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In fact, when I pulled into the service area and told the person who wrote up the ticket that I had an oil leak, and the CR-V had been in the previous day, his reaction was, oh, that's not unusual - happens often that some of the old oil drips out of the filter when the technician is removing it and gets on the "rails" (not sure what he meant).
I said yeah, fine, please check it out, and I immediately went in search of the customer service rep (I had her card in my wallet).
About driving to the dealer - the 10 mile trip took over an hour. I waited at the gas station for about 30 minutes to let the engine cool, and I stopped halfway to the dealer to let it cool again. I drove slowly, on only two roads and both roads had plenty of space on the right to pull over if needed.
I had two conflicting thoughts during all of this: 1) a little part of me pictured pulling up to the dealer with smoke billowing out of the truck ... didn't happen; and 2) I would never be able to post to the CR-V forum again if I had the thing towed to the dealer, after I posted so often about the fires and my fear of this first oil change, and after having several posters be somewhat less than sympathetic.
But even now, after driving it every day since Saturday, I check under the front for evidence that the oil is leaking.
Hindsight is 20-20, I know, but I sure wish I had done a lot more shopping around.
The Dynamat material can be quite expensive if you buy it like I did. However, most installers get it at much lower prices. Then they tack on their own costs for labor. That labor charge will vary greatly, so I really can't offer a valid guess.
Honda does not do this with all their cars because they tend to keep cars as light as possible. Sound dampening material can be heavy stuff. I only did part of my car and it added 50 lbs.
Kyfdx - I'm beginning to think that CR-V Czar might be a more trendy title. Whatcha think?
Andreaplume - Oil leaks (as well as other fluids) are the # 1 cause for fire in vehicles. Take a stroll through the NHTSA site and you can list reports of car fires. They are not as uncommon as you might think.
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I'd still think new tires would make the biggest improvement. Get touring tires instead of all terrains.
-juice
Varmint, not agreeing or disagreeing with you but was curious about oil fire related recalls so did a little hunting. (it's a slow day at work!) The 2004 recalls of passenger cars included the following fire-related recalls below. I read all the fire related recalls from Nov 03 to Jul 04 and nearly all (80%?)were fuel spill related, the rest were electrical shorts, no oil related recalls. Keep in mind recalls issued in 2004 are not necessarily all new cars - many recalls were for defects on earlier model years. Here is a sampling of the most recently issued fire related recalls:
2004 BMW 5&6 Series on 8 Cyl models the quick release coupling on the fuel line was not installed which, if involved in a frontal collision and exposed to an ignition source could result in fire.
2004 Hyundai Elantra fuel spillage on frontal impact, if ignited could cause a fire.
98-03 Dodge Ram aftermarket batteries could leak electrolyte onto ABS control which degrades integrity of connector which if destroyed could lead to a shorted switch which if ignited could cause a fire.
95-97 Caddies some 8 cylinder models have a condition which causes the fuel line to degrade, potentially leaking fuel and if ignited... well, you get the idea.
02-03 Hyundais some cars have a fuel tank assembly valve that doesn't close all the way - in the event of a rollover fuel may spill...
01-04 Kia Rio fuel intake nipple subject to crack when force is accidentally applied (read: user error) during engine repairs, could result in fuel leakage...
93-97 Land/Range Rovers plastic fuel tanks can develop cracks which, when partially overfilled by owner, can leak during overfilling and ...
Not so, young naive. For I reserve the right to change my mind with the changes of the seasons. Next I might be the CR-V Commandant, or CR-V Supreme Commander, or CR-V Imperial Overlord.
Of course, if the converstaion keeps repeating the way it has for the past month, I may end up the CR-V Fire Marshal.
It's gone on long enough for me to appoint you to the esteemed position of dog catcher! BTW - I think you meant knave - not naive! :-)
Now - back to our regularly scheduled program ...
tidester, host
I do know that if our service department got a phone call from a customer whose CRV we had just changed the oil on, telling us it was leaking, we would send a tow truck at no charge.
I sure wasn't trying to be funny.
Cybernut was well aware of the possibility of a fire but he decided to drive ten miles with a leaking oil filter anyway. That's the part I didn't (and still don't) understand.
Heck, if it were my car I would have been happy to pay for the towing charge and work it out with the dealer later.
I'm just glad there was no fire and no engine damage!
Earlier, back when the fires were first reported, Tidester or Steve posted an article talking about common causes for auto fires. I don't have the link handy, but that is one source for you.
For quick information on the frequency of auto fires, this link gives a quick snapshot of how many fires happen on US roads (including accidents).
http://www.firemarshals.org/issues/auto/task_force_info.html
But blame falls on leaking fluids frequently if you look at sites dedicated to auto fires, such as this one.
http://www.paturnpike.com/tools/newsletters/summer98/page-9.htm
"Most car fires start in the engine. Leaking fluids, short circuits, faulty carburetors and catalytic converters can start most fires in cars. Fires can also start in the exhaust system, particularly in the manifold which reaches the highest temperatures."
