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I was responding to a poster that expected the higher powered Tahoe Hybrid to be a more capable tow vehicle. Instead it is inferior. I have had nearly 5000lbs on my 3500 lb 5x8 utility trailer. I only went the 3 miles from Home Depot. Never got over 30 MPH. Trailers can be deceiving.
We were told that only about 600 are built and on the ground in Arlington, and that is all that will be built for the 2008 model year.
The current inventory can't be sold or delivered until the mechanics at the dealerships have been trained. They said delivery is expected after the training within the first quarter 2008. Our particular dealership's lead mechanic was trained last week. That may be why they got their demo model.
Then, each dealer will only get 4 Hybrids. We have ordered the first one in our city, and are not sure yet if it will be exactly what we want in regards to color, sunroof and DVD.....or if we will just get to choose between the 4 that the dealer gets.
I'm not sure where you are located, but we have been contacting dealers since last November and feel confident that our dealer knows what they are talking about.
I must say I'm really disappointed with how GM has handled this launch. As I mentioned in my original post, they said this vehicle would be released last fall per the slew of commercials I kept hearing on the radio about it. I'm jammed up on a lease I have as I only have 1000 miles left on a Passat whose lease does not expire until November.
He was really pumped about it and said the transition from electric to gas was smooth and quiet. He said the power was great and the electronic dash kept him informed as to what power was being used. He said the engine was extremely quiet. He emailed pictures to me and the front is definitely more aerodynamically designed.
He is a dedicated MOPAR guy, but is excited about the hybrid since it is a collaboration between GM and Chrysler. The Dodge Dakota's are supposed to have the same electric/gas engineering.
We were told delivery will be between now and March 31st. We weren't sure if the delivery was dependent on the mechanics being trained at our particular dealership or if every dealership had to be trained first. Once our dealer finds that out we should have a delivery date.
Being a woman, my big decision is the color! The only colors available are black, steel grey, birch grey, sonoma red and white.
The only options available besides color are the different engines, a sunroof or a DVD player.
And as for the HYBRID decals, we understand that they are on there for the demo models and something that either will NOT come on the purchased model, or at least be something that can be easily removed.
Hopefully these things get rolled out soon!
Toyota 's main supplier (PANASONIC Battery Group) has tried unsucessfully to adapt the same Li-ion used in laptop for vehicles. That did not go well since this thing is fire prone. GM selected different type of Li-on from different Battery suppliers. Several months back, Toyota and Honda said that Li-on was not suitable for Plug-in hybrid applications. Then in last month, Toyota changed their tune and announced that they will introduce Plug-in hybrid using Li-ion battery. A lot of new developments on Li-ion battery technology. Even Exxon Mobil Chemical group announced recently they has developed a new barrier material that could prevent fire or heat runaway condition in Li-on battery
So stay tuned
jt
Tesla uses Li-ion battery packs (Sanyo) with special cooling system to insure batteries do not over heat and builts in a highly rigid protective casing over the Li-ion batteries to insure no breaches occur in their cells.
Tesla guarantees 100,000 mile operation on their Li-ion Batteries and the vehicle can travel 200 miles on single charge. This means 500 fully charge and discharge cycles. 500cycles x 200miles= 100000miles. Though the battery does not fail after 100K miles, it will start loosing it's performance (voltage and charge). Although, they have the ability implement some tricks or work arounds to extend the life and performance of the battery (patents).
Li-ion for now seems to be the choice of auto battery for Hybrids or all electric cars in the near term future. Li-Polymer is another type of battery that could become a big player in autos if they can bring the costs down and have factories start to ship these in volume. Plus Li-polymer are safer.
Glad to see GM, Toyota, Honda and others are moving towards a more higher performance batteries for their Hybrids or electric car. I'll be staying tuned.
19.3 mpg combined in a 2WD TaHybrid. Chevy advertises what, 21-22? For real-world driving that might be a highly inflated number. And the 4WD version will likely be 1mpg worse combined. 18mpg is nothing to write home about.
They go on about what amazing thing has been accomplished here, and how the savings add up for larger hybrids, but it appears that the larger the hybrid, the less likely you are to recoup your losses.
I am still awaiting for that concept plug-in all electric large SUV that can go 100MPG with a small diesel engine. So who's going to be first??
