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Half-ton Pickups - The full field

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Comments

  • bugchuckerbugchucker Member Posts: 118
    Friends don't let friends buy Ford! Might want to move up to a real truck, like the new Tundra.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually yes they did plan to lose market share, Doc. One of the statements made last year when they took their $13 Billion reorganization hit was that maintaining market share at the expense of profitability was dumb.

    They closed what was one of their best assembly plants for the F150 ( Norfolk ) which took over a hundred thousand vehicles out of production. The remaining plants were expected to increase production somewhat and thereby become more efficient. It's probably worked just like they planned. But the F150 is old and outside of the interiors it's at the bottom of the pack in most categaries. For the time being though the F-Series is still the top brand.
  • gdtaliqgdtaliq Member Posts: 8
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    When you get laid off, hope you can afford gas for your tundra

    I don't have a dog in this hunt, however the Tundra has brought more than 3000 jobs to San Antonio, boosted rail freight, added schools etc etc.
    It's not as straight forward as 'buy Japanese v. buy American' which I'm guessing was your point.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Debate the trucks, not the people commenting on them.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • gdtaliqgdtaliq Member Posts: 8
    I deleted my reply. Sorry bout that
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    way of the ranger. From class leading to the bottom of the heap with the last major redesign in 1998. Sometimes you just can't figure out what they are thinking.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Ford is kind of a wild card right now.

    I will say that it looks like they did okay with the 'Taurus/ 500' switch so hopefully they will get it right with the F-150.

    With so much riding on the F-150 (Expy is dependant also)they better get it right or the N.America market is going to be lost.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    And their 5.4 won't be replaced for another 3 years. :lemon:

    Toyota turns up the heat for 2008:

    http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/10/toyota_releases_13_new_lowend.html

    You can get a 4WD DC with the 5.7 for less than $28k! :shades:

    DrFill
  • 12ozcurls12ozcurls Member Posts: 65
    hey kcram, any word on when the next gen ford ranger is coming out? I've heard rumors that their Australian division has already re-engineered their version of the ranger that could make its way here. why is it taking so long to redesign this truck. its like a 20 year old chassis.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    way of the ranger. From class leading to the bottom of the heap with the last major redesign in 1998. Sometimes you just can't figure out what they are thinking.

    Here's some additional background about the Ranger. There is now a Free Trade Agreement ( FTA ) with Thailand sitting waiting to be signed by both countries. So what.

    Well Thailand is the 2nd largest producer of trucks in the world after the US. They make most of the trucks for Asia. The manufacturers are Toyota, Nissan, Ford !!! et al. The redesigned Ford Ranger diesel has been out in Asia for at least 2 yrs now. It's every bit as up-to-date as the Toyota HiLux diesel ( Tacoma ) which is considered the best truck in the world for most of the world. Nissan's diesel is also world class.

    Why aren't these three world class diesels here already and why is Ford letting the Ranger and the St Paul plant wither away? Well when the FTA with Thailand is finally approved all those world class diesels will be free of the 25% 'chicken tax' and will be allowed to come here. There is no need to keep a UAW-controlled plant in existance if they can import more profitable up-to-date diesels.

    One article from link
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    I think Ford is content to leave the Ranger where it is, as it's now the only true "compact" truck - the Tacoma, Frontier, and Colorado/Canyon have all grown to the Dakota "midsize" class.

    But since this is the half-ton discussion, I'd suggest drumming up some interest in the What would the ideal redesigned Ranger be like? discussion :)

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    From earlier this year?

    I thought the Chevy 5.3 would be much more efficient than that. Pretty decisive test! :surprise:

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    What would Toyota fans do without that CR crutch to lean on? Fall right on their face? I know you will refuse to believe that CR is biased and/or has no idea how to conduct a test, so I won't even go there. But let me bring up the towing test that pitted the top of the line 5.7 Tundra with 4.30 gears against the middle-pack 5.3 Silvy with 3.73's. You call that apples to apples? Was it biased or just plain ignorant? You tell me. Why were they afraid to use the Vmax 6.0 with 4.10's? hmmm?
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Afraid? I think not, but go ahead and keep dreaming if that makes you feel better. The Tundra would have slaughtered the 6.0 Chevy in terms of driveline performance under towing conditions, due to its stronger, broader powerband and more efficient use of gearing. The 6.0 may not have been available at the time of testing. But surely the Tundra's "inferior" frame would have bent in half as it tried in vain to keep up with the mighty Chevy 6.0, so at least you have that to lean on. :surprise:
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    The 6.0 Chevy was available before the first Tundra came off the line. So, then why didn't CR use it?

