Acura TL 2009

hpmctorque · May 2010

"... the TL has great resale, and is bulletproof. It's fast. SH AWD is the real deal when it comes to handling. The seats are supremely comfortable. Steering is great. And, you'd be hard pressed to find a car that's better built."

Probably all true. It's easy for me to believe what you say because my wife and I are the original owners of a '99 TL with 124,000 miles. It's been very reliable, though not extremely, and we're generally very pleased with it. Our friends own a '05 TL (the generation between ours and yours), and it's very nice. However, I can't get past the styling of the new one, especially the rear. Further, that spoiler that comes with the back up camera looks really ugly to my eyes. Finally, increased the size and weight of the latest generation TL is another minus for me. Sorry.

By the way, we also own a '07 A4 Q 2.0T. So far, so good, but at 38,000, and still under warranty, the jury is still out on the cost of ownership of this car. We love the styling, though, and the interior is very elegant and tasteful. The driving dynamics are sportier than our TL, as one would expect. It's nimbler than our TL, and corners better. However, since we own it we are concerned with it future reliability, since the warranty expires next January.

Incidentally, I realize that a '07 AWD vs. a '99 FWD anything is a bit of an apple and oranges comparison, but it can still be useful.

hpmctorque · May 2010

"... I think GM has made it clear that they were targeting the Lexus IS/ES with Buick."

The LaCrosse competes with the ES, but not the IS. The ES is a comfortable FWD cruiser, while the IS is RWD architecture. It's also available with AWD. So, the LaCrosse and ES lend themselves to be cross shopped. By contrast, the IS is Lexus' answer to the BMW 3-Series. Of course, people are free to compare any car with any other car, but I'm just clarifying models that are direct competitors.

The CTS competes with the 3-Series on price, and the 5-Series on size.

graphicguy · May 2010

x....dunno about numb steering. I've got a SH AWD version. I love the steering. I love the feel of the thick steering wheel even more.

I remember when "Bangle" restyled the current gen of BMWs (he's since left BMW), the uprising was similar as to what we're hearing now about the current TL styling. Those who loved the previous gen TL (3G) didn't like that the current gen (4G) became bigger, moved up market, and used styling that is so bold. Personally, I like where Acura is going with their styling....particularly the TL. I also liked the styling Mr. Bangle did on the BMWs during his time there. Many "old school" BMW people (just like some "old school" Acura folks) didn't want to see changes. That's OK.

I like Audis. During my test drives (A4/5/6), I felt that the older interiors for Audi were better than the ones in the newest versions (A6 was quite nice, however). But, if it were my money, and VW/Audi's reliability were much improved, I'd be looking at a VW CC instead of an Audi A4. The CC looks better. Costs less. It has practically the same drivetrain (4 cyl turbo motor).

Again, these are all my opinions. Others like Buicks. Some like the CTS. Some like the 3 Series. Bottom like, there's a lot of good choices in the general segment.

graphicguy · May 2010

Funny that this topic is being discussed right now. Took my son out to breakfast this a.m. We're coming out of the restaurant after finishing, and another couple who had left right after us made a point to come over to my TL to compliment us on how nice it was. BTW, after we chatted a bit, the couple got into what looked to be a year or two old Audi A4.

rlonn1 · May 2010

On Friday morning I was returning home on the San Diego freeway. I was in the Fast Lane, call it lane 1, next to me in lane 2 was a big dodge king cab truck, and in lane 3 next to him was another white SUV. So we were basically all side by side. I am sure you can figure out what happened next! :sick:

Well the vehicle in lane 3 started drifting into lane 2, YES CELL PHONE, and the big Dodge in lane two imediatly started coming into my lane, Big Time! I had to do two things real fast, one move over to the left, that is about 5 feet of roadway before the center divide wall, and brake. So a combination of turning left and breaking took place, but moving left was still the key to not letting him hit me. These things happen in a few seconds, but the TL handling was just something I never experienced and something you don't duplicate on a test track.

Not only did the TL move left like it was on solid track, the breaking was incredible. I came within a foot of hitting the side concrete divider wall but that did not happen due to the steering and breaking stability of the TL. So I was safe and the other two big slow responding trucks hit each other.

