Acura TL 2009

graphicguy · July 2010

rlonn....I concur.

I hear this same thing whenever a manufacuturer changes their favorite model. I heard it with the Bangle designed BMWs. I heard it with the "kompressor" Mercedes, etc. Plenty of people who said they'd stay away from those models.

Fact is, others took their place and bought them.

FIrst thing I noticed when I first saw a 3G TL side-by-side with a 4G TL (have owned both), was how outdated the 4G makes the 3G really look. For years people and the press have whined about how "bland" Acuras looked. Well, they aren't bland anymore, yet they still have their critics, just like any car model.

I test drove all the competing brands (C 4 Matic, Audi A4/5, 3/535i xdrive, Infiniti Gx, even a Taurus SHO. I kept coming back to the TL as the most masculine looking and most distinctive car out of all of them. Performance-wise, it was on par with the BMW 535ix (which at the time cost ~$13K more). It was more spacious than all the others. Audi's 4 cyl motor was a hard sale for me at that price point. Plus, it lacked many of the finishing touches the TL had (look at the outside doorhandles of both).

I could go on and on, but I kept coming back to the TL as what I liked the most out of all those cars, for lots of different reasons.

Acura is taking the TL into a size and performance point of the 5 series, Audi A6, etc. Some will resiste that. But, that's why the TSX got a V6, and is roughly the same size as the 3G TL.

rlonn1 · July 2010

DITTO!!!! Took the words right out of my mouth!!

marcus216 · July 2010

I wholeheartedly agree, rlonn1. I also owned a 2000 TL. It was a nice car for that time. My new TL SH-AWD is miles ahead of that car in every category. I am the type of person that does extensive research on any major purchase whether it is a smart phone, HDTV, or automobile. I spent many hours researching and test driving more than one dozen different vehicles including the Buick Lacrosse, Mercedes E Class, BMW 3 and 5 series, Infiniti G and M, Audi A4 and A6, among others. Now, I had certain criteria that were a must for my new car. AWD, good backseat room, brisk acceleration and good handling. The choice for me was quite easy, The 2010 TL. I absolutely love the car. It is the very good combination of everything I was looking for and the styling, while a bit controversial, turns heads. Not a week goes by without several folks complimenting me on the looks of the car and asking me what model it is.

I applaud Acura for going out an a limb with the styling. They have hit a home run in my book. Is it perfect, of course not. I'd like to see rain sensing wipers. The funky tire size makes replacement tires much more expensive and the Stock Michelin M+S tires have a low tread life rating and I am concerned about their effectiveness in the snow. But those are nit picks. It is a great ride and many thousands less than direct competitors, which also makes it a great value.

hpmctorque · July 2010

" that's why the TSX got a V6, and is roughly the same size as the 3G TL."

Same size, but compare the back seats, including ease of entry and egress of the new TSX with the 3rd generation TL.

ctl · July 2010

I personally like the 09-10 style better than the older ones too. Not initially, but it has grown on me. Whether or not most agree on that though is another thing. 04-08 TL was the top seller (next to BMW 3) -> about 8K/month. But now? give you an example

April 2010
1. 3 - 8,712 (Combined coupe, cabrio, sedan)
2. C - 4,624
3. ES - 4,396
4. CTS - 3,278
5. A4 - 3,177
6. G - 3,001 (sedan only)
7. TL - 2,842
8. IS - 2,701 (combined sedan and cabrio)
9. MKZ - 1,817

nyccarguy · July 2010

The August issue of AUTOMOBILE pits a TL SH AWD 6MT against an Audi S4 on a track and the Acura holds its own with a bigger trunk & significant price advantage. Check it out.

rlonn1 · July 2010

Yes! I saw that when my Magazine arrived. I just signed up for it as part of my Home Audio, and Stereofile magazine promotion. Very first issue has this comparison! It was EXCITING to read on how good the TL is to the long term super engineered AWD S4!! All this positive talk means I need to go put a 5th coat of wax on the car just to BOND with it! :shades:

rlonn1 · July 2010

I am sure many of you have seen the new TSX commercial where they have a room filled with car engines all running surrounding a canary in a bird cage. Then they turn on the Audio Noise Canceling speakers to show you how quiet it becomes.

