Subaru Legacy/Outback Tire Issues

ateixeira · January 2007

Not a bad idea. 10mm wider where you contact the sand, too.

That's what I did with my Forester - went from 215/60R16 to 225/60R16.

-juice

xwesx · January 2007

Hard cornering will still wear the front tires faster. I had not even considered the drive (AWD/FWD/RWD) factor, but that could be significant if you make a habit of burning rubber.

ateixeira · January 2007

My OE tires did that, but my 2nd set did not, nor did my 3rd set. Maybe I slowed down a bit since I usually have kids in the car.

-juice

njjuliano · January 2007

Hey Juice,

Can you state what were real world differences in mpg, handle and power with the Forester?

njjuliano · January 2007

Follow up on advice:

Concerning fitting 235s on the stock wheels, according to Discount Tire Direct, the stock wheels can only accomodate 225 as its widest, so unless a purchase of new rims is in order, my original advice of going to 235 is not feasible.

Too bad, cause I was headed that way as well.

fibber2 · January 2007

Rather than spend so much effort in trying to fit a different size tire on your car, may I suggest a different approach? I think what you are really looking for is a tread pattern for sand or snow that grips and moves the vehicle forward, rather than spinning and effectively 'digging' the vehicle in with each revolution.

I would suggest that you visit your local tire stores with a flexible tape measure in hand. Look for an open tread design with lots of bars across the tread rather than the more typical bands. Also check the circumference. Tire sizing is somewhat variable. Winter and Off-Road tires typically have 10-12 / 32 tread depth rather than Summer and All-Seasons, with 8/32 or so and thus stand taller.

Shoulder broadness also impacts actual tread width on the road. 235mm is the section width measured at the widest part, the tire body center. Actual "tread width" can vary all over the place - maybe up to an inch depending on the tire model.

Steve

ateixeira · January 2007

I first went from 205/70R15 to 225/60R16, with new rims as well. So that change was dramatic, as you might imagine.

But when those tires were worn, I went from 225/60R16 to 215/60R16, which is the stock size. I downsized because I no longer drive on the beach. We stopped going to the Outer Banks and I own a place in Ocean City within walking distance to the ocean, so I no longer needed the wider tires.

To be honest, the differences were small. The new tires are Falkens and I like them better, but I attribute that to the tires themselves being better than the Nitto NT460s I had on there before.

-juice

hamez · January 2007

Thank you Doug, that is exactly what I want to do. All I have to do now is find a set of rims, and then replace the silly tires that came with it.

lilengineerboy · February 2007

Tire width has very little to do with load rating (handling the weight). Wider tires are more likely to float over water (hydroplane) and have less snow traction, but are also more likely to float over dirt and sand. The OEM tire and any replacement should be rated to handle the max laden weight (GVWR) of the vehicle.
What is your goal of changing to a smaller diameter tire? All that would do is increase the sidewall height which will decrease the handling on road and make it harder for the tire to support weight.

lilengineerboy · February 2007

I have had VictorRacers and Ecsta 7## as well as Ecsta ASXs currently. So far I have had a very positive experience with all of them.

paisan · February 2007

Actually a reduced diameter of the tire will decrease the sidewall height, increase handling and increase acceleration.

A reduced rim size, while keeping stock diameter or increasing diameter will give you more sidewall, better off-road ability due to the give in the sidewall, and a better overall ride due to a softer area.

-Mike

lilengineerboy · February 2007

Actually a reduced diameter of the tire will decrease the sidewall height, increase handling and increase acceleration.

I didn't realize you were going to change the tire's external diameter. That will effectively change your final drive ratio, making the car "geared lower" which will adversely affect the speedometer reading and fuel economy.

It will have very little affect on handling except for possible reduction in unsprung weight from getting lighter tires and wheels. If one is looking for handling, it would've been better to select the Legacy wagon vs the Outback to being with, but a +0 or +1 tire fitment would have a better effect on handling, while keeping other drive characteristics (gearing, speedometer) the same.

A reduced rim size, while keeping stock diameter or increasing diameter will give you more sidewall, better off-road ability due to the give in the sidewall, and a better overall ride due to a softer area.

I concur, but this will come at the expense of on-road handling and possibly load carrying capacity (it is easier to make a lower-profile tire stiffer to support weight in a passenger car tire).

paisan · February 2007

Agreed, and I'm not sure what the original poster was attempting to do! Ha Ha Ha.