Thank you Acura TL-SH-AWD for allowing me to maneuver in such a way that I avoided a near death experiance.. Took about 24 hours for my nerves to settle down. At 62, I remember what my drivers ed teacher told me what was the most important thing about driving" Anticipate critical situations that other drivers could get you involved in and most importantly "watch out for the other guy"...

sweendogy · May 2010

sorry about that TL - owners -- but your new TL 2009 and 2010 models is something of a mystery for me and the writers of every major auto mag. good car yes-- but again I ask how many came with the TL-S (SHAWD, or whatever) package. How many came with a 6speed trans?? Sorry guys but the TL is an accord-just uglier - look at the stats on the car-- it uses FWD and the same components as the standard accord. Just like the TSX. Good cars- yes.nice interior.-- service quality top notch-- good resale- nice lease rates. But look at this lineup -its closer to buick then BmW-- How many did they sell outright or are they all leased? i live in Boston and see maybe one a week - usually in standard grey non- TLS rentacar form. The old TL was bold this one is just bloated. The LaCross is a gunning for the ES-- but guess what acura owners so is your TL. :shades:

glad your ok RLONN1

graphicguy · May 2010

rlonn...glad to hear you're OK. I took a trip via the twisties in the back roads of Ahmish country yesterday. Gotta be careful to look around the next bend for buggies. But, had a little run with a G35s coupe through some two lanes. First and foremost, this part of the country is pretty this time of year. 2nd, the roads we were on make for great fun. We went toe-to-toe on these roads and had a blast doing it.

Didn't know who the owner of the G was until we both stopped to get some lemonade at a stand. Introduced ourselves. We talked for like 30 minutes.....both of us gushing about each others capabilities in our chosen cars. Both thoroughly inspecting the other's car.

Finishing our lemonade, we both were back on the two lane back roads for about another hour. Finally, we both parted ways with big waves and thumbs up for just a great afternoon of driving in two highly capable cars in the same environment.

What a great way to spend a beautiful spring day.

graphicguy · May 2010

billy....I've toyed with a GS 350 (AWD) a couple of times when I was in the market. I can't quite put my finger one why I didn't like them as much as the TL (SH AWD). They're nicely made cars. They just didn't offer the same driving excitement as the TL did. Then, there were quirks about the GS that I couldn't wrap my arms around (like the frustrating NAV).

All-in-all, the GS is a very nice car. It just didn't float my boat. I think if you like a Lexus with a little bit of sport thrown in, the GS wouldn't be a bad choice. But, I think you'd have to be a big Lexus fan to really warm up to the GS, IMHO.

billyperks2 · May 2010

Graphic- I am old school TL, I had the 2003 type S. I purposely passed on the 3rd generation because I thought it blended in with the accords and camrys too much. I still had hope for the mid year refresh but when they came out with the type s, the wheels were just a total turn off and they still kept it FWD. Glad I waited for this SH-AWD, it is a pleasure to drive and the entertainment aspects are spectacular.

graphicguy · May 2010

billy...you and I think alike. The 3G TL-S was a car I thought about replacing my '04 TL with. But, like you, I thought the wheels were a bit over the top. And, it was still FWD. Although Acura had really tamed the torque steer of having a powerful drivetrain and FWD, it was still there.

Enter the SH AWD of the 4G. Initially, my dealer had a big private invitation party for all of their customers (and former customers) to unveil the 4G TL. It was a nice affair. They had it catered by one of the premiere caterers in my area. No hotdogs and burgers, but they served seared tuna steaks, NY strips, good wine. And then topped it off with brief test drives of the new TLs (about 10 minutes). I liked the base TL a lot. At the time, the SH AWD wasn't in the dealerships yet. Once they came in, my sales person called me to offer a test drive. It was wonderful. Once I did a proper test drive, I was hooked. I wasn't in the market at the time ('09), but put the SH AWD on my short list.

A year later, I started looking around at the TL's competition.....the Benz C300 4 matic, the G37x, 335ix, the Audi Quatto, even the Taurus SHO. Didn't like any of them as well as the TL SH AWD. Once I did a 2nd (much longer) test drive of it, in short order I made up my mind I preferred the TL SH AWD over all the rest of those other cars I test drove.

I pulled the trigger. After a few months, I feel even better that I made the right decision.

I get compliments every day it seems. Whenever I park it somewhere, it never fails that someone will come up to me and ask me about it.