I know this first hand as my wife has a 2009 TSX, and it works like a bose noise canceling earphones, same principle!

I am sure all of you know that we have this in our 2009-2010 TL's as well.. In March of 2009 we got a new main family car, TSX, and we traded in her 2000 Honda EXL Coupe V6. I was still driving my Honda Pilot in 2009.

The TSX was our first Acura. I was so impressed with her car, that every time I took it to the dealer for its oil change or a few minor things I waited out in the show room and their was that SH-AWD Tech TL calling out to me!

In February I purchased my TL, kept the Pilot for those weekend trips to Home depot or 4X4 in the desert or mountains, and sold off my 1995 Nissan Quest.

BTW, I went out and checked my Rear View camera on the TL, and it is right on when it comes to the lines. If you DO NOT know what the horizontal and vertical lines mean, read the owners manual as they probably do more then you might have assumed!!

graphicguy · July 2010

nyc....lots of discussion on another forum about the AUTOMOBILE comparison to the S4. I think the point being, outside of the fact that the TL is a great drive, it competes (well) with cars costing much, much more.

That's the first time I had seen a TL SH AWD shown side-by-side with an Audi A/S series. You look at them head on, and you realize how "busy" the S4 looks compared to the clean look of the TL SH AWD. I prefer the latter over the former.

In addition to the favorable comparison, the TL also has a sizable feature and the afore mentioned large price advantage.

rlonn1 · July 2010

Where is this Other Forum? Is it here on Edmunds but under Audi??

billyperks2 · July 2010

I think I am going to follow your footsteps and keep it simple.
I will only swap out the license plate bulbs- got them in the mail yesterday.

Again-thanks.

rlonn1 · July 2010

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_vs_2010_au- di_s4/audi_specs_performance_test_data.html

rlonn1 · July 2010

Love to see a before and after picture...

billyperks2 · July 2010

I think I am going to follow your footsteps and keep it simple.
I will only swap out the license plate bulbs- got them in the mail yesterday.

Again-thanks.

graphicguy · July 2010

rlonn....don't remember what the Edmunds policy is regarding posting the address of forums outside of Edmunds, but the forum name is Acurazine. You can probably figure out the rest.

Kirstie_H · July 2010

That works.

We just really don't like solicitation to join other forums, but we realize they exist and the odd mention here or there is fine.

graphicguy · August 2010

Don't know how many of us get the Acura magazine ("Style"), but if you do, look for an article about mid way through the most recent issue. It has a very nice write up about a road trip in New Mexico driving a TL SH AWD.

Also, just thumbed through the most recent AUTOMOBILE magazine at Barnes and Noble. Great article comparing the TL SH AWD to an Audi S4. Bottom line, it was a wash. Audi won some performance parameters, the TL won some. They pretty much declared it a tie. Difference is, the S4 costs about $12K+ more than the TL SH AWD. Good read.

graphicguy · August 2010

This from Edmunds....

"its performance is competitive with that of the BMW 535i xDrive, which runs $10,000-$15,000 more when comparably equipped. And the TL SH-AWD is bigger and more comfortable than the marginally better-performing but pricier Audi S4."

"Build quality on our test car was exemplary  there were no squeaks or rattles, and everything in the cabin seemed to be put together exceptionally well."

Only think I disagree with Edmundson is the automatic version's 0-60 times. I've personally tested mine right around 5.7 secs just mashing the gas from a complete stop and having a passenger use a digital stop watch. Don't know if there was a different tuning between the '09 version (which Edmunds said was slower) and the '10 version (which I own).

All-in-all, another great read.

billyperks2 · August 2010

Graphic-
Although I really dont put much emphasis on 0-60 times, I was kind of taken aback when Edmunds mentioned sixes for the auto TL AWD. Dont hold me to this, but if memory serves me right, I saw in the back pages of Car and Driver magazine that it was in the mid fives.

