NOTIFICACION SOBRE LA AMPLIACION DE LA GARANTIA DEL PANEL DE MONTAJE DE LA TRABA DE LA PUERTA DELANTERA PARA EL SIENNA, MODELOS 2004 A 2007

    (except there are Spanish language accent marks that are not on my computer)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Save your breath here. Some people on here would bash domestic OEMs til they're blue in the face based on a bad experience 30 years ago, or based on someone else's bad experience - not even their own! They'll make broad sweeping allegations like "it shifts like my other POC brand I owned 15 years ago". They can accuse you of biases against CR, while denying their own biases. As I've listed numerous times....the biases are so obvioius with CR. Pick up almost any issue and rarely do you see a domestic car on the cover, go to the start of their auto articles and see what pics you see? Note that they can approve any totally redesigned Japanese car based on prior history but let an OEM slap a new bumper on their car, and even if the previous version had an average rating (which is a major accomplishment), the slightly new model is too new to rate? Look at the recent Pickup issue where they slammed GM's new trucks by not equipping them same as the Tundra (or they would have won). There's an ongoing bias with CR but some just want to ignore it cause it supports their biases!

    You must kneel at the alter of CR, stare at the little red dots and chant "ummmmm Japanese cars are great ummmmm" and you will find the inner peace you desire!!
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    How much faith can you really have in Consumers Report? Or at least people being honest in reporting their vehicles. When you look at the ratings of Toyota for instance, all you see is red dots and glaring reports on how good they are. Pretty much the same on all Japanese vehicles. But do we ever hear about things like this? Why is it that these things never seem to come out in CR or the news? Americans are making some pretty darn good vehicles now, but they get little credit for it.

    Do we want to put the American automotive industry out of business and increase our debt? I mean we have already flooded the world with our dollars that have sank the value of it to new lows. Maybe it's times to look at what America has to offer again. You might be surprised at how good they are.

    Toyota recalled more vehicles than it sold in the U.S. last year

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts

    The Mitsubishi Motors recall cover up is a corporate scandal

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DeLarge/recall
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Or at least people being honest in reporting their vehicles.

    I got me first CR survey after buying my 2005 Dodge Minivan....though I think it was because of my membership in CR (which my parents give me for xmas every year). I was the most difficult booklet to fill out, I started in good faith and after about page 4 said enough is enough! So my totally trouble free vehicle isn't represented for sure, but then, I don't need CR to feel good about my purchase.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Member Posts: 312
    Here here! I also have had some excellent experiences with American manufactures. My Mustang GT has been awesome. My first Car an 80 Olds Cutlass Supreme was a great car for the time I owned it, I had a Saturn SL2 for a while which I traded at 186,000 without any problems to mention a few. I purchased my Sedona for my wife because of price and features. When I looked at the Caravan in late 06 I did not like the lack of features but now the new Grand Caravan is much better. I have met many many people who get close to 200,000 miles on Caravans without major problems.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    My beef with CR is that they are making judgments about reliability and quality for new cars. The truth is that we won't know reliability and design problems or quality issues associated with certain cars until they get some mileage and years behind them. It wasn't fair to give that glowing review of the Odyssey for years when the model was new. Most cars don't have problems until after 50,000 miles or so. I don't know how anyone can rate a model less than 5 years old. I'm not at all surprised by the Odyssey transmission showing major defects now because they now have enough miles on them to earn the reputation Chrysler earned back in the mid 1990's.

    The other things CR tests are definitely a matter of taste. I like my cushy, quiet, ultra smooth, soft steering Town and Country. The CR reviewers do not. They prefer the Japanese feel in their cars. I can't say one is better than the other -- its a matter of personal taste. I remember years ago CR reviewed fast food. They raved and raved about McDonalds chocolate shakes (not even milkshakes in those days). I found the older pre-real ice cream McDonalds shakes gross. To each his own.

    In general you are better making your own inquiries and observations. I made a mistake a few years ago by buying a front loading washer. CR says that the front loading washing machines are better than their top loading counterparts. They say the front loader washers are easier on the clothes and put less wear and tear on the clothes because they don't have an agitator to pull, twist and wear on the clothes. Prior to purchasing I wish I listened to a friend who told me she was disappointed in her front loader because it did not clean the clothes as well as her older top loader. I did not listen. Now I find I have paid substantially more for a washer that does not clean the clothes very well. And I have never lost any clothes due to them being worn out by a washer. CR's observations were worthless.

    My observations about the Kia's is that you get a lot for your money. They are too new and have too few miles on them for me to make any observations about reliability or design. There are several insecure minivan owners on these board who need to constantly reassure each other that they have not erred in their auto purchases. Be happy with your Kia and relax. CR can't possibly have any significant amount of data from which to draw any conclusions about your van. I spent yeara thinking my van was a POC until it kept racking up the miles problem free.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    How can you have the kind of problems Toyota is having and not have it show in CR? Why isn't it even carried in most of the papers? Even the Japanese government is threatening to sue Toyota for the cover up of recalls.

    My Brother had a 2001 Plymouth minivan he bought new. He just traded it in this year for a 2006 Dodge minivan. Only problem he had in six years was a freeze plug and brakes needed replacing.

    I have a 2005 Dodge GC. In 39 months, the only problem I have had, and it just started, is the rear hatch latch is sticking, not allowing the motor to lift the tailgate up. It doesn't happen all the time and I am going to put some graphite on it first before taking it in to see if that doesn't clear up the problem.