Glad you're enjoying yours.

gbosil · May 2010

Let me set the record straight. 2009+ TL comes in two trim packages = TL FWD Tech and Non Tech and TL SHAWD. Acura only comes out with the TL "Type S" (Their performance model sort of like Audi "S Line" or BMW "M" line) the last 2 years of Generation expiration. Talked with my Acura connection and they may not be producing a TL TYPE S in the new body style configuration. I was told due to "economic conditions." There are alot of rumors floating out there. I have also also heard "V8 Powered 356 HP" kicked around. Can anybody add to this or have heard anything? Much appreciated

marcus216 · May 2010

My new 2010 TL SH-AWD is nothing like a Honda Accord. My daughter owns a new Accord V6 and it is a very nice car for $28,000. totally different feel, ride, engine power, interior, etc. The TL is definitley several steps above any Accord. Now, the exterior is an issue for some folks. It took me some time to get used to it, but I have had at least a dozen complements from folks at shopping centers, gas stations, etc in the last week alone. I absolutely love the car. My neighbor as a 2009 BMW 535 IX. That car lists for about $15,000 more than a comparably equipped TL SH-AWD. While I think the BMW is a great car, in my humble opinion, the TL compares quite favorable in every aspect. It's tough to find $15,000 difference.

smarty666 · May 2010

Actually I don't even have a 4G TL, but a 3G (thank the Lord!) but for someone to say that Buick is as reliable now as the TL, ES, and the other luxury automakers after only being out for just a year, and the Regal just beginning to hit the market now, is just plain ridiculous. In 4 or 5 years you might be able to make that claim, but not now! :shades:

graphicguy · May 2010

gb....Acura (and all of Honda for that matter) are tight lipped whenever they roll out new models. I wouldn't expect a "Type-S" to be any different. That said, I have heard more than one pundit say that the SH AWD is Acura's Type-S like entry for the TL.

The RL was slated to get the V8, not the TL. But, development for the RL has come to a stop as best I can tell, along with development of a new NSX.

So, just mere speculation here, but I expect the '11 TL to be similar to the '09 and the '10 regarding models. Maybe a tweak here and there, but nothing major. If any refresh is done, it will be for the '12 model.

Some Acura officials have been quoted as stating they are looking into the hybrid sector. But, nothing specific for Acura. Honda has attempted performance hybrids before with an Accord (as opposed to economy minded hybrids). The U.S. public has been pretty tepid in their response.

As mentioned, I don't see much in the near future regarding a significant change to the TL.

Matter of fact, there's not much happening at all in the segment, with any of the manufacturers who compete in it.

Infiniti is taking the G down market with the G25. BMW didn't change it's performance, but went from a double turbo to a single turbo. Audi just refreshed the A4, so no changes expected there. Mercedes refreshed the C and E series over the last couple of years, so no changes expected there, either.

Cadillac is bringing out a CTS coupe. But even there, they only lopped off two doors of the CTS sedan.. That's about it.

graphicguy · May 2010

smarty...I don't have any problems when someone is enamored with any model. If someone likes the Buick, far be it from me to question their choice. However, sween is the only person I've heard of who's cross shopping a TL with the Buick.

As you point out, the jury is still out on the new Buick model's reliability. Both the LaCrosse and the upcoming Regal are redesigns and are new to the market place. Only time will tell if they are more like the "old" GM or something better.

smarty666 · May 2010

no, your right, I see your point; I too can not imagine why someone would cross-shop the TL with a Buick myself; the only thing that a LaCrosse can be at this point in the market be compared with is a ES350 at best!!

sweendogy · May 2010

wrong buick shopped against the ES350 just like the majority of potential TL buyers are doing- look at the cars side by side- FWD, BIG, SAFE V6 for 35k - nice cars but again its a safe play - 5 speed auto 280 hp Fwd cars - how many new TL's are sold in TLSAWD form?? anyone?? 6speeds?? the 535x vs the TLAWD maybe but again if you were looking at that price range wouldnt you be shopping it against MB and Audi -- and wouldnt you then look at the acura RL or Infiniti M -- still confused about this lineup- all grill no passion. Good lease rates tho

smarty666 · May 2010

the TL, especially the AWD version has completely different handling and driving dynamics then the LaCrosse; yes, it has a FWD layout but most people I believe look beyond chassis and drivetrain, most of which probably aren't even known by the shopper, because half the car buying population is native and clueless!

