Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Probably all true. It's easy for me to believe what you say because my wife and I are the original owners of a '99 TL with 124,000 miles. It's been very reliable, though not extremely, and we're generally very pleased with it. Our friends own a '05 TL (the generation between ours and yours), and it's very nice. However, I can't get past the styling of the new one, especially the rear. Further, that spoiler that comes with the back up camera looks really ugly to my eyes. Finally, increased the size and weight of the latest generation TL is another minus for me. Sorry.
By the way, we also own a '07 A4 Q 2.0T. So far, so good, but at 38,000, and still under warranty, the jury is still out on the cost of ownership of this car. We love the styling, though, and the interior is very elegant and tasteful. The driving dynamics are sportier than our TL, as one would expect. It's nimbler than our TL, and corners better. However, since we own it we are concerned with it future reliability, since the warranty expires next January.
Incidentally, I realize that a '07 AWD vs. a '99 FWD anything is a bit of an apple and oranges comparison, but it can still be useful.
The LaCrosse competes with the ES, but not the IS. The ES is a comfortable FWD cruiser, while the IS is RWD architecture. It's also available with AWD. So, the LaCrosse and ES lend themselves to be cross shopped. By contrast, the IS is Lexus' answer to the BMW 3-Series. Of course, people are free to compare any car with any other car, but I'm just clarifying models that are direct competitors.
The CTS competes with the 3-Series on price, and the 5-Series on size.
I remember when "Bangle" restyled the current gen of BMWs (he's since left BMW), the uprising was similar as to what we're hearing now about the current TL styling. Those who loved the previous gen TL (3G) didn't like that the current gen (4G) became bigger, moved up market, and used styling that is so bold. Personally, I like where Acura is going with their styling....particularly the TL. I also liked the styling Mr. Bangle did on the BMWs during his time there. Many "old school" BMW people (just like some "old school" Acura folks) didn't want to see changes. That's OK.
I like Audis. During my test drives (A4/5/6), I felt that the older interiors for Audi were better than the ones in the newest versions (A6 was quite nice, however). But, if it were my money, and VW/Audi's reliability were much improved, I'd be looking at a VW CC instead of an Audi A4. The CC looks better. Costs less. It has practically the same drivetrain (4 cyl turbo motor).
Again, these are all my opinions. Others like Buicks. Some like the CTS. Some like the 3 Series. Bottom like, there's a lot of good choices in the general segment.
Well the vehicle in lane 3 started drifting into lane 2, YES CELL PHONE, and the big Dodge in lane two imediatly started coming into my lane, Big Time! I had to do two things real fast, one move over to the left, that is about 5 feet of roadway before the center divide wall, and brake. So a combination of turning left and breaking took place, but moving left was still the key to not letting him hit me. These things happen in a few seconds, but the TL handling was just something I never experienced and something you don't duplicate on a test track.
Not only did the TL move left like it was on solid track, the breaking was incredible. I came within a foot of hitting the side concrete divider wall but that did not happen due to the steering and breaking stability of the TL. So I was safe and the other two big slow responding trucks hit each other.
Thank you Acura TL-SH-AWD for allowing me to maneuver in such a way that I avoided a near death experiance.. Took about 24 hours for my nerves to settle down. At 62, I remember what my drivers ed teacher told me what was the most important thing about driving" Anticipate critical situations that other drivers could get you involved in and most importantly "watch out for the other guy"...
glad your ok RLONN1
Didn't know who the owner of the G was until we both stopped to get some lemonade at a stand. Introduced ourselves. We talked for like 30 minutes.....both of us gushing about each others capabilities in our chosen cars. Both thoroughly inspecting the other's car.
Finishing our lemonade, we both were back on the two lane back roads for about another hour. Finally, we both parted ways with big waves and thumbs up for just a great afternoon of driving in two highly capable cars in the same environment.
What a great way to spend a beautiful spring day.
All-in-all, the GS is a very nice car. It just didn't float my boat. I think if you like a Lexus with a little bit of sport thrown in, the GS wouldn't be a bad choice. But, I think you'd have to be a big Lexus fan to really warm up to the GS, IMHO.
Enter the SH AWD of the 4G. Initially, my dealer had a big private invitation party for all of their customers (and former customers) to unveil the 4G TL. It was a nice affair. They had it catered by one of the premiere caterers in my area. No hotdogs and burgers, but they served seared tuna steaks, NY strips, good wine. And then topped it off with brief test drives of the new TLs (about 10 minutes). I liked the base TL a lot. At the time, the SH AWD wasn't in the dealerships yet. Once they came in, my sales person called me to offer a test drive. It was wonderful. Once I did a proper test drive, I was hooked. I wasn't in the market at the time ('09), but put the SH AWD on my short list.