"Oil, fuel and other fluids can help feed the spark or spread the beginnings of a small fire into a blaze burning out of control."
There's nothing to understand. It was a judgment call and he indicated he took some precautions. End of story.
tidester, host
I didn't save the link either but anyone willing to scroll back should be able to find it.
tidester, host
I may try the quietest touring tires I can find AFTER I buy the CRV. I want real bad!
Thanks again everyone
Two Year
Dang, can't even blame that one on the spell checker.
Cybernut was well aware of the possibility of a fire but he decided to drive ten miles with a leaking oil filter anyway. That's the part I didn't (and still don't) understand." - isell
Yeah, had I been in the same position, I would have called the dealer. If only to have the call on record. But I wouldn't have been surprised if they told him to do exactly what he did (allow the car to cool, then drive it short distances only).
- CR-V [non-permissible content removed]
I don't remember old VWs catching fire but the 3 or 4 I drove around were bugs or buses. I never liked the idea of gas heaters to keep the interiors warm in them though.
Steve, Host
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You should drive down to Dewey Beach, DE for the annual gathering of greyhound owners.
-juice
Do not forget that Varmint is a Czar, who is not suppose to get involved in the "check and balances" of power. There is NO impeachment procedure for the Czar, only an abdication or (God forbid) a revolution.
He is NOT a "president", thanks God!
He don't have to relay on polls, manipulate public opinion or seek support of special interest groups. Heck, he is a Czar!
If not, I may need to rethink this.
In fairness, I seriously doubt all the recalls had been performed on that car (I'm not even sure if there was a Toyota dealer in that country), so who knows if he missed out on one that could have prevented the fire.
They got out just in time and watched it burn completely.
I'd tend to think most are from fuel leaks, though, not oil.
-juice
-juice
regards,
kyfdx
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OK, let's say that SOME of the fires can be traced to poor quality gasket on the filter as the two posters have said that the dealers have said. Either deterioration or just a poor quality gasket (forget about dbl gaskets for a minute). BTW, this forum had suspicions on that a long time ago,
Warranty or no warranty? Knowing what we think we know now (Honda changing filter and dealers seem to know the cause). Should those fires be covered under Honda warranty (assume done a dealership with Honda part)?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- - - - _id=8505
crvicia: wow, glad you're OK! How did it happen? Were you in the car, driving?
Definitely share the info with the NHTSA. The more data they have the better.
-juice
There is twice as much oil in Volvo engine - 8 Q, recommended oil change interval - 7.5K .
Am I missing something? I thought we had one poster (quoting a service Tech) who blamed gasket quality. Where has this been repeated? (Seriously, I'm trying to learn as much about this as anyone.)
I know that Cybernut questioned the Service Manager and got this explanation.
"He said no, that it was a combination of things: the original filter installed in the factory is installed very tightly; the gasket may or may not be properly lubricated; and the heat near the oil filter can “bake” the gasket, making it stick more than usual."
But that list doesn't include a poor quality gasket. It lays the blame on installation, lubrication, and heat, but there's no mention of quality.
Furthermore, there are plans to introduce a vehicle named RDX to the Acura line-up. This is supposed to be smaller than the MDX and possibly CR-V based. It has been shown as a concept car with a hybrid drivetrain.
And those are just the SUVs. Honda could also put the hybrid in the Odyssey. The Ody is already offering the variable cylinder technology that is part of what makes the hybrid Accord work.
I am talking about the others, which is where I refer to post 13339 Kizhe talking to the service manager about the new filters. He (SM) seemed to know alot about the fires and at least said that the gaskets were weak. My first Q is why would he say that unless he had some reason, especially where he is selling Honda parts. Second, don't you think it is a little strange that Honda would change the filters all of a sudden when they just changed them a few months ago?
Granted, it is only one dealer. Maybe I'll go buy a filter and ask the same Q Kizhe asked.
I guess the only way to solve this is to see the circular.
In the end, I am lucky. I could have been hurt or the fire could have been much worse. I just hope it doesn't become a fatal issue for someone else.
I was unaware that Steve the Host was an expert in automotive safety or engineering. Which automotive super powers do I get for being the CR-V Czar?
Actually, it was post # 13338 where Kizhe mentioned another SM's opinion. That's the one I was missing. Thanks.
My CR-V is doing in for major surgery (belt replacement) later this week. I will ask if they (independent mechanics) also have a theory about the gaskets. Perhaps someone can keep track of how many we are able to collect. Yes?
You know that if someone is injured in a car fire, Honda is going be sued as well as the dealer. And it won't surprise me if a jury holds Honda responsible.
Steve, Host
It actually makes sense to me what he said, since I can't recall NHTSA ever forcing a recall of things like windshield wipers (analogous situation), filters, etc.
Is this true?
It could be that the NHTSA does not deal with parts that are featured on the open market. It's a good question.