Now your going crazy with the different luxury classifications!

but, the TL even in base form is more expensive in all trim levels compared to the LaCrosse, but don't quote me on that; the closest competitor is the ES350, not the TL! styling aside!

graphicguy · May 2010

People like safe, reliable, good handling, high resale, big cars. As far as shopping against 5 series, and E class, I did shop the TL against those. TL has more HP (call it a draw against the 535ix). Matter of fact, my dealer took an '06 E Class in trade for a TL.

With the new 5 Series about to be released, I could have bought a 535ix for about $8K more than the TL. Thought about it. But, what would I gain? Nothing of note. Actually, I had to give up some features to get it over the TL.

Bottom line, there are a lot of good cars in the general segment. It's highly competitive.

If the LaCrosse floats your boat, then I say forget about the TL (or the Audi, or the BMW, etc). Compare it to the ES. Make your choice.

That said, I've never driven a LaCrosse. I have driven an ES. Not what I was looking for. Too conservative looking and driving. And, it couldn't have been more different than my TL (which wasn't a good thing for me). But, do a compare and a contrast with a LaCrosse and an ES and see which one you like better.

Regarding the sales of the SH AWD version of the TL, I don't know how the numbers break out. But, since it is more expensive than the base TL, I would imagine that the base TL sells more. The base TL is right in that $35K wheelhouse that a lot of buyers are shopping in. You can get a 328i pretty close to the base TL price. Add a few thousand more, and you can get a 528i within that general price range. You can buy a C class (going modest on the options) and you can get one about the same price as the base TL.

But, as smarty pointed out, the SH AWD version of the TL really is a much different car than the base TL. Some will pay for that type of handling, performance, etc (like me). Some won't.

As far as MT TLs, my dealer sells them as fast as he gets them in. So, if you can find one, and that's what you want, look quick because they don't last long.

Buick? I wouldn't have even thought about cross shopping one against the TL. Maybe I'd change my mind if I drove one. But, if I was a die hard GM fan, I'd probably go look at the CTS before the LaCrosse.

I've owned GMs in the past. I think they're making good strides. Unless I see something in the future that catches my eye (again, probably a Cadillac, which was the worst GM vehicle I had ever owned), I don't see myself in any of their showrooms in the foreseeable future.

Since you like Buicks, go for it.

smarty666 · May 2010

Yeah I'm exactly like you! The ES and LaCrosse just don't float my boat with their sloppy handling, very soft/floaty ride quality, etc. I like something that has a little bit of sporty characteristics, with a little bit of road feel but not to harsh/firm, which is what I really like about Acura and Audi. They seem to bridge the gap between super soft/comfort luxury (Lexus and MB) and super sporty/firm riding (BMW and Infiniti) but everyone likes something different in a luxury car so get what ever you like, its your money, use it how you want to!

graphicguy · May 2010

smarty....have always said, given the number of manufacturers, the number of brands, and the number of models on the market, someone's bound to find something they like.

sween.....here's a thread you'd probably like given your Buick leanings....

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0a3032/

smarty666 · May 2010

+1 graphic

sweendogy · May 2010

i drive a 2007 g35x - which at the time was as close you can get to a bmw without having to spend 10k extra.. buick not my bag but was mentioned a couple of times in the TL comparo because it fits the bill.
The TL came out 2 years later then the infiniti and copyed its power with the optional TLSSHAWD version for more money and less sport (then the G). ITs a good car yes-- but its a regular tl with 20 extra HP - big tires and RL AWD system which is the same system they have in every AWD SUV they produce. i'm sure its a sporty ride compared to a regular TL- but again the majority of the cars leave the showroom in standard TL (ES350) form. they are automatics -and they carry the same uglyisitic body shape- my point continues to be - 280hp auto safe car-- like the ES350/BUICK LaCross (if you going to pay 40k why not look at a genesis?)-- sorry boys your car is nice but its no sports car- for the 10 people who bot the 6 speed please disreguard this post because its fantastic trans.
TL owners enjoy your sunday drives but leave the left lane to the germans and the award winning v6 nissan.

marcus216 · May 2010

I have driven the G37X several times when getting loaner cars for a I35 I still own and driven by my son. The car never WOWed me. It is fast and handles quite well, but, in my opinion, it had little refinement and felt cramped inside. But if you are looking for a pocket rocket at a reasonable price. I can see the attraction. I also have driven the LaCrosse. Now that car is the opposite. Nice and roomy inside, decent power in the CXS version and lots of refinement. Nice car to for entertaining clients. Not my cup of tea either.