    Slaughtered huh? Even after the Tranny failed? Or like you mentioned, the frame buckled? Surely you do know there is more to towing capacity than just HP/Torque, right? Why else do you think the Crewcab Vmax with 4.10's has a higher towing cap than the 5.7 Crewmax? Even with 14 less HP. Why is that?
  • h20h20 Member Posts: 42
    I know you are not fond of toyota. But could you tell me if you like anything about the 07 SR5 crewmax 4WD tundra? This is not a dig at you I am just curious. h20 btw this is for anythingbutoy
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    to tow a SD....a little sag in the bed...just a little but seriously noticeable

    Tundra bed sag

    Could it be that new frame?
  • toyota4lifetoyota4life Member Posts: 53
    I get a big laugh every time you guys talk about your domestic trucks and how great they are,i have been building houses now for 13 years,i have seen them all,drove them all,so please, tell that crap to someone else,back in 2002 we got a brand new F250 4door 8ft bed ,we put a READIND cap on it for all the tools,about 2 months down the road the bed started to spread at the tailgate ,not too long after the bed started to sag ,before it actualy got fixed ,it sagged about 4 inches,this truck was such crap ,they had to add two extra leaf springs in the rear on each side,from that time until now that thing spatted 8 sparkplugs,WOW GREAT TRUCKS :sick: later that same year we got a 2002 silverado HD2500,after dealing with the FORD we didnot hesitate to also beaf up the silverado springs before it hit the job site,try driving that chevy on loose gravle, :sick: that thing is very weak,try merging on to the highway ,you better make sure there is nothing at all coming,you need atleast 20 seconds to getup to 50 mph,we have now traded 1 siera and one f150 for 2 tundra 4.7 crew cab and 1 5.7 crew max,the only complain so far from the guys ,15 mpg average,hard to get useto blind spot,to all who are yappind about great domestic trucks, tell that crap to people online,who knows no better,i for one knows the tundras cannot be any worste,i know you are going to say i am comparing older trucks to the tundra,but are you going to admit they are just starting to build decent trucks? :P atleast i thaught they was,check consumeraffairs to see a brand new f150 burning to the ground :lemon: ,http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/09/ford_fires_continue.html.....- .......October 5, 2007
    A new risk of fire in Ford SUVs has prompted a recall from the Ford Motor Corp. Ford is recalling about 1,500 2008 Explorer, Explorer Sport Track and Mercury Mountaineer SUVs equipped with the 4.6 liter engine and 6R transmission.

    A bolt securing the oil cooler line fittings at the transmission may not have been tightened sufficiently at the Ford assembly plant.

    If the bolt loosens, the transmission cooler lines can leak fluid on to the vehicle's the catalytic converter posing the fire risk
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    To All,

    With freedom comes responsibility. I think anyone who posts should disclose whether they have any finacial interest in either advocating for or against the vehicle they are discussing. A lot of people read these posts and they help to inform the buying public, which is a fantastic public service which Edmunds is to be commended for.

    Here's my pledge regarding all the posts I've made, especially regarding the Tundra and the Silverado:
    "I swear I have no financial interest in either General Motors or Toyota. I have never sold, nor do I sell now, any vehicles on a commercial basis. I am not currently employed by a car maker or one of their suppliers, nor have I ever been."

    Full disclosure: I have sold a few vehicles, but they have all been my personal cars, and I sold them used to other private parties. I own a few shares of Ford stock, which I inherited. I keep it for sentimental reasons only - Lord knows it has been a lousy investment. I am just a consumer, and I am loyal to no brand. I have owned GMs, Toyotas, Fords, VWs, Mazdas, Isuzus, Nissans, and others. I have no ax to grind with any car maker.

    If you are a salesman (my condolences) or are involved in any financial way with the vehicles you discuss, you have a duty to disclose it. It does not invalidate your opinion, but it does put it into proper perspective. Those who stand to profit or lose due to auto sales should "man up" and admit it.

    drfill and others - are you man enough to take The Pledge? If not, I am going to rag you on every post you make that expresses a strong advocacy one way or another. Your refusal to take The Pledge will say volumes about you, and others will form their opinions based on that. Fair enuf?

    All you have to do to take The Pledge is post "I take The Pledge". You don't have to repeat the whole thing. Simple, and fast. Then we can move on.