If you believe this unsigned, Detroit-originated propaganda, then how come the highly respected Edmunds.com equivalent vehicle only demonstrated 19.3 mpg overall for several thousand test miles? Per the new Edmunds video "2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid Followup Test" most of these miles were highway miles where GM claims 21-22 mpg. Is the Edmunds evaluation team credible? You bet! FYI, Edmunds.com won OVER HALF of the total awards for Automotive Web Sites for complete and accurate tests and reporting of automotive vehicles. The actual test results are less than either the city or highway mileage estimates published by GM. The mileage should fall somewhere between the two.
Edmunds' reports over the past three years have also indicated that GM's claims for mileage are well in excess of actual delivered performance on the road. (Example, the gas-powered Chevy Silverado advertises 15/21 city highway, but only delivered 14.7 mpg overall in actual tests by Edmunds.)
The extra cost for the Tahoe Hybrid is $9,000 (but is reduced to $6,900 after the IRS rebate). Approximately $450 yearly fuel cost savings is predicted over an equivalent non-hybrid Tahoe. After taxes, the real extra cost is $7,620, and the predicted break-even point over time is 17 years! The hybrid version is considerably more complex; hence, reliability factors and normal vehicle service life indicate one will NEVER recoup the extra cost for the hybrid. But you can claim you are "going green." There are no less than NINE badges on the vehicle screaming HYBRID. Whoo...hooo!
OOPS! Don't forget the extra impact on global warning to produce the batteries, the two electric motors, and the more complex drive train required for the hybrid relative over the standard Tahoe system, to say nothing about the recycling of these extra parts. What a deal!
One correction that is critical to your comments direction...
GM does not perform the testing for the mileage numbers on the sticker (the same number they use in advertisements and other published numbers). The EPA performs those tests. Those ratings can not be changed by the manufactures. Many (like Toyota) have wanted to be able to change the numbers or wanted to publish more realistic numbers along side the EPA numbers. The EPA refused to allow this. The manufactures take a real beating over those numbers. They want them to be realistic. It was not only consumers, but the manufactures, that had a hand in the EPA changing the way mileage ratings are calculated for all 2008 and up vehicles to reflect a testing style that was more real-world with an outcome of more realistic mpg ratings.
Manufactures do use the EPA numbers in their literature and advertisements (in a way, they are between a rock and a hard place there because if they used their own numbers, it woud confuse people on why they differ from the EPA ratings, etc.)
So let's stop blaming the manufactures for the sticker or published mpg numbers. If you want to rake someone over the coals on this particular subject, you'll need to direct it to the EPA.
I think most people realize the EPA mpg ratings (even the new 2008 ratings) are acquired during a controlled set of operating procedures and real-world numbers will be less. People usually don't drive with mileage in mind (note the number of peoople that pass you going 80 mph, don't time stoplights when possible, jackrabbit start, etc.) If they did, they would probably get a lot closer to the EPA ratings. Even under the old system, I usually got pretty close to the EPA ratings when I drove with mileage in mind. That never used to be very often, but these days, it's more and more, and it's amazing what kind of mileage ratings one can get with a change in driving style. (I'm getting 17city and 21 hwy with my '03 Avalanche which was rated at 15/18 on the sticker. I'm driving at elevation, which improves mileage, but even when I lived at sea level, I was getting 16/19 when driven with mileage in mind. Probably 14/17 when driven without mileage in mind).
What's the break-even time of a set of 22" chrome spinners? How about a satellite radio system? OnStar? Leather seats? Third row seat? Power Liftgate? Heated mirrors?
All those are merely "options" just like a hybrid option. And none of them EVER pay the buyer ONE PENNY back.
At least with the hybrid option, you are keeping gas dollars in your pocket and you HAVE a "break-even" point to look forward to.
I think you are missing the point of this hybrid. It is not only about saving money. Actually, no current hybrid is about saving money. At this point, you don't buy a hybrid as a strictly economical choice. If you are only concerned about payback, a hybrid isn't for you. They do, however, use way less gasoline than an equivalent non-hybrid, which is beneficial in so many ways. Plus, the current hybrids are stepping stones in bringing down cost, improving technology, and improving mileage even more. Maybe at some point, there will be a shorter payback and that train of thought will have it's place. It should continue to happen as technology improves and as gas prices continue to rise.
You also seem to complain about the minimal mpg improvement. What most people don't consider is that from a percentage improvement, it is on par with the hybrid cars. On a vehicle that only gets 16mpg on average, and bumping that to 19mpg on average, you jumped almost 19%. For comparisons sake, a non-hybrid that gets 32mpg would have to jump to a little over 38mpg. (and, per both the EPA sticker ratings and edmunds real-world tests, the mileage improvements for the Tahoe hybrid are actually more than 19% improvement)
Even more telling is how many gallons of gas one would save in a year.