Everyone has their own criteria for a car purchase. My new TL SH-AWD has some attributes of both vehicles. It is fast, handles extemely well, is roomy on the inside and has a somewhat refined ride, has AWD (a requirement for me); and it is priced thousands cheaper than comparable Geman and some Asian cars. It fit my criteria and requrements perfectly.

Also, Most luxury manufacturers use common components from their corporate parts bin. Lexus certainly does. We know GM does. Audi and Volkswagon share some parts. And Acura uses common components in many of their models and some are probably shared with Hondas. Are their a few cheap materials in the TL. Absolutely. As there are in the Infiniti G series and the Lexus 350 and the LaCrosse and on and on.

Enjoy your G. It is a good car, just not for me.

billyperks2 · May 2010

So Infiniti uses different AWD system in each of their model and what about the VQ engine?- if memory serves me right-I had it in Maxima I rented a few years ago.

You are a character to reckon with- you despise the TL so much but you spend most of your time on this TL board- go figure.

billyperks2 · May 2010

Is there another promotion going on or Acura decided to just let us have these services for free? I noticed this morning that both services are back on in my vehicle but I did not request this. Did anyone else have theirs turn on without your consent?

jtla · May 2010

That's a promotion XM is currently running to lure you back, not just for Acura. The 2-week free trial period is from May 25 to June 7. After that, your signal will be off again unless you subscribe.

http://www.fatwallet.com/best-deals/xm-satellite-radio-free-2-week-trial/

billyperks2 · May 2010

oohh shucks- its kind of nice having it back, however I am not going to pay for weather and traffic and you can go to most AM stations and get the same thing.

sweendogy · May 2010

thats why i mentioned the NISSAN engine-- but again the g37 (NOW) Has the upgraded engine-- here are the stats.
3.5 L VQ35HR V6 306 hp (228 kW) (20072008 sedan)
3.7 L VQ37VHR V6 330 hp (250 kW) (2008present coupe)
3.7 L VQ37VHR V6 328 hp (245 kW) (2009present sedan)

the new maxima uses 3.5L VQ35DE V6 (note the DE in front of it-- its does produce 290 hp)
The do reuse alot of interior parts - BUT
The awd systems are similar in the FX and EX but they both performance SUS -- the big QX uses a traditional system. This AWD system is called the ATTESA-which has been around for awhile and was born and is still used in the GTR. The transmissions (nissan uses CTV) are different.. the nissan line front wheel drive (like honda) -- infinti is RWD base (sorry acura). Some could argue-- why would you by a FWD acura TL when you can get a better Nissan Maxima-- they both have weird looks - nissan more power, cheaper both FWD.. Some could also question why someone would buy an awd car sports car with a system that first came in SUV form and has no racing heritage.

The reason why i spend so much time in this section is to let potential buyers of acura know that the present line of acuras are frauds - Look at the numbers they do not lie-- nice car and good lease rates thou--and i cant believe they have not fixed the ugly grill.- If i were in the market for a TL i would be looking at buick or lexus.

gbosil · May 2010

This guy is killin' me! Present Line of Acura's are Frauds ? ? Huh? :confuse: I think SWEEN is smokin' something! First of all Acura has a proven 5 star crash rating, higher resale than ALL the luxury brands ... hummmm somebody must be purchasing them ... oh and did I mention RELIABILITY! Nissan sux (my personal opinion just because they are not what they used to be) and doesn't even belong in this thread. Oh I forgot.... you are cross-shopping a Buick to a Lexus to an Acura ... Buick is an old man's car and always will be. When I think of Buick I think of Grandpa driving it with his hat and depends on! :P

billyperks2 · May 2010

Going forward- I will ignore anything you have to say, I think you have a personal vendetta against the better car maker.

