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If I were to guess, I'd say that SH-AWD will be an option, at least on the standard '09 TL. As far as displacement is concerned, the standard TL may have a premium fuel version of the 3.5, with, say, 290 hp, or a 300 hp version of the 3.7, while the "S" has a more highly tuned version of the 3.7 If the "S" comes standard with SH-AWD, it'll most likely have the 3.7.
I hope you never have to make a two gear downshift and mash the throttle to get by a semi on a two lane road, because you will be shocked, and you might end up road kill.
I rarely exceed 100mph anymore, but I hate eating semi dust.
I own a TL and have never experienced torque steer, nor have I ever felt the need to suddenly mash the accelerator to the floor. I think the example mph150club gave, of "having to" shift down two gears is avoidable through planning ahead, and that he exaggerates the torque steer effects of mashing the accelerator while the car is already going, say, 30-60 mph. I would say that anyone who habitually drives that aggressively should choose a RWD or AWD car.
The TL suits most drivers just fine, and even most spirited drivers, but not every driver. Chances are the '09 TL, with SH-AWD as optional or standard, will address the torque steer issue, but will still not please everyone, since there will still be a minority of drivers who prefer a RWD car, for reasons that have been discussed at length in previous messages.
I think we can all agree that every drive wheel configuration has tradeoffs. Even though my driving style would rarely, if ever, induce torque steer in a 250+ hp FWD car, my preference is for RWD for high powered cars. For this reason, I hope that Honda-Acura eventually follows the Nissan-Infiniti model, which would leave Honda with FWD/SH-AWD, and convert Acura to RWD, and offer a RWD based SH-AWD system as an option.
I also like accelerating mid-way thru a 20 mph ramp and my speed is generally 50 mph. The car actually rotates (not as much as my Accord, but no where close to taking of tangentially). Thats one thing I have loved about Hondas. These cars can actually rotate when pushed around corners while accelerating, on dry surface and when it is safe, of course.
yeah u never floored it
"I actually accelerate briskly going around a corner. And that is why I found it easy to challenge him.
I also like accelerating mid-way thru a 20 mph ramp and my speed is generally 50 mph."
That is not just going fast.
The physics for it are quite simple, look it up with Google if you like.
The effect is not dependent on speed at all but on torque applied. So it usually is most pronounced when accelerating hard at *slow* speeds, like around the corner of an intersection form almost a standstill. Higher speeds usually prevent wild steering maneuvers and torque steering is less of a worry but still noticeable.
Car makers can dampen the effect by counteracting the torque with the power steering motor (computer are involved here), shifting the weight balance more forward, and some other engineering tricks, like making the actual front half axles the same length. However, you cannot deny physics so the effect remains to some extent.
How much it affects depends on how you drive. An old lady using a TL-S to get groceries won't notice much.
If you are a civilized driver in town and on freeways it won't bother you.
If you like to storm through twisty canyons on back roads you definitely will feel it.
If you have never driven a front wheel car before and try the latter, you want to get out and walk home
Basically it exists, pure physics. How much it affects you is a completely personal issue.
I really do intend to drop out of this "torque steer discussion" now, because nothing any one can say will convince these "love me love my Acura" people that their beloved cars do exhibit torque steer. I do think Acura is a fine car, but it does/did exhibit torque steer, at least thru the 2006 model year (the last model I drove).
Now, that car had torque steer!!! :surprise:
Not sure how I kept that thing in one piece for the 5 years I had it. LOL
Can we create a separate forum for Torque steer please? I visit this forum for info about the TL....
So... got any new info about the upcoming TL?
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I am glad my post highlighted that the discussion was off topic and hopefully will bring it back to the original topic - regardless of whether I have any new info on the TL or not.
The best way to gauge the level of torque steer is to compare to other fwd cars that we have experience with.
Having one or two posts slightly outside of the forum's topic range is okay, as long as it's within the parameters of the original thread topic.
Now, as Kirstie suggested, back to the topic at hand...
Quite frankly, the TL's torque steer was one of the cons on my TL pro/con list.
This may not be a deal breaker for some, but it is for others.
It all comes down to the way we drive our cars, and for us, what matters most.
My eyes are very much on the 09 TL and the rumored addition of SH-AWD and I may be one of the first in line for a 2010, if all rumors come to fruition.
All wheel drive
300 pounds torque
Ventilated seats
Push start ignition
Suspension at least as good as the TLS
If their mission statement is to advance they should do so with this new TL. Its their best selling model. By the way the new Honda Accords look terrible but maybe it will grow on people.
I couldn't be happier, actually.
But, I accept that fact that I have an extreme love for cars, and I know that in 3-4 years, I may have wandering eyes.
I still love the look of the TL and truely hope the new design doesn't stray too far.
As much as I love my G, all cars get old, build up miles and wear/tear and need to be replaced.
All I'm saying is that I'll have my eyes on the new TL, whatever Infiniti does next, Lexus, BMW.... and the Nissan GT-R!!! :shades:
I bought an 06 MDX, fully loaded.