Even based on only 15,000 miles a year (many drive much more):
16mpg = 937 gallons
19mpg = 789 gallons
Saved 148 gallons/year with a 19% improvement.
32mpg= 469 gallons
38mpg= 395 gallons
Saved 74 gallons/year with a 19% improvement.
So the 19% improvement in mileage avoided the use of 148 gallons when done on a poor mileage vehicle and the 19% improvement in mileage saved 74 gallons when done on a good mileage vehicle. So this goes back to a point many people have mentioned (but people seem to forget). We should be focusing hybrid technology on the worst of the worst gas guzzlers rather than the best of the best. There is more benefit. More gallons of gas saved per mile driven.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ncal_id=2118464&car_id=238513807&dealer_id- =55735047&car_year=2008&model=YUKON&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=20- 08&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=ne- w&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=GMC&first_record=76&keyw- ords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&def- ault_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=89523&- advanced=&end_year=2008&pager.offset=75&doors=&transmission=&car_year=2008&max_p- rice=&cardist=500
Looking right now, I will try to lock in on something sometime in March. I am looking at the Yukon Hybrid but chances are slim with this one. The new Sequioa and the Q7 are tops on my list.
Yea there are dealers that are selling Yukons at the starting selling price of MSRP. But there other dealers that are price gouging. Here's another Yukon Hybrid for about 60K.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ncal_id=1974936&car_id=238818089&dealer_id- =606776&car_year=2008&num_records=25&model=YUKON&systime=&make2=&start_year=2008- &engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&awsp=false&searc- h_type=new&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=GMC&color=&keyw- ords_display=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_so- rt=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=89523&advance- d=&end_year=2008&transmission=&doors=&car_year=2008&max_price=&cardist=500
I am Still considering a Yukon Hybrid but for leasing. The banks just released thier numbers for residual values on a lease for a Yukon/hybrids. After 36 months @15k miles a year the residuals are at about 47% of MSRP. Thats pretty lousy.
Audi Q7 lease for residual is 51% of MSRP with a very low money factor .00060 and with Audi capital reduction of MSRP adds up to great lease.
Does anyone know yet if they all have the big HYBRID sticker along the bottom of the doors?
Apparently they do. However I have talked to the dealer (have a Tahoe hybrid on order that should arrive any day) and have told him that I want those stickers removed. They have told me more than once that that will not be a problem, so you should be able to have them do that for you if you wish.
I don't know why GM has to do that. There's something to be said for being "subtle".
The 2WD with sunroof and DVD player was $53K...exactly what we priced it out as on the GM website.
You can't hear the engine running and don't notice any shift from electric to gasoline. It handles beautifully!
It has 9 badges or hybrid stickers on it. After we drive it a bit we may decide to take off the window Hybrid stickers or the long one on the doors. But, for now we plan to leave them on.
I'm quite anxious to get this thing. I'm going to have the stickers removed right away...I don't mind the other badging.
We actually started talking to our dealer in early December and they placed the order at the end of January. So, it took about 4 weeks for delivery.
We love it! The shift from electric to gasoline is not noticeable at all. And, it seems to handle a bit easier than my prior 2004 Yukon.
I would love to hear if anyone else has received theirs yet?
On another note, it looks like most people are paying at or close to sticker, no? I hope so...then I don't feel so bad. :confuse:
We were told by our dealer that we had the first Yukon Hybrid sold. But, we weren't sure if it was nationwide or just in our region. Our Chevy dealer hasn't even received a demo model yet for the Tahoe.
And, I was pleased that my dealer gave me sticker price and not add a premium due to limited availability.
Good luck on getting yours!
Let me know what you think!
Given that I'm going from a Passat to this Tahoe, it has taken some getting used to driving this beast. Upon taking delivery I had the dealer take off the "Hybrid" stickers that ran across the bottom of both doors as well as the stickers on the front and rear windows. I think that gives it a much cleaner look and really highlights the body style of the truck.
As far as how it rides, it is very comfortable. Being the first hybrid I've ever driven, I can only tell when I'm in hybrid mode and when the engine is running due to the sound, because it sort of feels like you're driving an electric golf car when you're in hybrid mode. Very quiet but a little "whirr" as the hybrid kicks in. The transition from hybrid to gas and back to hybrid is imperceptible. Also, at higher speeds, the transition from V4 to V8 as you are speeding along is totally smooth.