rlonn1 · May 2010

I have both XM radio and NavTraffic. I have three subscriptions. XM only for the wife 2009 TSX, The works in the 2010 TL and XM for my Pioneer XMP3 portable... Lots of DEALS when getting XM. If you search around you can still get XM for $77 a year, mine on all 3 radios, and XM traffic-Weather for as low as $17 a quarter.. I won't go into how to get these prices but just search the internet if you are interested. Heck, I live in San Diego where the temperature is like 70 degrees all the time, does not rain that much, but still find the Weather a nice plus to have. Traffic has been a big plus. Every day when I drive to work I punch in my destination. Only takes me 20 minutes and I know how to get to work so why do this? Once the destination is set, the Traffic function becomes automatically activated, and will alert you to any issues along the route or at the push of a button. The same for weather alerts and it may not be raining in San Diego but WIND WARNINGS is a big thing here. For 2011,2012 TL changes, I see the posability of the Navigation screen or weather screens being changed to a more detailed, Colorful, display and possibly a few other things as well. This is all done with Software so it is easy to do. Car now has 2300 miles, just past 90 days old, and it is as much fun to drive today as it was when I first got it. Escort 9500iX radar detector is doing its job, nothing but complements on the style, color and when they sit inside the car, they just cant refrain from touching everything inside. The SH-AWD with Tech Package is a Sweet Combination.

rlonn1 · May 2010

Well, you always have someone who hangs out in a forum that rubs people the wrong way... OK, lets talk Engineering and a few other things. As a world famous antique radio collector I can tell you that engineering is something that makes a individual company stand out. It is true that Sony, Grundig, Panasonic, Lowe, AOR, Collins all make Short Wave Radios, and they all play audio out the speaker, that is about as common as it gets. Many of my radios are 40-50 years old and most of the ones that were well engineered and was careful on what components were selected have shown over time that they can work today as good as they did when they were new!

Most people don't look, as an example, Under the hood of the GPS-Nav system but the way it is designed, engineered, Quality Assurance of the making of the PC board will result in reliability and overall performance. As an RF engineer I can tell you that for reliable XM radio reception or GPS reception the Antenna that is on the car makes a big difference.

Before I got the TL I tried a few other voice activated systems, including the Torus SHO... The Acura voice regonition system was more responsive and Got It Right more times.. This is all about engineering! The SH-AWD will only work right if the engineers who designed it did their homework, and the parts that drive the system both mechanical and the electronics behind the system were well engineered and when manufactured met the highest QC standards.

ISO 9002 is a sign of how well this take place at the factory! Honda, Acura, ISO-9002, Toyota 9002, Nissan, Sorry 9001, KIA USA, none, Cadillac 9001 and many factories and Parts company have NO ISO ratings.

Honda Of America insist on a ISO rating for all its suppliers. ISO rating = Quality.. BMW, Benz Sorry, ISO-9001... Search the Internet for ISO-9002 for more information..

Isn't it nice Acura Owners or Honda Owners to get into your car, day after day, 10K miles after 10K miles and it just all works...

graphicguy · May 2010

Ah.....OK.....now I understand. I thought you were really interested in the TL or the Buick. The real reason you're here is to insult other people's rides.

Explains a lot of the statements you made that just didn't make sense.

Sween you must be more than just a little interested in the TL given the amount of time you spend here.

Since you don't own a TL, and don't seem to have any intent of owning one, may I steer you to the Infiniti G or Buick LaCrosse threads....two cars that you do seem quite interested in.

sweendogy · May 2010

sorry you feel that way- wish i was able to express how sorry i am. I thought my statements did make sense and were backed up by fact but I guess not. TL is a good car - but in my opinion there are better options as noted by every major car publication. I hope the TL treats you to many worry free miles.

graphicguy · May 2010

sween....those of us who are owners, or those of us who are considering the TL don't see it the same way. Insulting the cars, their owners, or those who are possibly considering being a TL owner, for whatever reason, from someone who owns the TL's main competition (the G) rings hollow, at least to me.

Again, if you're interested in Buicks and Infinitis, there are threads for both where your views may be viewed more palpable.

sweendogy · June 2010

again i'm sorry you see my comments are insults to your car- again I am sorry if they come across that way. I think its important not to cloud these chats with gushing reviews of cars with out rebut-as you said others are considering buying this car should get the other side of the story.

marcus216 · June 2010

There are very few purchases we make that are more subjective than an automobile purchase. I, as many others do, read the professional reviews and forums, such as this one, as an assist in making the most informed decision I can when purchasing or leasing a new car. But when it comes down to it, I don't just make a decision based on what Car and Driver or an Edmunds professional reviewer says about the TL or any other car out there. Nor do I pay special attention to what individuals in forums such as this say or don't say about a specific model. It is all part of a process. So much of a decision comes down to a gut feeling on how that car fits my own specific criteria. And my criteria will be different than someone elses who chose the same car.

