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I hear this same thing whenever a manufacuturer changes their favorite model. I heard it with the Bangle designed BMWs. I heard it with the "kompressor" Mercedes, etc. Plenty of people who said they'd stay away from those models.
Fact is, others took their place and bought them.
FIrst thing I noticed when I first saw a 3G TL side-by-side with a 4G TL (have owned both), was how outdated the 4G makes the 3G really look. For years people and the press have whined about how "bland" Acuras looked. Well, they aren't bland anymore, yet they still have their critics, just like any car model.
I test drove all the competing brands (C 4 Matic, Audi A4/5, 3/535i xdrive, Infiniti Gx, even a Taurus SHO. I kept coming back to the TL as the most masculine looking and most distinctive car out of all of them. Performance-wise, it was on par with the BMW 535ix (which at the time cost ~$13K more). It was more spacious than all the others. Audi's 4 cyl motor was a hard sale for me at that price point. Plus, it lacked many of the finishing touches the TL had (look at the outside doorhandles of both).
I could go on and on, but I kept coming back to the TL as what I liked the most out of all those cars, for lots of different reasons.
Acura is taking the TL into a size and performance point of the 5 series, Audi A6, etc. Some will resiste that. But, that's why the TSX got a V6, and is roughly the same size as the 3G TL.
I applaud Acura for going out an a limb with the styling. They have hit a home run in my book. Is it perfect, of course not. I'd like to see rain sensing wipers. The funky tire size makes replacement tires much more expensive and the Stock Michelin M+S tires have a low tread life rating and I am concerned about their effectiveness in the snow. But those are nit picks. It is a great ride and many thousands less than direct competitors, which also makes it a great value.
Same size, but compare the back seats, including ease of entry and egress of the new TSX with the 3rd generation TL.
April 2010
1. 3 - 8,712 (Combined coupe, cabrio, sedan)
2. C - 4,624
3. ES - 4,396
4. CTS - 3,278
5. A4 - 3,177
6. G - 3,001 (sedan only)
7. TL - 2,842
8. IS - 2,701 (combined sedan and cabrio)
9. MKZ - 1,817
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I know this first hand as my wife has a 2009 TSX, and it works like a bose noise canceling earphones, same principle!
I am sure all of you know that we have this in our 2009-2010 TL's as well.. In March of 2009 we got a new main family car, TSX, and we traded in her 2000 Honda EXL Coupe V6. I was still driving my Honda Pilot in 2009.
The TSX was our first Acura. I was so impressed with her car, that every time I took it to the dealer for its oil change or a few minor things I waited out in the show room and their was that SH-AWD Tech TL calling out to me!
In February I purchased my TL, kept the Pilot for those weekend trips to Home depot or 4X4 in the desert or mountains, and sold off my 1995 Nissan Quest.
BTW, I went out and checked my Rear View camera on the TL, and it is right on when it comes to the lines. If you DO NOT know what the horizontal and vertical lines mean, read the owners manual as they probably do more then you might have assumed!!
That's the first time I had seen a TL SH AWD shown side-by-side with an Audi A/S series. You look at them head on, and you realize how "busy" the S4 looks compared to the clean look of the TL SH AWD. I prefer the latter over the former.
In addition to the favorable comparison, the TL also has a sizable feature and the afore mentioned large price advantage.
I will only swap out the license plate bulbs- got them in the mail yesterday.
Again-thanks.
I will only swap out the license plate bulbs- got them in the mail yesterday.
Again-thanks.
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Also, just thumbed through the most recent AUTOMOBILE magazine at Barnes and Noble. Great article comparing the TL SH AWD to an Audi S4. Bottom line, it was a wash. Audi won some performance parameters, the TL won some. They pretty much declared it a tie. Difference is, the S4 costs about $12K+ more than the TL SH AWD. Good read.
"its performance is competitive with that of the BMW 535i xDrive, which runs $10,000-$15,000 more when comparably equipped. And the TL SH-AWD is bigger and more comfortable than the marginally better-performing but pricier Audi S4."