    Oh, and one more thing. There will be no discussing what the definition of "is", is, or any foolishness like that. You either take it and mean it, or you don't, and accept the consequences of your personal decision.

    1offroader
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    So, in summary, are you proclaiming the 1/2 ton Tundra superior to the Ford SD's and Chevy HDs in capability?
    Please say "yes" so I can have a good laugh for the day.

    BTW, I call BS to your entire story.
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    I know you are not fond of toyota. But could you tell me if you like anything about the 07 SR5 crewmax 4WD tundra? This is not a dig at you I am just curious. h20 btw this is for anythingbutoy

    Hmmm, let me think? Nope. Not when comparing it to the GMT900's. There simply is NO comparison. The closest thing would be the engine, but based on my experience, I'll still take the GM LS engine. It is proven and keeps getting better and better. You asked, I answered, honestly.
  • toyota4lifetoyota4life Member Posts: 53
    Call my story BS all you want,but i live it every day,and no you wont be laughing at me, i am the one ,along with others ,who gets a good laugh at those trucks on the job sites,we all chuckly at BUILT FORD TUFF,and CHEVY LIKE A ROCK,PATHETIC TRUCKS :sick: again feel free to call what i say BS,what else would you call it?like i said ,tell people on here all you want how great your trucks are,but for me ,i have seen them all,and they are nothing special,and just so you know ,my crew still have the chevy,the company is planing to swapout all the other trucks for the tundra,and i cannot wait for the day!makes me sick every time i have to drive the silverado,do you want to see black hard plastic?chevy got that covered,so like i said, keep raving about your trucks,me and the guys will have a good laugh,we had a meeting last week for fall safety protection,and the tundras got so much attention,i was very please :P the 5.7 crew max got every one drewling,when i said to one of the guys ,man thats a nice truck,his reply,YES IT IS,wish i could afford one, but like i said ,call my statement BS,that just make us laugh at you more,the tundra have yet to prove itself ,but it can never be any worse than those contraptions
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Since I don't subscribe, or really buy CR, I'm not here to defend them.

    They have stated they used the 5.3 because that is the engine most people buy, and the 5.7 is the one for Toyota.

    My question to you is why was the Tundra the most efficient truck in the test? Stronger, faster, more safety features, roomier, and more efficient, sounds like a winner to me.

    I see the bias now....with eyes wide open. :surprise:

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    They have stated they used the 5.3 because that is the engine most people buy, and the 5.7 is the one for Toyota.

    What does popularity have to do with capability? You buy what you need. Right?

    My question to you is why was the Tundra the most efficient truck in the test? Stronger, faster, more safety features, roomier, and more efficient, sounds like a winner to me.

    More efficient? I see plenty of reports of poor mileage, 12-13mpg on TS, among reports of 17-18 mpg? WTF?

    Stronger? Yep, 14 HP 5.7 vs 6.0. How about the 5.7 vs 6.2? hmm? Yep, WEAKER!!! Faster? again 5.7 vs 5.3/6.0 yes, 6.2"? Debateable. But who cares about 0-60 times in a 6000 lb truck. Irrelevant. More safety features? Such as??? Roomier? Crewcab VS Crewmax cab, yes, but box is smaller. DC vs crewcab...nope. Guess it depends on what you need the room for huh?

    Bias is a 2-way street dude.

    Before you play the "yeah, but Toyota offers the 5.7 in all configs" card...Remember, GM has the 2500 with Duramax and 6.0 gasser in the 2500 series in RC's. So, they have the bases covered for people who need all that power in a Reg cab.
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Take the pledge, fill. Or don't talk about bias.

    BTW, you aren't a real doctor, either, are you?

    1offroader
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    "the company is planing to swapout all the other trucks for the tundra,and i cannot wait for the day!"

    Your company? You own this company?

    Any company in construction would be nuts to replace 3500s with Tundras. What you going to do when you need a pallet of 12" block? Send the Tundra? Right, it may bring it back but not in one piece. We buy WT series. Stripped down models with nothing fancy. I could careless what the interior looks like as I don't drive them. But they do get the work done.

    So you drive these company trucks? Why would they pay for a dressed up 1/2 ton for work? Makes no sense to me? Having sweaty, dirty, construction workers driving a $40K 1/2 ton truck. I can just see it now...lol!! Well to each their own.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    image

    If the personal shots continue, some of you will be sent packing.

    Knock it off!

