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Half-ton Pickups - The full field

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Comments

  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    drfill, where can I read your column? Man, you are good.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    You should've seen me when I was young....I was a real pistol! Thanks. :)

    DrFill
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Actually, Toyota and their competitors know where sales acquisitions are coming from as they are constantly monitoring the market.

    Based on what I know I think you'll find that Ford is losing more to Tundra than Chevy, Dodge, or Nissan, but a very large portion of Tundra sales are coming from people that have previously owned Toyota products.

    I was by our Toyota dealer just a few day ago and saw three Titans on their lot. Of course, lot watching is not necessarily accurate since dealers buy from wholesalers.

    Look for the stock code on a vehicle. A "P" prefix will often mean "purchased."

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Ok, Mr Salesman, I'll bite. Tell me about these "holes" and "what's what". In other words, tell me why I should buy a Tundra over a GMT900. And please don't waste my time with answers such as:
    1. Toyota's reliability history, they have NO history building 1/2 ton trucks. And so far, their reliability with the new Tundra is a huge ?.
    2. 0-60 times...irrelevant, let's stick to truck practicality and capability.
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    hey toykicks

    Whoever said OnStar was "free"? Not me, not anyone. I said it was "standard". Of course it costs after the first year, just like the internet service you pay for to post your silly responses.

    1offroader
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Selling a Tundra against a domestic is exceedingly easy, as I've done it. They targeted 3/4 tons in design and interior styling, and looked to set new standards in interior features and safety.

    Design and interior styling??? Are you kidding??? Even diehard Tundra owners admit to the ugly styling both inside and out. It is the worst interior styling I've ever seen in a modern full size pickup. It is really jarring to look at inside and, frankly, that's where the driver spends all of his/her time. You don't see the outside when your behind the wheel which, in Tundra's case, is a blessing.

    It looks like a cross between the Ford and Dodge. But, like two decent-looking parents, they occasionally have an ugly offspring. Hey, it happens.

    1offroader
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    My bad. Sorry. :blush:

    I meant to say frame design/chassis (3/4), with new levels of safety/value features (vs other 1/2 tons).

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I'll only give you the outline:

    1. Cargo/Passenger Space
    2. Max Power/Capability
    3. Safety Features
    4. Standard value features.
    5. Incentives (after test drive)

    15 minutes, then a test drive, it's all over but the washin'. ;)

    DrFill
  • dennisplusdennisplus Member Posts: 20
    But if you drive the Tundra, and have a good salesman show you what's what, you will pause before getting ANY domestic truck.
    I went to a Toyota Dealership to see what they had to say. There was NO WAY!!! They were going to convince me to buy a Tundra! Dodge all the way
  • toykickstoykicks Member Posts: 95
    well thats true but i'm near a hot spot lol so its free broadband ;). Onstar runs 50 bucks a month ? and additional charges for calls or operator use right?
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    $50/month??? Wrong, try $199/year ($16.58/mo) for standard service. Service with Navigaton is $299/yr.

    Cell minutes are .40/min. Admittedly, this is a ripoff, but who cares, most people have their own cell phone anyway.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    1. Cargo/Passenger Space
    2. Max Power/Capability
    3. Safety Features
    4. Standard value features.
    5. Incentives (after test drive)

    15 minutes, then a test drive, it's all over but the washin'

    1. yep, crewmax has a bigger back seat....and a smaller bed. Depends on which you'd prefer, but I'll take the bigger bed. The tundra also lacks headroom, partly due to the lack of 12 way power seats with no height control.
    2. Max power? Techinically, wrong, the 6.2 has 403 HP and 401 lb-ft. But 5.7 vs 6.0...14 hp difference. Capability? Again, towing cap depends on config, payload the Tundra falls short in most configs.
    3. Safety Features? Please elaborate, the GMT900s have the same features available, just because they are not std, does not mean they are not available. Oh, and what about the 4 stars the tundra received in the nhtsa test? Oh yeah, they don't count, right?
    4. Std value features? Huh? the GM900s have more available features and a lower bottom line cost. I'd call that a better value.
    5. Not sure what you mean by this, but I drove one (as well as a Ford and Dodge) and I didn't buy one, not even close!!!

    The interior in the Tundra is a complete joke. Not to mention the butt-ugly exterior.