    My Sister has a 2006 Chrysler minivan that has already made two round trips out here to Arizona, from Ohio ( over 8,000 miles) and has no problems with hers yet with over 35,000 miles on it.

    My family wouldn't by these vans if they were junk and had a lot of problems. My Brother sure wouldn't buy another if he had a lot of problems with the first one.

    Stow and go is a fantastic idea. Mine has been a work horse for me. From moving my daughter, to carrying electric wheel chairs and scooters for my Mom and other Sister. After three years, it still looks great. We own a Honda Civic, so it's not that I don't like foreign vehicles. I'm just telling it like it is.

    http://www.carspace.com/marine2/Albums/marine2%27s%20Album/HPIM0133.JPG/page/pho- to.html#pic
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    "How much faith can you really have in Consumers Report? Or at least people being honest in reporting their vehicles. When you look at the ratings of Toyota for instance, all you see is red dots and glaring reports on how good they are. Pretty much the same on all Japanese vehicles."

    If you check CR, you'll see they've withdrawn recommendations of Toyota products due to the problems you cited which they've seen documented in their surveys. Their surveys aren't perfect, but they're pretty good information, and frequently tend to be consistent with broader trends.

    "My beef with CR is that they are making judgments about reliability and quality for new cars.
    ...
    In general you are better making your own inquiries and observations.

    I made a mistake a few years ago by buying a front loading washer. CR says that the front loading washing machines are better ... Prior to purchasing I wish I listened to a friend who told me she was disappointed in her front loader because it did not clean the clothes as well as her older top loader. I did not listen. Now I find I have paid substantially more for a washer that does not clean the clothes very well. ... CR's observations were worthless."

    Ahh, it's wrong for CR to make judgments, but perfectly fine for you to? Fine for you to judge CR's reliability estimates on the basis of your personal experience with one front-load washer? I don't understand your logic here.

    CR is one source for reliability information (there are others), and also for testing information. Scrutinize them as you would any source.

    And now, back to minivans ... :)

    How has the swivel-n-go worked out for those using it?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you check CR, you'll see they've withdrawn recommendations of Toyota products due to the problems you cited which they've seen documented in their surveys. Their surveys aren't perfect, but they're pretty good information, and frequently tend to be consistent with broader trends.

    Thanks for stating this better than I could.

    I never said I loved CR. I was playing Devil's Advocate when they were attacked and criticized of bias. The example given proved the opposite - CR in fact did rate the Body Hardware poorly for the 2004 Sienna.

    The funny thing is that bogus claim ended up having the opposite effect from what was intended - it showed that CR was not biased, at least in this specific example - the door weld issue was reflected accurately in their scores.

    As dbt put it, they "frequently tend to be consistent with broader trends".

    Indeed.

    The 600,000 vs. 6 comparison is absurd. Potential number of vans affected doesn't mean 600,000 were affected. They're just being covered if there is a problem. Have it inspected at 99k miles. If the problem has not appeared by then, it likely never will. This is just common sense.

    As for the Entourage/Sedona vibration/shimmy issue, they've issued TSBs (who knows how many vans are covered), but the problem still has not been fixed for many Edmunds members. To me that is a bigger concern - it's unresolved.

    Back to the van discussion - my 2007 wasn't included, nor were the 2008 models. So if you're shopping for a new van today, there are no major issues to be concerned about.

    No van is perfect, of course not, nobody made that claim.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    Nobody said CR is wrong to make judgments, it is their livelihood to do so. But since they actually make money by making judgments, I trust myself more than I do them. I know what I like better than they do and I trust what I observe as far as reliability goes. I simply find CR judgments worthless, irrelevant and differing from reality.

    As this poster, like myself, has experienced similar observations of reality vs CR, I responded to him telling him not to worry about what CR says about his Kia - they don't know what they are talking about IMO. You are welcome to regard their judgments and let them influence your purchases but my post wasn't directed toward you. In general I believe people would be happier with their purchases if they used their own observations and asked real people they know who own the product how they like it. Some may disagree, it is their option to do so.

    In general, it is hard to dispute somebodies experience and I think it is a mistake to do so with most issues in life. My front-loader washer poorer cleaning observations have been echoed by several women I know using several brands. I know what I see - clothes that look dirty even after washing on the super-cycle, pre-wash, stain-treat program that lasts 1:40 for 1 load. Wish I listened to people I know and trust instead of strangers.

    Back to minivans. Don't have my swivel seat van yet so I can't comment.
  • maryh3maryh3 Member Posts: 263
    In their time - CR gave good recommendations for the Oddy, when, as I pointed out, they had little mileage on them. It wasn't until this:

    http://www.hondatransmissionsettlement.com/php/pdf/caht1faq.pdf

    that they had to acknowledge "issues". Unfortunately it is hard to know what to expect from an auto until they are tested out in the field for a few years. CR should be used for hindsight - not foresight.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I have a 2005 Dodge GC. In 39 months, the only problem I have had, and it just started, is the rear hatch latch is sticking, not allowing the motor to lift the tailgate up. It doesn't happen all the time and I am going to put some graphite on it first before taking it in to see if that doesn't clear up the problem.

    I went to the store this morning and bought some Mr. Zip, extra fine graphite, and that seems to fix my latch problem on my rear hatch. So it's 39 months and counting with no problems to take it back to the dealer for.
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