There is no difference in the 2009 and 2010 apart from the 6MT, the tuning is the same.

gbosil · August 2010

Any news on the next generation TL Type S? Can't seem to find anything. Hope they don't scrap any plans in developing one!!

graphicguy · August 2010

I dunno billy. Maybe there's some different ECU tuning between the '09 and the '10. All I know is that my '10 feels faster than the '09 I test drove when the 4G first came out. Plus, very unofficially, I'd say mine is running 5.7/sec from a dead stop and mashing the gas (with the tranny in sport mode). I don't think using sport mode would make that much of a difference, though.

6-sp manual should shave a couple of tenths off that, I would think....if you got a good launch and speed shift.

As you say though, Acuras have never been about 0-60 times. It's the total package that people lay down their cash for.

graphicguy · August 2010

gbosil....there's been a lot of talk that the SH AWD is the Type S version of the TL. No one's heard anything about the Type S. From what I've read and heard, the 2011s are going to be the same as the 2010s...maybe some minor tweaks here and there.

2012 will be the year for a mid-cycle refreshening. Maybe a Type S then?

That said, it seems like Acura has been buzzing more about a hybrid than anything else, so who knows.

billyperks2 · August 2010

Maybe you are right because I never drove the 2010, you drove them both, so I guess you can tell a difference. Took mine over the Tappan Zee Bridge yesterday to a Sate Park, the navigation was directing me in in circles but I knew where I was going. Do you get that sometimes when you know where you are going and its putting you somewhere else?

rlonn1 · August 2010

Not sure where the Tappan Zee Bridge is, but I have driven in San Diego, Los Angeles and Las Vegas and the navigation is dead on. Had a road closed in South Las Vegas near the airport for construction, if it was not for the Navigation know telling where I would have landed up, but it got me back to the hotel just fine! I think the BMW in front of me must have had NAV as he and I were going in the same direction!

billyperks2 · August 2010

It's in New York. I am not saying it does not get you there but it gets you there in a roundabout way. I have my address programmed in, and at times its taking me all over town just to get home. One more glitch, yesterday when I got off the 287 to get onto the local route there was a sharp curve and the Nav did not tell me to merge right. I ended up back on the Bridge and had to circle back to that same spot to merge right- go figure. Overall though, I am satisfied with it, maybe the kids where getting on my nerves about "Are we there yet."

nyccarguy · August 2010

It appears we're from the same neck of the woods. I just moved from Hartsdale to Stamford. What park were you headed for? My wife has a 2010 TSX Tech. There are so many roads that get you to the same place in NY (especially Westchester), but the nav system just sends you the shortest or fastest route.

Ever try to set your NAV to take you to Jersey? It'll send you down the Deegan, across the Cross Bronx, and over the GW. Which is great if you have 2 hours to waste sitting in traffic. But you know to take the Tappan Zee (does it bother you when traffic people call it "the Tap?") down the Palisades to the Turnpike or Go over the TZ & down the Garden State.

billyperks2 · August 2010

I was headed to Rockland State Park in Nyack and it was telling me to get off Exit 10 off the 287. This is exit 10 at the start of the 287 right off exit 21 off the 95 south.

There is another exit 10 right after you get off the Tap.

That would have put me Purchase or Harrison- go figure.

nyccarguy · August 2010

That's funny. I never thought of it like that. Big difference between Rye Brook & Nyack. I think 287 (in Westchester) is listed as I-287 on the NAV, while The New York State Thruway (Actually The Governer Tomas E Dewey New York State Thruway) is actually listed as I-87/I-287 on the NAV.

gbosil · August 2010

Thanks for the input graphic. I was talking to my local Acura tech yesterday and he heard a rumor of 350 - 365 HP Acura TLS 2012. He said just a rumor but nonetheless from the same credible source just before the 2007 TLS was released. I guess we will have to wait and see. He said Acura is always sealed tight on any new projects like Fort Knox!