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    This "pledge" business is pretty ridiculous. While you're at it, why not try to shake out some of the trolls, too, so we know where everyone's loyalty is. I don't care who sells what, it's obvious to any thinking person who reads these posts that we ALL have bias. We like what we like and we all have our reasons. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think you are free of any - that's the real BS story here. :shades:
  • 12ozcurls12ozcurls Member Posts: 65
    amen to that... so whos got some sweet [non-permissible content removed] truck action vids?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rX1yKQ_G0
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    LMAO!!! Gotta love those redneck hicks. I especially love how they were were wrenching underneath a truck that was being held up only by a hydraulic floor jack under the differential, no jackstands. Real brilliant!!! I guess I just don't "get it" when it comes to that hobby, could be fun though.
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Ridiculous? Really? Why? Would you like your stockbroker working for the company whose stock he is touting? How about your doctor prescribing you meds you may not need, while he's getting a big fat check from the pharma company? How about your lawyer working both sides of a lawsuit, without telling you? Is that OK too?

    OF COURSE we have biases, that's fine, and it's what makes the posts interesting and informative. But when someone is BEING PAID by the company whose product he/she is promoting, that's a whole different ballgame IMO. It's an entirely different dimension. It's so important, in fact, that there are LAWS against it in almost all areas of the economy. It's called "conflict of interest" and it's against the law in most areas of business.

    You seem to think it's OK, but it's not OK with me, and I will question anyone's opinion who may who may be motivated by money.

    1offroader
  • bugchuckerbugchucker Member Posts: 118
    I know there is no 1/2 ton which compares to the Tundra but do you really believe that it is fair to compare the new Tundra to 3/4 ton trucks?
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    You're not debating the trucks... your problem is with the person giving their opinion. And as I've pointed out many times, that's not what these forums are for. A salesman's opinion is just as valid as anyone else's here.

    Again... stop making this personal.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I think you will find Tundra loyalists doing that more than anyone else.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The desperation doesn't lie on that side of town.

    But the sales records do! :shades:

    Oh, there is no joy in Detroit. No, there is not.

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Oh, how profound you are Doc,

    So, tell me doc, in detail....Why should someone choose a Tundra over a GMT900, please back up your reasons. Maybe this will get this back on topic. Let's talk about the trucks, not Toyota's sales records. I don't care about how many Camry's or Prius's or even about the measly 144K Tundra's sold this year. Pretend I am a customer that just walked into your showroom and am looking at the Tundra (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit just typing that). Tell me why I should buy it. Fair enough?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I don't think so.

    If you want a test drive, or a walkaround, head over to your Toyota dealer! And form an orderly line (no cuts). ;)

    I know your game, it's old....and lame. :P

    DrFill
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Afraid of a good, clean debate? Maybe you are wiser than I thought!!! I just wanted to get back on topic and debate the trucks, but I guess you'd rather stick to your profound little riddles.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I'm considering a 2008 1/2 ton regular cab 2WD short bed pickup. It's been real tough to find a decent review of this type truck. Most reviews are in the extended or crew cabs with 4WD. I've been to Edmunds, KBB, Intellichoice, MSN, and the manufacturer sites.

    Where can I find objective reviews of this truck type?

    I've either owned or regularly drove company Ford, GM, and Toyota pickups. No experience with Dodge or Nissan pickups. I won't tow anything or haul heavy loads. I'd like decent MPG, comfort, power, reliability, and resale value.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Ridiculous? Really? Why? Would you like your stockbroker working for the company whose stock he is touting? How about your doctor prescribing you meds you may not need, while he's getting a big fat check from the pharma company? How about your lawyer working both sides of a lawsuit, without telling you? Is that OK too?

    OF COURSE we have biases, that's fine, and it's what makes the posts interesting and informative. But when someone is BEING PAID by the company whose product he/she is promoting, that's a whole different ballgame IMO. It's an entirely different dimension. It's so important, in fact, that there are LAWS against it in almost all areas of the economy. It's called "conflict of interest" and it's against the law in most areas of business.

    You seem to think it's OK, but it's not OK with me, and I will question anyone's opinion who may who may be motivated by money.

    Geeeez, dude. You are really taking this seriously.

    We're not talking about insider trading here - let's stick with reality. Why should I care if someone sells Toyotas or Fords or whatever? It doesn't put them in any better position than you or I to win a debate about whose truck is best if we are being objective. What is your motivation for saying so many negative things about the Tundra? No one is inferring that you or anyone else stand to profit from your posts.