A not dirt cheap deal, but the handling, braking dist. and overall "feel" is remarkably better. (As should be the new set's longevity, as the BStones wear like a autocross tire, w/out the stick,lol!)
As for your noise question: it is reduced perceptibly by this wheel/tire combo, as other brands, (in orig size,even), should do better than oem. The noise, however, is not gone or dramaticaly reduced. I suspect there is v.little sound deadening in the area above wheel wells; thus, the considerable "road noise", which is really a function of tire tread on road, wheel rotation, air pressure damned up in w.wells and airflow along the sides of the vehicle. While the zealots here are enraptured of their cars, it is, imo, a utilitarian/3rd world effort in its current state,w/jes' a few touches of normal Honda quality. Thus, the noiser than hoped for, ride conditions.
Good for around town,etc...not my fave for long trips and gas mpg is really so-so. My 2Cts.
BR,md
PS: Not sure the Vue would be on my short list,either, but diff'n strokes.
Having said that, the Goodyear Eagles are nice tires. I had them on my car a couple back and it made the vehicle feel like it was riding on rails when it went around corners. I think I will buy my CRV in November when the 2005's are out for awhile. Then I will buy a "touring tire" that is made for comfort and a quiet ride. I think that will get me 1/2 way there in reducing the road noise to reasonable level. I drive for a living so this vehicle will become an over the road war warrior. IT is one of the reasons for buying it. I can put on a boat load of miles and will still be able to recapture a lot of equity when its time to sell.
You are right about Honda not bothering to put in much sound deadening material in this vehicle. I have never got a good explanation as why since it seems a pretty cheap and simple thing to do.
If I get desperate, I will do like CZAR Varmint did and have sound deadening material installed. He never quantified how much of a difference it made between before and after. I would be curious as to what percentage it was.
Thanks again for your 2cents
TwoYear
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I thought the US 1997-98 CR-V had 126 HP? In any case, in 1999 Honda increased it to 146 HP (about 16% increase). And of course in 2002 changed the engine to a 160 HP model (a 10% increase). So there wasn't really a "big bump" between the 2001 and 2002 CR-Vs.
And I doubt the design philosophy of efficieny and minimal weight changed with the redesign. The US CR-V is an entry level SUV and therefore lacks amenities available on more expensive vehicles. Honda offers more refined SUVs for those who require those features: Pilot and MDX.
JM2C
At least, it sure feels that way to me.. I've driven '99-'01s and while they definitely feel more powerful than my '98, and I recommend them to people that are looking used.. They still feel underpowered. though.. I never have that feeling with the Gen II models.
You are probably right about 126HP, instead of 127..
regards,
kyfdx
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With V6's in those vehicles they could easily add more sound deadening without worrying about the extra weight.
Toyota seems to manage to put more sound deadening material even in their entry level SUV's like RAV4 which maybe why its not as fast as the CR-V
In smaller cars (like the old CRX, for an extreme example), they say that reducing the vehicle's weight by 6 pounds is like adding 1 horsepower. Going from a stock battery to an aftermarket one adds about 2 hp (more than adding a CAI).
If you compare the fuel economy of the Honda Element with the CR-V, you can see what adding 100-200 lbs can do to fuel economy.
Now, vehicles like the RAV4 and Forester are both significantly lighter than the CR-V. Both out-handle the CR-V, and both have higher EPA estimates for fuel economy. But both of them suffer a significant difference in size. The CR-V bests them in passenger and cargo space.
Now, take a look at those vehicles that come closer to matching the CR-V in terms of size, such as the Escape or VUE. The CR-V is lighter than both by 100-200 lbs, fuel economy is higher in the CR-V, and the CR-V matches them in acceleration with only 160 hp.
In short, you can't have everything. I agree that the CR-V is a bit noisey, but IMHO its a worthwhile compromise for all the benefits it provides.
Here's that story. Keep in mind that my CR-V is a 1999 model and very different than the new ones.
I did the work myself. I installed Dynamat Premium on the floor under the front seats and up the firewall as far as I could go without removing the dash. I also installed it on all four doors.
This resulted in a modest reduction in road noise. Had I gone to town with the stuff and covered the cargo area and floor all the way back under the rear seats, I would have achieved much better results. I did not do this because A) this stuff adds weight, and this stuff is not cheap.
One side affect of this job was the unexpected joy of hearing my engine. Now that the road noise had been reduced, I could hear the engine clear as day.
I attempted to resolve this by adding a hoodliner (which is relatively light). The hoodliner is not as effective as the dynamat. I would not bother with it again.
The end result is that my CR-V is slightly less noisey than others of the same vintage, but it's not any more quiet than other cars on the road.
Now, if I had a 2nd generation CR-V, things would be much different.
1. The 2nd gen has a stock hoodliner.
2. The 2nd gen's engine is much quieter.
3. Road noise is less pronounced than in the 1st gen.
So I think that a good layer of dynamat under the floor is all that is needed for the 2nd gen. Just be sure to cover the entire floor for best results.