I hope they do a better redesign for 2012. I am not diggin the new TL at all! I just purchased a 2010 TSX Tech as a compromise and will hold on to my 07' TLS until the new TL redesign comes out. I can't get over the front grille and rear end!

Sorry guys I am loyal to the Acura brand but the new TL does nothing for me.

graphicguy · August 2010

Nothing wrong with a TSX. They're nice cars.

If you don't like the TL (or any car, for that matter), it's certainly not worth your hard earned dollars.

I love mine.

Can't speak to the 2012s. Personally, I don't think the dealers know any more than any of us for the same reason you mentioned....Acura is so tight lipped. I've got my own theories. Acura has been talking hybrid. I'm betting that's their next move with the TL.

The 3.7L is pretty large for a V6. You start getting larger to get a 40HP-50HP increase, and the displacement bump needed to do that would make the motor relatively harsh (vs the current motor which is tremendously smooth). I guess they could slap a turbo or supercharger on it, but that would negatively affect fuel economy. And, their V8 plans they had for the dormant NSX are all but dead.

So, unless they come out with a totally new V6 (which would cost a ton of money to do), I don't see many changes in the foreseeable future with the TL motor.

I question my NAV every once in awhile. I'd say 98% of the time, it either takes me a quicker route or a shorter route. The other 2% of the time it says the road is uncharted.

Favorite feature of the NAV.......no matter where I'm at, it always finds my way home.

billyperks2 · August 2010

Maybe you are right and I was not paying attention to details, further more, the kids were starting to get rowdy in the back-maybe all that threw me off.

xrunner2 · August 2010

Customers, potential customers, former customers have spoken out about the current gen of Acura 09-10. Many have said no. Sales of current gen are down compared to previous 04-08.

Too bad that conservative, careful Honda Company went out on a limb with an avant garde, grotesque design having limited appeal to the market niche the TL is in.

Why can't a company having a succesful shape and design in a vehicle such as 04-08 TL simply evolve it rather than make a complete makeover. Honda/Acura could take a lesson from Porsche 911. That car has evolved over 40+ years and the current version still has shape, cues from 911 of the late 60's.

nyccarguy · August 2010

Don't tell the whole story though. There was A LOT of subsidized leasing going on back then. The economy is a whole lot worse now than it was back then too. So yes, I'm sure the styling of the current generation TL has turned off a few repeat or potential buyers, but that number is hard to quantify.

I too was originally turned off by the current TL's "beak.". It has grown on me. I really dig the styling on the rear end of the SH AWD model. The interior is gorgeous. If it drives as good as my '01 Prelude Type SH & my wife's '10 TSX, a TL SH AWD with 6 speed stick might just be my next car.

billyperks2 · August 2010

Same old story, different poster- tell us something we don't know.

gbosil · August 2010

Okay everybody...

Here are the true sales stats for the TL from Acura:

1999 = 56,566
2000 2G = 67,033
2001 = 69,484
2002 = 60,764
2003 = 56,770
2004 3G = 77,895
2005 = 78,218
2006 = 71,348
2007 = 58,545
2008 = 48,766
2009 4G = 33,620

Looks like the new redesign 3G in 2004 is more than double the sales of the current TL 4G. Numbers don't lie. But it also appears Acura has been loosing sales starting in 2006. Now in 2010 BMW is selling more than 8,600 3 series per month to Acura's
2,200 TL units per month.

I still stand by my thoughts on the new TL... I don't like it period! I own a 07' TLS and now a new 10' TSX. I am a loyal Acura owner but feel the new TL was a mistake! But that's just my opinion. I am sure Acura has lost some loyal cutomers now to BMW & Audi. Great job Acura!

graphicguy · August 2010

Acura has made it clear, they're repositioning their entire lineup. The TL now seems to be the top of their lineup. It competes with the BMW 5, Infiniti M, etc in size, performance, features. It will take awhile for that to sink into the marketplace.

The TSX replaces the 3G TL. It's roughly the size of the Infiniti G, Benz C class, BMW 3 and Audi 4.