I leased a new TL because the car was the best fit to what I was looking for. I am happy with my choice as those who have purchased other models such a the Infiniti G are happy with their choice.

And the only thing I regret is that the process is now over. I really enjoy the whole car buying experience. Test drving a dozen models, researching the information in the Internet, negotiating the final deal. It is always fun for me!

graphicguy · June 2010

marcus...I concur. The trade rags are one thing.....mostly track testing. Tell me how the car is to live with day-to-day, it's reliability, it's driving characteristics on the road (not on the track). Then, I look for people who actually own the car (in this case, the TL) to see what they think of driving it every day. That's where the real worth of a thread like this comes in.....experiences from owners.

I can get all the Infiniti bashing I can stand at places like Temple of Vtech. That doesn't really tell me much, though. Trashing a model that someone doesn't own isn't really a help here.

sweendogy · June 2010

I agree with grafguy thats why I would consider consumer reports a better resource then this chat- unbiased - they buy the cars -test them in real world and have customer feedback for every car of the last 10 years - both new and old-- they also do not censor what they say - unlike what is posted here.

Getting back to the action-- Brakes question for SHAWD versions - how long are you seeing before you need to swap them out?? reason for this question is my 07 g35x with 22k miles and last oil change the dealer told me my back brakes would prob last another 4k miles..

marcus216 · June 2010

Yeah, I won't trash another person's automobile choice. Car buying is a personal - subjective thing. I will free free to provide honest feedback on my specific experience with the TL, but won't offer any thoughts on someone elses ride. So far after three weeks, I am totally satisfied with my TL SH-AWD. If I had a nit, it would be that I have accidently turned on the seat heaters several times. The type of switch and location of the seat heater buttons makes it somewhat easy to accidently turn them on. Not too comfortable on 85 degree days with the AC blazing. But, that is a real nit pick. No big deal.

Regarding the car mags, I do read them for some insight, but it is amazing how the reviews on the TL were all over the board. One reviewer thought the ride was way too stiff, another not stiff enough. Again this information is just part of the process. And yes, Consumer Reports is also a very good source of information. The more information one can gather from all types of sources, the more informed the decision will be.

graphicguy · June 2010

marcus.....LOL, I've actually done that too....turned on the seat heaters accidentally. You realize what's going on real quickly when that happens.

I found I don't put anything on the middle console anymore. That way, I eliminated turning them on.

I know what you mean with the media's opinion. While you can say that about their opinion about many different makes and models, for years the media complained about the ultra conservative styling of Acuras. Acura starts their "edgy" stying campaign across the board, and they received other detractors. I guess you can't win them all. I know some who will never buy a BMW again because of the "Bangle" styling of the last generations of BMW.

One thing most agree on, the TL is a speedy, nice handling sports luxury car. Move up to the SH AWD and it turns into a different animal entirely.

This is my 2nd one, and by far one of the most rewarding driving experiences I've ever encountered (including a couple of BMWs).

sweendogy · June 2010

agree that bmw (certainly the 5/7 series) had issues with its last styling-- but BMW has noticed what people are saying and has made steps to fix the problem. The new five/seven are once again good looking--still not the classic 5/7 from the early to mid 90's. Lets hope acura follows BmW and fixes the problems with the styling of its "edgy" line of cars-- maybe a coupe or an AWD flagship.. come on acura

marcus216 · June 2010

During my purchase process, I looked at the 5 series and did an extensive test drive in 528 and 535 AWD versions. Now these were the outgoing models, not the new ones. Great Driver's cars. BMW has a way of combining great handling and refinement like no one else. However, the pricing was so much higher, I just couldn't justify a lease payment of $250 or $300+ more per month. Yeah, maintenance is included during the lease term and that does mean something, but the TL is pretty close to the BMW in driving dynamics, the interior is comparable, the TL has more interior room, and I like the edgy styling. When you factor in "value" the TL is very hard to beat.

smarty666 · June 2010

We definitely agree on the BMW styling points. I used to think their exterior styling was rather bland and boring and nothing that really stood out from the crowd more than the emblem with the name at the edge of the hood, but I think that BMW has begun to head in a more aggressive styling direction and am finally beginning to like the styling they are coming out with.