MSRP was 45K but I landed it for 39K.
Than the new MDX came out and it's now going for 47K.
There wasn't a lot of people reporting a $6,000 discount on the 07 MDX until the uproar calmed down and the dust settled.
Fact is, the new 07 MDX has a good amount of little issues that have more than a few owners ticked off.
If history repeats itself, the fully loaded 09 TL, with all of our hopes and dreams included, should be somewhere in the region of $40-$41,000.
And again, once the dust settles, prices will begin to drop.
As with all of Acura's first year releases, there will be bugs to iron out.
I, for one, will not be interested in dropping 40,000 of my hard earned dollars on a first year Acura release.
I'll wait for the "gotta have it" guinea pigs to work out the bugs and I'll reap the benefits a few years later.
Acura is getting carried away with their pricing. Doesn't the TL use the same chassis as the 2008 Accord sedan? They start out at 20,360. Seems like a big markup for a 40,000 dollar TL.
I wonder how well AWD will allow the TL to perform? I hope it handles better than the RL which has been described as wallowy.
That said, if TL/SH-AWD delivers, there will be a market for it. It won't be the bread and butter model carrying sales. So, Acura will still need base models to be around $35-36K, about where they are right now.
As with most cars, MSRP or something close to it for a substantially improved and refreshed model will probably stay for at least 6 months, after which it will drop, and depending on the market demand and competition, may even drop by as much as 10% come the 9th month. So, MSRP of 40k may translate to FMV of 36-37k by year end, which, in its full loaded configuration, the 09 TL will still remain competitive (price-wise) with other entry lux cars.
Well, let's hope that Acura will put in more technology and gizmos in the 4th gen-09 model to make it very appealing, just like when the 3rd gen-04 model made its debut. I believe the 04 and 05 models were the best selling entry lux car.
This was his response when I was discussing current pricing, and the direction in which it appears to be going.
Only time will tell, but if I had to guess, a base TL may come in under 40K, but the dream TL we're all talking about here will never come in that low.
Go visit the MDX board!
1382 of 1383 Re: MDX Issues [JBaumgart] by vaughn4 Sep 14, 2007 (4:27 pm)
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Replying to: JBaumgart (Sep 14, 2007 12:43 pm)
Good point! The downside to sub par ratings in Consumer Reports is that the resale value of our problem prone MDX's may take a hit. I am a Consumer Reports subscriber and will rate the problems I'm having on my 07 MDX accordingly.
Acura better wake up and take care of these problems AND LISTEN TO THEIR CLIENTS!!! They are not listening!!! We are not talking a problem here and there, we are talking problems across the board. Very un Acura like. Is there any quality control there anymore???
http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=698294
After seeing the new Accord, I'm a little worried about the size of the 09 TL.
I hope it doesn't grow as much as the Accord has.
The Accord is now in the "Large Sedan" category.
The TL would lose a lot of what it has going for it with all that extra weight.
That said, TL has traditionally been slightly smaller than Accord, and I won't be surprised if it continues to be.
As for weight, Accord (V6) weighs about the same as current TL. And with additional features, refinements and power, the next TL is bound to gain weight. This is an industry-wide norm. CTS gained a whopping 400 lb with the redesign, up from 3600 lb to over 4000 lb. At almost 3700 lb, The new G37 is over 100 lb heavier than Acura TL Type-S. Unfortunately, that is where I expect the next TL to be.
autos.yahoo.com/acura_tl_type_s_6_spd_mt-specs/?p=ext - 97k
It lists 60/40 front to rear and 62/38 for the AT. If the 09 is similar in these ratios then the TL will not be handle as well as the 3 series even with SH-AWD. BMW has been perfecting the handling of their vehicles with a rear wheel drive layout since the 60's with the 2002 and others.
Honda & Acura must create a better front to rear balance. Also the engine needs much more torque available in the 2000 3000 RPM range Get with the program Honda or get left in the dust!
Its not the engine. Drive the TL with 6MT and see if you have similar perception. The problem is the way Honda gears its automatic transmission. The "program" needs to be about proper transmission ratios (which means, Honda has to venture into 6AT arena with the same aggression that BMW and Lexus (IS/GS not ES) have done.
Anyone?
The new Accord Coupe/6MT seems to be using identical design to it (albeit slightly detuned), and with that combination, expect almost 0.67g around 2000 rpm. A lot of cars, especially front drivers, don't have that kind of thrust even at peak.
Here is a link to TL-S dyno. Thats about as flat a torque curve as you'll see anywhere. And has the broadness factor too. Note that there isn't a whole lot of difference between peak torque and what it delivers at just 2000 rpm.
Diesel will get torque, but less power and with reduced refinement.
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can you post this in some other format?
diesel will seem more powerful, provide better gas mileage, and I have never heard of reduced refinement in a clean diesel. Where are you coming from with that line of logic?
You are right that torque curve is impressive.