-mike

njjuliano · February 2007

Have you considered switching with an older gen Outback. I know mine came with 16s. I dont think they should have clearance issues with the brakes on either cars. Incidentally, where are you located?

hamez · February 2007

WOW I didn't expect such a showing of concern for a simple tire question, and I appreciate all of it. I understand all the posts and they are very helpful. I wanted a beefier tire, as simple as that. The low profile 55's don't make me happy when I am completely loaded up for camping they flatten out a little. I don't want to put to much extra tire pressure in them. So I thought if I decrease the rim size I could get a larger side wall. Due to the fact there isn't a lot a clearance in the wheel well. I know that I need to keep as close as possibly to the original size for reasons mentioned. At the same time I was hoping to make these my winter tires as I do a lot of driving all over the northeast. SO PLEASE CONTINUE to tell me the right thing to do, I love all of the input. Thank you in advance, Hamez

lilengineerboy · February 2007

I would look for a tire in the same size with a higher load rating. A larger side wall is going to make it worse, not better.

ncc4 · February 2007

Has anyone tried the Goodyear Comfort Tread 225-55-17's on the new Outbacks? I have a 2007 and am finding the original equipment Bridgestones less than capable on the snow/ice we now have. The Goodyears are very well rated on the Tireracks website, but that's not the same as an actual Outback owners experience.

Thanks
Nigel

denver5357 · February 2007

We bought the Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds a week after buying a 2007 Outback. Then it promptly stopped snowing. But in some mixed ice/rain we have found them to be better tires than the Bridgestone originals (which I sold on Craigs List). I didn't drive the Bridgestone's long enough to allow a more complete comparison.

xwesx · February 2007

I do not know why I tend to buy Goodyear tires, but the ones I have purchased are very good tires with excellent tread wear, and at a reasonable price. Availability is also good in my isolated market (Fairbanks, AK).

I had Assurance TripleTred on my '96 Outback as year-rounds. I put about 25,000 miles on them before the car's demise. Great tires for ice, as far as all-seasons go. Not even comparable to the OEM Bridgestone RE92's. Wear was at 9/32's at the end - ironically I had the car at a shop only a week before its death, to get a leak (puncture) fixed. It did seem that they dropped my mileage considerably. Maybe as much as 10%. On summer trips the year prior, I would get 26 mpg on the all-highway stretch between Fairbanks and Anchorage. Last summer I topped out at 24.5 mpg, all other things being equal.

So far, for my '07 Outback, I am leaning toward the ComfortTred for "summer" months (probably April through Sept/Oct, depending on when the snow flies) and the Eagle Ultra Grip Ice for winter. If I go that route, it will be my first set of winter tires... ever. I almost look forward to it, but still have not fully convinced myself it is "necessary" to the point of actually spending the money on it. :sick:

nodonuts · February 2007

denver5357 · February 2007

I hear you. I bought my first-ever set of snow tires in December 2006, after two blizzards stranded us here in Colorado and my '93 Corolla had no chance at getting out of our driveway. I put the snow tires on the Corolla - even studded them - and instant grip on ice and the ability to blast through snow drifts that had immediately high-centered me before. That worked great for the next four snow storms (inches varying from 3 to 8). Now that it has been 50 degrees and the snow is all gone I feel somewhat conspicuous in my LOUD studded snow tires.

I'm hoping the Assurance Treds will be all-season for us on the Outback for a couple years, at least.

steveb10 · April 2007

2006 Outback Manual Trans. Got a sidewall damaged tire in Death Valley one mile from the highway on the way out! Was out in the back country for 3 days. Put the space saver spare on the rear cause that's what the manual says to do. Had to get home to Oakland Sunday, so I drove it back home all the way at 50 mph (well 55 actually). That tire is definitely smaller than the original rubber on that car, but would think that Subaru would realize that families gotta get home on the spare tire they provide- even if it is about 1/2 inch smaller diameter. You guys think any damage was done to the fancy drive train? There is no mention in the manual regarding distance allowed. By the way, 450 miles will wear your space saver out. I'm gettin me a full size wheel and spare. No more boondock trips with no proper spare for me...

paisan · April 2007

Please don't tell me you drove 450 miles on a donut tire? They are go for 50 miles at 50mph only! I believe it is stamped right on the tire.

-mike

rsholland · April 2007

Mike's right. These are limited-use tires only, with a very short tire lifewhich is why I HATE these things!

Bob

paisan · April 2007

Oh yeah have to agree. I always run a full-size spare in my cars. Heck when we do the 48hrs of Tri-state each year which is an 800-1500 mile trip in a weekend we REQUIRE all participants to have a full size spare with them.