    Nice c-channel frame too BTW.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Funny, but wrong. Styling is subjective. I like it and most of the people I know love how it looks. I never hear anyone complain that the exterior or interior looks bad. You want to talk about ugly interior and exterior styling, look no further than the melted candybar inspired previous generation of F-150's. Yuck. Thankfully Ford got it right with the current one.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Which GM model do you have to buy the get the 6.2L? I thought they only came in the Escalade and the 367HP version was the top dog in the Chevy.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Funny, but wrong. Styling is subjective.

    Kinda hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

    You mean to tell me you have NEVER heard anyone say the new Tundra is ugly? Even I can admit the nose of the new Silvy's is ugly, I prefer the Sierra's look over any new truck.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Sierra Denali has the 6.2/6 spd. As does the Yukon Denali.

    6.2 liter is 403 HP/401 lb-ft and the 6.0's are 367 HP/375 lb-ft.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The only truck that I can't stand is the Silvy. The Titan is so ugly, it actually looks tough.

    I like the Ford Flareside. Too bad a Prius will smoke it like a blunt. :blush:

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Yep, and the Tundra is so ugly, it actually looks......well, ugly. :P
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    And my Dad can beat up your Dad!

    Let's keep this on at least a High School level, k?

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    K...I was just making a joke/play on your words, sheesh, touchy aren't we?

    Oh, and I am sure he could, my Dad is dead.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Hah!! You forgot to mention the double starting remote start that the Tundra has that many are asking the dealer to remove. Oh that's right its all trolls over at TS.com that are creating topics on such nonsense.
  • 12ozcurls12ozcurls Member Posts: 65
    Unless it's raining and the pruis is sitting in a puddle of water, a dirt road, at the bottom of a very shallow hill. That thing isn't going anywhere in slippery conditions...

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/05/prius_traction.html
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Frame/chassis design like 3/4 ton??? Again, you've got to be kidding. The riveted c-channel frame is a joke. Like I said, the Tundra is wearing thong underwear underneath the ugly exterior and interior. Like Rosie O'Donnell wearing a thong...

    Try again, fill.

    1offroader
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Don't forget the less-than-impressive payload capacities...even for a 1/2 ton, let alone a 3/4 ton. 1495 lbs in the 4x4 Crewmax ltd??? Gimme a break!!! (FYI, the GMT900 4x4 Crewcabs Payload is 2039 lbs). Maybe Toyota oughta have reinforced that riveted C-channel under the bed too and called it a "DoubleTech"...LOL
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Basic OnStar is about $120 per YEAR, but I haven't had to buy it yet so don't know the exact figure. I'm sure you can Google it. Call time is extra. I just bought 60 minutes for, as I recall, about $15.

    I will sign up again for OnStar in a heartbeat. It could save my life, or my family's lives. If I lock my keys in while I'm hunting/camping/fishing, it will unlock my door. What would a locksmith charge to come out to Bugtussle, Montana and unlock my door? What is all that worth?
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Priceless.

    1offroader
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/163_0706_full_size_truck_comparison

    DrFill
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Great article, and I didn't notice any of the big problems with the Tundra so talked about in this forum. In fact, I thought I saw the phrase "raised the benchmark" referring to the big T. Funny how the "inherently inferior" C-channel frame was never made mention of?? If nothing else, it just proves that Toyota has built a great truck that is extremely competent in every respect, and not inferior to the domestics in any way. In all fairness, my bro-in-laws '07 fully loaded Silverado is a very nice truck, and the interior is impressive (his is black/black). I certainly wouldn't kick it out of my garage, but based on past experience and observations of GM products, I will reserve final judgement on GM's newly refined interiors until I see one that still looks good after a few years. I like my car-pool partners '07 F-150 XLT quite a lot, too. I even think the Dodge is a very nice truck... but for me the deal breakers are 1) reliability; and I know the domestics trucks are usually better than their cars, but hey, once bitten twice shy. Twice bitten, you get the picture. 2) powertrain sophistication. Toyota wins in this regard, hands down.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    As to why Toyota keeps Payload numbers low, as they overloaded the truck, and it had plenty of travel left. It proved more than up to any challenge they threw at it. :)

    It can handle, at least, anything the GM could. It proved that.