A year later, I started looking around at the TL's competition.....the Benz C300 4 matic, the G37x, 335ix, the Audi Quatto, even the Taurus SHO. Didn't like any of them as well as the TL SH AWD. Once I did a 2nd (much longer) test drive of it, in short order I made up my mind I preferred the TL SH AWD over all the rest of those other cars I test drove.
I pulled the trigger. After a few months, I feel even better that I made the right decision.
I get compliments every day it seems. Whenever I park it somewhere, it never fails that someone will come up to me and ask me about it.
Glad you're enjoying yours.
The RL was slated to get the V8, not the TL. But, development for the RL has come to a stop as best I can tell, along with development of a new NSX.
So, just mere speculation here, but I expect the '11 TL to be similar to the '09 and the '10 regarding models. Maybe a tweak here and there, but nothing major. If any refresh is done, it will be for the '12 model.
Some Acura officials have been quoted as stating they are looking into the hybrid sector. But, nothing specific for Acura. Honda has attempted performance hybrids before with an Accord (as opposed to economy minded hybrids). The U.S. public has been pretty tepid in their response.
As mentioned, I don't see much in the near future regarding a significant change to the TL.
Matter of fact, there's not much happening at all in the segment, with any of the manufacturers who compete in it.
Infiniti is taking the G down market with the G25. BMW didn't change it's performance, but went from a double turbo to a single turbo. Audi just refreshed the A4, so no changes expected there. Mercedes refreshed the C and E series over the last couple of years, so no changes expected there, either.
Cadillac is bringing out a CTS coupe. But even there, they only lopped off two doors of the CTS sedan.. That's about it.
As you point out, the jury is still out on the new Buick model's reliability. Both the LaCrosse and the upcoming Regal are redesigns and are new to the market place. Only time will tell if they are more like the "old" GM or something better.
Now your going crazy with the different luxury classifications!
but, the TL even in base form is more expensive in all trim levels compared to the LaCrosse, but don't quote me on that; the closest competitor is the ES350, not the TL! styling aside!
With the new 5 Series about to be released, I could have bought a 535ix for about $8K more than the TL. Thought about it. But, what would I gain? Nothing of note. Actually, I had to give up some features to get it over the TL.
Bottom line, there are a lot of good cars in the general segment. It's highly competitive.
If the LaCrosse floats your boat, then I say forget about the TL (or the Audi, or the BMW, etc). Compare it to the ES. Make your choice.
That said, I've never driven a LaCrosse. I have driven an ES. Not what I was looking for. Too conservative looking and driving. And, it couldn't have been more different than my TL (which wasn't a good thing for me). But, do a compare and a contrast with a LaCrosse and an ES and see which one you like better.
Regarding the sales of the SH AWD version of the TL, I don't know how the numbers break out. But, since it is more expensive than the base TL, I would imagine that the base TL sells more. The base TL is right in that $35K wheelhouse that a lot of buyers are shopping in. You can get a 328i pretty close to the base TL price. Add a few thousand more, and you can get a 528i within that general price range. You can buy a C class (going modest on the options) and you can get one about the same price as the base TL.
But, as smarty pointed out, the SH AWD version of the TL really is a much different car than the base TL. Some will pay for that type of handling, performance, etc (like me). Some won't.
As far as MT TLs, my dealer sells them as fast as he gets them in. So, if you can find one, and that's what you want, look quick because they don't last long.
Buick? I wouldn't have even thought about cross shopping one against the TL. Maybe I'd change my mind if I drove one. But, if I was a die hard GM fan, I'd probably go look at the CTS before the LaCrosse.
I've owned GMs in the past. I think they're making good strides. Unless I see something in the future that catches my eye (again, probably a Cadillac, which was the worst GM vehicle I had ever owned), I don't see myself in any of their showrooms in the foreseeable future.
Since you like Buicks, go for it.
sween.....here's a thread you'd probably like given your Buick leanings....
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0a3032/
The TL came out 2 years later then the infiniti and copyed its power with the optional TLSSHAWD version for more money and less sport (then the G). ITs a good car yes-- but its a regular tl with 20 extra HP - big tires and RL AWD system which is the same system they have in every AWD SUV they produce. i'm sure its a sporty ride compared to a regular TL- but again the majority of the cars leave the showroom in standard TL (ES350) form. they are automatics -and they carry the same uglyisitic body shape- my point continues to be - 280hp auto safe car-- like the ES350/BUICK LaCross (if you going to pay 40k why not look at a genesis?)-- sorry boys your car is nice but its no sports car- for the 10 people who bot the 6 speed please disreguard this post because its fantastic trans.