I don't know of anyone who owns a 4G TL who doesn't absolutely love it (me included).....:

:shades:

billyperks2 · August 2010

Since you have all the time in the world to pull sales numbers, why dont you do the same for the bimmer, audi, infiniti etc etc and maybe you will see the same downward spike.
I really don't care how many units of the TL is sold because I have no buyers remorse.I washed mine yseterday and applied two wipedowns of the Zaino Z6, took it to the Gym this morning and peeked at it through the large glass window- I said WOW, this car is a stand out- White Diamond Pearl -35% tint. I can tell because most commuters walking to catch the train gave it a double look.

marcus216 · August 2010

I absolutely agree. The 3G Model was positioned as an entry level luxury performace sedan that was more tame than a 3 series, but had more room and comfort, sort of a Lexus - BMW hybrid. The 4G Model is now postitioned as a true performance sedan that competes very well versus a 5 Series, A6, or Infiniti M. It takes time for buyers to get this. I never considered a TL SH-AWD until a friend of mine bought one. And then, it was over, I had to have one

rlonn1 · August 2010

I am sure the DOWNTURN in the Economy has nothing to do with any of this? $43K is a lot of money for middle america.... I was concerned about my job like so many other americans, and we are not out of the woods just yet. But I decided to stop worrying and pulled the trigger on my SH-AWD 2010 TL. Glad I did and never looked back! I said this weeks ago, when they changed the front Grill on my 2005 Pilot in 2007, I was very dissapointed in what it looked like, and to this day feel my Pilot still looks sharp compared to the re-designed front grill and then they put on those Ugly Transparent rear taillight like Nissan was putting on the Maxima... The spy photos show them Raising Up the rear license plate in 2012? WHAT???? It takes that nice divider line and breaks it up with a License Plate that should be on top or bottom but not in the middle? Looks Strange.. Most if not many of us think and feel Acura got it right! To change the design, for the sake of CHANGE, could land up making the TL Less Attractive! One thing for sure, it should NEVER look like a 3G, if it does Acura has gone backwards!

Kirstie_H · August 2010

Since you have all the time in the world to pull sales numbers, why dont you do the same for the bimmer, audi, infiniti etc etc and maybe you will see the same downward spike.

Because those aren't vehicles under discussion in this topic.
However, I do agree that new car sales have declined for a lot of manufacturers, not necessarily due to the vehicles' appeal, but due to consumer spending habits. And, like you, I don't base my purchasing decisions on the number of other people who have made the same decision! Buy what you like... I still wish they made the Integra.

kfdmed · August 2010

The Maxima does not have nor did it ever have ...

"those Ugly Transparent rear taillight like Nissan was putting on the Maxima..."

nyccarguy · August 2010

The big drop off is from the peak in '05 until '07 when they sold 20,000 less units. From '07 to '08 they then sold 10,000 less units. From '08 to '09 (1st year of redesign) the drop off in sales was 15K units. I think a lot of that has do do with the economy being in the toilet. Maybe a handful who don't like the styling.

gbosil · August 2010

Agreed... the Economy does have something to do with that but BMW has consistently been able to sell on avg of 8,000 3 series a month in 2010 vs Acura's TL at 2,100 a month. Audi is right on the heels of BMW sales. So the TL sales for 2010 will come in about 22K Avg for the year much less than 2009 sales. Dunnno... looks like the wrong direction wouldn't ya think? Not really sure what the answer is? I still love Acura cars regardless of the numbers. I just hope Acura wakes up and makes the 5G TL more attractive to a wider audience.

jtla · August 2010

Very good points. Economy is undeniably a factor, but all you have to do is to compare the stat with other models in the same segment. The drop in TL sales seemed out of proportion. And, this is despite the introduction of a new generation which would usually spike the sales but not happening in Gen 4 TL.

On the flip side, those who do appreciate the new design get to enjoy the "exclusiveness" of not seeing one at every corner.

graphicguy · August 2010

kirstie....I still wish they made the NSX, too.

When I first saw the 4G TL in person, it was at my dealer's "TL KICKOFF" event, where they invite current and former customers for a preview of a new model. Kind of a ritzy event with a 3 piece jazz band, food and refreshments.