    DrFill
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Yep the Tundra owners are complaining alright:

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/110941-whats-the-deal-remote-starte- r/

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/106405-southern-california-bed-boun- ce/

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/106054-2007-tundra-vibration-issues- /

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/100518-camshaft-failures-in-new-5-7- -a-4/

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/108388-potential-transmission-failu- re/

    nuff said
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I don't think you want to compare problems, or disgruntled owners, domestics vs Toyota, do you? ;)

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    I would...between the Tundra and the GT900's. Go to TS and read the dozens and dozens of pages filled with complaints on the new Tundra. Everything from the tranny's to the interior paint rubbing off of the cheap painted dash and other panels. The post above doesn't even scratch the surface (no pun intended). Then go to the GM forums and try to find even a fraction of the number of complaint threads about the GMT900s. Report back your findings.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Surely you do realize that the suspension alone does not dictate Payload or GVWR capacities, right? I would say the Tundra's suspension is a bit heavy for the wimpy frame.

    How did it prove that it was as capable as a GM? Just because it didn't bottom out the suspension? You have alot to learn about truck chassis' my friend.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Explain away losing a thrid direct comparison to the Tundra. ;)

    Three strikes. You know what that means.

    Someone got it right. And it wasn't GM. You seem surprised? :confuse:

    I know the Silvy struggles with sales much more than Tundra does with loads. Can you explain that? :blush:

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Explain away losing a thrid direct comparison to the Tundra.

    Three strikes. You know what that means.

    Someone got it right. And it wasn't GM. You seem surprised?

    I know the Silvy struggles with sales much more than Tundra does with loads. Can you explain that?

    3rd direct comparison by whom? A Magazine...Um ,ok, whatever. I bet I can find at least 3 magazine or other bogus/biased rags that favor the Silvy too. Oh, and don't even bring up the Toaster analyzer named CR. You want to lean on that crutch, by all means, whatever makes ya feel better.

    I'd say GM got it right, they aren't replacing tranny's, engines, driveshafts, etc on the GMT900's are they? And the complaints on the forums about numerous build quality issues are 10:1 in favor of GM.

    Sales? Speak to me when Toyota sells over a million Tundra's per year. Until then, percentages don't mean squat. 50% of nothing is still nothing.

    Oh, how's Toyota doing on the 1/2 ton diesels and HD trucks? Again, until then, Tundra is a wannabe in the American truck market.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Tundra? Perhaps cancel the $3K buying incentive? Which really makes me curious as to what September sales will be like...

    Toyota Tundra
    July 2007: 23,150
    August 2007: 18,919
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    You are not a Big 3 exec?

    I heard this schpeel when Taurus was the best-seller, and Camry was small potatoes.

    And when Ford Ranger was untouchable, and Toyota's truck was plotting along.

    Or when Cavalier was a hot seller, and Corolla was quiet as kept.

    Or when Cadillac......

    Rome is burning, and you don't even smell the smoke.

    I like it. Keep it comin'! :shades:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    So now 18k is a bad month for Tundra?

    Do you guys hear yourselves?

    This is rich! LOL!! :P

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Nope, 18K is good for the Tundra, but how good would that number be for the GMT900's? If you think Toyota is going to overtake the Domestics with a 1/2 ton Tundra like the Camry did to the Taurus in the 80's, you are dreaming. It's a completely different ballgame my friend. The domestics offer a complete line of trucks, from LD 1/2 tons right on up through 1 ton dually's. GM (and Ford and Dodge soon as well) will also be offering Diesels in the 1/2 tons in the next couple of years, what's Toyota's plan for that? The domestics are suffering a bit right now from a poor housing/construction market. You know why Toyota isn't suffering from this? Because people who buy trucks for real work do not buy Tundra's anyway. They are Home Depot runners and driveway queens with owners who think 6 spd trannys and 0-60 times are more important than real work truck capabilities and longevity. This Tundra will sell well this year (relative to it's previous measly 125K sales), but I can't wait to see it's sales growth tumble when the hype wears off and the new Fords and Dodges come out. Enjoy this while you can.