-mike

steveb10 · April 2007

Well I didn't relish the idea of driving that far on the damn thing but short of finding a motel for two nights etc etc, I really had no choice. It was Saturday night in an area that had no services. Do you really think that Subaru would supply a tire that will damage the drivetrain in 450 miles? I can't believe they never considered the possibility that their all wheel drive cars might have to get a family home on a spare. By the way the sticker on the tire only states a speed limit not a distance limit. There is no mention of a distance limit in the manual either. I figured the issue was mainly safety- reduced braking and handling capability with the skinny tire.

rsholland · April 2007

What I find annoying is that Subaru equips full-size spares on car sold in other markets other than North America. If you buy an Outback in Australia, it comes with a full-size spare.

Bob

paisan · April 2007

In other markets I think they get narrower tires, so they fit in the wheel wells. Also overseas I think the vehicle cost is higher. It's all about the cost savings.

And no offense to the original poster but it's rare to find ANY car that doesn't come with a donut tire, I think VW is the only one with a full size spare std across the board.

-mike

steveb10 · April 2007

I find that the full size 225/55/17 won't fit in the wheel well fully inflated. I needed to air it down to about 15 psi and then it barely fits. So I guess I'll have to carry a pump now too. I guess I'll find out how this all works out today when I pick up the two new tires from the dealer. They anted up $113 towards replacing the damaged tire, and I bought an additional rim so now I will have 5 good tires that I'll put in the rotation. I haven't driven the car since I parked it in the driveway at 3:00 am Sunday morning, so I don't know yet if the fancy viscous do-dad or the differential is toast until I drive it later today. The car drove fine but there was a definite singing rumble from the corner where the spare was. Maybe they are just noisy because they hold 60 psi?

rsholland · April 2007

As Mike stated, with the Outback it's a size issue. Our Outbacks have a 225 tire. In other markets they use a 215 tire. That 10mm is just enough so that the larger tire won't fit in the spare tire well.

That excuse won't work for the Legacy, Impreza or Forester. In fact. up until a year or so ago, all our Foresters had full-size spares. We have one in our '01 Forester, but the new ones don't.

Bob

paisan · April 2007

That excuse won't work for the Legacy, Impreza or Forester. In fact. up until a year or so ago, all our Foresters had full-size spares. We have one in our '01 Forester, but the new ones don't.

However the cost factor should be enough of an excuse, no? Same reason why I don't mind RE92s instead of expensive "performance" tires that I don't want anyway.

-mike

rsholland · April 2007

I would think that streamling production (not having to make and inventory donuts) would also save costs. But even if you're right, the customer gets short-changed here in North America.

Bob

paisan · April 2007

Well I don't know if we are getting short changed, the way I look at it is "Do I want to pay what they pay for a Subaru elsewhere in the world?" the answer is "not really" so keep the spare, heck keep the tires too, and keep selling em to me at a good price.

I'll be putting a full-size spare in my car when I get it, probably a 205 or 215, even though I'll run 225 or 235 widths.

-mike

xwesx · April 2007

As you suggested, Steve, time will tell on this one. But, even though the donut tire is well used (probably lucky it even took you 450 miles!), the AWD system is probably okay - keep an ear out for any unusual sounds or behavior. You should definitely consider replacing the rear differential fluid immediately, though, as I am certain it was given quite a workout.

steveb10 · April 2007

Picked up the two new tires today at the dealer. I explained my concern to the service guy. I said here they are checking the tread depth on the original tires to see if I could get away with putting two new tires on the front, while Subaru supplies a spare that is about 1/2 inch smaller than the stock tire diameter. And this is in the country that equips the cars with BIGGER tires in the fist place. Once the spare wears down in a single use its even smaller....

I drove the car and it seems fine. No funny noises. Xwesx- your suggestion about changing the diff oil is one I had thought of. I don't know much about the viscous coupling unit on the trans though. Is it a separate unit or does it share the same oil as the tranny? I may call the dealer on that one. The service guy seemed sympathetic to my situation, and suggested I write a letter to Subaru about the spare tire thing for all the good that will do me. I guess at least it would serve to document the incident in case something in the drivetrain lets go in the next 10,000 miles or so.

Hell I even bout an expensive Gold Plus warranty when I bought the car. This is my first new car. And I still drive my '87 GL Wagon with 318,000 miles on it with the twin stick tranny that is way more capable off road than the Outback will ever be.

paisan · April 2007

Viscous rear diffy is a sealed unit, there is no serviceable fluid in there. The rear diffy takes regular diffy fluid and doesn't lube the Viscous Limited Slip Part.

-mike

xwesx · April 2007

Without a low range, "off road" with an Outback is fairly light duty. I sure worked my '96 hard though. From pulling stumps to towing loaded trucks up slippery slopes, out of ditches, etc., it performed incredibly well.