My very early results have yielded about 18mpg driving in and around the Chicago area, which gives me a good mix of expressway and city driving. I think the mileage will improve a bit once the weather warms up here because the Tahoe seems to need to warm up (i.e. oil and such) before it will start using the hybrid mode; hybrid kicks in a lot quicker when I drive the Tahoe from my heated garage vs. after it has been sitting outside.
The interior of the Tahoe is a lot better than what I was expecting. My aversion to buying American cars has always been the 'cheap' feel of the interior but Chevy did a nice job on this one. The seats are comfortable, the instrument panel is easy to read and uncluttered. Heat/air and radio controls are logical. The rear seats directly behind the driver are very roomy, but the third row of seats are basically useless if you ask me since there is zero legroom back there. I'm just taking those seats out for additional storage in the back. My wife has an Acura MDX from last year and that has a lot more bells & whistles than the Tahoe does inside. Stuff like pre-programmed seat positions, handsfree phone use. Also, I was surprised that the Tahoe lacks a six-disc CD changer, which the dealer said was due to space constraints from the navigation system. Somehow, other cars w/ navigation have been able to overcome this.
All-in-all, I'm very happy with the purchase and will update the board with any other things I like or don't like about it.
What do you think of your GM hybrid?
PS
My Sequoia does not have a CD changer available either because of the NAV. Seems strange.
I am up to 20.7 MPG at about 1200 miles.
The handling is very nice. Easy to steer around and while it is most certainly a beast, it is nimble enough to get around tight traffic when need be. Acceleration from a dead stop is okay, not fantastic, and torque at higher speeds when I'm passing is also adequate, not great. I think the acceleration from a stop is better than conventional gas because the electric is ready to go right away (i.e. no need to wait for the engine to kick down to really get going).
Interior is comfortable and all the controls are intuitive. There is something to be said for simplicity, and I appreciate that the Tahoe hybrid has enough of the bells and whistles while still making it easy to figure out how to use them. My wife has an Acura MDX, and while I would not put another vehicle up against it in terms of gadgets and interior control features, sometimes you need to be a rocket scientist to figure out how to use them. Back seats are also comfortable, but I've basically taken the third row of seats out because they simply do not look practical to haul around full-sized adults.
I have two minor criticisms of the truck. The first is that it sometimes feels like the Tahoe is indecisive as to whether to use gas, electric, or both when starting from a dead-stop. There is a slight hesitation as it "figures out" which way to go depending on how hard I step on the gas. I tend not to floor it from the get-go, nor do I accelerate very gradually up to the speed I want, so maybe it's my driving style that is "confusing" the Tahoe. I must also mention that I've never driven a hybrid before this one so I don't know if this is part and parcel for hybrids in general. Still, it's a hesitation that is noticeable to me and gets annoying at times.
The other criticism of the Tahoe is a real basic one - the doors seem to have a hard time latching without really slamming the door, particularly for the tailgate. I can't count how many times I've closed the tailgate fairly hard only to get into the truck and get a warning that it was still ajar. I've also experienced this with the passenger doors but to a lesser extent. This is the type of thing that tends to get under my skin the most since it's a pretty basic aspect of any vehicle. I also must say that I miss having an automatic tailgate closer - that would seem to be a standard feature on a truck of this price.
I'm still taking notes of things I like/don't like about the Tahoe Hybrid so I'l keep posting my thoughts here. As of now, I'd give it a solid A-.
The hesitation was also an annoyance for me. When you would slow down to go around a corner the engine would shut down. When you hit the gas to accelerate it would come on after a second or so. It was especially bad on slick streets during a rain.
GM has lightened their truck type vehicles too much IMO to save on gas. They are now tinny feeling. That is very noticeable when you are waxing the top and it dents in with little to no pressure. Hope you do enjoy your Tahoe. You are saving about 25% more fuel than I am with equal room and comfort.
...a bad joke compared to Two-Mode.
It had one tiny motor that couldn't even contribute to vehicle propulsion. All it offered was a quick start, which isn't actually enough to deserve the label of "hybrid".
I will be surprised if any manufacturer including Toyota ever offers a full hybrid PU. Just not practical for hard towing.
in today's world of wacky MSRP and considering the economy, I can not fantom what your re-sale value will be once these vehicles begin piling up on the lots.
by next year MSRP buyers of this vehicle will probably be looking at a $10k depreciation minimum.
you're brave to be buying anything un proven from GM.
How much of the extra cost is the batteries, and how much is GM?