"Build quality on our test car was exemplary — there were no squeaks or rattles, and everything in the cabin seemed to be put together exceptionally well."
Only think I disagree with Edmundson is the automatic version's 0-60 times. I've personally tested mine right around 5.7 secs just mashing the gas from a complete stop and having a passenger use a digital stop watch. Don't know if there was a different tuning between the '09 version (which Edmunds said was slower) and the '10 version (which I own).
All-in-all, another great read.
Although I really dont put much emphasis on 0-60 times, I was kind of taken aback when Edmunds mentioned sixes for the auto TL AWD. Dont hold me to this, but if memory serves me right, I saw in the back pages of Car and Driver magazine that it was in the mid fives.
There is no difference in the 2009 and 2010 apart from the 6MT, the tuning is the same.
6-sp manual should shave a couple of tenths off that, I would think....if you got a good launch and speed shift.
As you say though, Acuras have never been about 0-60 times. It's the total package that people lay down their cash for.
2012 will be the year for a mid-cycle refreshening. Maybe a Type S then?
That said, it seems like Acura has been buzzing more about a hybrid than anything else, so who knows.
Ever try to set your NAV to take you to Jersey? It'll send you down the Deegan, across the Cross Bronx, and over the GW. Which is great if you have 2 hours to waste sitting in traffic. But you know to take the Tappan Zee (does it bother you when traffic people call it "the Tap?") down the Palisades to the Turnpike or Go over the TZ & down the Garden State.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
There is another exit 10 right after you get off the Tap.
That would have put me Purchase or Harrison- go figure.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
If you don't like the TL (or any car, for that matter), it's certainly not worth your hard earned dollars.
I love mine.
Can't speak to the 2012s. Personally, I don't think the dealers know any more than any of us for the same reason you mentioned....Acura is so tight lipped. I've got my own theories. Acura has been talking hybrid. I'm betting that's their next move with the TL.
The 3.7L is pretty large for a V6. You start getting larger to get a 40HP-50HP increase, and the displacement bump needed to do that would make the motor relatively harsh (vs the current motor which is tremendously smooth). I guess they could slap a turbo or supercharger on it, but that would negatively affect fuel economy. And, their V8 plans they had for the dormant NSX are all but dead.
So, unless they come out with a totally new V6 (which would cost a ton of money to do), I don't see many changes in the foreseeable future with the TL motor.
I question my NAV every once in awhile. I'd say 98% of the time, it either takes me a quicker route or a shorter route. The other 2% of the time it says the road is uncharted.
Favorite feature of the NAV.......no matter where I'm at, it always finds my way home.
Too bad that conservative, careful Honda Company went out on a limb with an avant garde, grotesque design having limited appeal to the market niche the TL is in.
Why can't a company having a succesful shape and design in a vehicle such as 04-08 TL simply evolve it rather than make a complete makeover. Honda/Acura could take a lesson from Porsche 911. That car has evolved over 40+ years and the current version still has shape, cues from 911 of the late 60's.
I too was originally turned off by the current TL's "beak.". It has grown on me. I really dig the styling on the rear end of the SH AWD model. The interior is gorgeous. If it drives as good as my '01 Prelude Type SH & my wife's '10 TSX, a TL SH AWD with 6 speed stick might just be my next car.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Here are the true sales stats for the TL from Acura:
1999 = 56,566
2000 2G = 67,033
2001 = 69,484
2002 = 60,764
2003 = 56,770
2004 3G = 77,895
2005 = 78,218
2006 = 71,348
2007 = 58,545
2008 = 48,766
2009 4G = 33,620
Looks like the new redesign 3G in 2004 is more than double the sales of the current TL 4G. Numbers don't lie. But it also appears Acura has been loosing sales starting in 2006. Now in 2010 BMW is selling more than 8,600 3 series per month to Acura's
2,200 TL units per month.
I still stand by my thoughts on the new TL... I don't like it period! I own a 07' TLS and now a new 10' TSX. I am a loyal Acura owner but feel the new TL was a mistake! But that's just my opinion. I am sure Acura has lost some loyal cutomers now to BMW & Audi. Great job Acura!