Before they let us test drive (which they only offered to each of us for about 5 minutes, each), they had a 4G TL side-by-side to a 3G TL-S. Understand, that I used to own a 3G when they first came out, too. Seeing them side-be-side, the 3G looked ancient and out of date. The 4G, on the other hand, looked "masculine" to me with the edgy look. I liked it immediately.

I test drove the G37x, the BMW 335i and 535i xdrive, the Audi A4/5 quattro, the Mercedes C300 and E 350 4 matic. The TL SH AWD was comparable (size, performance, ride, handling, etc) to the 535i xDrive. However, loading the BMW up like the TL, I was looking at a $15K price delta. All the others, I didn't like as much as the BMW, nor the TL. That made my decision for me.

Understand, Acura used to have a TL coupe (CL). They know longer offer coupes, of any type. So, their numbers are down there. As someone else pointed out $43K for a car isn't exactly in the volume range for any manufacturer.

You look at the BMW 3 Series, there's the 328, 335, coupe, convertible, RWD, xDrive, etc. Their volume is spread over a ton of differing models. Same goes for Infiniti G37, coupe, sedan, convertible "S" version. This model year, there was also a "special edition").

TL has two distinct versions....TL base, and TL SH AWD (which is widely considered the "S" version).

But, as kirstie said, buy what you like. That's why there are so many different models and price points.

graphicguy · August 2010

Just completed a ~500 mile round trip over the weekend. Great drive over some beautiful unpopulated back roads. Car performed great...amazingly! 27.8 MPG for the entire trip. In the 4 months I've owned my TL SH AWD, I've kept a running MPG through 4,000 miles, highway, gridlock, in-town, A/C on constantly. 21.6 MPG overall. I'm very pleased.

rlonn1 · August 2010

21..6 Overall is in line, and my trip from San Diego to Las Vegas got me around 25, but 27.8 MPG although exciting seems way to high for this car and engine, Higher then the factory sticker, unless you know a secret? :confuse: :confuse:

nyccarguy · August 2010

every time I see a TL SH AWD, I like it more and more. Today I saw a black/black one parked @ the beach. It is a really sharp looking car that would be more than welcome in my garage.

I've actually convinced my Mom to go and drive one. She has an E90 328xi with a lease maturing in December. She drove a 2011 X5 & a 2011 F10 535i and really liked them both. She should, they are both $60,000 BMWs for crying out loud! I don't think the X5 is for her. The 5 series is perfect for her, but the X-Drive AWD models aren't coming out until October or November. I think something like 85% of BMWs sold in the northeast are X-Drive equipped, so even though the economy is still in the toilet, people's leases are up and the 5er is brand new, so according to our dealer there is a waiting list. That means the cars will probably go for very close to MSRP for a few months until production catches up.

I told her to go check out a TL SH AWD. She's a little aprehensive because there are no Acura dealers where she lives. The closest is about 20 min - 1/2 hour away which isn't far for service, but she is concerned about if there's ever a problem. She also LOVES the service advisor at our BMW dealership (we do to, the guy is incredible). I'll keep yopu guys posted.

laurasdada · August 2010

...is really my biggest objection to the 4G TL styling. I just can not get by it, to me it is an atrocity. I still find the 3G styling to be quite handsome. It may not have all the surface excitement and jewelry of the 4G, but it still turns my head without having to scream.

Just did a 345 mile jaunt in my '05. First part of the journey was mostly highway, with (per computer) mpg peaking at 31mpg @ avg. speed of 67mph. Whole trip, 80/20 highway I returned 29mpg at 51mph. Muy bien.

I still think the most solidly put together car I've yet owned was my '88 Integra. Close the doors on that baby and you were hermetically sealed in!

smarty666 · August 2010

Its not unusual to beat the epa mpg ratings on the window sticker any more. If you use the right brand of gas and match the lead foot you can really get some sweet mpgs out of the newer vehicles.

Acura TL 2009

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