    To take the position that everyone must take some lame oath that they are not a car salesman or in a position to profit from the success of a car company is completely ridiculous and totally disconnected with reality. I really don't care if you own stock in GM or if you sell GM's for a living. In the end, the reality is that the products speak for themselves.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    We've gone back and forth on this several times on different sites so here's the valid summary:

    Both trucks are top of the line right now. Each has different characteristics that put it at the top of the list depending on what you want the truck to do.

    The GMT900s have a generally larger payload capacity;
    The Tundras has higher towing capacity than all the 5.3L GMs
    The Tundra and the 6.0L GMs have approximately equal towing capability.
    The Tundra has lower EPA ratings than the 5.3L but slightly higher ratings than the 6.0L.
    The Tundra has all the safety equipment standard in all models.
    The GMT900s have all the safety equipment standard only on some models and not available at all on other models. ( ;) Yes Ma'am you did hear that correctly.' )
    The Tundra is the ONLY truck on the market with a 6 spd tranny and a 4.30 rear end. That helps in towing, in acceleration and in fuel economy vs all the other 5 vehicles. The Tundra has both the highest high gear and the lowest low gear.
    The IIHS, the Insurance Industry's testing arm, has given the Tundra its top rating in a frontal crash and top rating overall.
    .........Aside: this is a marketing gaffe on GM's part IIHS Large Pickup rankings
    The GM trucks are well known for their durability just as the Toyatas are know for their quality, dependability and reliability. Each is a good choice in this regard.
    The Turning radius of the Tundra is smaller than all the others on the market making it more manueverable in tight spots.

    These generalities apply to all models.
  • 12ozcurls12ozcurls Member Posts: 65
    alright come on guys this is gettin boring with u guys always arguing. you guys sound like school girls fighting over a boy... come on now..
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    You left out the tailgate assist, the bigger doors, the larger interiors (of ALL cabs), and the larger cargo box (biggest in segment). All Toyota advantages. These are just the major advantages.

    And this website thinks it's better too. :blush:

    DrFill
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    I know your game, it's old....and lame.
    The Tundra's superior
    Until you look at the frame....

    And the crash test ratings
    And the lack of OnStar
    And the fugly, cheesy interior
    And the frog-like front end

    But other than that...

    1offroader
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    1offroader,

    You forgot:

    Lack of a locking rear diff.
    NO rainsense wipers
    NO heated washer fluid
    Less warranty
    Fewer config options
    Cheap painted plastic interior dash/panels which are already peeling and rubbing off (based on many complaints).
    6 spd tranny issues.
    Bed Bounce (likely due to wimpy frame design)
    Thinner sheet metal (Dents when leaned against).
    Crappy ext paint. (Complaints on how easy it is scratched and how thin it is are abundant).
    Horrible factory remote start, which does not automatically control heat/AC and requires restarting after entry.

    I am sure I missed some things, I'll update as I think of them, there are so many inferiorities, it's hard to remember them all.

    Oh, did I mention it's FUGLY!!!???
  • h20h20 Member Posts: 42
    if your manufacturer did not exist which half ton truck would you purchase? i would purchase a chevy silverado.please be honest boys/gals it could be fun. your friend h20.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    If you have to trash-talk, build your own website and have a good time.

    If you can't stay on topic here, just leave.

    If you can't follow the rules - http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/memberagreement.html - appropriate action will be taken.

    Are we clear on this?

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • anythingbuttoyanythingbuttoy Member Posts: 102
    Lack of a locking rear diff.
    NO rainsense wipers
    NO heated washer fluid
    Less warranty
    Fewer config options
    Cheap painted plastic interior dash/panels which are already peeling and rubbing off (based on many complaints).
    6 spd tranny issues.
    Bed Bounce (likely due to wimpy frame design)
    Thinner sheet metal (Dents when leaned against).
    Crappy ext paint. (Complaints on how easy it is scratched and how thin it is are abundant).
    Horrible factory remote start, which does not automatically control heat/AC and requires restarting after entry.

    I am sure I missed some things, I'll update as I think of them, there are so many inferiorities, it's hard to remember them all.

    Oh, did I mention it's FUGLY!!!???

    Edit: I knew I forgot some, here is a biggie...

    NO Auto4WD transfer case available in Tundra. GM has had this since 1988. And it is simply awesome.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    It's better than talking about box sizes, interior room, safety features, gear ratios, engine power, or comparison tests.

    Best to steer consumers away from such minor issues. :blush:

    DrFill
This discussion has been closed.

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