    In the meantime, Toyota will have it's hands full debugging this Tundra and getting it up to where the GMT900's (and the new Ford and Dodges) are at build quality-wise. Starting with the frame. Cheap interiors and fancy electronics only get you so far in this segment.
  • toykickstoykicks Member Posts: 95
    lol i dont even bother reading those post. There is so many trolls in TS.com Theyve busted so many trolls saying they had electrical and engine problems and their lies didnt match some had over 800-1000 posts ;) Maybe the GM marketing team in action or ford :confuse: Its kinda funny people would sign up to TS.com just to harass other tundra owners and tell them how crappy their trucks are. A lot of chevy/gmc vs. tundra threads.. Someone would post how quite their engine sounds then someone would open a thread of how load it sounds with in minutes. Someone would post how seamless the transmission shifts and a few minutes later another person would counter and post transmission problems.. 100s & 100s of posts like this. Some trolls get caught in action and get banned but theres a few who are still spreading crap.. So i dont even bother going to their threads pretty sad how far some people would go to compensate for their purchase. TS.com isnt the only one getting flooded with trolls so are other toyota forums and all of which just started to happen recently.. i wish i could get payed to troll around other websites lol
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Sure, there are few trolls on every forum. But for you to claim and think that it's the majority rather than a very small minority is either plain ignorance or denial. I would bet less than 1% of the complaint posts on the TS forum is troll related. I also find it very entertaining that whenever a Toyota owner posts an issue, he/she right away gets labeled as a troll, as if it's absolutely impossible that a Tundra could actually have a real issue. As big of a domestic/GM fan as I am, at least I can admit that they, as well as every mfr has issues and is not perfect. So, are the relatively few complaint posts on the GM forums Toyota trolls then? Or aren't they capable of such nonsense since they are so much wiser than domestic fans?
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    It is a well known fact that TUNDRA SOLUTIONS is filled with domestic owning liars and trolls. And it looks like some of them have found there way here as well.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Don't throw salt in their game...... ;)

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    So now I am a liar and a troll too huh? Just because I am a domestic fan? Typical.

    De-Nile is a river in Egypt.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    A spirited debate is fine... don't get personal.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • dennisplusdennisplus Member Posts: 20
    Every part in a Tundra can be upgraded on a Dodge GM or Ford except for the engine. Lets talk pure power.
    Dodge Ram Hemi 5.7L VS. Toyota tundra iForce 5.7L.
    Even drivetrain can be changed on any truck.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Tundra
    Horsepower: 381 hp
    Max Horsepower: 5600 rpm
    Torque: 401 ft-lbs.

    Ram
    Horsepower: 345 hp
    Max Horsepower: 5400 rpm
    Torque: 375 ft-lbs

    So what's your point?
  • dennisplusdennisplus Member Posts: 20
    :shades: well HP obviously isn't everything because my 345 kicked the crap out of that 381. I'm talking pure muscle.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    To think that you would disregard CR as biased is completely laughable. They are one of only a small handful independent sources that reports on the facts as reported from actual users of the product. A Toyota customer is going to be a lot more nitpicky because they have learned to expect a lot from their cars. Don't even try to tell us that GM owners have those same expectations - no one I know who drives a GM even has a clue what quality is. They built such shoddy cars for such a long time that when they finally do build a decent car, their normal customer base thinks it's so amazingly good they can't stop gushing. I don't care if they do, I think it's great that GM is finally taking quality seriously. But just because you can find some complaints on Toyota doesn't mean they have all of a sudden started building crap. Lets keep this real.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    If CR is not biased, then explain to me why they did the towing comparison between the Silvy and the Tundra the way they did. They equipped the Tundra with the top engine/drivetrain config (5.7, 6 spd, 4.30 rear end) and compared it to a Silvy with the 5.3 liter and a 3.73 rear end. Yeah, that is "Apples to Apples" isn't it? Face it, the ONLY people who do not agree that CR is asian biased is the asian fans.

    CR is a joke, they should stick to rating Washers and Dryers and Toasters and leave the Automobiles to people who know something about them. They do NOT just report on what people say, they conduct their own tests and have no clue what they are doing.

    The rest of your post just illustrates how "brainwashed" you are about Toyota supremity. Talk about "laughable"!!! Go drink some more of that Kool-Aid.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Something is up with CR!

    I mean Toyota having 4 of the Top 10 vehilces for '07!

    Tundra winning another direct comparison with the mighty Chevy (I think that makes 4 wins for Toyota, I lose count, not counting the Sierra being outsold by it).

    All the Recommended, used car best bets, best-in-class designations? Come on! :mad:

    It's pretty obvious that CR, Edmunds, Intellichoice, JD Power, and about 2.5 million buyers are in on something.

    It's call a conspiracy. C-O-N......spiracy.

    That's all you gotta know! ;)

    DrFill
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