TL owners enjoy your sunday drives but leave the left lane to the germans and the award winning v6 nissan.
Everyone has their own criteria for a car purchase. My new TL SH-AWD has some attributes of both vehicles. It is fast, handles extemely well, is roomy on the inside and has a somewhat refined ride, has AWD (a requirement for me); and it is priced thousands cheaper than comparable Geman and some Asian cars. It fit my criteria and requrements perfectly.
Also, Most luxury manufacturers use common components from their corporate parts bin. Lexus certainly does. We know GM does. Audi and Volkswagon share some parts. And Acura uses common components in many of their models and some are probably shared with Hondas. Are their a few cheap materials in the TL. Absolutely. As there are in the Infiniti G series and the Lexus 350 and the LaCrosse and on and on.
Enjoy your G. It is a good car, just not for me.
You are a character to reckon with- you despise the TL so much but you spend most of your time on this TL board- go figure.
http://www.fatwallet.com/best-deals/xm-satellite-radio-free-2-week-trial/
3.5 L VQ35HR V6 306 hp (228 kW) (2007–2008 sedan)
3.7 L VQ37VHR V6 330 hp (250 kW) (2008–present coupe)
3.7 L VQ37VHR V6 328 hp (245 kW) (2009–present sedan)
the new maxima uses 3.5L VQ35DE V6 (note the DE in front of it-- its does produce 290 hp)
The do reuse alot of interior parts - BUT
The awd systems are similar in the FX and EX but they both performance SUS -- the big QX uses a traditional system. This AWD system is called the ATTESA-which has been around for awhile and was born and is still used in the GTR. The transmissions (nissan uses CTV) are different.. the nissan line front wheel drive (like honda) -- infinti is RWD base (sorry acura). Some could argue-- why would you by a FWD acura TL when you can get a better Nissan Maxima-- they both have weird looks - nissan more power, cheaper both FWD.. Some could also question why someone would buy an awd car sports car with a system that first came in SUV form and has no racing heritage.
The reason why i spend so much time in this section is to let potential buyers of acura know that the present line of acuras are frauds - Look at the numbers they do not lie-- nice car and good lease rates thou--and i cant believe they have not fixed the ugly grill.- If i were in the market for a TL i would be looking at buick or lexus.
Most people don't look, as an example, Under the hood of the GPS-Nav system but the way it is designed, engineered, Quality Assurance of the making of the PC board will result in reliability and overall performance. As an RF engineer I can tell you that for reliable XM radio reception or GPS reception the Antenna that is on the car makes a big difference.
Before I got the TL I tried a few other voice activated systems, including the Torus SHO... The Acura voice regonition system was more responsive and Got It Right more times.. This is all about engineering! The SH-AWD will only work right if the engineers who designed it did their homework, and the parts that drive the system both mechanical and the electronics behind the system were well engineered and when manufactured met the highest QC standards.
ISO 9002 is a sign of how well this take place at the factory! Honda, Acura, ISO-9002, Toyota 9002, Nissan, Sorry 9001, KIA USA, none, Cadillac 9001 and many factories and Parts company have NO ISO ratings.
Honda Of America insist on a ISO rating for all its suppliers. ISO rating = Quality.. BMW, Benz Sorry, ISO-9001... Search the Internet for ISO-9002 for more information..
Isn't it nice Acura Owners or Honda Owners to get into your car, day after day, 10K miles after 10K miles and it just all works...
Explains a lot of the statements you made that just didn't make sense.
Sween you must be more than just a little interested in the TL given the amount of time you spend here.
Since you don't own a TL, and don't seem to have any intent of owning one, may I steer you to the Infiniti G or Buick LaCrosse threads....two cars that you do seem quite interested in.
Again, if you're interested in Buicks and Infinitis, there are threads for both where your views may be viewed more palpable.
I leased a new TL because the car was the best fit to what I was looking for. I am happy with my choice as those who have purchased other models such a the Infiniti G are happy with their choice.
And the only thing I regret is that the process is now over. I really enjoy the whole car buying experience. Test drving a dozen models, researching the information in the Internet, negotiating the final deal. It is always fun for me!
I can get all the Infiniti bashing I can stand at places like Temple of Vtech. That doesn't really tell me much, though. Trashing a model that someone doesn't own isn't really a help here.