The rear differential is likely the one that would have taken the brunt of the load since one tire on the rear was off-sized. The rear differential takes about a quart of oil; the front/center differential's gear oil is shared with the MT (3.7 quarts) and separate from the AT. If you have two differently sized tires on one end, the center differential is the one that will be taking up the slack. At least, that is my understanding of it.

steveb10 · April 2007

Well I drained the differential and it was pretty grey, but left no residue on the pan. The trans oil looks clean on the dipstick. I'll just replace the diff oil with some Lucas 80/90 and move on with life. I think I will write Subaru a letter though if for no other reason to document the whole business.

I don't abuse my cars, but like you, I use them for the intended purpose. The Outback is perfectly fine for most off highway situations like in Death Valley or Saline Valley where high clearance 4X4 is required. You have to know the limits though. We had been in the boonies for 3 days and came out on the Saline Valley Road which for the last few miles consists of old potholed asphalt. That's what did the tire in- bad asphalt and too much speed. I knew better too!

I pushed a fully loaded Chevy 3/4 ton out of the sand in Baja one time with the '87. Just kept ramming until he was out. No harm done to the car. I'd hate to see what the fancy bumper on the Outback would look like after the same treatment.

ateixeira · April 2007

I swapped the donut in my wife's car for a full-size spare and it actually fit the well, but this is a 2002 model, which had smaller tires (215/60R15).

$70 well spent if you ask me.

I had to ride home from the beach on a spare, about 120 miles. Luckily my Forester has a full-size spare, something they dropped for MY06.

Tribeca comes with a donut so I'll be trying to figure out a way to swap that out, too.

I guess you limit the speeds to 50-55 so it doesn't put the same stress on the drivetrain that it would at 75mph. Still, I'd much rather have a real tire on there.

In fact, with a donut, I'd stop and try to plug the flat if possible. :sick:

steveb10 · April 2007

I would have plugged it on the spot, but the sidewall was ripped. I think the 50 mph speed limit may be primarily a safety measure. You certainly can't stop the car as well, and obviously the handling is affected on the donut spate tire.

ateixeira · April 2007

Gotcha. The sidewall on my Miata's tires also ripped, it almost looked like they were cut. Not sure what I ran over.

Had to replace those, too. At least it happened when it was parked at home, and I have 2 cars.

xwesx · April 2007

Not sure what I ran over.

Probably a chipmunk. Its relatives visited justice upon you, my friend. :P

ateixeira · April 2007

First they eat my spark plug wires, now they slash my tires.

cptplt · May 2007

besides riding lower what does this do to the car, is the speedo setup different between and OB and Legacy also?

paisan · May 2007

The speedo is setup for a specific diameter tire, you need to take that into account when changing tire sizes.

-mike

fazeman · July 2007

I own an '06 Legacy 2.5 GT spec B. The only problem I have noticed is the unequal wheel arch height between both sides of the vehicle. While viewing the car from the back on a flat surface (no one in car), I saw that the left side sat slightly lower than the right.

The Subaru dealership measured from top wheel arch to center cap and noted there was a difference of 1/4 inch. The dealership and SOA Field Representative said that nothing could be done about it because the measurement falls within the acceptable tolerance specifications for this model.

From my point of view, that small difference equates to a difference of one inch between the lower body panel and ground. By the naked eye, it's easy to see that the vehicle has a slight list on the left side.

I plan to go to a spring shop to review the situation with them and ask for alternatives like adding a shim.

Looking for some advice. Thanks.

ateixeira · July 2007

Hmm, the springs shouldn't be sagging when they are that new. So I'd ask them to check the shocks to see if their operation is normal.

Do you get a different amount of travel and rebound from one side to the other?

paisan · July 2007

I would ask SOA to replace the struts for you. This isn't rocket science and there are only a few things that can cause it. Springs, Perches, Struts, Strut tops.

-mike

fazeman · July 2007

I agree. My previous new vehicle purchases had no sag and I can't even remember thinking about this issue until I purchased the Legacy. With regard to the shocks, I am going to bypass the dealership for the time being. My experience with the stonewalling Subaru dealership, field representative and customer relations representative has been mind numbing to say the least. I made an appointment with a front end shop so I can get an independent viewpoint and better techincal advise.

There is no amount of travel/rebound that I can feel. I'm just having a great time driving the car. And that's the whole point. I love the look and performance of this car and feel that it deserves to sit tall and proud.

I'll keep you posted and thanks for your time ateixeira.

fazeman · July 2007

Mike,

I received an email from the SOA and it stated in essence, that they are washing their hands of this issue. So long as my vehicle shows that it's within Subaru specifications, there will be no further action taken. Funny thing, they never addressed perches, struts and strut tops. You had to really be there to see what I was up against.

Subaru Legacy/Outback Tire Issues

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