I'm still not crazy about the interior but I could live with it, I just wish they would get rid of that ugly orange dash and console lighting on their non-sport models and switch to a white/blue lighting! Infiniti got a lot of slack years ago for the yellow-orange lighting they used why isn't BMW? I think it would be nice to differentiate their models by keeping the orange console/dash lighting on their sport coupes and sport performance models, but have a more luxury oriented white/blue lighting on their sedans.

Just my two cents

graphicguy · June 2010

I actually like BMWs. Have owned 2 of them (3 Series). In the warranty period, yeah they take some time in the service bay. But, my dealership was really good. They'd pick my car up. They'd give me a loaner car. When service was finished, they'd bring it to my home or office, and pick up their loaner.

Now, after the warranty? That was the killer. They'd still come pick up and drop off my car. But, maintenance and charges for failed components were pretty outrageous. The total would always be 2X-3X the cost for the same service/parts/labor for an Acura.

That didn't make them any less fun to drive cars. Just inexplicably less reliable and more expensive to maintain than my Acura.

I looked at a '10 5 series while shopping for my TL. All loaded up, it was just a bit more than the 3 Series, but still at least $10K more than the TL SH AWD. I think all loaded up, like for like to a TL SH AWD w/tech was in that $51K range (about $10K off MSRP), after negotiations. Because of its size and performance, I think the 5 Series mirrors closely to the TL SH AWD.

Surprisingly, I looked at the Taurus SHO. Almost exactly the same price (negotiated) as a TL SH AWD. It's a pretty amazing car. Still, it was extremely heavy, and despite all the HP, you could feel the heft (and not in a good way). Plus, although better, the quality of materials and build aren't up to Acura's standards. They're getting there. They just aren't there, yet.

However, if you're looking for a stop light warrior/boulevard cruiser, a SHO looks attractive in those roles.

TL is unique in the market place. As most Acuras are, they don't excel in any single category, yet is a good (sometimes best) car in every category.

marcus216 · June 2010

I agree, BMW's are wonderful cars, but for my wallet, they are too pricey, especially when their are choices like the TL, that, in my opinion, is comparable to the 5 Series in most respects.

I, too, test drove and considered the Ford SHO. I came from a 2001 Lexus LS 430 that I had bought used about 4 years ago, so I was used to a large car. Personally, I really liked the Taurus. Great combination of decent handling for a big car and refinement. And, wow, what an engine! The twin turbo really lit it up on the highway. My issue with the SHO was that the lease cost was about $200 more per month for comparable list price car, down payment and lease terms than my TL SH-AWD. I was shocked at the price difference. Made my decision quite easy.

sweendogy · June 2010

sometimes best- and unique thats true.

agree with the last post that its a good deal when your leasing-- but for 51k wow thats sticker shock for acuras midlevel sedan..

barryend · June 2010

The Audi A4 has a huge trunk, gets 28-30 mpg on the highway and is gorgeous especially if you get the Premium + or Prestige levels with LEDs.Better yet with my 18" wheel sports package or even 19" pothole busters for the brave. If you can live with a bit smaller car you may love it as I do. Give yourself a treat.

I downsized from a wandering load of an M35X and eschewed the Gorgon faced TL SH-AWD. If Honda outsources their designing to Italy I will look again.

My last Ford, a Taurus wagon had 2 trannies and they replaced every part in it during my 5 years of ownership. I bought a 100,000 mile factory warranty in 1988 so they lost 5,000 on an 18,000 dollar car. I would sooner forgive Osama.

I am 68. Too young for a Buick. No handicap tag on my windshield.

If I wanted value I would Hyundai Genesis 4.6 in a heartbeat. 4 Blizzak winter tires instead of dubious all-seasons and I will go in the snow.

graphicguy · June 2010

barry...I looked pretty seriously at both an A4 and an A5.

I think Audi has moved backwards a step or two on their interiors. The previous A4 interior was nicer than the one in the 2010 (Premium Plus). It was a 4 cyl, though. A Turbo, but still a 4 cyl. It couldn't really compare to the TL SH AWD, IMHO.

Plus, I'm still not convinced they (VW/Audi) really is all that reliable. That scares me more than anything with Audis. It's going to take a few years before we know if that issue has been addressed.

As far as lights, etc are concerned, you can bling any car with lights if you really want to (I'm not one of those big bling guys, though).

Acura TL 2009

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