Getting back to the action-- Brakes question for SHAWD versions - how long are you seeing before you need to swap them out?? reason for this question is my 07 g35x with 22k miles and last oil change the dealer told me my back brakes would prob last another 4k miles..
Regarding the car mags, I do read them for some insight, but it is amazing how the reviews on the TL were all over the board. One reviewer thought the ride was way too stiff, another not stiff enough. Again this information is just part of the process. And yes, Consumer Reports is also a very good source of information. The more information one can gather from all types of sources, the more informed the decision will be.
I found I don't put anything on the middle console anymore. That way, I eliminated turning them on.
I know what you mean with the media's opinion. While you can say that about their opinion about many different makes and models, for years the media complained about the ultra conservative styling of Acuras. Acura starts their "edgy" stying campaign across the board, and they received other detractors. I guess you can't win them all. I know some who will never buy a BMW again because of the "Bangle" styling of the last generations of BMW.
One thing most agree on, the TL is a speedy, nice handling sports luxury car. Move up to the SH AWD and it turns into a different animal entirely.
This is my 2nd one, and by far one of the most rewarding driving experiences I've ever encountered (including a couple of BMWs).
I'm still not crazy about the interior but I could live with it, I just wish they would get rid of that ugly orange dash and console lighting on their non-sport models and switch to a white/blue lighting! Infiniti got a lot of slack years ago for the yellow-orange lighting they used why isn't BMW? I think it would be nice to differentiate their models by keeping the orange console/dash lighting on their sport coupes and sport performance models, but have a more luxury oriented white/blue lighting on their sedans.
Just my two cents
Now, after the warranty? That was the killer. They'd still come pick up and drop off my car. But, maintenance and charges for failed components were pretty outrageous. The total would always be 2X-3X the cost for the same service/parts/labor for an Acura.
That didn't make them any less fun to drive cars. Just inexplicably less reliable and more expensive to maintain than my Acura.
I looked at a '10 5 series while shopping for my TL. All loaded up, it was just a bit more than the 3 Series, but still at least $10K more than the TL SH AWD. I think all loaded up, like for like to a TL SH AWD w/tech was in that $51K range (about $10K off MSRP), after negotiations. Because of its size and performance, I think the 5 Series mirrors closely to the TL SH AWD.
Surprisingly, I looked at the Taurus SHO. Almost exactly the same price (negotiated) as a TL SH AWD. It's a pretty amazing car. Still, it was extremely heavy, and despite all the HP, you could feel the heft (and not in a good way). Plus, although better, the quality of materials and build aren't up to Acura's standards. They're getting there. They just aren't there, yet.
However, if you're looking for a stop light warrior/boulevard cruiser, a SHO looks attractive in those roles.
TL is unique in the market place. As most Acuras are, they don't excel in any single category, yet is a good (sometimes best) car in every category.
I, too, test drove and considered the Ford SHO. I came from a 2001 Lexus LS 430 that I had bought used about 4 years ago, so I was used to a large car. Personally, I really liked the Taurus. Great combination of decent handling for a big car and refinement. And, wow, what an engine! The twin turbo really lit it up on the highway. My issue with the SHO was that the lease cost was about $200 more per month for comparable list price car, down payment and lease terms than my TL SH-AWD. I was shocked at the price difference. Made my decision quite easy.
agree with the last post that its a good deal when your leasing-- but for 51k wow thats sticker shock for acuras midlevel sedan..
I downsized from a wandering load of an M35X and eschewed the Gorgon faced TL SH-AWD. If Honda outsources their designing to Italy I will look again.
My last Ford, a Taurus wagon had 2 trannies and they replaced every part in it during my 5 years of ownership. I bought a 100,000 mile factory warranty in 1988 so they lost 5,000 on an 18,000 dollar car. I would sooner forgive Osama.
I am 68. Too young for a Buick. No handicap tag on my windshield.
If I wanted value I would Hyundai Genesis 4.6 in a heartbeat. 4 Blizzak winter tires instead of dubious all-seasons and I will go in the snow.
I think Audi has moved backwards a step or two on their interiors. The previous A4 interior was nicer than the one in the 2010 (Premium Plus). It was a 4 cyl, though. A Turbo, but still a 4 cyl. It couldn't really compare to the TL SH AWD, IMHO.
Plus, I'm still not convinced they (VW/Audi) really is all that reliable. That scares me more than anything with Audis. It's going to take a few years before we know if that issue has been addressed.
As far as lights, etc are concerned, you can bling any car with lights if you really want to (I'm not one of those big bling guys, though).