The TSX replaces the 3G TL. It's roughly the size of the Infiniti G, Benz C class, BMW 3 and Audi 4.
I don't know of anyone who owns a 4G TL who doesn't absolutely love it (me included).....: :shades:
I really don't care how many units of the TL is sold because I have no buyers remorse.I washed mine yseterday and applied two wipedowns of the Zaino Z6, took it to the Gym this morning and peeked at it through the large glass window- I said WOW, this car is a stand out- White Diamond Pearl -35% tint. I can tell because most commuters walking to catch the train gave it a double look.
Because those aren't vehicles under discussion in this topic.
However, I do agree that new car sales have declined for a lot of manufacturers, not necessarily due to the vehicles' appeal, but due to consumer spending habits. And, like you, I don't base my purchasing decisions on the number of other people who have made the same decision! Buy what you like... I still wish they made the Integra.
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"those Ugly Transparent rear taillight like Nissan was putting on the Maxima..."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
On the flip side, those who do appreciate the new design get to enjoy the "exclusiveness" of not seeing one at every corner.
When I first saw the 4G TL in person, it was at my dealer's "TL KICKOFF" event, where they invite current and former customers for a preview of a new model. Kind of a ritzy event with a 3 piece jazz band, food and refreshments.
Before they let us test drive (which they only offered to each of us for about 5 minutes, each), they had a 4G TL side-by-side to a 3G TL-S. Understand, that I used to own a 3G when they first came out, too. Seeing them side-be-side, the 3G looked ancient and out of date. The 4G, on the other hand, looked "masculine" to me with the edgy look. I liked it immediately.
I test drove the G37x, the BMW 335i and 535i xdrive, the Audi A4/5 quattro, the Mercedes C300 and E 350 4 matic. The TL SH AWD was comparable (size, performance, ride, handling, etc) to the 535i xDrive. However, loading the BMW up like the TL, I was looking at a $15K price delta. All the others, I didn't like as much as the BMW, nor the TL. That made my decision for me.
Understand, Acura used to have a TL coupe (CL). They know longer offer coupes, of any type. So, their numbers are down there. As someone else pointed out $43K for a car isn't exactly in the volume range for any manufacturer.
You look at the BMW 3 Series, there's the 328, 335, coupe, convertible, RWD, xDrive, etc. Their volume is spread over a ton of differing models. Same goes for Infiniti G37, coupe, sedan, convertible "S" version. This model year, there was also a "special edition").
TL has two distinct versions....TL base, and TL SH AWD (which is widely considered the "S" version).
But, as kirstie said, buy what you like. That's why there are so many different models and price points.
I've actually convinced my Mom to go and drive one. She has an E90 328xi with a lease maturing in December. She drove a 2011 X5 & a 2011 F10 535i and really liked them both. She should, they are both $60,000 BMWs for crying out loud! I don't think the X5 is for her. The 5 series is perfect for her, but the X-Drive AWD models aren't coming out until October or November. I think something like 85% of BMWs sold in the northeast are X-Drive equipped, so even though the economy is still in the toilet, people's leases are up and the 5er is brand new, so according to our dealer there is a waiting list. That means the cars will probably go for very close to MSRP for a few months until production catches up.
I told her to go check out a TL SH AWD. She's a little aprehensive because there are no Acura dealers where she lives. The closest is about 20 min - 1/2 hour away which isn't far for service, but she is concerned about if there's ever a problem. She also LOVES the service advisor at our BMW dealership (we do to, the guy is incredible). I'll keep yopu guys posted.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Just did a 345 mile jaunt in my '05. First part of the journey was mostly highway, with (per computer) mpg peaking at 31mpg @ avg. speed of 67mph. Whole trip, 80/20 highway I returned 29mpg at 51mph. Muy bien.
I still think the most solidly put together car I've yet owned was my '88 Integra. Close the doors on that baby and you were hermetically sealed in!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)